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Gun to your head, does Gettleman survive this year?

alsoknownaskaz : 11/30/2020 2:14 pm
Given the fantastic production for the free agents, the Joe Judge hire, and the team improving with meaningful games in December, I say yes. Deserving or not, I think he definitely bought himself another year.
Yes, there seems to be a great connection with this coaching staff  
robbieballs2003 : 11/30/2020 2:15 pm : link
and Gettleman.
I think he retires...  
Chris in Philly : 11/30/2020 2:16 pm : link
Regardless of what happens.
Agree with Chris.  
Big Blue '56 : 11/30/2020 2:17 pm : link
He’s gonna hang them up.
I would bet...  
Johnny5 : 11/30/2020 2:17 pm : link
... he is back for next year
I have a feeling  
Bones : 11/30/2020 2:18 pm : link
He will retire as well.
RE: I think he retires...  
alsoknownaskaz : 11/30/2020 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15061514 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Regardless of what happens.


Interesting, I haven't heard this take before. Why do you think that?
5-11 and 7-9  
Metnut : 11/30/2020 2:19 pm : link
are both plausible outcomes at this point. Can’t say 5-11 in year 3 being good enough for Gettleman to keep his job. Especially if the wins are WSH 2X, PHI, CIN and DAL.

7 wins? Maybe. Would be enough there for me to see some clear positive momentum and convince me to give him another draft and run at UFA with a lot of cap space.
Yes he survives  
5BowlsSoon : 11/30/2020 2:19 pm : link
What kind of dumb question is that? Cant you see how much we are trending upward. Cant you see all the free agents he has brought in for this year? I’m not going to waste my time to list them, because if you don’t know, you aren’t very cerebral.

And I don’t want to hear about the past, like Solder or Tate....what has he done for me lately?

A LOT!

Anyone who disagrees is wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion, even a bad one.
.  
Danny Kanell : 11/30/2020 2:20 pm : link
He definitely bought himself another year and I disagree that he will retire. I think he comes back.
RE: Yes he survives  
alsoknownaskaz : 11/30/2020 2:22 pm : link
In comment 15061528 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
What kind of dumb question is that? Cant you see how much we are trending upward. Cant you see all the free agents he has brought in for this year? I’m not going to waste my time to list them, because if you don’t know, you aren’t very cerebral.

And I don’t want to hear about the past, like Solder or Tate....what has he done for me lately?

A LOT!

Anyone who disagrees is wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion, even a bad one.


A losing record in year 3, coming off a miserable two years after a whiff of a hire with Pat Shurmur and sub-par draft picks. It's not unreasonable to ask if a few good moves can save your job from a ton of terrible ones.
I think he should.  
mattlawson : 11/30/2020 2:22 pm : link
team is getting better. players are better. coaches are better.
I think he retires too.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/30/2020 2:23 pm : link
But who knows? I don't know the dude.
He comes  
Giants : 11/30/2020 2:24 pm : link
back
A travesty if he returns...  
Skittlebish : 11/30/2020 2:24 pm : link
We are still currently a bottom tier team, and in a normal year this season, like all others under his regime, would be long over.
This is the first I've heard of him retiring  
BlackLight : 11/30/2020 2:26 pm : link
Not saying it'd be the worst idea. Just that retirement seems like the 4th most likely option after him getting fired, him keep his job, and a deranged fan shooting him.
RE: Yes, there seems to be a great connection with this coaching staff  
BelieveJJ : 11/30/2020 2:26 pm : link
In comment 15061512 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
and Gettleman.


+1

Frankly, as goofy as the move to TRADE FOR Leonard Williams appears to have been, given the lack of any contract extension, it's been obvious JJ and PG are absolutely in tune with the scheme and philosophy and reality of having a dominant big 3 plus "interior" DL as a featured part of their "base D" - as much as it can be defined. BJ Hill seems to be coming on in his role as #4, too.

Not to mention the ascension of Gates and Lemieux. JJ wants his team to be, might I suggest first and foremost, bullies at the LOS.

Contrary to what many see as the current Vogue in the NFL.

The Arizona game upcoming might be a benchmark test of theoretical football opposites.

Long winded way to say no way DG will be canned at the end of this year if the team stays on course.
I Agree He Retires  
Trainmaster : 11/30/2020 2:27 pm : link
IF the Giants go 6 - 10, make the playoffs with the "arrow pointing up", a good time to "ride off into the sunset".

He won't be removed...which is what survive implies  
George from PA : 11/30/2020 2:27 pm : link
But he might retire
Yes, I think he's earned it after  
Simms11 : 11/30/2020 2:28 pm : link
last draft and FA periods. I think he'll want to finish what he started as well.
He will either stay  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/30/2020 2:29 pm : link
or retire (his choice). He will not be forced out. So I think he 'survives'.

