Also, I don't know the stat, but the # of attempts matters too. You take 3 deep shots a game and hit on 1, you might be rated higher than QB who takes 8 and hits on 3.
RE: RE: RE: Mahomes makes throws that just leave you dumbfounded
I don't think I've ever seen anyone be able to throw on the run in the opposite direction with the kind of zip and accuracy he does every single week, not even John Elway.
Yeah, he's just different. Did you see the 75 yarder to Hill on Sunday? The ball traveled 62 yards in the air and it was probably 10 feet in the air at its peak. Just a laser with a flick of the wrist. The majority of the QBs are putting enough air under that ball that is looks like they just hit a pitching wedge.
To me, Elway, Marino and Rodgers were the best throwers of a football I have seen in my lifetime. Favre in the hunt, too.
But Mahomes is doing things with arm angles, body contortions, poor mechanics, etc that I've never seen. And still making winning plays...
Mahomes is as good as those guys, all things considered. He has equal velocity to anyone and he is the best thrower of the football when on the move. His ability to quick release lasers when on the move is his super power. Others have been good or great at it - Elway/Rodgers - but in that regard Mahomes is unmatched.
I really like Mahomes, he's unquestionably awesome. But I feel like people overhype his talent in relation to Aaron Rodgers. Do people forget the kind of crazy stuff Rodgers was doing 10 years ago? He was capable of making just as impressive throws on the run as Mahomes, his bread and butter was literally rolling out and making an insane pass towards the sideline. He's older now but still tearing the league up and making ridiculous throws. He's right there with Mahomes in the MVP race this year and right there with him as an all-time arm talent.
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
Ben Albright's compiled data from 2008-2019 (probably has 2020 too, but I can't find it), though some of the top prospects didn't throw.
Josh Allen 61
Mahomes 60
Logan Thomas 60 (now a TE...)
Cousins 59
Mayfield 57
Wentz 57
Garoppolo 56
Newton 56 - no where close to this now
Colt McCoy 56
Wilson 55
Trubisky 55
Drew Lock 55
Daniel Jones 54
Lamar Jackson 53 Link - ( New Window )
I don't know the specifics of the stat, but it had nothing to do with a strong arm. I believe it was just that Jones has the highest passer rating on deep passes, though I don't recall the min # of passes or what quantifies as "deep".
The combine numbers are such a silly metric because they dont
specifically tell those guys to drill the ball in there. They just go out and throw. If they instructed the guys to do it, it would certainly have more meaning and this has been discussed to death here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Mahomes makes throws that just leave you dumbfounded
I really like Mahomes, he's unquestionably awesome. But I feel like people overhype his talent in relation to Aaron Rodgers. Do people forget the kind of crazy stuff Rodgers was doing 10 years ago? He was capable of making just as impressive throws on the run as Mahomes, his bread and butter was literally rolling out and making an insane pass towards the sideline. He's older now but still tearing the league up and making ridiculous throws. He's right there with Mahomes in the MVP race this year and right there with him as an all-time arm talent.
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
All that is fair. And there is a flavor of the month feel with Mahomes. But he can sling it. He moves around like a great short stop and then unleashes these tight ropes everywhere on the field. So there is some extra style points he racks up. But the ball gets there is a hurry and it looks so effortless.
He's a true savant. And that, I believe, is what makes him so outstanding is because you can't teach it. He leaves you in awe.
It's really a gift from the football gods...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Mahomes makes throws that just leave you dumbfounded
I really like Mahomes, he's unquestionably awesome. But I feel like people overhype his talent in relation to Aaron Rodgers. Do people forget the kind of crazy stuff Rodgers was doing 10 years ago? He was capable of making just as impressive throws on the run as Mahomes, his bread and butter was literally rolling out and making an insane pass towards the sideline. He's older now but still tearing the league up and making ridiculous throws. He's right there with Mahomes in the MVP race this year and right there with him as an all-time arm talent.
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
All that is fair. And there is a flavor of the month feel with Mahomes. But he can sling it. He moves around like a great short stop and then unleashes these tight ropes everywhere on the field. So there is some extra style points he racks up. But the ball gets there is a hurry and it looks so effortless.
He's a true savant. And that, I believe, is what makes him so outstanding is because you can't teach it. He leaves you in awe.
It's really a gift from the football gods...
Mahomes definitely seems to make off-balance throws more often than even Rodgers. He's just a very unique and fun player to watch, and is comfortable making all sorts of funky throws. Rodgers doesn't do it as often, but I've seen him throw his fair share of off balance lasers too.
