Given the fantastic production for the free agents, the Joe Judge hire, and the team improving with meaningful games in December, I say yes. Deserving or not, I think he definitely bought himself another year.
because 2018 and we suck and we haven't beaten any teams worth a wet shit and the trade up for Baker.
Except, there is this very simple question:
Have the Giants fixed their defense?
Have the Giants fixed or appeared to have fixed their OL?
Have the Giants found their starting QB of the present and future?
Yes there are holes, surprise, every team has holes but with good space going forward and even more space in 2022, the holes will be filled.
Yes there have been misses in the draft. Surprise again, everyone misses in the draft but DG has a pretty good batting avg the last few years in the draft, even with the Baker fiasco.
IT comes down to Jones, just like most teams need their QB to be consistent. If Jones ends this season on this same winning note, let's say he's back in 2 weeks and finds a way to win 2 games and keep the mistakes down, he's going to be considered a good option going forward.
The team is light years ahead of where they were in 2017--wins and losses be damned. The D is without question solid and not aging at all. The OL is without question playing its best ball since 2010 and is borderline infantile.
The Giants sure as fuck look to be on the way up. If they were called the Eagles or Cowboys or Texans or titans everyone here would be saying watch out for them next season and beyond.
DG aint going anywhere unless he retires. Some of you will just have to deal with it.
If I were Mara I'd be basing it on what he's exhibited in 3 years of asset allocation and philosophy, and how that's impacted the roster construction.
I still think Judge is making chicken salad out of a poorly assembled roster.
He hired Judge.
I don't think the Giants work that way. I think Judge was hired by a committee of Mara/Tisch/Gettleman, with Mara being the loudest voice.
This is just me reading into it, but I remember Gettleman doing a lot of talking about how Shurmur was an adult. But when they hired Judge, Gettleman referred to himself as support staff. Again, just me reading into it...but I wonder if Gettleman had the same influence in the Judge hiring that he did in the Shurmur hiring.
Speculation, but not wild. At the very least I have to admit I don't know.
RE: I'd be surprised if we learned he was ever in danger
Even if we "learned" that he was, actions speak louder than any lip service we hear from Mara or anyone else.
We don't know what kind of mandate DG was working under in 2018 and we don't know how much pressure Mara was heaping on him this year. All we can go on is how Mara has handled past coaching hires and how he himself said he didn't want to make the same mistake his father made when he cut Simms in early 94.
I also don't even think the Eli thing was a big deal at all but I digress. The Giants sucked with Eli because the team was much worse than this team. Eli would have killed for this OL and defense. He didn't have either one for a decade save for 2016.
Once again this shitty division is skewing perspective
They are one of the 6 worst teams by record and point differential, the offense is bottom 5, and the jury is still out on the multiple top 6 picks he has selected the past 3 years. It seems this upward trend many speak of exists solely based on the ineptitude of the rest of the NFC East, something for which he deserves no credit. I will agree to an increased level of competitiveness this season, but the results are essentially the same, and it seems unwise to judge a GM on some intangible feeling...wins and losses have to matter.
RE: RE: I'd be surprised if we learned he was ever in danger
Even if we "learned" that he was, actions speak louder than any lip service we hear from Mara or anyone else.
We don't know what kind of mandate DG was working under in 2018 and we don't know how much pressure Mara was heaping on him this year. All we can go on is how Mara has handled past coaching hires and how he himself said he didn't want to make the same mistake his father made when he cut Simms in early 94.
I also don't even think the Eli thing was a big deal at all but I digress. The Giants sucked with Eli because the team was much worse than this team. Eli would have killed for this OL and defense. He didn't have either one for a decade save for 2016.
The OL for the first 7 games was historically inept. They might have killed old man Eli.
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.
The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.
And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job
There are meaningful games this December because of what Dallas, Phil and Washington have done this year. Not what Gettleman has.
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
I think those do have value, although some have little to do with DG (like hiring Judge) and others are exactly what a DG was hired to do but has only built, on average, a 4 win team per year.
Who we beat does MATTER. It does. I keep repeating this, because I think we all need to keep hearing this.
The whole year.
Just wait.
The wins against bad teams, the close games against good teams will look better if we finish strong. If we shit the bed, those wins will be outliers. We really have to wait.
RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.
The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.
