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NFT: Knicks Chat - Training Camp

NYG22 : 12/2/2020 9:03 am
Roster analysis:

Bigs:

Mitchell Robinson - as one of the longest, most athletic and high motor BIGs in the league, I expect (hope) major ascension up the learning curve. Reasonable stat projection: 12/10/2 in 30 min per night.

Nerlens Noel - solid back-up with many similar traits as Mitch. Reasonable stat projection: 6/4/1 in 18 min per night.

Omari Spellman - Big bodied (not in a good way) that needs to take fitness seriously to capitalize on good shooting, surprising athleticism to have a career. Otherwise, it'll quickly be over. Reasonable stat projection: Not a rotation player.

Julius Randle - will be interesting to see how Thibs mitigates the "bad" Randle which rears its ugly head whenever he over dribbles or thinks his shooting range is & gt; 15 feet. The good Julius is relegated to his rebounding, finishing and overall effort/muscle on the boards. Reasonable stat projection: 14/8 in 22 min per night.

Obi Toppin - Certainly a good "above the rim" finisher, should be a solid shooter, may be an adequate handler and secondary facilitator. The challenge for Thibs is his defense. Reasonable stat projection: 16/5 in 26 min per night.

Wings:

RJ Barrett - Very strong lefty wing with scoring savvy, particularly on the interior. Intangibles, most notably toughness, prideful work ethic are positives. Shooting, first step etc. are concerns but I don't want to be pessimistic this early. Reasonable stat projection: 20/6 in 32 min per night.

Kevin Knox - Has been a mess so far. His best path to a viable NBA career is a wing with adequate defense (haven't seen it yet), good shooting (not unreasonable) and straight line finishing skills. Still, its hard to be optimistic at this point. Reasonable stat projection: Not a rotation player.

Reggie Bullock - Good shooter, responsible defender. Probably a trade candidate in Feb. Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 18 min per night.

Frank Ntilikina - He's a wing not a lead guard. Not enough confidence or many of the other necessary traits to lead a team/offense. Could he be a Thabo Sefolosha (versatile defender, adequate catch and shoot guy)? Sure. Reasonable stat projection: 6/4/3 in 15 min per night.

Alec Burks - Interesting player that has never "taken off". He's long passed the prospect stage of his career, but he's an efficient, athletic, good sized "2". Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 15 min per night.

Austin Rivers - I have never been a fan. At his best, he's a versatile guard who can score 8 points in a quarter on a rare occasion. More typically, he's an inefficient guy with not a good enough shot to play wing and not enough facilitation skills to play point. Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 18 min per night.

Lead guard:

Elfrid Payton - Has a lot of traits (size, passing skills, ability to push tempo) that could make him an adequate lead guard. But alas, he is one of many subpar NYK shooters. Reasonable stat projection: 9/9 in 30 min per night.

Dennis Smith Jr. - At his best, he's a dunk contest candidate. He will even tease you with a drive and powerful dunk finish. Beyond this, he has no redeemable traits of a viable NBA player. He's lazy, has bad body language, doesn't shoot it well, chooses not to distribute or defend. Reasonable stat projection: He will be in the Chinese league soon.

Immanual Quickley - The diametric opposite of DSJ. Honest day's work player who will shoot, defend well. May not ever be a lead guard. But could very well be a contributing player to a winning team and have a career arc like Avery Bradley. Reasonable stat projection: 8 in 18 min per night.
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RE: 5 years,190 for Anthony Davis  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/3/2020 3:44 pm : link
In comment 15065273 ghost718 said:
Quote:
You know what that means

Lebron : Yah Mule,Yah



LeBron turns 36 later this month. Sooner or later, he is not going to be the LeBron we know. He has logged a ton of miles over the year & barely had an offseason.
Well, unfortunately, they need to make room for MKG, no?  
Anakim : 12/3/2020 3:51 pm : link
So who's the one who goes? Evans? Iggy? A 2-1 deal would make sense.
Lakers  
TyreeHelmet : 12/3/2020 4:18 pm : link
Are completely loaded. They got significantly better this offseason. Their bench could probably beat the Knicks current starting 5. Pelinka deserves a lot of credit for what he's built there. He received some criticism for that Davis trade but that one is going to be a homerun when its all said and done.
RE: Well, unfortunately, they need to make room for MKG, no?  
Strahan91 : 12/3/2020 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15065290 Anakim said:
Quote:
So who's the one who goes? Evans? Iggy? A 2-1 deal would make sense.