I think he stays one more year.
Depends on if he wants it.  
Giant John : 11/30/2020 2:29 pm : link
I think it will be offered to him.
Average GM at Best  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 11/30/2020 2:29 pm : link
Lots of misses and some hits. I hope we move on.
He retires  
BLUATHRT : 11/30/2020 2:30 pm : link
I think he will feel that he left the team in better position than where he found it. He understands he isn't going to be doing this long-terms so steps aside so a GM that will be here to build long-term with Judge can step in.
I won't be bothered at all if he sticks.  
Beezer : 11/30/2020 2:30 pm : link

But I agree with those saying they think he'll retire.
I suspect he’ll come back unless he retires  
mfsd : 11/30/2020 2:30 pm : link
I know the chatter has been they’re grooming Abrams to replace him, and by all accounts Abrams has been very valuable as our capologist, but I don’t see them turning the keys over to Abrams outright yet.

The other route is to bring in a new GM with a good relationship with Judge. Doesn’t have to be the proverbial “Judge picks his GM”, but Judge has a lot of relationships around the league, I’m sure he’d work well wi5 several GMs, especially from the Pats org

I’d prefer someone from the outside...but we all know this org is less likely to turn too much power over to a Judge/new GM power share

Interesting transition coming soon with DG, whether this year or next year.
RE: I think he retires...  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/30/2020 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15061514 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Regardless of what happens.
agree .. and he fixed the OL
I think 50% he retires  
JCin332 : 11/30/2020 2:32 pm : link
but 100% he is back if he chooses and deservedly so...
I think Mara  
Enzo : 11/30/2020 2:33 pm : link
keeps him. At the end of the day, Mara is simply in over his head as an NFL owner.
Survive?  
mittenedman : 11/30/2020 2:34 pm : link
*Jones looks to be growing up.

*He has a 5-man OL in place.

*His D is a top 10 unit.

Everyone in the league seems to be acknowledging that the Giants are on the upswing. And we're going to can our GM under these circumstance? Holy hell.
Gettleman is an interesting case study..  
Sean : 11/30/2020 2:36 pm : link
He’s so polarizing that people have dug their heels in so much with regards to DG.

The decisions in 2018 were poor, but I’d bet they were organizational. Eli was a significant cloud over the franchise.

But looking at the return of the Beckham trade, his FA crop this past year & the approved OL, he deserves credit. Not to mention Jones who has looked better in recent weeks.

Biggest thing for me, how does he work with Judge?
I'd be surprised if we learned he was ever in danger  
Go Terps : 11/30/2020 2:41 pm : link
.
I think he retires after next year. Wants to go off into sunset with  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/30/2020 2:42 pm : link
a winning team that looks better off than he found it.
RE: I'd be surprised if we learned he was ever in danger  
Danny Kanell : 11/30/2020 2:43 pm : link
In comment 15061604 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


I know what you're saying but I think he was when Thomas was really struggling. If Thomas didn't improve, that would have gotten him fired imo.
Yes  
moespree : 11/30/2020 2:44 pm : link
But maybe he retires on his own. I wouldn't discount that possibility. But if not, then yes, I think Mara will keep him.
Gun to my head  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 2:45 pm : link
He stays.

This is not what I think should or shouldn't happen. I refuse to weigh in on that until the ENTIRE year is in the books. I am predicting what I "think" will happen.
Let me try this another way  
mittenedman : 11/30/2020 2:45 pm : link
Why does he deserve to be fired?
Right now yes  
arniefez : 11/30/2020 2:46 pm : link
5 games from now? Highly likely but not 100%.
Unfortunately no  
pjcas18 : 11/30/2020 2:46 pm : link
with a gun to my head I think Gettleman perishes on 12/31 around 11:58 PM, just shy of surviving the year.
He survives  
AnnapolisMike : 11/30/2020 2:47 pm : link
Retires and Abrams steps up
Actually Sources Say  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/30/2020 2:48 pm : link
Dave packs up his Colecovision and goes home
RE: A travesty if he returns...  
Bruner4329 : 11/30/2020 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15061548 Skittlebish said:
Quote:
We are still currently a bottom tier team, and in a normal year this season, like all others under his regime, would be long over.


There is a difference between being a bottom tier team on the upswing versus a bottom tier team with no immediate hope. Just look across town. Honestly other than the SF game we have competed in every game. Sure we have only beaten bad teams but we were not that far away from beating the Rams and Bears and should have beaten the Cowboys and Eagles the first time not to mention a 2 point conversion from pushing TB into overtime. We are trending upward and although DG has made some questionable moves he has also made some smart moves. Looking back passing on a QB for Barkley does not look as bad. Other than maybe Allen which QBs have looked any good? Not Darnold, Rosen and even Mayfield has been so so. And BTW that Leonard Williams deal does not look as stupid anymore Playing his best ball and looks like a beast right now.
5 weeks ago, no way  
Matt M. : 11/30/2020 2:50 pm : link
Now, it is looking more and more like yes.
if he wants to he should.  
Victor in CT : 11/30/2020 2:50 pm : link
another possibility is he reduces his role giving Judge more control but doing the organizing for him.
Yes, he survives. Given  
Les in TO : 11/30/2020 2:51 pm : link
The step change this year in the team’s competitiveness and the fact they are in the playoff hunt in December despite the Barkley injury, combined with Mara’s bias for stability at the GM level he will get another year.
RE: I'd be surprised if we learned he was ever in danger  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 2:52 pm : link
In comment 15061604 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
He certainly is in danger. It was always going to be about this year. We are in first place. I know full well the circumstance. Let's see what the team does the next 5 games. It is very far fetched, but there remains the possibility we win a playoff game. We might shit the bed and pick in the top 6. Let's watch football games and weigh in after. These games do matter
We are a below average team...  
bw in dc : 11/30/2020 2:53 pm : link
beating other below average teams and bad teams. Plus, we can't beat teams with winning records. And we play in the worst division - probably - in NFL history.

