I couldn't be more disappointed in the Jones injury. The biggest story going into this week should have been Jones hasn't turned the ball over in three consecutive games. That was a monumental change in the whole team dynamic that I think hasn't been talked about enough.
Did anyone else feel like Jones really started to come into his own these last few weeks in a way that says, this guy might be the franchise guy? Or am I crazy?
To me the turnovers and losses were major issues, but he really turned it around in an unprecedented way these last few weeks...
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no doubt. but he is still often inaccurate, throwing to the wrong side too many times. And he has been playing bad teams during this streak. I personally don't think he'll be a championship QB in this league but until we find someone better he has a chance to prove he is.
Did Eli look like a championship QB in his second season? The thing giving me pause is that I've felt he hasn't been as good in crunch time as Eli. But Eli didn't look great until the end of his 4th season.
Personally, I had a better feeling about Eli. I don't know why. Maybe it was that he was such a high pedigree QB. I think Eli was a lot more than a game manager. He won games in dramatic fashion. Even in yr 2. Jones doesn't seem to have that winning, leadership mentality. We'll see though.
How long does a typical injury like this take to come back to 100% with no additional risk of injury on average? How much to 80-90% full health?
I think id take 80% with a small chance of reinjury if you eliminate RPO/designed runs for him to play vs SEA.
But the bigger and more important change to my eyes is how he is now reading the field and making adjustments at the LOS and even his post snap recognition and reaction.
He's evolving in the QB's point guard role, and that has been crucial to the elevation of his play, and therefore the team's.
How long does a typical injury like this take to come back to 100% with no additional risk of injury on average? How much to 80-90% full health?
I think id take 80% with a small chance of reinjury if you eliminate RPO/designed runs for him to play vs SEA.
He prolly won't be 100% for the remainder of 2020. He won't have the opportunity to rest and rehab it.
As soon as he can manage to throw off the leg at some level like 85-90% efficacy, even if he cannot RUN at all, he'll be back in the lineup.
It's who he is, and how important he is to team success.
Caveat I'm not a Dr, but have suffered a really bad hamstring tear once that also tore a significan vein in my leg.
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5th in yards, tied for 4th in TDs.
And Jones had one of the best rookie seasons in history other than fumbles that he has had under control more or less this year. He HAS regressed this year but has also played in a much more conservative offense with not half the talent the 05 Giants had.
I agree Jones was really good last year, but this thread is about him turning a corner. He's still much worse than last year.
Big challenges for sure.
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In comment 15063141 BrettNYG10 said:
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I agree Jones was really good last year, but this thread is about him turning a corner. He's still much worse than last year.
He is MUCH BETTER in reading the field now, he's doing much more as a field general. Garrett's taken away many of PS's simplifications.
He needs to slide or go out of bounds, even when it means coming up short of a first down. He has the talent to lead us as far as the rest of the team will allow.
That goes for the entire NYG football team right now. They're beating fellow clunkers, need to beat a winner.
But where are the points? That's what the 6th pick is supposed to do - produce more points.
I'm not declaring any "corner turned" until I see a high draft pick doing high draft pick things...
He needs to slide or go out of bounds, even when it means coming up short of a first down. He has the talent to lead us as far as the rest of the team will allow.
Can we start with top-10 in one season? Because right now he around #25. Maybe with his improved play he is around 15 to 18. It is a big jump to top 10, much less top 10 for ten seasons. He has done nothing so far to comfortably project him as an enduring top 10 QB.
With that said, front office really needed to get him another WR this season. And Evan Engram's struggles to stop helping the opposing defense is consistently hurting DJ too.
But overall, corner not yet turned.
I like Jones, by all accounts he works hard. I think he throws a pretty nice ball and I like that he can run. But it’s 2020 not 1980, you need to be able to score in bunches.
But where are the points? That's what the 6th pick is supposed to do - produce more points.
I'm not declaring any "corner turned" until I see a high draft pick doing high draft pick things...
Having 7.6 yards per carry rushing, being the #1 deep ball passer in the league right now, 3rd in rushing yards by a QB this year, three passing TD's short of the rookie record last year...
Do these not classify as "high draft pick things"?
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game manager.
But where are the points? That's what the 6th pick is supposed to do - produce more points.
I'm not declaring any "corner turned" until I see a high draft pick doing high draft pick things...