I believe they have to get rid of two guys. I would guess Evans and Powell. Hopefully they don't waive Iggy.
Per Lowe  
TyreeHelmet : 12/3/2020 5:10 pm : link
Knicks had no interest in Westbrook unless they were incentivized to take him.

Smart approach from Knicks.
RE: Per Lowe  
Jon in NYC : 12/3/2020 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15065330 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Knicks had no interest in Westbrook unless they were incentivized to take him.

Smart approach from Knicks.


Times they are a-changin'
Knox on Obi in the Post:  
Del Shofner : 12/3/2020 5:47 pm : link
Knox didn’t realize he was working out with a future teammate when he got together with Toppin a month before the draft in October. Knox said they have already bonded.

“He’s a freak athlete, man,’’ Knox said. “He comes in the gym eight in the morning and his first shot is a between-the-legs dunk. It was just crazy his athleticism is where it’s at now. It’s only going to continue to get better."
RE: RE: Per Lowe  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/3/2020 6:05 pm : link
In comment 15065334 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15065330 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Knicks had no interest in Westbrook unless they were incentivized to take him.

Smart approach from Knicks.



Times they are a-changin'


Woj said the same.
Greg from LI  
GMEN46 : 12/3/2020 6:39 pm : link
No one thought Mitchell would be good except fr this guy. Not sure if you guys remember but i was screaming for the Knicks to take donovan Mitchell, clearly my basketball eye s just a step above the rest
Listening to Hahn on Knicks Fan TV  
bceagle05 : 12/3/2020 9:39 pm : link
and he’s adamant that CP3 was not “Plan A” as Berman reported the other day (and stooges like Michael Kay ran with). CP3’s family stayed in LA while he was in Houston in OKC and he flew back to see them - moving closer to them was a priority unless the Knicks magically built a contender overnight.
RE: Listening to Hahn on Knicks Fan TV  
nygiants16 : 12/3/2020 9:49 pm : link
In comment 15065488 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
and he’s adamant that CP3 was not “Plan A” as Berman reported the other day (and stooges like Michael Kay ran with). CP3’s family stayed in LA while he was in Houston in OKC and he flew back to see them - moving closer to them was a priority unless the Knicks magically built a contender overnight.


He also said which is really true, beat writers are going to be mad at rose becauss Rose will never talk to them, he works in the shadows..Hahn said even as a an agent nobkdy could talk to him...only Woj you shoild trust..

Now he’s hinting at Obi at the #3.  
bceagle05 : 12/3/2020 10:24 pm : link
Sounds like trouble.
RE: Now he’s hinting at Obi at the #3.  
nygiants16 : 12/3/2020 10:28 pm : link
In comment 15065512 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Sounds like trouble.


I do think they try it..I wouldnt be shocked if next friday the starters are rivers rj obi randle mitch..

I dknt think it works and it is a different stsrting lineip for opening night
RE: Greg from LI  
Jon in NYC : 12/3/2020 10:40 pm : link
In comment 15065372 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
No one thought Mitchell would be good except fr this guy. Not sure if you guys remember but i was screaming for the Knicks to take donovan Mitchell, clearly my basketball eye s just a step above the rest



Hahaha you're such a clown. You've been nothing but wrong before and after that.
I think they have to try Obi at the 3  
Del Shofner : 12/3/2020 10:43 pm : link
to see if he and Randle can be on the court at the same time.