So it's strange doling out credit for anybody other than this new coaching staff. They are the story, not Gentleman.

My guess is DG stays if we "win" the division. Mara will say the team has met his definition of improvement. So DG will want to ride this out to further enhance his resume. Which we know is extremely important to him and his legacy...
I think he does but don't think he should.  
BrettNYG10 : 11/30/2020 2:55 pm : link
.
Some have asked why a few of us believe he’ll retire.  
Big Blue '56 : 11/30/2020 2:56 pm : link
For me, I think it’s about health. From what we hear he’s in remission, but there’s always that compromised immune system possibility. I can see him contributing on a part-time, advisory basis..Only he and his family fully know where he is right now..
DG  
Simms : 11/30/2020 2:58 pm : link
I wish him well and hope his health is improving.

It would not shock me to see him stay, or leave if there is a possible uptic giving him an avenue doing something else, less stressful.

As others have noted Judge's impact the rest of the way will weight into this to some degree.
RE: Some have asked why a few of us believe he’ll retire.  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 3:01 pm : link
In comment 15061660 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
For me, I think it’s about health. From what we hear he’s in remission, but there’s always that compromised immune system possibility. I can see him contributing on a part-time, advisory basis..Only he and his family fully know where he is right now..
I agree. I do think there is a STRONG possibility he retires. I think the possibility of this increases the better we do through he rest of the year. I think this a a VERY loyal man with STRONG ties to the franchise. I genuinely believe he would retire and spend more time with family if he felt he put us on the path. IE Coach, QB and cores of both lines in place. That all could be true by season's end.
I would say No.  
prdave73 : 11/30/2020 3:02 pm : link
This team needs a new GM, time to move on.
Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
LBH15 : 11/30/2020 3:05 pm : link
as a GM.

There are meaningful games this December because of what Dallas, Phil and Washington have done this year. Not what Gettleman has.
RE: I think he retires after next year. Wants to go off into sunset with  
NorthCountryGiantsFan : 11/30/2020 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15061608 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
a winning team that looks better off than he found it.


This....I agree 100%....I couldn't walk away so close to the finished project...I think he stays on another year
RE: I think he retires...  
UConn4523 : 11/30/2020 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15061514 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Regardless of what happens.


Same
I think whether he survives shouldn't be based on the record  
Go Terps : 11/30/2020 3:10 pm : link
If I were Mara I'd be basing it on what he's exhibited in 3 years of asset allocation and philosophy, and how that's impacted the roster construction.

I still think Judge is making chicken salad out of a poorly assembled roster.
RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 3:10 pm : link
In comment 15061679 LBH15 said:
Quote:
as a GM.

There are meaningful games this December because of what Dallas, Phil and Washington have done this year. Not what Gettleman has.
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.
RE: I think whether he survives shouldn't be based on the record  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 3:11 pm : link
In comment 15061690 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If I were Mara I'd be basing it on what he's exhibited in 3 years of asset allocation and philosophy, and how that's impacted the roster construction.

I still think Judge is making chicken salad out of a poorly assembled roster.
He hired Judge.
RE: RE: Some have asked why a few of us believe he’ll retire.  
Enzo : 11/30/2020 3:11 pm : link
In comment 15061670 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15061660 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


For me, I think it’s about health. From what we hear he’s in remission, but there’s always that compromised immune system possibility. I can see him contributing on a part-time, advisory basis..Only he and his family fully know where he is right now..

I agree. I do think there is a STRONG possibility he retires. I think the possibility of this increases the better we do through he rest of the year. I think this a a VERY loyal man with STRONG ties to the franchise. I genuinely believe he would retire and spend more time with family if he felt he put us on the path. IE Coach, QB and cores of both lines in place. That all could be true by season's end.

always interesting how so many folks here continue to have a rose colored view of this franchise.
I honestly think the last five weeks of this season matter  
Essex : 11/30/2020 3:13 pm : link
in terms of whether he should. I was really down on him after the SF game to be honest and although I had been a longtime supporter, I thought we needed to move on. I have been encouraged the last few weeks. by a definite improvement in the team. That is not to say we are very good, but it seems that again the draft has been decent (Thomas is improving, McKinney hasn't played but Lemieux and Peart look interesting). I also think he did well with Free Agents such as Bradberry (rockstar signing), Logan Ryan and Blake Martinez. I mean, Mara said his batting average with free agents has to get better and it did. I am not going to touch LW, but at the very least we can all admit he is a good player.

