I posted a comment in another thread yesterday about how polarizing Gettleman has been here. I get the sense that the anti-Gettleman crowd has their heels dug in so much that nothing could change their opinions of him.
For full disclosure, I wanted Gettleman to be let go after the 2019 season. But, I have to be fair that I like what is developing with this team.
Andrew Thomas has improved at left tackle over the last few weeks after a slow start. Both Shane Lemieux & Matt Peart have played well. As Baldy said, the Giants have a functioning OL which include 3 rookies — that is VERY encouraging.
His 2020 FA class has been his best here by far.
Ultimately, Gettleman will be tied to Jones. The jury is still out here, and I admit I’ve been very critical of Jones. However, since the second WAS game he has played much better.
I get how moving on from Eli was tough. Admittedly, I did not want to see Eli wearing a goofy Jacksonville Jaguar helmet to finish his career. Could the Giants have managed their resources better in 18/19? Absolutely. But, let’s not pretend it’s easy to move on from franchise legends. Eli won 2x SB MVP’s with this franchise, an extremely rare accomplishment. So, I get that it’s tough to move on, and pegging that ALL on Gettleman may not be fair. This led to the Saquon pick as well which is hotly debated.
So, I guess it depends if you are willing to look past the 2018 offseason. If the rebuild started *after* Eli left the team, it doesn’t look so bad. I see a direction and plan.
Lastly, Judge plays a factor here. How much influence did he have in the 2020 offseason? What is his relationship with Gettleman?
Based on what they say, Judge & Gettleman appear to have the same team building philosophy. If DG isn’t retained, it wouldn’t make sense to bring in a GM with no prior ties to the program Judge is trying to build. If it isn’t DG, the next GM should have worked with Judge prior or at minimum be familiar with the NE program. Anything otherwise would disrupt what is being built here imo.
As for the 4-7 record, it isn’t good enough. The next 5 games are still crucial. But, this OL has held up well against a strong WAS front and that matters going forward in this division.
In short, has your opinion on DG changed at all?
So now it's year three. The arrow appears pointed up on the OL, and the Defensive front seems settled. All of the other position groups need more talent.
There have been some bad setbacks and mistakes: hiring Shurmur; whiffing on 4 DBs with 7 draft picks in 2019; picking Barkley at 2 who has struggled with injuries and is still bad at blitz pickup.
I'm not sure Jones is the guy and Gettleman basically said he drafted him because Shurmur liked him best and he was Eli-like in demeanor. I get the sense Judge likes Jones a lot (maybe its just coachspeak) and that they'll stick with him through his rookie deal and continue to build the rest of the team. But he's going to miss time with injury again this year and he has 8 TDs on the year. Hard to feel confident about him at this point.
the talent on those teams were absolutely awful. It's amazing they won 1 game with the guys they were running out there.
That's what I realized.
The jury is still out on Jones, the Barkley pick was poor draft strategy, and let's give this OL time to be good over an extended period of time before we declare problem solved.
Joining others, we haven't beat a winning team this year, last year.
The last time we really beat a winning team was 2018 in week three when we beat 0-3 Houston at the time and later in the year beat Chicago with Chase McDaniels, who basically gave us the game.
As far as I'm concerned, this season is more a reflection of outstanding coaching than any of the groceries obtained by Gettleman...
The other side of this shouldn't be acting like all is golden right now though.
We could easily, EASILY, go 0-5 and end up 4-12.
The vast majority of players were his choice (many via high picks or money), the incumbent players he kept are pretty decent, and it’s his second hand-picked staff.
At some point the goal isn’t which way the needle is pointing. A good measure would be to not lose 10+ games one of these years.
The vast majority of players were his choice (many via high picks or money), the incumbent players he kept are pretty decent, and it’s his second hand-picked staff.
At some point the goal isn’t which way the needle is pointing. A good measure would be to not lose 10+ games one of these years.