Having 7.6 yards per carry rushing, being the #1 deep ball passer in the league right now, 3rd in rushing yards by a QB this year, three passing TD's short of the rookie record last year...
Do these not classify as "high draft pick things"?
You think Daniel Jones is the #1 deep ball passer in the league right now? What about Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, etc etc..
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Jones: 14/24, 5 TDs/0 INTs (Giants - 19.5 PPG)
Rodgers: 25/58, 8/1 (Packers - 31.7 PPG)
Mahomes: 18/46, 9/1 (Chiefs - 31.6 PPG)
Herbert: 19/45, 10/3 (Chargers - 25.2 PPG)
Wilson: 19/46, 11/3 (Seahawks - 31.0 PPG)
Prescott: 15/28, 4/1 (Cowboys - 32.6 PPG in Dak's 5 games)
See a difference in those guys? Yes, Jones has the highest rating. And yes, he does throw the deep ball well. But he is not prolific in this area and downfield passing is how you score in this league.
Prior to his injury Jones was playing better in that the turnovers were gone and he was running the ball well. But he was not creating points with his passing.
Jones is still a question mark at quarterback. Next year has to be a lot better.
That rating could say 1,424.0 and he wouldn't be the best deep ball passer in the league.
He also has a higher yard per carry than Saquon Barkley. Does that make him a better runner than him too?
Jones: 14/24, 5 TDs/0 INTs (Giants - 19.5 PPG)
Rodgers: 25/58, 8/1 (Packers - 31.7 PPG)
Mahomes: 18/46, 9/1 (Chiefs - 31.6 PPG)
Herbert: 19/45, 10/3 (Chargers - 25.2 PPG)
Wilson: 19/46, 11/3 (Seahawks - 31.0 PPG)
Prescott: 15/28, 4/1 (Cowboys - 32.6 PPG in Dak's 5 games)
See a difference in those guys? Yes, Jones has the highest rating. And yes, he does throw the deep ball well. But he is not prolific in this area and downfield passing is how you score in this league.
Prior to his injury Jones was playing better in that the turnovers were gone and he was running the ball well. But he was not creating points with his passing.
Jones is still a question mark at quarterback. Next year has to be a lot better.
He plays in a conservative offense though that until the last 4 games had a terrible pass protection. He's not the best deep ball passer in the league but is a good one.
Now I'm not a big metrics guy, but it seems like this should not be surprising that he's throwing a great deep ball right now. This is who they drafted.
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game manager.
But where are the points? That's what the 6th pick is supposed to do - produce more points.
I'm not declaring any "corner turned" until I see a high draft pick doing high draft pick things...
Having 7.6 yards per carry rushing, being the #1 deep ball passer in the league right now, 3rd in rushing yards by a QB this year, three passing TD's short of the rookie record last year...
Do these not classify as "high draft pick things"?
I do like the ability to produce yards with his legs. Check.
The deep ball stuff is okay, but those are a bit distorted. He is has good touch on these lolipop throws to a spot allowing the receiver to run under the ball. Fine. But he doesn't really drive the ball downfield like a Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, etc where he can drill it into tight coverage. Those plays create more points. But Jones does throw a catchable ball - by and large - so that's noteworthy.
Again, the QB is most directly responsible for PPG. True?
This year we are 30th at 19.8PPG. Last year we scored 21.3 PPG for 19th place.
That speaks volumes to me...
We now have what looks to be a young, offensive line that can hold blocks. Now in this draft we need to get a big, physical WR that can go up and get the 50/50 balls, and gets consistent separation. If we can find a true TE while we're at it, all the better.
It's a symbiotic relationship. As the team improves, Jones will improve, and the points/passing TD's will come. It's not like he doesn't have the ability to put it on a rope and dime like he did to Golden Tate in the 4th QTR against Tampa with the game on the line. There was nothing lolipop about that throw.
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But by and large it's the decision making and vision that's an issue. He's had stretches where he just doesn't see what's happening on the field because he's prescribed his throw pre-snap (again think of the pick against TB that should have been a deep TD to Slayton on the opposite side of the field).
I'd agree that Jones is improving, but that has to continue in a big way next year...that's when the contract questions will start to be asked, and right now he's nowhere close to meriting long term consideration beyond his rookie deal.
Shep is also not looking like his old self, think he's protecting his noggin from the next concussion. So, we're potentially looking for two WRs, if I'm the GM.