In the end, though, he made three franchise changing decisions in terms of personnel ((obviously excludes HCs) and that was Daniel Jones, SB, and OBJ .trade. I think we undoubtedly won the OBJ trade and that was as good move. Saquon Barkley was a colossal mistake in terms of positioning and in terms of luck (the injury thing is not DG's fault it does matter with his production and the success of the pick), and I think the book is still out on Jones. In the end, it seems like a middling record and if the team keeps improving, there is no reason why. he should not be permitted to continue. If the team falls apart in the final five weeks, then maybe he shouldn't come back. The record is mixed enough where I think the final five weeks matters for him.
RE: RE: I think whether he survives shouldn't be based on the record  
Go Terps : 11/30/2020 3:17 pm : link
In comment 15061693 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15061690 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If I were Mara I'd be basing it on what he's exhibited in 3 years of asset allocation and philosophy, and how that's impacted the roster construction.

I still think Judge is making chicken salad out of a poorly assembled roster.

He hired Judge.


I don't think the Giants work that way. I think Judge was hired by a committee of Mara/Tisch/Gettleman, with Mara being the loudest voice.

This is just me reading into it, but I remember Gettleman doing a lot of talking about how Shurmur was an adult. But when they hired Judge, Gettleman referred to himself as support staff. Again, just me reading into it...but I wonder if Gettleman had the same influence in the Judge hiring that he did in the Shurmur hiring.
can't ask that question around here  
djm : 11/30/2020 3:21 pm : link
because 2018 and we suck and we haven't beaten any teams worth a wet shit and the trade up for Baker.


Except, there is this very simple question:

Have the Giants fixed their defense?

Have the Giants fixed or appeared to have fixed their OL?

Have the Giants found their starting QB of the present and future?

Yes there are holes, surprise, every team has holes but with good space going forward and even more space in 2022, the holes will be filled.

Yes there have been misses in the draft. Surprise again, everyone misses in the draft but DG has a pretty good batting avg the last few years in the draft, even with the Baker fiasco.

IT comes down to Jones, just like most teams need their QB to be consistent. If Jones ends this season on this same winning note, let's say he's back in 2 weeks and finds a way to win 2 games and keep the mistakes down, he's going to be considered a good option going forward.

The team is light years ahead of where they were in 2017--wins and losses be damned. The D is without question solid and not aging at all. The OL is without question playing its best ball since 2010 and is borderline infantile.

The Giants sure as fuck look to be on the way up. If they were called the Eagles or Cowboys or Texans or titans everyone here would be saying watch out for them next season and beyond.

DG aint going anywhere unless he retires. Some of you will just have to deal with it.
Since you're asking what will happen...  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2020 3:23 pm : link
...and not what I think should happen, I'm sure he'll be allowed to stick around.
RE: RE: RE: I think whether he survives shouldn't be based on the record  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15061703 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15061693 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 15061690 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If I were Mara I'd be basing it on what he's exhibited in 3 years of asset allocation and philosophy, and how that's impacted the roster construction.

I still think Judge is making chicken salad out of a poorly assembled roster.

He hired Judge.



I don't think the Giants work that way. I think Judge was hired by a committee of Mara/Tisch/Gettleman, with Mara being the loudest voice.

This is just me reading into it, but I remember Gettleman doing a lot of talking about how Shurmur was an adult. But when they hired Judge, Gettleman referred to himself as support staff. Again, just me reading into it...but I wonder if Gettleman had the same influence in the Judge hiring that he did in the Shurmur hiring.
Speculation, but not wild. At the very least I have to admit I don't know.
RE: I'd be surprised if we learned he was ever in danger  
djm : 11/30/2020 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15061604 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Even if we "learned" that he was, actions speak louder than any lip service we hear from Mara or anyone else.

We don't know what kind of mandate DG was working under in 2018 and we don't know how much pressure Mara was heaping on him this year. All we can go on is how Mara has handled past coaching hires and how he himself said he didn't want to make the same mistake his father made when he cut Simms in early 94.

I also don't even think the Eli thing was a big deal at all but I digress. The Giants sucked with Eli because the team was much worse than this team. Eli would have killed for this OL and defense. He didn't have either one for a decade save for 2016.
Once again this shitty division is skewing perspective  
Skittlebish : 11/30/2020 3:28 pm : link
They are one of the 6 worst teams by record and point differential, the offense is bottom 5, and the jury is still out on the multiple top 6 picks he has selected the past 3 years. It seems this upward trend many speak of exists solely based on the ineptitude of the rest of the NFC East, something for which he deserves no credit. I will agree to an increased level of competitiveness this season, but the results are essentially the same, and it seems unwise to judge a GM on some intangible feeling...wins and losses have to matter.
RE: RE: I'd be surprised if we learned he was ever in danger  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15061729 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15061604 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



Even if we "learned" that he was, actions speak louder than any lip service we hear from Mara or anyone else.

We don't know what kind of mandate DG was working under in 2018 and we don't know how much pressure Mara was heaping on him this year. All we can go on is how Mara has handled past coaching hires and how he himself said he didn't want to make the same mistake his father made when he cut Simms in early 94.