This. If the goal is to compete with WFT, then I guess Gettleman works. If the goal is to compete with KC, what reason do we have to believe Gettleman is the guy to do that?
I’d much rather a younger voice whose worked in NE (Caserio, Ossenfort, Quinn or Dimitroff) - all are familiar with the NE program and team building philosophy.
I’d much rather a younger voice whose worked in NE (Caserio, Ossenfort, Quinn or Dimitroff) - all are familiar with the NE program and team building philosophy.
I agree completely. I'd interview all three guys.
Bradberry, Martinez, maybe Sheppard and Peppers? We’ve seen free agent signings flame out after a year, so it’s a little early to chest thump about the 2020 signings.
The question has to be do you have confidence in Gettleman to build this team into a consistent contender and one that has a one or two years they can compete for a Super Bowl? If not, what’s the point of keeping him?
However, I have always been a bit surprised that you were a part of the “Jones just isn’t the guy” narrative.
I do believe many guys in this camp were just so loyal to Eli they resented Jones and it skewed their perspective of him.
I know you were ready to move on from Eli. Just curious what was the root of your impatience with Jones.
From my corner I saw a kid with great athletic ability who made mistakes common to young quarterbacks. He took a step backwards this season, but with the change in coaching staff and covid, I wasn’t surprised.
I ve been fan of the move since they drafted him, he saved the season for me last year as it was difficult to be excited about a bad team with a old quarterback.
I ve totally enjoyed this season as well, even at 0-5, I felt they were moving in the right direction.
Anyway, nice post here. My opinion, don’t think it matters what we think, DG is coming back if he wants, I m good with that.
I’d much rather a younger voice whose worked in NE (Caserio, Ossenfort, Quinn or Dimitroff) - all are familiar with the NE program and team building philosophy.
Shanahan had no relationship with Lynch. That's worked.
I do believe many guys in this camp were just so loyal to Eli they resented Jones and it skewed their perspective of him.
I know you were ready to move on from Eli. Just curious what was the root of your impatience with Jones.
From my corner I saw a kid with great athletic ability who made mistakes common to young quarterbacks. He took a step backwards this season, but with the change in coaching staff and covid, I wasn’t surprised.
I’ve always appreciated your optimism. I was in the Darnold camp in 2018 which I believe you were as well. I felt it made sense to take advantage of draft position in 2018 to draft Darnold and pair him with Shurmur going forward. As it turns out, Darnold hasn’t proven to be the guy there, but his situation sucks. I still think he can play.
As for Jones, I agree with everything you said. The play that really ticked me off with Jones was the fumble which was returned for a TD against Dallas. The inability to protect the football in combination with lack of explosive plays was my frustration. That showed up again in the TB game.
I defended the Jones selection at #6, I think the media narrative pushing Haskins was unfair. There’s a lot about Jones I like:
-He’s tough
-From all accounts seems like an excellent captain and teammate
-He can extend plays with his feet
-He’s an excellent runner
-He throws an excellent ball
I also think the jury is still out though, as we’ve seen it is dangerous to hand out a $30M/year QB contract to a player who can’t overcome the roster deficiencies that contract would cause.
But, I’ve been very encouraged with Jones the last few weeks. The play I referenced above against Dallas could have happened in WAS a few weeks back, it would have led to a loss, but Jones held onto the ball. That was huge.
I got some criticism a few weeks ago by saying I’d take Jones over Garoppolo & Mayfield, I still stand by that opinion.
I like how things are coming together.
I dont think he did it by always having been good and suddenly it shows or plays out. I think he did it by listening to more and better inputs into FA and draft selections.
I think id point to the clean out of the scouting staff as an unseen important contribution...and I hope they replace the 1-2 most replaceable scouts every year.
To me, nothing he has done is headed (with the benefit of patience to assess actual performance instead of early hot takes) to GM malpractice ( I include Williams which has not played out with all the data you need to assess and Jones which has no yet played out with all the data you need to assess).