And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
I do agree the jury is still out on Jones. I am not sold yet. Some are. The rest of the season matters. The injury to Jones is devastating. I could care less about the playoffs. I want these games to evaluate Jones. The games in the beginning of the year are kind of worthless evaluation IMHO. The line was so bad and we installed everything new without the ability to practice or play preseason. I said before the season started, we should judge this team on the last 8 games. I stand by that.
RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.
The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.
And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
And to add on...
An even stronger GM would have started accumulating draft picks via trading his deemed non-core guys and soliciting trade back offers in his first couple of drafts and rebuilt the team from the ground up with an efficient plan towards talent & youth. Fix the roster.
DG was a general spender of draft picks, added aging veterans with declining talent that had to be desperately replaced later on with additional capital. And lacks vision as to positional value.
These were set backs as well.
But if he wins GM of the Year as per the other recent thread
The Jones injury comes at a good time for him. Little expectations to win any of the upcoming games while he is out. And you k ow the Giants are going to be cautious with him, as they should be.
RE: I think he retires after next year. Wants to go off into sunset with
Not the injury itself, of course...but our backup QB situation.
No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?
It feels like we brought in McCoy to help Jones feel comfortable, rather than creating the best competition possible. And now it may hurt us in the middle of a division race.
Not the injury itself, of course...but our backup QB situation.
No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?
It feels like we brought in McCoy to help Jones feel comfortable, rather than creating the best competition possible. And now it may hurt us in the middle of a division race.
Or...with a week full of practice with the first team he comes out and does better than Jones. Maybe he notices the receivers that have been wide open. Jones left some big plays out on the field again. I am curious to see what happens.
I dont understand this notion that good free agent signings are a measure of a great GM.
I'm not denying it's an important part of the job, but isnt a better barometer drafts? Cant BBI or anyone off the street evaluate free agent talent with some degree of success?
In order to have sustained achievement in the NFL, cant we all agree it has to be done via draft? And that my friends, is where DG has been mediocre at best.
RE: I think he retires after next year. Wants to go off into sunset with
a winning team that looks better off than he found it.
DG enjoys free agency and the draft. He won’t be fired but if he is inclined to retire, I still think he waits until after the draft. There is a lull after the draft until training camp for transition.
DG only has 2018 free agency as a black mark against him and he only had 2 months to prepare for it with a pro personnel staff that he didn’t pick. HIs 3 drafts have been decent overall and the 2019 and 2020 free agency periods appear to be solid.
So far, he is 1-1 on picking HCs, and Shurmur was arguably the best available at the time.
I ask that because reading the comments, it seems those saying yes are relying a lot on this year alone and not really considering the first 2.
Those saying no, or not yet, are equating the first 2 years.
Essex makes some good point on this thread.
Depends on what you think of the roster, minus emotion, just pure talent and promising players on the roster when he took over. And who hires the coaches.
It's easy to say Mara hired Shurmur and DG hired Judge. Also easy to say DG hired Shurmur and Mara hired Judge.
IMO, they are hired by committee..
RE: RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job
I do agree the jury is still out on Jones. I am not sold yet. Some are. The rest of the season matters. The injury to Jones is devastating. I could care less about the playoffs. I want these games to evaluate Jones. The games in the beginning of the year are kind of worthless evaluation IMHO. The line was so bad and we installed everything new without the ability to practice or play preseason. I said before the season started, we should judge this team on the last 8 games. I stand by that.
I'm glad you brought this up because it is a salient point - getting Jones more reps down the stretch is crucial to make a final-final decision (in my eyes).
The more times he misses, the more complicated this becomes, especially if his play stays choppy and uneven.
He’s so polarizing that people have dug their heels in so much with regards to DG.
So true. The gloom and doomers have enjoyed the hate-mongering for so long that we can't expect them to give up the pulpit without a fight. Don't expect them to ever admit they were wrong about him.
RE: I think the Jones injury is another mark against Gettleman
No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?
Mahomes and Rodgers would've been an ideal set of backups!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job
I do agree the jury is still out on Jones. I am not sold yet. Some are. The rest of the season matters. The injury to Jones is devastating. I could care less about the playoffs. I want these games to evaluate Jones. The games in the beginning of the year are kind of worthless evaluation IMHO. The line was so bad and we installed everything new without the ability to practice or play preseason. I said before the season started, we should judge this team on the last 8 games. I stand by that.