I also don't even think the Eli thing was a big deal at all but I digress. The Giants sucked with Eli because the team was much worse than this team. Eli would have killed for this OL and defense. He didn't have either one for a decade save for 2016.
The OL for the first 7 games was historically inept. They might have killed old man Eli.
Man  
ajr2456 : 11/30/2020 3:30 pm : link
The bar is low.
RE: I think Mara  
joeinpa : 11/30/2020 3:30 pm : link
In comment 15061575 Enzo said:
Quote:
keeps him. At the end of the day, Mara is simply in over his head as an NFL owner.


Agree, they ll never win a championship under a Mara ownership.

Unless you count the 8 they get all ready won. But go ahead, don’t let any silly facts get in the way of your narrative.

Oh, John Mara was owner for 1/4 of those titles
RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
bw in dc : 11/30/2020 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15061691 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.


From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.

The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.

And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
LBH15 : 11/30/2020 3:32 pm : link
In comment 15061691 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15061679 LBH15 said:


Quote:


as a GM.

There are meaningful games this December because of what Dallas, Phil and Washington have done this year. Not what Gettleman has.

??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.


I think those do have value, although some have little to do with DG (like hiring Judge) and others are exactly what a DG was hired to do but has only built, on average, a 4 win team per year.
context  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 3:32 pm : link
Who we beat does MATTER. It does. I keep repeating this, because I think we all need to keep hearing this.

The whole year.

Just wait.

The wins against bad teams, the close games against good teams will look better if we finish strong. If we shit the bed, those wins will be outliers. We really have to wait.
RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15061746 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15061691 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.



From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.

The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.

And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...
I do agree the jury is still out on Jones. I am not sold yet. Some are. The rest of the season matters. The injury to Jones is devastating. I could care less about the playoffs. I want these games to evaluate Jones. The games in the beginning of the year are kind of worthless evaluation IMHO. The line was so bad and we installed everything new without the ability to practice or play preseason. I said before the season started, we should judge this team on the last 8 games. I stand by that.
RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
LBH15 : 11/30/2020 3:41 pm : link
In comment 15061746 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15061691 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


??? He hired the coach. He drafted our QB. If by the end of Gettleman's third year we have the cores of both lines in place and a franchise QB and an up and coming head coach, considering what he inherited you don't think that has any value? I think NFL ownership would disagree. FWIW I am not giving him that yet, the rest of the year matters.



From all I have gathered, DG gave the thumbs up on Judge, but Mara really finalized the decision this time.

The jury is still out on Jones and you know it. He's played decently of late, but we shouldn't be saying that closes the case on him being the guy.

And while we've covered this real estate a gazillion times, Gettleman was all in on Project Eli. So he went for the quick fix, last hurrah. If he didn't drink the Kool Aid to get the job - because it was clear that's what Mara wanted - a stronger, more influential voice would have told Mara that it's time to cut bait with Eli and build for a new era. That was a significant set back...


And to add on...

An even stronger GM would have started accumulating draft picks via trading his deemed non-core guys and soliciting trade back offers in his first couple of drafts and rebuilt the team from the ground up with an efficient plan towards talent & youth. Fix the roster.

DG was a general spender of draft picks, added aging veterans with declining talent that had to be desperately replaced later on with additional capital. And lacks vision as to positional value.

These were set backs as well.
But if he wins GM of the Year as per the other recent thread  
LBH15 : 11/30/2020 3:43 pm : link
I guess Mara will be forced to extend him.
I bet he survives.  
ron mexico : 11/30/2020 3:49 pm : link
The Jones injury comes at a good time for him. Little expectations to win any of the upcoming games while he is out. And you k ow the Giants are going to be cautious with him, as they should be.
RE: I think he retires after next year. Wants to go off into sunset with  
Alan W : 11/30/2020 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15061608 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
a winning team that looks better off than he found it.


Agreed.
I think the Jones injury is another mark against Gettleman  
Go Terps : 11/30/2020 4:06 pm : link
Not the injury itself, of course...but our backup QB situation.

No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?

It feels like we brought in McCoy to help Jones feel comfortable, rather than creating the best competition possible. And now it may hurt us in the middle of a division race.
He's coming back  
Mondo : 11/30/2020 4:06 pm : link
Bradberry and Logan and some other FAs playing elite are saving his ass.
*had completely fallen  
Go Terps : 11/30/2020 4:06 pm : link
.
RE: I think the Jones injury is another mark against Gettleman  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 15061811 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Not the injury itself, of course...but our backup QB situation.

No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?

It feels like we brought in McCoy to help Jones feel comfortable, rather than creating the best competition possible. And now it may hurt us in the middle of a division race.
Or...with a week full of practice with the first team he comes out and does better than Jones. Maybe he notices the receivers that have been wide open. Jones left some big plays out on the field again. I am curious to see what happens.
I Dont Get it  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 11/30/2020 4:17 pm : link
I dont understand this notion that good free agent signings are a measure of a great GM.

I'm not denying it's an important part of the job, but isnt a better barometer drafts? Cant BBI or anyone off the street evaluate free agent talent with some degree of success?