1. Needs to be able to make plays with his legs when the pocket collapses
2. Big/tall pocket passer that can re-establish the launch point with his legs, looking for the pass first, but able to run for the first down if neccessary.
3. Throws a good deep ball
4. Can go through his progressions and find the open man by reading a defense.
I really think we have that guy. The guy we all wanted in our head was the prototype and it appears Daniel Jones at least has all of those traits, although they are developing. Protect him. Give him weapons. Then you'll see what he can really do.
1. Needs to be able to make plays with his legs when the pocket collapses
2. Big/tall pocket passer that can re-establish the launch point with his legs, looking for the pass first, but able to run for the first down if neccessary.
3. Throws a good deep ball
4. Can go through his progressions and find the open man by reading a defense.
I really think we have that guy. The guy we all wanted in our head was the prototype and it appears Daniel Jones at least has all of those traits, although they are developing. Protect him. Give him weapons. Then you'll see what he can really do.
Baldinger showed it in the breakdown today, when he has a pocket, he can go through his progressions. It's hard to get off your first read when you are facing a jailbreak, which let's be honest, has been most of his time here until the recent weeks.
Herbert - 23/7, 3015, 7.5
Tannehill - 23/4, 2608, 7.8
Cousins - 23/11, 2768, 8.7
Allen - 22/8, 3028, 7.8
Carr - 19/4, 2646, 7.6
Burrow - 13/5, 1688, 6.7
Minshew - 13/5, 1855, 6.9 (7 starts)
Jones - 8/9, 2335, 6.5
I'm not even going to bother comparing him to the elite guys. Jones isn't measuring up to even these guys I listed. He simply hasn't been good enough...if he were a veteran we'd all be looking to replace him ASAP.
You asked what we'd have wanted from a QB back in 2018. My answer is this: 30+ TDs, -10 INTs, 8.0+ YPA. That's what the elite guys are doing, and that's what Jones is supposed to be approaching as the 6th pick overall. But he isn't in that universe.
This will be 2 seasons where Jones didn't get the job done to a level commensurate with what could reasonably be expected of him based on what we're seeing from other young QBs.
At minimum he should have to beat some actual competition for the starting QB job next year. It shouldn't be handed to him. If he wins it, great. Then go out and have a big year. Otherwise, it's time to start looking elsewhere at the position.
Some of us pointed out his negatives last year, and sure enough those negatives have manifested themselves as real problems on the field this year. They have lost us games in a year where 7 wins would win the division going away.
Don't give Jones the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't deserve it. It's on him to kick the door down.
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in 12 games, we weren't allowed to talk about that, only his negatives. And now we're hearing how he's not getting those types of numbers as if they never happened. Some of you don't even hide your bias.
Some of us pointed out his negatives last year, and sure enough those negatives have manifested themselves as real problems on the field this year. They have lost us games in a year where 7 wins would win the division going away.
Don't give Jones the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't deserve it. It's on him to kick the door down.
Exactly, now you moved the goalposts and he's not putting up those numbers that he put up last year that once again you're completely ignoring.
Jones isn't in their universe. He's also been surpassed by Herbert.
Jones was drafted to be an elite player. He's miles from it. He has to get better quickly.
This is nonsense. I was incredibly high on Jones after last season. I'm not as high this season. I don't see the potential I saw last year. If Jones had the same season he had last year, this team would be 6-5 or 7-4.
Next year's the big year.
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in 12 games, we weren't allowed to talk about that, only his negatives. And now we're hearing how he's not getting those types of numbers as if they never happened. Some of you don't even hide your bias.
This is nonsense. I was incredibly high on Jones after last season. I'm not as high this season. I don't see the potential I saw last year. If Jones had the same season he had last year, this team would be 6-5 or 7-4.
Next year's the big year.
I was talking about Terps. Plus, he's playing in a different much more conservative system. That said he's clearly not as good as he was last year but he's been trending up lately. He had a good rookie year, nothing says that QB progression has to be linear. Lamar Jackson has also regressed as far as I know.
Jones isn't in their universe. He's also been surpassed by Herbert.
Jones was drafted to be an elite player. He's miles from it. He has to get better quickly.
You cherry picked some guys. What about Darnold, Rosen, Trubisky, Haskins, and even Mayfield? This post is so misleading, making it sound like Jones is worse than every QB taken high in recent memory. He's somewhere in the middle.