I'm glad you brought this up because it is a salient point - getting Jones more reps down the stretch is crucial to make a final-final decision (in my eyes).
The more times he misses, the more complicated this becomes, especially if his play stays choppy and uneven.
I ask that because reading the comments, it seems those saying yes are relying a lot on this year alone and not really considering the first 2.
Those saying no, or not yet, are equating the first 2 years.
Essex makes some good point on this thread.
Depends on what you think of the roster, minus emotion, just pure talent and promising players on the roster when he took over. And who hires the coaches.
It's easy to say Mara hired Shurmur and DG hired Judge. Also easy to say DG hired Shurmur and Mara hired Judge.
IMO, they are hired by committee..
Not excluding the first 2 years, but this is a journey. He inherited a fucking mess. If we can't agree on that, we should just stop. From declining and beloved QB, Diva WR, to the state of the roster.
Fucking mess.
If, (please do not discount the IF) at the end of this year I feel like we have 2 young, big and physical lines, A QB for the future and a young head coach that looks promising I am am going to want them to keep him. If the line regresses and DJ loses more games with heartbreaking turnovers I am going gonna be with the people with the pitchforks.
What kind of dumb question is that? Cant you see how much we are trending upward. Cant you see all the free agents he has brought in for this year? I’m not going to waste my time to list them, because if you don’t know, you aren’t very cerebral.
And I don’t want to hear about the past, like Solder or Tate....what has he done for me lately?
A LOT!
Anyone who disagrees is wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion, even a bad one.
A losing record in year 3, coming off a miserable two years after a whiff of a hire with Pat Shurmur and sub-par draft picks. It's not unreasonable to ask if a few good moves can save your job from a ton of terrible ones.
If he goes, he will go on his own terms. He has earned that right.
I think 90% of Giant fans now feel we have a team, coaches, a qb, and we like what we are seeing. Win or lose, they are always competitive...and this without a preseason under a new regime.
DG helped bring this together. What happened years 1-2 are irrelevant. When he came on board, we stunk....now, we are trending upward and finally have a plan being implemented.
DG initiated the Hog Mollie plan on both lines....guess what? He was right!
DG deserves our praise not our disgust. Some here have talked poorly about him because of a few past sins. Everyone makes some bad decisions, even the great Bill Belicheck.
The structural weaknesses in Jones's hamstring, Xmines shoulder, Carter's achilles, and Barkley's knee should have been recognized prior to the draft. How is he still here?
- Do you cut Zeitler, Solder, Tate?
- Do you retain or replace Williams, Tomlinson, Ryan, and Gallman?
- Do you pay the 5th year option on Peppers and Engram, trade, or extend them?
- Do you try and extend Barkley to a team friendly deal and leverage the injury to their benefit?
- Do you try and extend Bradberry and Martinez beyond the 2 years they have left?
This is the most critical offseason since 2005. I think quite literally this offseason determines whether you get a championship out of the Barkley/Jones era or not.
Let me ask the exact same question with this change...
Same answer. Wait until the end 9f year. Is the OL set for the future? How about the DL? QB? If those 5h8ngs look good I think DG will be retained but I think he retires.
- Do you cut Zeitler, Solder, Tate?
- Do you retain or replace Williams, Tomlinson, Ryan, and Gallman?
- Do you pay the 5th year option on Peppers and Engram, trade, or extend them?
- Do you try and extend Barkley to a team friendly deal and leverage the injury to their benefit?
- Do you try and extend Bradberry and Martinez beyond the 2 years they have left?
This is the most critical offseason since 2005. I think quite literally this offseason determines whether you get a championship out of the Barkley/Jones era or not.
I really am fond of Bradberry, but he's 27. So he's getting close to the peak for a corner. I'd probably avoid an extension.
I would shop Barkley now just as a trial balloon. Otherwise, you have to wait to see how his performs in 2012. If he plays great, then you try to trade him with his value - hopefully - at its peak. But that could be a narrow market because a lot of teams operate now as if the RB position is a widget. The bottom line is we can't extend him and need to catch up with the conventional thinking with RBs...
I am very excited by the season Peppers has had. A real good swiss army knife. Definitely worth keeping at the right price - whatever that is... ;) So I likely let Logan walk.