In order to have sustained achievement in the NFL, cant we all agree it has to be done via draft? And that my friends, is where DG has been mediocre at best.
RE: I think he retires after next year. Wants to go off into sunset with  
Ivan15 : 11/30/2020 4:17 pm : link
In comment 15061608 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
a winning team that looks better off than he found it.


DG enjoys free agency and the draft. He won’t be fired but if he is inclined to retire, I still think he waits until after the draft. There is a lull after the draft until training camp for transition.

DG only has 2018 free agency as a black mark against him and he only had 2 months to prepare for it with a pro personnel staff that he didn’t pick. HIs 3 drafts have been decent overall and the 2019 and 2020 free agency periods appear to be solid.

So far, he is 1-1 on picking HCs, and Shurmur was arguably the best available at the time.
Are we excluding the first 2 years?  
GManinDC : 11/30/2020 4:21 pm : link
I ask that because reading the comments, it seems those saying yes are relying a lot on this year alone and not really considering the first 2.

Those saying no, or not yet, are equating the first 2 years.

Essex makes some good point on this thread.

Depends on what you think of the roster, minus emotion, just pure talent and promising players on the roster when he took over. And who hires the coaches.

It's easy to say Mara hired Shurmur and DG hired Judge. Also easy to say DG hired Shurmur and Mara hired Judge.

IMO, they are hired by committee..
RE: RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
bw in dc : 11/30/2020 4:22 pm : link
In comment 15061758 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
I do agree the jury is still out on Jones. I am not sold yet. Some are. The rest of the season matters. The injury to Jones is devastating. I could care less about the playoffs. I want these games to evaluate Jones. The games in the beginning of the year are kind of worthless evaluation IMHO. The line was so bad and we installed everything new without the ability to practice or play preseason. I said before the season started, we should judge this team on the last 8 games. I stand by that.


I'm glad you brought this up because it is a salient point - getting Jones more reps down the stretch is crucial to make a final-final decision (in my eyes).

The more times he misses, the more complicated this becomes, especially if his play stays choppy and uneven.
RE: Gettleman is an interesting case study..  
Milton : 11/30/2020 4:32 pm : link
In comment 15061585 Sean said:
Quote:
He’s so polarizing that people have dug their heels in so much with regards to DG.
So true. The gloom and doomers have enjoyed the hate-mongering for so long that we can't expect them to give up the pulpit without a fight. Don't expect them to ever admit they were wrong about him.
RE: I think the Jones injury is another mark against Gettleman  
Milton : 11/30/2020 4:51 pm : link
In comment 15061811 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No knock on McCoy, but if utilizing Jones's mobility was going to (rightfully) be part of the offense, why don't we have two backups in place with similar skillsets? And what if Jones has completely fallen on his face this year...why didn't we enter the season better set up at backup quarterback?
Mahomes and Rodgers would've been an ideal set of backups!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Prefer he retire or be replaced as he doesn't do a good job  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 4:54 pm : link
In comment 15061848 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15061758 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


I do agree the jury is still out on Jones. I am not sold yet. Some are. The rest of the season matters. The injury to Jones is devastating. I could care less about the playoffs. I want these games to evaluate Jones. The games in the beginning of the year are kind of worthless evaluation IMHO. The line was so bad and we installed everything new without the ability to practice or play preseason. I said before the season started, we should judge this team on the last 8 games. I stand by that.



I'm glad you brought this up because it is a salient point - getting Jones more reps down the stretch is crucial to make a final-final decision (in my eyes).

The more times he misses, the more complicated this becomes, especially if his play stays choppy and uneven.
yup
RE: Are we excluding the first 2 years?  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15061844 GManinDC said:
Quote:
I ask that because reading the comments, it seems those saying yes are relying a lot on this year alone and not really considering the first 2.

Those saying no, or not yet, are equating the first 2 years.

Essex makes some good point on this thread.

Depends on what you think of the roster, minus emotion, just pure talent and promising players on the roster when he took over. And who hires the coaches.

It's easy to say Mara hired Shurmur and DG hired Judge. Also easy to say DG hired Shurmur and Mara hired Judge.

IMO, they are hired by committee..
Not excluding the first 2 years, but this is a journey. He inherited a fucking mess. If we can't agree on that, we should just stop. From declining and beloved QB, Diva WR, to the state of the roster.

Fucking mess.

If, (please do not discount the IF) at the end of this year I feel like we have 2 young, big and physical lines, A QB for the future and a young head coach that looks promising I am am going to want them to keep him. If the line regresses and DJ loses more games with heartbreaking turnovers I am going gonna be with the people with the pitchforks.
RE: RE: Yes he survives  
5BowlsSoon : 11/30/2020 6:02 pm : link
In comment 15061541 alsoknownaskaz said:
Quote:
In comment 15061528 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


What kind of dumb question is that? Cant you see how much we are trending upward. Cant you see all the free agents he has brought in for this year? I’m not going to waste my time to list them, because if you don’t know, you aren’t very cerebral.

