Roster analysis:
Bigs:
Mitchell Robinson - as one of the longest, most athletic and high motor BIGs in the league, I expect (hope) major ascension up the learning curve. Reasonable stat projection: 12/10/2 in 30 min per night.
Nerlens Noel - solid back-up with many similar traits as Mitch. Reasonable stat projection: 6/4/1 in 18 min per night.
Omari Spellman - Big bodied (not in a good way) that needs to take fitness seriously to capitalize on good shooting, surprising athleticism to have a career. Otherwise, it'll quickly be over. Reasonable stat projection: Not a rotation player.
Julius Randle - will be interesting to see how Thibs mitigates the "bad" Randle which rears its ugly head whenever he over dribbles or thinks his shooting range is & gt; 15 feet. The good Julius is relegated to his rebounding, finishing and overall effort/muscle on the boards. Reasonable stat projection: 14/8 in 22 min per night.
Obi Toppin - Certainly a good "above the rim" finisher, should be a solid shooter, may be an adequate handler and secondary facilitator. The challenge for Thibs is his defense. Reasonable stat projection: 16/5 in 26 min per night.
Wings:
RJ Barrett - Very strong lefty wing with scoring savvy, particularly on the interior. Intangibles, most notably toughness, prideful work ethic are positives. Shooting, first step etc. are concerns but I don't want to be pessimistic this early. Reasonable stat projection: 20/6 in 32 min per night.
Kevin Knox - Has been a mess so far. His best path to a viable NBA career is a wing with adequate defense (haven't seen it yet), good shooting (not unreasonable) and straight line finishing skills. Still, its hard to be optimistic at this point. Reasonable stat projection: Not a rotation player.
Reggie Bullock - Good shooter, responsible defender. Probably a trade candidate in Feb. Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 18 min per night.
Frank Ntilikina - He's a wing not a lead guard. Not enough confidence or many of the other necessary traits to lead a team/offense. Could he be a Thabo Sefolosha (versatile defender, adequate catch and shoot guy)? Sure. Reasonable stat projection: 6/4/3 in 15 min per night.
Alec Burks - Interesting player that has never "taken off". He's long passed the prospect stage of his career, but he's an efficient, athletic, good sized "2". Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 15 min per night.
Austin Rivers - I have never been a fan. At his best, he's a versatile guard who can score 8 points in a quarter on a rare occasion. More typically, he's an inefficient guy with not a good enough shot to play wing and not enough facilitation skills to play point. Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 18 min per night.
Lead guard:
Elfrid Payton - Has a lot of traits (size, passing skills, ability to push tempo) that could make him an adequate lead guard. But alas, he is one of many subpar NYK shooters. Reasonable stat projection: 9/9 in 30 min per night.
Dennis Smith Jr. - At his best, he's a dunk contest candidate. He will even tease you with a drive and powerful dunk finish. Beyond this, he has no redeemable traits of a viable NBA player. He's lazy, has bad body language, doesn't shoot it well, chooses not to distribute or defend. Reasonable stat projection: He will be in the Chinese league soon.
Immanual Quickley - The diametric opposite of DSJ. Honest day's work player who will shoot, defend well. May not ever be a lead guard. But could very well be a contributing player to a winning team and have a career arc like Avery Bradley. Reasonable stat projection: 8 in 18 min per night.
but if the 3 young players (RJB, Mitch, Obi) develop nicely
+ Quickley who should be solid
and even a surprise reclamation project of Ntilikina or one of the other disappointments
I would consider this a reasonably successful season
I think you will see an even minutes split between him and Noel.
I am afraid Tibs will over play Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, and Peyton to try and win early.
I won't be surprised if that's the starting 5.
Quickley i think will surprise people..
I think you will see an even minutes split between him and Noel.
I am afraid Tibs will over play Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, and Peyton to try and win early.
I won't be surprised if that's the starting 5.
so you think Rj and Mitch wont start?
RJ and Mitch will play all they can handle
Obi will play plenty but yeah, Randle's presence (especially given his alma mater) complicates matters
I know the lack of star power is clear to see but I truly believe this team will surprise this season. Behold the real NBA coach. The task master. Thibs is going to push these guys harder than anyone has ever pushed them and it's going to manifest into wins. Wait and see.