On Dr. Engram and Mr. Hyde, I would consider trading him. A strong case can be made that one of the five best players in this draft is Kyle Pitts. If we have a shot at him, and take him, Engram becomes expendable...
I'm not afraid to let Williams walk and keep Tomlinson. And ride with Williamson, Tomlinson et al.
We need more speed at RB, so I would let Gallman walk. He's just a plodder. There are always solutions at RB...you just have to turn over enough rocks.
I’d probably give DG one more year, and let him finish up what he’s started. And if the Giants aren’t a playoff team next year he’s gone.
If the next crop of players don’t get this team into serious contention, I think the batting average is just way too low.
It’s a huge offseason, he’s got a ton to prove.
I think this is one of the most fair, rationale takes regarding Gettleman on BBI.
If I’d been in charge, both Gettleman and Shurmur would have been gone. But it’s too much plausible deniability when you keeping shifting GMs and coaches out. Personally I think 3 years is enough to judge a GM, but with 2 coaches in 3 years it’s muddy.
If a GM can’t put together a playoff team in 4 years with the number of premium picks and cap space Gettleman was afforded, he’s not cut out for it.
Another huge factor is Judge. The GM supports the coach, I’ve been very pleased with Judge thus far, so I’m not that interested in shaking up the front office.
If Judge & Gettleman work well together, I’m fine with it. I’m not thrilled with the idea of bringing in a GM who hasn’t worked with Judge previously, that doesn’t make sense imo.
^ Agreed. I also wonder if it’s a coincidence the Giants had 2 dog shit UFA classes in 2018 and 2019, and then a home run in 2020 when Judge showed up.
If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.
RE: Let me ask the exact same question with this change...
Lol ok. let’s keep playing fantasy island and why not give the giants 2 more wins this season since they lost 4 that easily could have gone either way and only lost those games because the young qb struggled.
Give me a break. If you can’t see the process being made you’re blind. Forget the record and standings. The team is developing right before our eyes. And again, can we finish the god damned season first before we proclaim the record in bedrock? For fucks sake. You guys have been temperature taking DG and so called this brutally shitty roster all year long but uhh ohhhh the giants are playing better, 4-2 since the 0-5 start, something many of us said they might do, so can we see how things end up? Many if you had the worst nyg roster ever going 2-14 this year. Now what? Save it. Please.
RE: RE: Let me ask the exact same question with this change...
Lol ok. let’s keep playing fantasy island and why not give the giants 2 more wins this season since they lost 4 that easily could have gone either way and only lost those games because the young qb struggled.
Give me a break. If you can’t see the process being made you’re blind. Forget the record and standings. The team is developing right before our eyes. And again, can we finish the god damned season first before we proclaim the record in bedrock? For fucks sake. You guys have been temperature taking DG and so called this brutally shitty roster all year long but uhh ohhhh the giants are playing better, 4-2 since the 0-5 start, something many of us said they might do, so can we see how things end up? Many if you had the worst nyg roster ever going 2-14 this year. Now what? Save it. Please.
The extremes you got thru just to post a few sentences never ceases to amaze me.
My point, that you missed, is DG should be measured on the quality of the roster he builds. Not the poor quality or misfortune of the other 3 divisional foes this season.
If you're reading the tea leaves that began to fall a few weeks ago
^ Agreed. I also wonder if it’s a coincidence the Giants had 2 dog shit UFA classes in 2018 and 2019, and then a home run in 2020 when Judge showed up.
If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.
What is a make or break year? Do we have to go 8-8? 9-7? Playoffs?
^ Agreed. I also wonder if it’s a coincidence the Giants had 2 dog shit UFA classes in 2018 and 2019, and then a home run in 2020 when Judge showed up.
If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.
What is a make or break year? Do we have to go 8-8? 9-7? Playoffs?
Given the takes this year, 7 wins and a bunch of close losses would get him another year.
Except, there is this very simple question:
Have the Giants fixed their defense?
Have the Giants fixed or appeared to have fixed their OL?
Have the Giants found their starting QB of the present and future?
Yes there are holes, surprise, every team has holes but with good space going forward and even more space in 2022, the holes will be filled.
Yes there have been misses in the draft. Surprise again, everyone misses in the draft but DG has a pretty good batting avg the last few years in the draft, even with the Baker fiasco.
