My source has told me that Eagle management has already had internal discussions on possibly trying to unload Wentz (after the season) to a team with alot of cap space by also including a second round pick in the deal (NBA style cap unload).
Initial "feelers" have given management the impression that this will likely not happen as any team that would be able and willing to do the deal would want the Eagle first rounder, which might be in the top 8 at this point.
Eagles feel this price is too high and the needs of he team are too big.
I think Miami did this a few years ago.
You just never know..
Over the Cap article on trading Wentz - ( New Window )
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Over the Cap article on trading Wentz - ( New Window )
Thanks. That makes sense.
I would imagine the price would be high so they will need to bite the bullet.
I would imagine the price would be high so they will need to bite the bullet.
Just to be clear, all future guaranteed money not all his guaranteed money.
Why would anyone assume his contract? I don’t care whether you’re a contender or not, he’s STILL rather fragile, imv..Ask Terps if he’d assume the contract..😎
I miss Darren Sproles..😂
You can essentially trade salary spots of Brees and Wentz.
Qb's not on rookie deals are expensive- why do you think the League goes to such lengths to protect them? Wentz' contract will be barely in the top 10 for qb's once Prescott gets his deal and will be league average once Murray, Herbert, Jones, Burrow etc are either off or get their rookie deals torn up after extensions.
In the end, I think the Eagles will chalk this year up to injuries wrecking the offense, a WR corp filled with rookies and UDFA and defenses catching up to the RPO.
Jets?
Wentz has been bad but he isn't Brock Osweiler bad, is he? No way you get more than a 2nd + Wentz trying to do this. Wentz could actually be an upgrade for a handful of teams. Especially ones with a good OL and old QBs... like Indy, Pitt, N.O, Tampa...
But man, that contract is an albatross. They're already 60-70 mill over the cap by most estimates. Wentz's cap number is over 30 million next year and something like 60 mill in dead money if they were to try and move on. They can clear some space by moving on from Jackson and Jeffrey and they have some older guys they can restructure but kicking the can down the road in order to gear up for one more run is how they found themselves in this mess to begin with.
what am i missing here?
Guy is a great talent
Colts have the 3rd most cap space.
Colts have a top 10 defense.
Colts have a great OL to protect Wentz.
Colts need a QB (Rivers is a FA) and won't be in position to get a top prospect via the draft.
If they can get even a 2nd round pick (+ maybe a 2022 conditional pick) in addition to Wentz, then it's a no brainer IMO (granted if Reich doesn't want Wentz, then buyer-beware).
It’s already gone. It’s only an issue if they aren’t sure on Hurts and need to bring in another QB at more than the vet minimum. Not likely it happens but if Hurts was the guy I wouldn’t care about the dead money, personally.
So who are they? Names?
DO golfers ever recover from the yips? Sure. But some don't.
That's a big $$$ risk.
what am i missing here?
Simply cutting him would be a net cap hit of $24M putting them approximately $88M over the cap. Trading him will actually clear about $800K in space for them putting them at $63M over.
A team with a ton of space would have to be willing to trade $24M of that space for a draft pick. The Eagles want to give up a 2nd but the thought is that $24M is more likely to need a 1st.
The Eagles are completely effed with or without Wentz. They are $64M over and not a lot of obvious moves to clear space.
Releasing the following players gets them to $43M over:
Darius Slay
Brandon Brooks
Malik Jackson
Alshon Jefferey
Zack Ertz
Desean Jackson
Isaac Seumalo
Marquise Goodwin
Rodney McLeod
Unfortunately for them the single biggest move they can make to put a dent in the cap is releasing Derek Barnett who is one of their best young players. Declining his 5th year will save them $10M
I think we need to get back to a couple of things.
1. The Eagles had great offensive line talent around him prior to this year. I think the injuries to the line are not temporary. Peters is done. Johnson seems to be breaking down (steroid use). Brooks and Kelce are in their 30's.