I personally do feel (couldnt call it thinking yet) that Barkley is the decision I question the most and would least want to see a risk adjusted same size re investment in his re signing.
I say all this in the context that conversions from franchise QB's are so often long, team draining, coach killing and fraught with mis-judgements of performance of the old and the new.
To me, the biggest Giant mistakes are 5-8 years ago...not starting to replace Eli and not getting several top flight external advisors on the OL. All of a sudden in 2020 we heard of fleshing out the coaching ranks for a troubled unit and using external "consultants" like DeGuglielmo? Wow what modern concepts.
I dont think he did it by always having been good and suddenly it shows or plays out. I think he did it by listening to more and better inputs into FA and draft selections.
I think id point to the clean out of the scouting staff as an unseen important contribution...and I hope they replace the 1-2 most replaceable scouts every year.
To me, nothing he has done is headed (with the benefit of patience to assess actual performance instead of early hot takes) to GM malpractice ( I include Williams which has not played out with all the data you need to assess and Jones which has no yet played out with all the data you need to assess).
I personally do feel (couldnt call it thinking yet) that Barkley is the decision I question the most and would least want to see a risk adjusted same size re investment in his re signing.
I say all this in the context that conversions from franchise QB's are so often long, team draining, coach killing and fraught with mis-judgements of performance of the old and the new.
To me, the biggest Giant mistakes are 5-8 years ago...not starting to replace Eli and not getting several top flight external advisors on the OL. All of a sudden in 2020 we heard of fleshing out the coaching ranks for a troubled unit and using external "consultants" like DeGuglielmo? Wow what modern concepts.
I think it boils down to congratulations on getting better at collaborating and congratulations on choosing better partners to collaborate with (including the behind the scenes changes you eluded to that have been ongoing since the Petit promotion).
We are now (hopefully) past the tipping point of enough of the organization functioning at high enough levels to see results in the finished product. Directly because of the incremental improvements in process/management over the past 3 years (especially the hiring of Judge which was a leap).
The Barkley decision just depends on alternatives. If we knew the "fair trade offer" they acknowledged passing up that could be a fair criticism. As could any alternative future use of cap allocation. I do believe they chose the right player while on the clock because if there was 1 player from that draft I could magically appear on the field against Seattle it would probably still be him. Jaire Alexander or Darius Leonard would probably be in that discussion too but they weren't anywhere in the discussion back then.
I would have been happier with an OL/DL/Edge investment and a RB or WR in the 2nd round Hernandez slot
Going back to Jones...if Judge is still here ( and I hope he will be) and Jones is his guy on the intangibles then that's a heavy thumb on the scale when it comes time for a contract renewal. Good working HC/OC tandems with QB's are worth some continuity and undoing them takes a lot of psychic drain when there might be so many other ways to improve
I don't get the constant hate for Gettleman. I am a big fan of Judge. I like Jones and think he can be a franchise QB, health permitting. He has rebuilt the offensive line to where it looks to be solid. The defense has changed from a complete joke to a borderline top-10 unit. And he is two years into what was a major rebuild.
I don't agree with the narrative that the rebuild didn't begin until 2019. They looked at the qb's in 2018 and didn't like them. Three years later I think they where right.
If you look at the numbers if they cut eli they would have had to get another qb to play. There would have been very little cap savings. They decided Eli would be the bridge qb.
From the time DG was hired to the first snap the next season he turned over 37 off 53 roster spots. Thats blowing up the roster. People here think because they didn't cut Eli and draft a qb they weren't rebuilding. It's simply not true. 37 of 53. Look at what they did. Not what they said.