IT comes down to Jones, just like most teams need their QB to be consistent. If Jones ends this season on this same winning note, let's say he's back in 2 weeks and finds a way to win 2 games and keep the mistakes down, he's going to be considered a good option going forward.
The team is light years ahead of where they were in 2017--wins and losses be damned. The D is without question solid and not aging at all. The OL is without question playing its best ball since 2010 and is borderline infantile.
The Giants sure as fuck look to be on the way up. If they were called the Eagles or Cowboys or Texans or titans everyone here would be saying watch out for them next season and beyond.
DG aint going anywhere unless he retires. Some of you will just have to deal with it.
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In comment 15061690 Go Terps said:
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If I were Mara I'd be basing it on what he's exhibited in 3 years of asset allocation and philosophy, and how that's impacted the roster construction.
I still think Judge is making chicken salad out of a poorly assembled roster.
He hired Judge.
I don't think the Giants work that way. I think Judge was hired by a committee of Mara/Tisch/Gettleman, with Mara being the loudest voice.
This is just me reading into it, but I remember Gettleman doing a lot of talking about how Shurmur was an adult. But when they hired Judge, Gettleman referred to himself as support staff. Again, just me reading into it...but I wonder if Gettleman had the same influence in the Judge hiring that he did in the Shurmur hiring.
Even if we "learned" that he was, actions speak louder than any lip service we hear from Mara or anyone else.
We don't know what kind of mandate DG was working under in 2018 and we don't know how much pressure Mara was heaping on him this year. All we can go on is how Mara has handled past coaching hires and how he himself said he didn't want to make the same mistake his father made when he cut Simms in early 94.
I also don't even think the Eli thing was a big deal at all but I digress. The Giants sucked with Eli because the team was much worse than this team. Eli would have killed for this OL and defense. He didn't have either one for a decade save for 2016.
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.
Even if we "learned" that he was, actions speak louder than any lip service we hear from Mara or anyone else.
We don't know what kind of mandate DG was working under in 2018 and we don't know how much pressure Mara was heaping on him this year. All we can go on is how Mara has handled past coaching hires and how he himself said he didn't want to make the same mistake his father made when he cut Simms in early 94.
I also don't even think the Eli thing was a big deal at all but I digress. The Giants sucked with Eli because the team was much worse than this team. Eli would have killed for this OL and defense. He didn't have either one for a decade save for 2016.
Agree, they ll never win a championship under a Mara ownership.
Unless you count the 8 they get all ready won. But go ahead, don’t let any silly facts get in the way of your narrative.
Oh, John Mara was owner for 1/4 of those titles
From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.
The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.
And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
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as a GM.
There are meaningful games this December because of what Dallas, Phil and Washington have done this year. Not what Gettleman has.
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
I think those do have value, although some have little to do with DG (like hiring Judge) and others are exactly what a DG was hired to do but has only built, on average, a 4 win team per year.
The whole year.
Just wait.
The wins against bad teams, the close games against good teams will look better if we finish strong. If we shit the bed, those wins will be outliers. We really have to wait.
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??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.
The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.
And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
Quote:
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.
The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.
And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
And to add on...
An even stronger GM would have started accumulating draft picks via trading his deemed non-core guys and soliciting trade back offers in his first couple of drafts and rebuilt the team from the ground up with an efficient plan towards talent & youth. Fix the roster.
DG was a general spender of draft picks, added aging veterans with declining talent that had to be desperately replaced later on with additional capital. And lacks vision as to positional value.
These were set backs as well.
Agreed.
No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?
It feels like we brought in McCoy to help Jones feel comfortable, rather than creating the best competition possible. And now it may hurt us in the middle of a division race.
No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?
It feels like we brought in McCoy to help Jones feel comfortable, rather than creating the best competition possible. And now it may hurt us in the middle of a division race.
I'm not denying it's an important part of the job, but isnt a better barometer drafts? Cant BBI or anyone off the street evaluate free agent talent with some degree of success?
In order to have sustained achievement in the NFL, cant we all agree it has to be done via draft? And that my friends, is where DG has been mediocre at best.
DG enjoys free agency and the draft. He won’t be fired but if he is inclined to retire, I still think he waits until after the draft. There is a lull after the draft until training camp for transition.
DG only has 2018 free agency as a black mark against him and he only had 2 months to prepare for it with a pro personnel staff that he didn’t pick. HIs 3 drafts have been decent overall and the 2019 and 2020 free agency periods appear to be solid.