2021 will be even better but 2020 will be a step in the right direction.
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I am a Robinson fan but he has not shown he can stay out of foul trouble.
I think you will see an even minutes split between him and Noel.
I am afraid Tibs will over play Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, and Peyton to try and win early.
I won't be surprised if that's the starting 5.
so you think Rj and Mitch wont start?
I hope so but I don't trust Tibs not to run the Vets in the ground and not trust the younger players.
I don't think he is the right coach with a young team.
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In comment 15064000 larryflower37 said:
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I am a Robinson fan but he has not shown he can stay out of foul trouble.
I think you will see an even minutes split between him and Noel.
I am afraid Tibs will over play Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, and Peyton to try and win early.
I won't be surprised if that's the starting 5.
so you think Rj and Mitch wont start?
I hope so but I don't trust Tibs not to run the Vets in the ground and not trust the younger players.
I don't think he is the right coach with a young team.
Based on what? Thibs played Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson, butler all young guys..
This Fallacy that Thibs doesnt play youngs needa to stop, he plays the players that deserve to play, if frank, dsj, Knox cant beat out Payton, Ricers and Burkes that is on them..
Development is 25% coaching 75% on the player..
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In comment 15064000 larryflower37 said:
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I am a Robinson fan but he has not shown he can stay out of foul trouble.
I think you will see an even minutes split between him and Noel.
I am afraid Tibs will over play Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, and Peyton to try and win early.
I won't be surprised if that's the starting 5.
so you think Rj and Mitch wont start?
I hope so but I don't trust Tibs not to run the Vets in the ground and not trust the younger players.
I don't think he is the right coach with a young team.
Here is a better perspective on Thibs. He is the right coach with young players if they are smart, diligent guys. If they are the opposite, say...an Andrew Wiggins type, he doesn't do well w those guys (nor does anyone else). I expect he will love the 3 young Knicks that matter (RJB, MR, OT). You can even include Quickley in that group in terms of who he will like.
100% CORRECT
Where does that leave Toppin, though? Don't they play the same position? I know Randle can play some 5 and Toppin can probably play some 3 but I haven't heard anyone who thinks they can defend those positions well.
@ShamsCharania
Los Angeles Lakers star LeBron James has agreed to a two-year, $85 million maximum contract extension with the franchise, CEO of Klutch Sports, Rich Paul, told @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
I won't be surprised if that's the starting 5.
I'll watch about one game with that starting lineup and walk away.
@ShamsCharania
Los Angeles Lakers star LeBron James has agreed to a two-year, $85 million maximum contract extension with the franchise, CEO of Klutch Sports, Rich Paul, told @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
AD most likely signing a 4 year extension as well, but if the cap doesnt go up it is pretty much just them 2 for the next 4 years
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I am afraid Tibs will over play Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, and Peyton to try and win early.
I won't be surprised if that's the starting 5.
I'll watch about one game with that starting lineup and walk away.
Yeah, that's pretty bad. I don't think that will be the starting lineup. They'll want to start RJ and Toppin. I agree on the other three though. I'm guessing Noel-Randle-Toppin-RJ-Payton. With a short leash on the Randle-Toppin combo defensively, and Toppin getting minutes at the 4 when Randle rests.
Indeed - and its not because I don't like him. Seems like a Joe Ingles kind of personality with some skill similarities (more athletic, stronger but not the elite 3 ball). I hope recent rumors that he fell out of favor and would lose a spot to garbage like MKG are false.
Randle may start over Obi, but if they turn out to be our two best scorers, which is very possible, a 26/22 split doesn't maximize them. Either Obi is going to have to play some at the 3 (more likely) or Randle some at the 5. Maybe Obi backs up both the 4 and the 3.
While I expect RJ to be a top score, fair point that they could be two of the top three. I think Randle could get a little run at the 5, especially given both Mitch and Noel will have games with foul trouble. I really don't want to see Obi at the 3 - his defensive issues seem to get worse IMO by shifting down position. Also all of this assume no minutes for Knox at the 4 when that might be his best position, but I need to see competence from him (likely at the 3) before I get worked up over his time. Honestly 50/50 to me they exercise is fourth year option.