And I don’t want to hear about the past, like Solder or Tate....what has he done for me lately?

A LOT!

Anyone who disagrees is wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion, even a bad one.



A losing record in year 3, coming off a miserable two years after a whiff of a hire with Pat Shurmur and sub-par draft picks. It's not unreasonable to ask if a few good moves can save your job from a ton of terrible ones.


If he goes, he will go on his own terms. He has earned that right.

I think 90% of Giant fans now feel we have a team, coaches, a qb, and we like what we are seeing. Win or lose, they are always competitive...and this without a preseason under a new regime.

DG helped bring this together. What happened years 1-2 are irrelevant. When he came on board, we stunk....now, we are trending upward and finally have a plan being implemented.

DG initiated the Hog Mollie plan on both lines....guess what? He was right!

DG deserves our praise not our disgust. Some here have talked poorly about him because of a few past sins. Everyone makes some bad decisions, even the great Bill Belicheck.
Fire him now.  
Reale01 : 11/30/2020 6:34 pm : link
The structural weaknesses in Jones's hamstring, Xmines shoulder, Carter's achilles, and Barkley's knee should have been recognized prior to the draft. How is he still here?
...  
christian : 11/30/2020 6:48 pm : link
There’s a ton on the line this offseason:

- Do you cut Zeitler, Solder, Tate?
- Do you retain or replace Williams, Tomlinson, Ryan, and Gallman?
- Do you pay the 5th year option on Peppers and Engram, trade, or extend them?
- Do you try and extend Barkley to a team friendly deal and leverage the injury to their benefit?
- Do you try and extend Bradberry and Martinez beyond the 2 years they have left?

This is the most critical offseason since 2005. I think quite literally this offseason determines whether you get a championship out of the Barkley/Jones era or not.
Let me ask the exact same question with this change...  
LBH15 : 11/30/2020 7:03 pm : link
This is what the NFC East looks like instead:

Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7

Does Gettleman survive this year?
The Giants  
Shady Lurker : 11/30/2020 7:42 pm : link
are a conservative team in a conservative league. He'll stay but he should go
RE: Let me ask the exact same question with this change...  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2020 7:57 pm : link
In comment 15062092 LBH15 said:
Quote:
This is what the NFC East looks like instead:

Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7

Does Gettleman survive this year?
Same answer. Wait until the end 9f year. Is the OL set for the future? How about the DL? QB? If those 5h8ngs look good I think DG will be retained but I think he retires.
Gettleman is senior vp and general manager.  
Ira : 11/30/2020 8:04 pm : link
Maybe he stays at senior vp and Abrams becomes gm.
Yes, and he should  
montanagiant : 11/30/2020 8:05 pm : link
Tired of the G-Dog hate
What has Gettleman done  
ajr2456 : 11/30/2020 8:05 pm : link
To have earned going out on his own terms? Better GMs have gotten fired from teams.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 11/30/2020 8:07 pm : link
In comment 15062079 christian said:
Quote:
There’s a ton on the line this offseason:

- Do you cut Zeitler, Solder, Tate?
- Do you retain or replace Williams, Tomlinson, Ryan, and Gallman?
- Do you pay the 5th year option on Peppers and Engram, trade, or extend them?
- Do you try and extend Barkley to a team friendly deal and leverage the injury to their benefit?
- Do you try and extend Bradberry and Martinez beyond the 2 years they have left?

This is the most critical offseason since 2005. I think quite literally this offseason determines whether you get a championship out of the Barkley/Jones era or not.


I really am fond of Bradberry, but he's 27. So he's getting close to the peak for a corner. I'd probably avoid an extension.

I would shop Barkley now just as a trial balloon. Otherwise, you have to wait to see how his performs in 2012. If he plays great, then you try to trade him with his value - hopefully - at its peak. But that could be a narrow market because a lot of teams operate now as if the RB position is a widget. The bottom line is we can't extend him and need to catch up with the conventional thinking with RBs...

I am very excited by the season Peppers has had. A real good swiss army knife. Definitely worth keeping at the right price - whatever that is... ;) So I likely let Logan walk.

On Dr. Engram and Mr. Hyde, I would consider trading him. A strong case can be made that one of the five best players in this draft is Kyle Pitts. If we have a shot at him, and take him, Engram becomes expendable...

I'm not afraid to let Williams walk and keep Tomlinson. And ride with Williamson, Tomlinson et al.

We need more speed at RB, so I would let Gallman walk. He's just a plodder. There are always solutions at RB...you just have to turn over enough rocks.
...  
christian : 11/30/2020 8:23 pm : link
I’d probably give DG one more year, and let him finish up what he’s started. And if the Giants aren’t a playoff team next year he’s gone.

If the next crop of players don’t get this team into serious contention, I think the batting average is just way too low.

It’s a huge offseason, he’s got a ton to prove.
RE: ...  
Sean : 11/30/2020 9:00 pm : link
In comment 15062228 christian said:
Quote:
I’d probably give DG one more year, and let him finish up what he’s started. And if the Giants aren’t a playoff team next year he’s gone.

If the next crop of players don’t get this team into serious contention, I think the batting average is just way too low.