So far, he is 1-1 on picking HCs, and Shurmur was arguably the best available at the time.
Those saying no, or not yet, are equating the first 2 years.
Essex makes some good point on this thread.
Depends on what you think of the roster, minus emotion, just pure talent and promising players on the roster when he took over. And who hires the coaches.
It's easy to say Mara hired Shurmur and DG hired Judge. Also easy to say DG hired Shurmur and Mara hired Judge.
IMO, they are hired by committee..
I'm glad you brought this up because it is a salient point - getting Jones more reps down the stretch is crucial to make a final-final decision (in my eyes).
The more times he misses, the more complicated this becomes, especially if his play stays choppy and uneven.
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I do agree the jury is still out on Jones. I am not sold yet. Some are. The rest of the season matters. The injury to Jones is devastating. I could care less about the playoffs. I want these games to evaluate Jones. The games in the beginning of the year are kind of worthless evaluation IMHO. The line was so bad and we installed everything new without the ability to practice or play preseason. I said before the season started, we should judge this team on the last 8 games. I stand by that.
I'm glad you brought this up because it is a salient point - getting Jones more reps down the stretch is crucial to make a final-final decision (in my eyes).
The more times he misses, the more complicated this becomes, especially if his play stays choppy and uneven.
Those saying no, or not yet, are equating the first 2 years.
Essex makes some good point on this thread.
Depends on what you think of the roster, minus emotion, just pure talent and promising players on the roster when he took over. And who hires the coaches.
It's easy to say Mara hired Shurmur and DG hired Judge. Also easy to say DG hired Shurmur and Mara hired Judge.
IMO, they are hired by committee..
Fucking mess.
If, (please do not discount the IF) at the end of this year I feel like we have 2 young, big and physical lines, A QB for the future and a young head coach that looks promising I am am going to want them to keep him. If the line regresses and DJ loses more games with heartbreaking turnovers I am going gonna be with the people with the pitchforks.
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What kind of dumb question is that? Cant you see how much we are trending upward. Cant you see all the free agents he has brought in for this year? I’m not going to waste my time to list them, because if you don’t know, you aren’t very cerebral.
And I don’t want to hear about the past, like Solder or Tate....what has he done for me lately?
A LOT!
Anyone who disagrees is wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion, even a bad one.
A losing record in year 3, coming off a miserable two years after a whiff of a hire with Pat Shurmur and sub-par draft picks. It's not unreasonable to ask if a few good moves can save your job from a ton of terrible ones.
If he goes, he will go on his own terms. He has earned that right.
I think 90% of Giant fans now feel we have a team, coaches, a qb, and we like what we are seeing. Win or lose, they are always competitive...and this without a preseason under a new regime.
DG helped bring this together. What happened years 1-2 are irrelevant. When he came on board, we stunk....now, we are trending upward and finally have a plan being implemented.
DG initiated the Hog Mollie plan on both lines....guess what? He was right!
DG deserves our praise not our disgust. Some here have talked poorly about him because of a few past sins. Everyone makes some bad decisions, even the great Bill Belicheck.
- Do you cut Zeitler, Solder, Tate?
- Do you retain or replace Williams, Tomlinson, Ryan, and Gallman?
- Do you pay the 5th year option on Peppers and Engram, trade, or extend them?
- Do you try and extend Barkley to a team friendly deal and leverage the injury to their benefit?
- Do you try and extend Bradberry and Martinez beyond the 2 years they have left?
This is the most critical offseason since 2005. I think quite literally this offseason determines whether you get a championship out of the Barkley/Jones era or not.
Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7
Does Gettleman survive this year?
Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7
Does Gettleman survive this year?
- Do you cut Zeitler, Solder, Tate?
- Do you retain or replace Williams, Tomlinson, Ryan, and Gallman?
- Do you pay the 5th year option on Peppers and Engram, trade, or extend them?
- Do you try and extend Barkley to a team friendly deal and leverage the injury to their benefit?
- Do you try and extend Bradberry and Martinez beyond the 2 years they have left?
This is the most critical offseason since 2005. I think quite literally this offseason determines whether you get a championship out of the Barkley/Jones era or not.
I really am fond of Bradberry, but he's 27. So he's getting close to the peak for a corner. I'd probably avoid an extension.