I love Mahomes. I just think the media is a little quick to annoint him as "the most talented QB ever" when that was what they called Aaron Rodgers 5 years ago and Rodgers is still out there having an arguably superior season to Mahomes right now. My issue is more with the media than Mahomes himself.
I think Rodgers is the best QB of the generation after Manning and
I still think Mahomes is better than him. Just absolutely insane, but I can understand why people would take Rodgers at this point. Imagine if he had a real coach!
RE: The combine numbers are such a silly metric because they dont
specifically tell those guys to drill the ball in there. They just go out and throw. If they instructed the guys to do it, it would certainly have more meaning and this has been discussed to death here.
But at this point everyone knows that they're measuring your velocity.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Mahomes makes throws that just leave you dumbfounded
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
Elway's arm is the best I've ever seen. He made two throws in the first half of Super Bowl XXI that defy logic. I've linked to the 2nd one, Elway rolls out to his left, sets his feet at the 26 just inside the numbers on the far side, and unleashes a throw all the way across the field to the near sideline at the 31 - technically 43 "air yards" and the ball never got higher than 20 feet off the ground.
It's so ridiculous that at first it doesn't even look impressive - then you look at the yard lines and have to watch it again. Imagine drawing that play up in a QB room with three human QBs. "Uh, coach..."
One other guy that could really fling it was Jeff George. The guy that threw an NFL ball like the original NERF Turbo. Link - ( New Window )
It's so ridiculous that at first it doesn't even look impressive - then you look at the yard lines and have to watch it again. Imagine drawing that play up in a QB room with three human QBs. "Uh, coach..."
One other guy that could really fling it was Jeff George. The guy that threw an NFL ball like the original NERF Turbo. Link - ( New Window )
Madden: How many quarterbacks do you think can do that ...
Summerall: (cutting him off) None.
is how fast and mobile he is. Yes, he can throw lasers from any angle and has an incredible arm -- but if he NEEDS to, he can operate as a scrambling QB. He's like Aaron Rodgers with crazier arm angles, while also having a bit of Lamar in him (not as much of a dazzling movemaker when he runs, but he has the speed and vision to).
That, to me, is why he's the most talented QB I've ever seen. There are zero holes in his game, and he can quickly switch the "type" of QB he is if needed.
is how fast and mobile he is. Yes, he can throw lasers from any angle and has an incredible arm -- but if he NEEDS to, he can operate as a scrambling QB. He's like Aaron Rodgers with crazier arm angles, while also having a bit of Lamar in him (not as much of a dazzling movemaker when he runs, but he has the speed and vision to).
That, to me, is why he's the most talented QB I've ever seen. There are zero holes in his game, and he can quickly switch the "type" of QB he is if needed.
Mahomes definitely has shown an ability to make clutch runs in big situations, he did it in the playoffs often last year. But I don't think he's any faster or better at running the ball than Aaron Rodgers was in his 20s/early 30s. Mahomes and Rodgers both average 17 Rushing Yards per game over their career and that's including Rodgers' last few years where he doesn't run as much. I believe Rodgers ran the faster 40yd dash at the combine as well.
Also, I don't know the stat, but the # of attempts matters too. You take 3 deep shots a game and hit on 1, you might be rated higher than QB who takes 8 and hits on 3.
Quote:
In comment 15062980 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone be able to throw on the run in the opposite direction with the kind of zip and accuracy he does every single week, not even John Elway.
Yeah, he's just different. Did you see the 75 yarder to Hill on Sunday? The ball traveled 62 yards in the air and it was probably 10 feet in the air at its peak. Just a laser with a flick of the wrist. The majority of the QBs are putting enough air under that ball that is looks like they just hit a pitching wedge.
To me, Elway, Marino and Rodgers were the best throwers of a football I have seen in my lifetime. Favre in the hunt, too.
But Mahomes is doing things with arm angles, body contortions, poor mechanics, etc that I've never seen. And still making winning plays...
Mahomes is as good as those guys, all things considered. He has equal velocity to anyone and he is the best thrower of the football when on the move. His ability to quick release lasers when on the move is his super power. Others have been good or great at it - Elway/Rodgers - but in that regard Mahomes is unmatched.
I really like Mahomes, he's unquestionably awesome. But I feel like people overhype his talent in relation to Aaron Rodgers. Do people forget the kind of crazy stuff Rodgers was doing 10 years ago? He was capable of making just as impressive throws on the run as Mahomes, his bread and butter was literally rolling out and making an insane pass towards the sideline. He's older now but still tearing the league up and making ridiculous throws. He's right there with Mahomes in the MVP race this year and right there with him as an all-time arm talent.