2. It isn't like Wentz doesn't have talent. He was the 2nd pick in the draft and proved even with point 1 that he was deserving of it. Very good arm, can run, can throw on the run and has prototypical size.
The reality is that he doesn't play every game and it is a function of how reckless he throws his body around. Even last night, he wasn't in a self preservation mode and took some big hits while trying to run.
I see 2 scenarios and it is dependent on the 1 decision by Lurie. Is the problem Wentz or Roseman/Pederson. 1 of them needs to go. I've packaged Roseman/Pederson together which I'll get to in a minute.
1. Wentz stays as Lurie views him as the franchise. I think Wentz would need to have a QB guru rebuild him as I don't think Pederson is able to. Pederson has benefited from his recklessness and you need someone to teach him to get rid of the ball quicker or throw away instead of playing hero ball. I think Roseman goes also. His drafting hasn't been great and I think he falls into the Pederson recklessness scenario. The drafting of Hurst instead of giving Wentz more talent was foolish and too cute.
2. Wentz gets traded. I think you will get something in return as QB's are at a premium and a team that isn't drafting in the top 12 but needs a QB should take a chance on him. The contract once traded can get reworked. The interesting scenario here is that say the Eagles pick in the top 8 (likely) and get a #2 for Wentz (very possible). What does the FO do? Do they go QB in round 1 or do they draft rebuild their O (with or without other trades for a bounty of picks) for Hurts?
Would be very interesting if Lurie asks Roseman at the end of the year the strategy and Roseman says to pick a QB. So you have a franchise QB, you draft another 1 in round 2 while having the franchise on a LT contract and you aren't confident in the new guy?
Maybe this is Karma. Remember all the times that the Eagles would flip a crap QB for a good draft pick?
Fletcher Cox
Brandon Graham
Brandon Brooks
Malik Jackson
Alshon Jeffrey
Marquise Goodwin
Desean Jackson
Zach Ertz
Isaac Seumalo
Of course re-structuring guys like Slay and Lane Johnson would help in the short term.
If they're looking for a fall guy,they better get the right one,because that team has deteriorated since their Superbowl.
IMO, the Colts are the best candidate but $24M is a lot to swallow even if you have $100M, so I imagine that it will take more than a 2nd.
Hell, the Jets and Jags should both consider it too. They have loads of cap space to burn and could use all the picks possible to add talent. Plus it gives them some competition and a vet leader for their (likely) rookie QBs, though if reports of Wentz being lazy are true, they may not want him to be the vet.
At the time I thought it was stupid - but maybe the FO saw this coming.
So who are they? Names?
You can make the argument that a trade like this is allocating cap to buy a day 2 pick, plus the potential of a starting QB. I really don't think its that crazy, I bet there would be a lot of interested teams especially those that aren't picking in the top 10.
They are an old and expensive 3 win team, who cares if Hurts sucks, they suck now without him playing.
I don't want the Eagles to do this simply because it will fast track their rebuild. I hope they take on Wentz' contract for atleast another season.
At the time I thought it was stupid - but maybe the FO saw this coming.
Could be that. But IMO its more likely that they greatly overestimated their talent. They had just given Wentz a monster deal, I dont see them changing their opinions on him that quickly. They thought they had space to make a luxury pick and saw Hurts as a Taysom Hill element they could introduce to the O.
Forcing the franchise QB concept is the fastest way to derail an organization. There are many QBs in the NFL that are marketed like franchise QBs, but in truth there are probably only about 5 worthy of the title (and the contract that comes with it).
Forcing the franchise QB concept is the fastest way to derail an organization. There are many QBs in the NFL that are marketed like franchise QBs, but in truth there are probably only about 5 worthy of the title (and the contract that comes with it).
+1 ... who’s on your list besides Mahomes, Rogers and Wilson?
Brees, Brady, Rivers and Ben are well past their prime, and I’m not yet sold on Watson or Dak. Lots of others in the ‘more data needed category’.
Mahomes
Rodgers
Wilson
Watson
If Baltimore would get back to using Lamar the way they did last year he might be there too, but they have some things to figure out.