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Randle may start over Obi, but if they turn out to be our two best scorers, which is very possible, a 26/22 split doesn't maximize them. Either Obi is going to have to play some at the 3 (more likely) or Randle some at the 5. Maybe Obi backs up both the 4 and the 3.
While I expect RJ to be a top score, fair point that they could be two of the top three. I think Randle could get a little run at the 5, especially given both Mitch and Noel will have games with foul trouble. I really don't want to see Obi at the 3 - his defensive issues seem to get worse IMO by shifting down position. Also all of this assume no minutes for Knox at the 4 when that might be his best position, but I need to see competence from him (likely at the 3) before I get worked up over his time. Honestly 50/50 to me they exercise is fourth year option.
Unless Knox wakes up defensively he will get zero minutes, he is not good enough offensively..
I still hope Randle is willing to come off the bench but i think next frisays starting lineup is
Rivers Rj Obi Randle Mitch
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Randle may start over Obi, but if they turn out to be our two best scorers, which is very possible, a 26/22 split doesn't maximize them. Either Obi is going to have to play some at the 3 (more likely) or Randle some at the 5. Maybe Obi backs up both the 4 and the 3.
While I expect RJ to be a top score, fair point that they could be two of the top three. I think Randle could get a little run at the 5, especially given both Mitch and Noel will have games with foul trouble. I really don't want to see Obi at the 3 - his defensive issues seem to get worse IMO by shifting down position. Also all of this assume no minutes for Knox at the 4 when that might be his best position, but I need to see competence from him (likely at the 3) before I get worked up over his time. Honestly 50/50 to me they exercise is fourth year option.
Unless Knox wakes up defensively he will get zero minutes, he is not good enough offensively..
I still hope Randle is willing to come off the bench but i think next frisays starting lineup is
Rivers Rj Obi Randle Mitch
I'd go w Payton, RJ, Bullock, Randle, Mitch. And I'm not a fan of that lineup. But Bullock at least provides some spacing. Obi will get a MIN of 26 min a game though.
Why do you have Rivers over Payton (neither will be confused with Magic Johnson I realize)?
And I don't know why they drafted Toppin unless he is going to get serious minutes and Randle will not be happy sitting for the rookie. Randle should be traded.
And of course the Knicks still don't have a PG.
4-Randle
5-Robinson
3-Burks
2-RJ
1-Payton
I think the ball will be in Rjs hands..
And I don't know why they drafted Toppin unless he is going to get serious minutes and Randle will not be happy sitting for the rookie. Randle should be traded.
And of course the Knicks still don't have a PG.
Isnt this what we wanted? a few vets and a team led by the young guys?
Randle will start out as the #1 scoring option on this team.
I hope they move him at the deadline and open it up for Toppin
Makes for a long season, but it was the right play. The quick fix wasn't available to them, and I think the third year of Westbrook's contract was a deal-breaker (rightfully so). They'll take their swing next offseason in the draft and free agency - I they land outside of the top six in the draft and strike out again in free agency, the panic moves will start.
There wasn't a good FA class, so the cap space didn't help.
So lose some games, but develop players and hopefully a star comes free at the deadline or in the offseason or we just tank and get a top 5 pick in a loaded class.
I would have loved for Rose to pull off a big franchise changing move. But I'm glad he didn't overpay for fools gold like basically every Knicks GM before him for 20 years.
But for once they held tight and haven't done anything stupid yet. They hired a NBA professional coach and the new front office are NBA insiders although it remains to be seen if they can do the jobs they've signed up for.
The only chance the Knicks have to end the Dolan reign of terror is to get lucky in the draft and get to 40 wins somehow with a home grown player other NBA want to play with. They might have had that with Porzingis but that went very sour quickly. Hopefully this front office isn't as player toxic as Dolan like Jackson was.
But most of you, if not all of you, underestimate how detrimental Dolan's fascist draconian environment is when trying to recruit free agents. Every NBA player saw how Oakley and Anthony were treated by Dolan.
The star players in the most socially activist sports league in history aren't rushing to sign up to play for an owner with a media gag policy who refuses to allow the players to do a simple interview unless one of his brown shirts is hovering nearby with a recorder.