I would shop Barkley now just as a trial balloon. Otherwise, you have to wait to see how his performs in 2012. If he plays great, then you try to trade him with his value - hopefully - at its peak. But that could be a narrow market because a lot of teams operate now as if the RB position is a widget. The bottom line is we can't extend him and need to catch up with the conventional thinking with RBs...
I am very excited by the season Peppers has had. A real good swiss army knife. Definitely worth keeping at the right price - whatever that is... ;) So I likely let Logan walk.
On Dr. Engram and Mr. Hyde, I would consider trading him. A strong case can be made that one of the five best players in this draft is Kyle Pitts. If we have a shot at him, and take him, Engram becomes expendable...
I'm not afraid to let Williams walk and keep Tomlinson. And ride with Williamson, Tomlinson et al.
We need more speed at RB, so I would let Gallman walk. He's just a plodder. There are always solutions at RB...you just have to turn over enough rocks.
If the next crop of players don’t get this team into serious contention, I think the batting average is just way too low.
It’s a huge offseason, he’s got a ton to prove.
If the next crop of players don’t get this team into serious contention, I think the batting average is just way too low.
It’s a huge offseason, he’s got a ton to prove.
I think this is one of the most fair, rationale takes regarding Gettleman on BBI.
Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7
Does Gettleman survive this year?
Wasn’t there another thread where we were told you can’t use “if this”, “if that”?
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I’d probably give DG one more year, and let him finish up what he’s started. And if the Giants aren’t a playoff team next year he’s gone.
If the next crop of players don’t get this team into serious contention, I think the batting average is just way too low.
It’s a huge offseason, he’s got a ton to prove.
I think this is one of the most fair, rationale takes regarding Gettleman on BBI.
If I’d been in charge, both Gettleman and Shurmur would have been gone. But it’s too much plausible deniability when you keeping shifting GMs and coaches out. Personally I think 3 years is enough to judge a GM, but with 2 coaches in 3 years it’s muddy.
If a GM can’t put together a playoff team in 4 years with the number of premium picks and cap space Gettleman was afforded, he’s not cut out for it.
If Judge & Gettleman work well together, I’m fine with it. I’m not thrilled with the idea of bringing in a GM who hasn’t worked with Judge previously, that doesn’t make sense imo.
If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.
Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7
Does Gettleman survive this year?
Lol ok. let’s keep playing fantasy island and why not give the giants 2 more wins this season since they lost 4 that easily could have gone either way and only lost those games because the young qb struggled.
Give me a break. If you can’t see the process being made you’re blind. Forget the record and standings. The team is developing right before our eyes. And again, can we finish the god damned season first before we proclaim the record in bedrock? For fucks sake. You guys have been temperature taking DG and so called this brutally shitty roster all year long but uhh ohhhh the giants are playing better, 4-2 since the 0-5 start, something many of us said they might do, so can we see how things end up? Many if you had the worst nyg roster ever going 2-14 this year. Now what? Save it. Please.
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This is what the NFC East looks like instead:
Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7
Does Gettleman survive this year?
Lol ok. let’s keep playing fantasy island and why not give the giants 2 more wins this season since they lost 4 that easily could have gone either way and only lost those games because the young qb struggled.
Give me a break. If you can’t see the process being made you’re blind. Forget the record and standings. The team is developing right before our eyes. And again, can we finish the god damned season first before we proclaim the record in bedrock? For fucks sake. You guys have been temperature taking DG and so called this brutally shitty roster all year long but uhh ohhhh the giants are playing better, 4-2 since the 0-5 start, something many of us said they might do, so can we see how things end up? Many if you had the worst nyg roster ever going 2-14 this year. Now what? Save it. Please.
The extremes you got thru just to post a few sentences never ceases to amaze me.
My point, that you missed, is DG should be measured on the quality of the roster he builds. Not the poor quality or misfortune of the other 3 divisional foes this season.
If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.
What is a make or break year? Do we have to go 8-8? 9-7? Playoffs?
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^ Agreed. I also wonder if it’s a coincidence the Giants had 2 dog shit UFA classes in 2018 and 2019, and then a home run in 2020 when Judge showed up.
If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.
What is a make or break year? Do we have to go 8-8? 9-7? Playoffs?
Given the takes this year, 7 wins and a bunch of close losses would get him another year.