May or may not work but I expect them to try it.
Hahn also taking shots at previous coaches.  
bceagle05 : 12/3/2020 10:49 pm : link
“The best coaching Mitch has ever gotten was from DeAndre Jordan.”
Below is a link to the interview  
bceagle05 : 12/3/2020 11:26 pm : link
for anyone interested - good discussion all around.
Hahn/KnicksFanTV - ( New Window )
Jon in nyc  
GMEN46 : 12/3/2020 11:32 pm : link
What have I been wrong about before and after?
Obi at the 3  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 8:38 am : link
i think he can handle it offensively, he can shoot the 3, he can handle a little bit, good passer and will make the Knicks dominant on thr boards..

Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..

I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..
RE: Obi at the 3  
Heisenberg : 12/4/2020 8:51 am : link
In comment 15065617 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i think he can handle it offensively, he can shoot the 3, he can handle a little bit, good passer and will make the Knicks dominant on thr boards..

Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..

I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..



You could try it? He would have trouble staying with some wings who can really handle, I think. A better choice to get both on the floor is to maybe play one as a kind of small ball five.
RE: RE: Obi at the 3  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 9:07 am : link
In comment 15065621 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15065617 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


i think he can handle it offensively, he can shoot the 3, he can handle a little bit, good passer and will make the Knicks dominant on thr boards..

Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..

I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..




You could try it? He would have trouble staying with some wings who can really handle, I think. A better choice to get both on the floor is to maybe play one as a kind of small ball five.


Randle and Obi are a horrible fit no matter what, Obi as a small ball 5 is great offensively but defensively if you dont have 4 defenders next to Obi you are going to give up a ton of points..

I think at some points of games for small stretches you will see Obi at the 5 but not for big minutes..

If he was a better defender or rim protector him at the 5 could be awesome offensively especially with shooters and a point who can run the pick and roll
RE: 2021 Free Agents  
JB_in_DC : 12/4/2020 9:11 am : link
In comment 15065117 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Who else is left? That’s why I never understood the Knicks fascination with preserving cap space for 2021.


Cap space can be used to take on a disgruntled star who is under contract. In this market there weren't good value options - where you could reasonably expect a guy to outplay his contract, thus making him an intriguing trade asset. In that environment, no issue holding off.
Until the collective bargaining agreement is  
Carl in CT : 12/4/2020 11:04 am : link
Changed (which gives the existing team so much leverage) it’s really tough to acquire a max type player without a trade.
RE: RE: RE: Obi at the 3  
Heisenberg : 12/4/2020 11:22 am : link
In comment 15065631 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15065621 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 15065617 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


i think he can handle it offensively, he can shoot the 3, he can handle a little bit, good passer and will make the Knicks dominant on thr boards..

Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..

I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..




You could try it? He would have trouble staying with some wings who can really handle, I think. A better choice to get both on the floor is to maybe play one as a kind of small ball five.



Randle and Obi are a horrible fit no matter what, Obi as a small ball 5 is great offensively but defensively if you dont have 4 defenders next to Obi you are going to give up a ton of points..

I think at some points of games for small stretches you will see Obi at the 5 but not for big minutes..

If he was a better defender or rim protector him at the 5 could be awesome offensively especially with shooters and a point who can run the pick and roll


I think there's upside Obi as a small ball 5. He's a decent shot blocker and from my view a lot of his defensive deficiencies are more team defense and PnR defense. I think that's coachable, assuming he'll work on it. Dayton wasn't really trying to lock it down on D so it will be interesting to see if there's some room for growth from Obi. You are absolutely right he can't be left there for a lot of minutes, but depending on the matchup he might be less exposed there than at the wing, where his lateral agility might be an issue.
if one of the two plays small-ball C,  
Del Shofner : 12/4/2020 12:34 pm : link
I think it will be Randle, not Obi. Randle has done it before.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/4/2020 1:02 pm : link
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine

The NBA has officially suspended random marijuana testing for the 2020-21 season...
Problem I have with Obi at SF  
bceagle05 : 12/4/2020 1:24 pm : link
is we KNOW he's not staying there long term - we're just wasting his time there to appease Randle. I feel like we hurt RJ's development last year by putting ball hogs around him and forcing him into a catch-and-shoot role. It's the same old development versus win now mode that seems to plague this team, but we'll see how they sort it out in camp - no need to go crazy about it now.
RE: ...  
Anakim : 12/4/2020 1:28 pm : link
In comment 15065882 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine

The NBA has officially suspended random marijuana testing for the 2020-21 season...