The NBA is much more than just a sports league in 2020 as you can see if you've followed what is going on in Houston.
Really? Why do we think he's any good?
That's fair - Bogie or Malik Beasley would've been solid additions for the contracts they got.
Really makes no sense why they weren't in on Bogdan. Really good player that would have fit nicely here. Very close with Giannis too if the Knicks truly want to dream...
A 4some of RJ, Robinson, FVV, and Bogdan is a nice group to build around.
DailyNews - ( New Window )
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Zhaire Smith? Hmmm. Something...fishy...
Really? Why do we think he's any good?
He was the 16th overall pick in 2018, was linked to us before we opted for Knox and is insanely athletic.
Walk to the locker room on his own but it didn't look good
Yeah it’s crazy, and a couple of the top tier guys went the G-League route and have yet to be seen.
Makes sense given the leaks about his ego lately. Sounds like he's not on board with the Knicks plan for him as a 3 and D guy. Makes sense he may need to be moved to knock some sense into him. Too bad. He had potential. Sounds like he's too much of head case though.
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
It seems like it's finally an honest to goodness rebuild, folks. Set your expectations accordingly.
I would think Thibs would love him based on his ability to guard 3 positions. I'm more concerned about if Knicks brass has soured on Robinson.
That's the rumor of the day. Ntilikina for Hield.
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Took a look at this steaming pile of shit that is our pg situation and decided hey let's bring'em all back!
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
They should have taken Flynn at 25 or kept 33 and took one there. Why in god's name would you just give away an early 2nd rounder for nothing? I'm fine with the re-build but jeez get some kind of potential upgrade. If for nothing else try something different. What is the point of taking the 30th best pg siutation in the league and keeping it exactly the same? I mean they added Quickley who could be a nice piece but I don't seem him as a full time PG.
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but Knicks had a video up of Frank working out and now they deleted it, people are speculating hes going to be traded..
I would think Thibs would love him based on his ability to guard 3 positions. I'm more concerned about if Knicks brass has soured on Robinson.
If Frank actually wants to play off the ball, he is not a point the quicker he realizes this the better off he is
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In comment 15064711 Stu11 said:
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Took a look at this steaming pile of shit that is our pg situation and decided hey let's bring'em all back!
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
They should have taken Flynn at 25 or kept 33 and took one there. Why in god's name would you just give away an early 2nd rounder for nothing? I'm fine with the re-build but jeez get some kind of potential upgrade. If for nothing else try something different. What is the point of taking the 30th best pg siutation in the league and keeping it exactly the same? I mean they added Quickley who could be a nice piece but I don't seem him as a full time PG.
they "gave away" the 2nd round pick because they didnt have a roster spot and they didnt want to waste cap space on a 2nd rounder that 9 times out of 10 busts...
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In comment 15064711 Stu11 said:
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Took a look at this steaming pile of shit that is our pg situation and decided hey let's bring'em all back!
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
They should have taken Flynn at 25 or kept 33 and took one there. Why in god's name would you just give away an early 2nd rounder for nothing? I'm fine with the re-build but jeez get some kind of potential upgrade. If for nothing else try something different. What is the point of taking the 30th best pg siutation in the league and keeping it exactly the same? I mean they added Quickley who could be a nice piece but I don't seem him as a full time PG.
well I agree that I don't like how they handled that high second round pick. Makes zero sense. But to me that's a separate issue. You're not finding a guy who can play PG right away at that spot in the draft.
they "gave away" the 2nd round pick because they didnt have a roster spot and they didnt want to waste cap space on a 2nd rounder that 9 times out of 10 busts...
agreed 2nd rounders are crap shoots, but #33 is worth a shot on a future PG no? You can find the 15th spot for that. I just don't see how you can sell a re-build and then not look to improve the most gaping hole on the roster one iota.
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they "gave away" the 2nd round pick because they didnt have a roster spot and they didnt want to waste cap space on a 2nd rounder that 9 times out of 10 busts...
agreed 2nd rounders are crap shoots, but #33 is worth a shot on a future PG no? You can find the 15th spot for that. I just don't see how you can sell a re-build and then not look to improve the most gaping hole on the roster one iota.
no lol, who were you taking at 33 who was going to start at point?