I would have been happier with an OL/DL/Edge investment and a RB or WR in the 2nd round Hernandez slot
Going back to Jones...if Judge is still here ( and I hope he will be) and Jones is his guy on the intangibles then that's a heavy thumb on the scale when it comes time for a contract renewal. Good working HC/OC tandems with QB's are worth some continuity and undoing them takes a lot of psychic drain when there might be so many other ways to improve
Agree across the board. During the 2017 CFB season Bradley Chubb was the guy I was hoping we'd end up in draft position to get, though when we got all the way up to #2 Barkley did ascend beyond him for me because he just checked every box with a freakish skill set. He just seemed like an all time low risk selection and the thought of pairing another game breaker with OBJ just seemed like it could create something special even if RBs are generally somewhat fungible. Nelson was also a similarly low risk prospect and OL was certainly also an appealing area to upgrade but taking a guard at 2 just never seemed likely. Perhaps it was just blind optimism that another Snee could be found in round 2 and more McKenzie/O'hara's via FA.
Something akin to the Colts trade would have been the coup but everyone wants deals like that and few find them. They did say however they received 1 fair trade offer and if truth serum were administered I think they might admit that with hindsight they should have taken that offer since the needs on the team turned out to be so numerous.
Re: Jones and Judge I think they are adjoined in an interesting way. If Judge is the real deal as a head coach I've seen enough traits to think Jones will be the real deal as QB. Not saying he'd thrive in any situation but that he is one of the guys who has enough talent to thrive in the right situation. Put him on the Chiefs with Andy Reid and he would put up some very big numbers and win a lot of games.
So if Judge is the real deal = Jones will be the real deal, it's also going to be that much easier for Judge to be a successful head coach because he has a QB. I am extremely fascinated to see how he handles the offensive staff in the offseason, especially in light of the Columbo situation.
I'm thinking he is not an example of DG hitting the mark.
I expect a little more than pedestrian starter riding the pine from a high #2 pick.
I think the best that can be said of DG is that he's clawed his way out of not being the disaster he was on the brink of being.
The improvement in the OL and the defense has me at a point where I'm at least willing to be opened minded about another year. It's still too soon to really cut Gettleman any real slack though IMO. The team is 4-7 in this third year and he shouldn't benefit from how awful the NFC East is.
Let's see the OL, and the team, play well versus some real teams. Wins over CIN, PHI and WSH are a necessary step forward but we all hoped to be beyond this point by now. Finish the year 3-2 (which would require some wins versus real teams in addition to DAL) and I'd be able to be talked into another year of Gettleman.
^^ LOL @ won't ever be
If we win the division this year and then win the SB next year. This guy will still think DG is trash.
It is fair to dislike the guy for what he has done so far.. but if he turns it around and you still cannot give him credit for that.. then your opinion at that point is really worthless.
Not the poor roster quality or misfortune of the other 3 divisional foes in 2020.
Which has occurred moreso this season?
To me, the biggest Giant mistakes are 5-8 years ago...not starting to replace Eli
I think you lay that at the feet of ownership. The loyalty the team has to iconic players often times hurts the team.
They attempted to begin easing the fans into the idea of replacing Eli. Unfortunately they went about it in the worst way (Geno) and then blamed the coach.
Meanwhile, the fans lost their minds because of some meaningless streak and their love affair for Eli. It spooked Mara into holding onto Eli even longer because of what appeared to be the biggest fan revolt since the ticket burning in the 70s.
So yeah... the fans are partly to blame for the delay in replacing Eli. Franchises do get signals from their customers on what to do and weigh that as a "part" of their decision making process.
Ben McAdoo was spot on in wanting to draft Mahommes. Ownership and the fan base were not ready for that decision. Of course, we would have had to trade up into the top 10 to make that happen.
Ben McAdoo was spot on in wanting to draft Mahommes. Ownership and the fan base were not ready for that decision. Of course, we would have had to trade up into the top 10 to make that happen.
KC traded up (w/Buffalo) from behind us in the first round to grab Mahomes. We had the same draft capital to make that happen. It was a huge missed opportunity, especially if McAdoo was indeed pushing for it.