JR Smith rejoices!
Harden still hasnt reported to Houston  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 3:11 pm : link
If you are the Knicks do you make an offer? pick loaded see if they bite? you have him for 2 mlre years to add a 2nd max to him
RE: Harden still hasnt reported to Houston  
DanMetroMan : 12/4/2020 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15065989 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
If you are the Knicks do you make an offer? pick loaded see if they bite? you have him for 2 mlre years to add a 2nd max to him


and if he pouts and asks out...?
RE: RE: Harden still hasnt reported to Houston  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15065998 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15065989 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


If you are the Knicks do you make an offer? pick loaded see if they bite? you have him for 2 mlre years to add a 2nd max to him



and if he pouts and asks out...?


Then you trade him for a bunch of picks hahaha, i dont know
lol  
DanMetroMan : 12/4/2020 3:29 pm : link
RE: lol  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15066008 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


a lot of home games by march and april i guess, maybe with limited fans? dear lord that is a rough stretch
I see 4, 5 wins  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/4/2020 3:36 pm : link
Top. JFC.
We're  
Jon in NYC : 12/4/2020 3:37 pm : link
gonna be really bad this year. Good thing it's a shortened season.
that is so weird -  
Del Shofner : 12/4/2020 3:47 pm : link
I wonder if the Knicks requested it (more home games later) in the hope that some attendance will be allowed by then.
Kyrie wont speak to media this year  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 3:49 pm : link
..
RE: that is so weird -  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15066027 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
I wonder if the Knicks requested it (more home games later) in the hope that some attendance will be allowed by then.


it is possible, i mean what is a road gsme this year? empty gyms a lot different..
RE: lol  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15066008 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


According to the Knicks press release this is not accurate
15 of first 19 on the road?  
Enzo : 12/4/2020 3:56 pm : link
WTF is that? did the circus decide to come back to MSG?
RE: 15 of first 19 on the road?  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15066037 Enzo said:
Quote:
WTF is that? did the circus decide to come back to MSG?


That is wrong
Utah, denver, oklahoma city stretch is home not away  
nygiants16 : 12/4/2020 4:00 pm : link
..
Begley somehow was  
DanMetroMan : 12/4/2020 5:20 pm : link
Given an incorrect schedule

Knicks have issued an updated version of their schedule. Original version, which was posted below, had some errors. I am deleting the tweet with the incorrect schedule. twitter.com/ianbegley/stat…Haha
RE: ...  
ghost718 : 12/4/2020 5:24 pm : link
In comment 15065882 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine

The NBA has officially suspended random marijuana testing for the 2020-21 season...


The NBA's facility for marijuana testing.I picture that as you walk into a small doctor's office,located in a random shopping center with an Applebee's,and find Michael Beasley and Chris "Bird Man" Anderson in lab coats.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/4/2020 7:30 pm : link
Just looking at the first half schedule on ESPN ...just brutal, brutal. Again, I'm hard pressed to find 5 wins.
Mitch switches agents....again.  
bceagle05 : 12/4/2020 7:59 pm : link
I believe he’s up to six.
RE: Mitch switches agents....again.  
Enzo : 12/4/2020 8:06 pm : link
In comment 15066188 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I believe he’s up to six.

it's beyond bizarre at this point. Does he expect these agents to get the Knicks to just tear up the 4 year contract he signed?
Yeah, he’s a strange bird.  
bceagle05 : 12/4/2020 8:13 pm : link
That next contract is gonna be interesting.
Not that I really care about this  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/4/2020 10:32 pm : link
but lol

RE: Not that I really care about this  
Anakim : 12/4/2020 10:43 pm : link
In comment 15066254 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
but lol



Still shocked that we didn't sign Willie Cauley-Stein
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