But to me, those four guys are the list. IMO everyone else is either waiting to see on a guy or should be actively looking to replace who they have with someone younger and cheaper.
Fletcher Cox
Brandon Graham
Brandon Brooks
Malik Jackson
Alshon Jeffrey
Marquise Goodwin
Desean Jackson
Zach Ertz
Isaac Seumalo
Of course re-structuring guys like Slay and Lane Johnson would help in the short term.
Don, are they expected to release Ertz? I know he’s 30 but he would be a nice addition for the Giants assuming his contract demands are fair.
Mahomes
Rodgers
Wilson
Watson
If Baltimore would get back to using Lamar the way they did last year he might be there too, but they have some things to figure out.
But to me, those four guys are the list. IMO everyone else is either waiting to see on a guy or should be actively looking to replace who they have with someone younger and cheaper.
I’m sorry but Lamar Jackson is not an elite QB. He was outstanding last season but teams have learned how to defend him better by keeping him in the pocket and taking away the middle of the field and he is having a mediocre season. If he adjusts and improves throwing from the pocket and downfield then we can start discussing him as a top QB but until then I am hesitant to do so.
I’m sorry but Lamar Jackson is not an elite QB. He was outstanding last season but teams have learned how to defend him better by keeping him in the pocket and taking away the middle of the field and he is having a mediocre season. If he adjusts and improves throwing from the pocket and downfield then we can start discussing him as a top QB but until then I am hesitant to do so.
Teams/DCs have definitely made adjustments on LJax based on a over year's worth of film. And he's struggled to adjust.
No one - I mean, no one - is afraid that he can beat them with just his arm. I think he has a chance to alter that, but he needs to get to work.
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I’m sorry but Lamar Jackson is not an elite QB. He was outstanding last season but teams have learned how to defend him better by keeping him in the pocket and taking away the middle of the field and he is having a mediocre season. If he adjusts and improves throwing from the pocket and downfield then we can start discussing him as a top QB but until then I am hesitant to do so.
Teams/DCs have definitely made adjustments on LJax based on a over year's worth of film. And he's struggled to adjust.
No one - I mean, no one - is afraid that he can beat them with just his arm. I think he has a chance to alter that, but he needs to get to work.
Lamar is exactly who he was in college. A guy that consistently struggles to throw outside the numbers who needs a decompressed playbook. I remember watching him at Louisville his sophomore year and thinking what a unique talent this guy was. They did bring this up during the game though. Petrinos playbook is extremely intense. With Lamar he pretty much shrank it and built a new one around his strengths. I was on some of the football subreddits and the Ravens one all have the pitchforks out for Wink and his short stack playbook. These guys love Lamar so it’s understandable why they can’t see what’s really going on.
Teams/DCs have definitely made adjustments on LJax based on a over year's worth of film. And he's struggled to adjust.
No one - I mean, no one - is afraid that he can beat them with just his arm. I think he has a chance to alter that, but he needs to get to work.
Lamar is exactly who he was in college. A guy that consistently struggles to throw outside the numbers who needs a decompressed playbook. I remember watching him at Louisville his sophomore year and thinking what a unique talent this guy was. They did bring this up during the game though. Petrinos playbook is extremely intense. With Lamar he pretty much shrank it and built a new one around his strengths. I was on some of the football subreddits and the Ravens one all have the pitchforks out for Wink and his short stack playbook. These guys love Lamar so it’s understandable why they can’t see what’s really going on.
I remember bringing up the Petrino angle before the draft. I wasn't sure if LJax had fully digested the BP playbook or if BP shrank it (as you state).
I surmised that if Lamar did learn the full BP playbook than he could be the real deal. Because, like you suggest, that would be a real positive.
I give the Ravens a ton of credit for taking the risk to draft LJax. And then building an offense to maximize his abilities. It's a real testament to their imagination and flexibility trying to win games.
But this is a league with very smart people who eventually figure out something shiny and new and how to defend it better...