It’s a huge offseason, he’s got a ton to prove.


I think this is one of the most fair, rationale takes regarding Gettleman on BBI.
RE: Let me ask the exact same question with this change...  
Bill L : 11/30/2020 9:07 pm : link
In comment 15062092 LBH15 said:
Quote:
This is what the NFC East looks like instead:

Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7

Does Gettleman survive this year?

Wasn’t there another thread where we were told you can’t use “if this”, “if that”?
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 11/30/2020 11:11 pm : link
In comment 15062325 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15062228 christian said:


Quote:


I’d probably give DG one more year, and let him finish up what he’s started. And if the Giants aren’t a playoff team next year he’s gone.

If the next crop of players don’t get this team into serious contention, I think the batting average is just way too low.

It’s a huge offseason, he’s got a ton to prove.



I think this is one of the most fair, rationale takes regarding Gettleman on BBI.


If I’d been in charge, both Gettleman and Shurmur would have been gone. But it’s too much plausible deniability when you keeping shifting GMs and coaches out. Personally I think 3 years is enough to judge a GM, but with 2 coaches in 3 years it’s muddy.

If a GM can’t put together a playoff team in 4 years with the number of premium picks and cap space Gettleman was afforded, he’s not cut out for it.
christian  
Sean : 11/30/2020 11:19 pm : link
Another huge factor is Judge. The GM supports the coach, I’ve been very pleased with Judge thus far, so I’m not that interested in shaking up the front office.

If Judge & Gettleman work well together, I’m fine with it. I’m not thrilled with the idea of bringing in a GM who hasn’t worked with Judge previously, that doesn’t make sense imo.
...  
christian : 11/30/2020 11:28 pm : link
^ Agreed. I also wonder if it’s a coincidence the Giants had 2 dog shit UFA classes in 2018 and 2019, and then a home run in 2020 when Judge showed up.

If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.
RE: Let me ask the exact same question with this change...  
djm : 12/1/2020 12:09 am : link
In comment 15062092 LBH15 said:
Quote:
This is what the NFC East looks like instead:

Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7

Does Gettleman survive this year?


Lol ok. let’s keep playing fantasy island and why not give the giants 2 more wins this season since they lost 4 that easily could have gone either way and only lost those games because the young qb struggled.

Give me a break. If you can’t see the process being made you’re blind. Forget the record and standings. The team is developing right before our eyes. And again, can we finish the god damned season first before we proclaim the record in bedrock? For fucks sake. You guys have been temperature taking DG and so called this brutally shitty roster all year long but uhh ohhhh the giants are playing better, 4-2 since the 0-5 start, something many of us said they might do, so can we see how things end up? Many if you had the worst nyg roster ever going 2-14 this year. Now what? Save it. Please.
RE: RE: Let me ask the exact same question with this change...  
LBH15 : 12/1/2020 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15062778 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15062092 LBH15 said:


Quote:


This is what the NFC East looks like instead:

Dallas 8-3
Phil 7-4
Giants 4-7
WFT 4-7

Does Gettleman survive this year?



Lol ok. let’s keep playing fantasy island and why not give the giants 2 more wins this season since they lost 4 that easily could have gone either way and only lost those games because the young qb struggled.

Give me a break. If you can’t see the process being made you’re blind. Forget the record and standings. The team is developing right before our eyes. And again, can we finish the god damned season first before we proclaim the record in bedrock? For fucks sake. You guys have been temperature taking DG and so called this brutally shitty roster all year long but uhh ohhhh the giants are playing better, 4-2 since the 0-5 start, something many of us said they might do, so can we see how things end up? Many if you had the worst nyg roster ever going 2-14 this year. Now what? Save it. Please.


The extremes you got thru just to post a few sentences never ceases to amaze me.

My point, that you missed, is DG should be measured on the quality of the roster he builds. Not the poor quality or misfortune of the other 3 divisional foes this season.
If you're reading the tea leaves that began to fall a few weeks ago  
JonC : 12/1/2020 12:42 pm : link
I think it's clear they want to retain him.
Of course they want to retain him.  
LBH15 : 12/1/2020 12:45 pm : link
The more interesting debate is the should they.
RE: ...  
BrettNYG10 : 12/1/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 15062720 christian said:
Quote:
^ Agreed. I also wonder if it’s a coincidence the Giants had 2 dog shit UFA classes in 2018 and 2019, and then a home run in 2020 when Judge showed up.

If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.


What is a make or break year? Do we have to go 8-8? 9-7? Playoffs?
RE: RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 12/1/2020 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15063306 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 15062720 christian said:


Quote:


^ Agreed. I also wonder if it’s a coincidence the Giants had 2 dog shit UFA classes in 2018 and 2019, and then a home run in 2020 when Judge showed up.

If Gettleman is still a principal in decision making, then next year has got to be his make or break year. If he’s Judge’s errand boy, then I guess who cares if he stays or goes.



What is a make or break year? Do we have to go 8-8? 9-7? Playoffs?


Given the takes this year, 7 wins and a bunch of close losses would get him another year.
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