The greatest QB in my eyes was the brilliant Joe Montana. And despite numerous SBs under his belt at the time, his coach Bill Walsh traded for Steve Young. Walsh was always looking ahead to the future. Always thinking two-three years ahead.
So if the 9ers could do that to Joe Montana there shouldn’t have been a second of hesitation to add Mahomes with Eli here.
Now KC enjoys the spoils.,..
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Ben McAdoo was spot on in wanting to draft Mahommes. Ownership and the fan base were not ready for that decision. Of course, we would have had to trade up into the top 10 to make that happen.
Like I said.. we have to place a lot of the blame on the fans because in general they make emotional decisions and not strategic decisions when they speak about what needs to be done with the team.
The hardest decisions to make are the the most difficult ones.
I truly disliked Reese and thought he was a shitty GM. However, you have to recognize that sometimes decisions are made by others and for reasons that are never revealed.
Where I blamed Reese is in this area...
He know we had a QB who was a statue in the pocket. Plus, Eli started to lose his courage in the pocket. He would chuck & duck or hit the ground when it appeared he would get hit. The ONLY way Eli would be successful at that point was if we put a solid line in front of him so he could feel comfortable and get his confidence back. We actually made the line worse during that time.. somehow. As a result, we really were not truly committed to Eli and we were not rebuilding. We were nowhere..
Absolutely not. But that's where I was heading with my post above that DG shouldn't be measured on results of the other 3 poor divisional foes, only our results.
If you told this board in September that the NYG would have 4 or 5 wins does Gettleman need to go...90% will have said yes. Irrespective of DJ's progress, if any.
If you ask this same board in December whether the 5 win Giants that finish 1 game out of first place in the NFC East...I bet that 90% that wanted to dump DG drops well below 50%.
Objective thinking?
I think the collaborative effort is severely under-rated on BBI (at least the vocal portion). I've long espoused the notion that the Giants are a group dynamic with moving parts in the group. The notion that 'GM shops for groceries and coaches cook' is waaaay over simplified.
Those of us on the outside don't know the balance levels of the group. We don't know what level of input Chris Mara has, or had, or will have. Ditto John Mara, or the coaches, or the scouts. We don't know if DG was overbearing in the decisions, and is easing up, or vice versa. He may be running things exactly the same, but the past coaching regime let him down with their inputs.
The group dynamic of the past year seems to be working, but it remains to be seen if the same will be said of it down the road (how often have we touted any given year's acquisitions as it's happening, only to watch it fall apart with age?) or whether the trend continues.
The same can be said of DG's first 2 years.
Lack of success should not be confused with lack of effort.
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or lose out, does he still deserve another year?
Absolutely not. But that's where I was heading with my post above that DG shouldn't be measured on results of the other 3 poor divisional foes, only our results.
I couldn't agree more. The goal always, unequivocally should be building toward a championship.
And the measure should be, over a period of time, has the team made the requisite progress to that end.
One of the primary boxes to check on that journey -- from time-to-time does the team beat good teams. When the Giants start doing that, I'll get behind people keeping their jobs and believing things are going well.
The same can be said of DG's first 2 years.
Lack of success should not be confused with lack of effort.
Understood.. I am simply referring to effectively putting a solid OL in front of Eli. I was not suggesting that Reese did not "attempt" to patch the OL together.
By the way, I also am on the fence as to whether Reese's selections were poor or whether it was a coaching issue. I find it very hard to believe that virtually every OL move did not produce a player who could play. Even pulling names out of a hat would yield better results.
Example - clearly the FO was collaborating with James Bettcher because they signed so many of his former players. The process flaw in that case was hiring the wrong person (Bettcher), which begot signing the wrong players, but not necessarily because of any failure in the collaboration. Though it was certainly a failure in outcome.