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
Josh Allen 61
Mahomes 60
Logan Thomas 60 (now a TE...)
Cousins 59
Mayfield 57
Wentz 57
Garoppolo 56
Newton 56 - no where close to this now
Colt McCoy 56
Wilson 55
Trubisky 55
Drew Lock 55
Daniel Jones 54
Lamar Jackson 53
Link - ( New Window )
I really like Mahomes, he's unquestionably awesome. But I feel like people overhype his talent in relation to Aaron Rodgers. Do people forget the kind of crazy stuff Rodgers was doing 10 years ago? He was capable of making just as impressive throws on the run as Mahomes, his bread and butter was literally rolling out and making an insane pass towards the sideline. He's older now but still tearing the league up and making ridiculous throws. He's right there with Mahomes in the MVP race this year and right there with him as an all-time arm talent.
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
All that is fair. And there is a flavor of the month feel with Mahomes. But he can sling it. He moves around like a great short stop and then unleashes these tight ropes everywhere on the field. So there is some extra style points he racks up. But the ball gets there is a hurry and it looks so effortless.
He's a true savant. And that, I believe, is what makes him so outstanding is because you can't teach it. He leaves you in awe.
It's really a gift from the football gods...
Quote:
I really like Mahomes, he's unquestionably awesome. But I feel like people overhype his talent in relation to Aaron Rodgers. Do people forget the kind of crazy stuff Rodgers was doing 10 years ago? He was capable of making just as impressive throws on the run as Mahomes, his bread and butter was literally rolling out and making an insane pass towards the sideline. He's older now but still tearing the league up and making ridiculous throws. He's right there with Mahomes in the MVP race this year and right there with him as an all-time arm talent.
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
All that is fair. And there is a flavor of the month feel with Mahomes. But he can sling it. He moves around like a great short stop and then unleashes these tight ropes everywhere on the field. So there is some extra style points he racks up. But the ball gets there is a hurry and it looks so effortless.
He's a true savant. And that, I believe, is what makes him so outstanding is because you can't teach it. He leaves you in awe.
It's really a gift from the football gods...
Mahomes definitely seems to make off-balance throws more often than even Rodgers. He's just a very unique and fun player to watch, and is comfortable making all sorts of funky throws. Rodgers doesn't do it as often, but I've seen him throw his fair share of off balance lasers too.
I love Mahomes. I just think the media is a little quick to annoint him as "the most talented QB ever" when that was what they called Aaron Rodgers 5 years ago and Rodgers is still out there having an arguably superior season to Mahomes right now. My issue is more with the media than Mahomes himself.
But at this point everyone knows that they're measuring your velocity.
Elway is hard to compare since his offensive system was ancient compared to the stuff you see today. But his arm was historically good which one reason why he was the single greatest QB prospect in NFL history so I can't say that Mahomes is clearly a better arm talent.
Elway's arm is the best I've ever seen. He made two throws in the first half of Super Bowl XXI that defy logic. I've linked to the 2nd one, Elway rolls out to his left, sets his feet at the 26 just inside the numbers on the far side, and unleashes a throw all the way across the field to the near sideline at the 31 - technically 43 "air yards" and the ball never got higher than 20 feet off the ground.
Preposterous.
Link - ( New Window )
One other guy that could really fling it was Jeff George. The guy that threw an NFL ball like the original NERF Turbo.
Link - ( New Window )
One other guy that could really fling it was Jeff George. The guy that threw an NFL ball like the original NERF Turbo. Link - ( New Window )
Madden: How many quarterbacks do you think can do that ...
Summerall: (cutting him off) None.
That, to me, is why he's the most talented QB I've ever seen. There are zero holes in his game, and he can quickly switch the "type" of QB he is if needed.
it's close though.
All time.
Best arm I have ever seen is Bert Jones. He was Elway before Elway.
That, to me, is why he's the most talented QB I've ever seen. There are zero holes in his game, and he can quickly switch the "type" of QB he is if needed.
Mahomes definitely has shown an ability to make clutch runs in big situations, he did it in the playoffs often last year. But I don't think he's any faster or better at running the ball than Aaron Rodgers was in his 20s/early 30s. Mahomes and Rodgers both average 17 Rushing Yards per game over their career and that's including Rodgers' last few years where he doesn't run as much. I believe Rodgers ran the faster 40yd dash at the combine as well.