Who did you want the Knicks to bring in?
no lol, who were you taking at 33 who was going to start at point?
Who did you want the Knicks to bring in?
I already said Flynn at #25. Maybe look at Manion or Cassius Winston at 33. I'm not saying these guys would come in and play 30 minutes a night this season, but they at least have potential. I haven't looked at every option in the league but I can't believe I'm having this arguement. You think it was a superb idea to not change the PG situation at all?
I was afraid of this, because of the connection to JVG and Mitch dropping out of the US Select team stuff in 2019. To make matters worse, Thibs is praising Noel. I really just Randle traded so he does not start over Toppin.
I guess they could expand the trade. Buddy Hield and Cory Joseph for Ntilikina, Randle and Bullock works on Real GM. Maybe if we include Robinson and they include Bagley?
Back to back Loto picks- Frank and Knox. That rivals Flowers and Apple for ineptitude...Wow I can't understand why we're about to not crack 30 wins again.
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What a horrendous waste of a draft pick he was. The worst offensive guard I've ever seen.
Back to back Loto picks- Frank and Knox. That rivals Flowers and Apple for ineptitude...Wow I can't understand why we're about to not crack 30 wins again.
I said it in another thread. We have three PGs that were taken in the top-10 and we still have the worst PG situation in the NBA.
Randle - 18mm, 1 year
DSJ - 6mm, 1 year
Ntilikina - 6mm, 1 year
Sum: 30mm
Sacto gives:
Hield - 24mm, 3 years
Corey Joseph - 12mm, 1 year
Sum: 36mm (NYK has the room to absorb the diff)
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no lol, who were you taking at 33 who was going to start at point?
Who did you want the Knicks to bring in?
I already said Flynn at #25. Maybe look at Manion or Cassius Winston at 33. I'm not saying these guys would come in and play 30 minutes a night this season, but they at least have potential. I haven't looked at every option in the league but I can't believe I'm having this arguement. You think it was a superb idea to not change the PG situation at all?
Never said i am happy about the PG situation but i dont see some major upgrade they could of done in the draft or free agency..
Payton is not the greatest player in the world but he is a servicable point guard, You can play rivers there and put thr ball in Rjs hands..
It is not like they are never going to add a point guard..
If they had matched, then this would make a lot more sense.
His contract sucks though, I hope we can extract some more from SAC for taking that on. Maybe a future 1st.
I have no problem improving the team, i was on board with Paul and had even half talked myself into Russ, but to eat up a bunch of cap for Hield? At this point, id rather wait.
If they feel like they need to prod him, I can't disagree.
If they feel like they need to prod him, I can't disagree.
Really? Via the media?
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even though he's never learned not to be foul magnet.
If they feel like they need to prod him, I can't disagree.
Really? Via the media?
What was the quote in context?
“We’re very fortunate to have Nerlens Noel,” Thibodeau said. “In some ways, he’s very similar when you look at rim protection. I think he was second in the league. I also believe he was in the top five in finishing. We’re excited about both guys.”
I wouldn't be thrilled because he isn't a two way player but his elite shooting does make his contract more palatable for sure.
What was the quote in context?
Thibs was asked about working with Mitchell Robinson and initial impressions. His response:
“I think he’s had some really good moments. But I think he’s got a long way to go,” Thibodeau said of Mitchell Robinson. “The work part, the professionalism to continue to grow to impact winning, there’s a lot of room for growth. I think the discipline to practice well each and every day. I’m excited about having him here where we can get work with him each and every day. I don’t know where he’ll end up. I hate to compare him to anyone. There’s things he can do that are very unique.
“I think we’re very fortunate to have Nerlens Noel. In some ways, he’s very similar when you look at rim protection. I think he was second in the league. I also believe he was in the top five in finishing. We’re excited about both guys.”
But than again,it could've been that way from the start.
I don't think I can blame El Creepo(Rose)
But than again,it could've been that way from the start.
I don't think I can blame El Creepo(Rose)
FWIW both he and Noel have the same agent
How would Knicks fans compare Mitch Robinson to Jarrett Allen? Both guys seem to have performed at a similar level at the same age, if anything Allen seems to be more advanced since he doesn't get into foul trouble as often. Yet is seems like Knicks fans are so much higher on Robinson than Nets fans are on Allen. Is it because Robinson has more potential defensively? I like him but it definitely feels weird to see the discrepancy in the way Knicks fans rave about Robinson with how Nets fans view Allen.