As we are seeing this year, the outcome has changed not necessarily because there was more collaboration but because the right person was hired. Making Graham AHC/DC was highly risky. Similar to Bettcher he brought in a bunch of his former players. Martinez' profile wasn't even all that different from Alec Ogletrees when he was cast off by the Packers after a supposed drop in performance. They were the same age. That was probably the most controversial FA signing around in here March where many (myself included) seemed to prefer Schobert or Littleton. But Judge was right, Graham was the right guy for the job, and all have been rewarded.
So net-net we've had a lot of poison fruit the last few years but it may not be coming from a fully poisonous tree. It may have just been a few poisonous branches that had to be cut off.
One of the primary boxes to check on that journey -- from time-to-time does the team beat good teams. When the Giants start doing that, I'll get behind people keeping their jobs and believing things are going well.
This team absolutely is playing better vs those good teams. We could have beaten everyone other than San Fran this year. In prior seasons we likely would have been blown out.
Some people here are unwilling to see improvement unless it is a win.. like it is a black vs white thing (win or lose). Christian, it really means you are unwilling to see improvement or unable to see it. That is really for you to decide.
If the "improvement measuring stick" is just a "W", then you do not even have to watch the games. Just check the score afterwards and make your determination.
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One of the primary boxes to check on that journey -- from time-to-time does the team beat good teams. When the Giants start doing that, I'll get behind people keeping their jobs and believing things are going well.
This team absolutely is playing better vs those good teams. We could have beaten everyone other than San Fran this year. In prior seasons we likely would have been blown out.
Some people here are unwilling to see improvement unless it is a win.. like it is a black vs white thing (win or lose). Christian, it really means you are unwilling to see improvement or unable to see it. That is really for you to decide.
If the "improvement measuring stick" is just a "W", then you do not even have to watch the games. Just check the score afterwards and make your determination.
Well said. There's irony that the "no moral victories" crowd likes to also throw cold water on actual victories.
There is improvement, but mostly the roles just flipped. Shurmur's teams were marked by decent offenses with terrible defenses, now under Judge it's the opposite. Honestly, the biggest difference between 2018-19 and this year, to me, is the special teams. Went from a major weakness to a strength.
There is improvement, but mostly the roles just flipped. Shurmur's teams were marked by decent offenses with terrible defenses, now under Judge it's the opposite. Honestly, the biggest difference between 2018-19 and this year, to me, is the special teams. Went from a major weakness to a strength.
and part of that improvement was due to the kicker getting in trouble off the field.
There is improvement, but mostly the roles just flipped. Shurmur's teams were marked by decent offenses with terrible defenses, now under Judge it's the opposite. Honestly, the biggest difference between 2018-19 and this year, to me, is the special teams. Went from a major weakness to a strength.
We also had better wins under Shurmur than any we've had under Judge.
We beat the 11-5 Texans and 12-4 Bears in 2018. It's why having close games against TB doesn't really matter to me.
The Bradberry and Martinez signings were both strong moves, especially Bradberry. The 2019 Giants defense was probably the worst Giants defense I've seen from a pure talent perspective. To turn that team into an above average unit within a year is just impressive. Obviously a lot of that credit goes to Patrick Graham, who has been awesome. But Gettleman deserves credit for improving the talent level of the defense so quickly.
This is still a mediocre football team in a historically bad division. But the foundational pieces finally seem to be coming together. There is still a long way to go in the rebuild, but progress has been made and yea it improves how I view Gettleman.
The defense is "clearly" better. There are statistical measurements to support that. 10th in point allowed and 5th in run defense. And the pass defense is up to 19th.
The offense? Stinks. We just don't score enough. YTD, we've actually gone backwards from last year in PPG (21 to 19). And that's on Jones.
Like I mentioned on the "..turn the corner..." thread, I don't get this recent praise heaped on Jones during this win streak when he's thrown 1 TD pass. One.
Well said. It’s a process. And the process really started when Beckham was traded & Jones drafted.
I would agree that the cap situation wasn't in complete disarray - but he did have to maneuver his way around an aging QB who's contract was a complete anchor.
I still think he was tasked with trying to win with Eli which, in my opinion, explains the SHurmer hire and SOlder signing...but there no way that situation he took over was a way less desirable spot that the one he's leaving (should he not be there next season).
The team is in a better place now than when he took over, but I think Christian is right in applying some balance and avoiding the superlatives.
The cap situation that DG inherited was not great, but not poor. The roster was old, yes, and the salary structure was top-heavy. That tends to go hand-in-hand with your QB's salary, and we don't need to re-litigate the Eli effect on the cap (other than to note that if DG should get a pass for 2018 because of ownership's justifiable affinity for Eli, the same pass should be extended to Reese w/r/t the cap - those are two elements of the same situation, IMO).
However, let's not try to rewrite history and pretend that DG handled the cap deftly. He took a machete to the roster, not a scalpel, and he absorbed the most dead money in the league in doing so. That is the most painful way to reshape your salary cap while rebuilding your roster. There was very little ingenuity in his moves as they relate to the cap - he simply took his medicine. To his credit, he seems to have taken as much of it at the same time as was possible, so we have very few albatross cap liabilities remaining going forward (Solder is obviously the most noteworthy one at this point). But he didn't come up with any clever ways to handle it other than the regular way that every aging team does during a rebuild.
We are 4-7 in one of the worst divisions in the history of the NFL with our wins being against the worst teams in the league playing back up QBs. That context matters. I can't say we are playing better yet.
We could so easily end up 4-12 or 5-11 with those wins coming against complete shit teams.
We also could win some and go to playoffs. You are not winning any arguments because the season still has to play out.
We could be watching a tragedy or an inspirational story.
We don't know.
Imagine what this board looks like if we lose out?
Imagine if we win a playoff game?
Hit pause before you say more dumb shit with a certainty you should not feel.
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One of the primary boxes to check on that journey -- from time-to-time does the team beat good teams. When the Giants start doing that, I'll get behind people keeping their jobs and believing things are going well.
This team absolutely is playing better vs those good teams. We could have beaten everyone other than San Fran this year. In prior seasons we likely would have been blown out.
Some people here are unwilling to see improvement unless it is a win.. like it is a black vs white thing (win or lose). Christian, it really means you are unwilling to see improvement or unable to see it. That is really for you to decide.
If the "improvement measuring stick" is just a "W", then you do not even have to watch the games. Just check the score afterwards and make your determination.
It's not black or white to me at all. Progress is definitely on a spectrum -- something like:
Beat Bad Teams > Compete with Good Teams > Beat Good Teams > Beat Good Teams Regularly
I'm fine with the argument this team is more competitive against good teams. That's a really strange conclusion to draw from my comment. Last year the Giants had several games competitive through three quarters, this year they are competitive through 4.
Like I said, to me one of the primary boxes for the GM to keep his job after 3 years is from time-to-time have a team that beats good teams. If the Giants snag one of the next 4 games, I'd bet Gettleman keeps his job. If they lose all four, I don't think it's a lock.
I cannot help but think that pick was ownership 'selling hope' to the fan base. The mob loves to grab skill player jerseys; witness all of the 26s, and before that 13s in the stadium every Sunday. DG sold it as acquisition of a building block, but I have serious doubts.
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I personally do feel (couldnt call it thinking yet) that Barkley is the decision I question the most and would least want to see a risk adjusted same size re investment in his re signing.
I cannot help but think that pick was ownership 'selling hope' to the fan base. The mob loves to grab skill player jerseys; witness all of the 26s, and before that 13s in the stadium every Sunday. DG sold it as acquisition of a building block, but I have serious doubts.
He was the consensus top ranked player in the draft and led the team with 15 TDs (he had 9 more than OBJ and 3rd most in the NFL). He also led the team in TD's and yards last year despite missing 3.5 games.
Isn't the best player on the team generally considered a building block? Are Henry, CMC, Kamara, Zeke, etc building blocks?