How would Knicks fans compare Mitch Robinson to Jarrett Allen? Both guys seem to have performed at a similar level at the same age, if anything Allen seems to be more advanced since he doesn't get into foul trouble as often. Yet is seems like Knicks fans are so much higher on Robinson than Nets fans are on Allen. Is it because Robinson has more potential defensively? I like him but it definitely feels weird to see the discrepancy in the way Knicks fans rave about Robinson with how Nets fans view Allen.
Well there are about 5 Nets fans which I think plays a big role when it comes to hype.
Also Mitch is the superior athlete, so he's more prone to eye popping plays.
This coaching staff isn't here to baby these guys. Kenny Payne is not gonna baby Mitch. Mitch will either respond and mature or maybe he just won't.
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Not except lacking desire to get better and buying into team concept.
Still believe in him. There's nothing Gobert does that is outside of Mitch's skillset physically
He's also had bad coaching and never had a decent guard on the team. The former is likely now remedied and the latter continues to be a never-ending problem.
How would Knicks fans compare Mitch Robinson to Jarrett Allen? Both guys seem to have performed at a similar level at the same age, if anything Allen seems to be more advanced since he doesn't get into foul trouble as often. Yet is seems like Knicks fans are so much higher on Robinson than Nets fans are on Allen. Is it because Robinson has more potential defensively? I like him but it definitely feels weird to see the discrepancy in the way Knicks fans rave about Robinson with how Nets fans view Allen.
Robinson's ceiling is much higher. He's also the better player right now (minus the foul trouble issues, which I know shouldn't just be brushed off). If you look at the on/off #'s for example, Mitch's significantly impacts (positively) the game and players around him. That's not the case with Allen.
In terms of specifics, Mitch's length and athleticism allows him to quickly get out to defend the perimeter and impact shots while still being able to recover quickly enough to man the paint. Despite his raw overall feel for the game and bball IQ, his quickness and ability to move laterally is elite. I can't think of more than a handful of guys in the league who have that skillset. The importance of which is immense in today's game with all the switching and ball screens.
He's still very raw offensively but the same length and athleticism allows him to be historically efficient (this past season he broke Wilt's fg% record) as the roll man in pick and roll situations. One offense that's really his only calling card right now but with better pg play and better spacing, he'd put up much better scoring numbers.
That's to say Allen isn't a good player. He is but he doesn't have the same impact or ceiling that Mitch does. Allen struggles to finish through contact and at times gets bullied by stronger players. He's a good rebounder and shot blocker but he's not the athlete Mitch is and doesn't have the same lateral quickness so he's not stepping out to contest 3's while still manning the paint and doesn't cover for his teammates deficiencies in the same way.
@IanBegley
Obi Toppin’s performed at franchise-record levels in some agility/athleticism drills/testing early on. “Obi Toppin is beyond a freak athlete,” Austin Rivers says. “.... Just seeing him in here, my God.”;
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What was the quote in context?
Thibs was asked about working with Mitchell Robinson and initial impressions. His response:
“I think he’s had some really good moments. But I think he’s got a long way to go,” Thibodeau said of Mitchell Robinson. “The work part, the professionalism to continue to grow to impact winning, there’s a lot of room for growth. I think the discipline to practice well each and every day. I’m excited about having him here where we can get work with him each and every day. I don’t know where he’ll end up. I hate to compare him to anyone. There’s things he can do that are very unique.
“I think we’re very fortunate to have Nerlens Noel. In some ways, he’s very similar when you look at rim protection. I think he was second in the league. I also believe he was in the top five in finishing. We’re excited about both guys.”
If Mitch is put off by these words, I can't imagine him ever reaching his potential. There was nothing here to pout about from a player point of view.
Also, doesn't Thibs know him from the Olympic team? Maybe he felt like this was necessary. For all we know it's spot on and Mitch has been coasting on everyone calling him a star waiting to happen.
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In comment 15064892 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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What was the quote in context?
Thibs was asked about working with Mitchell Robinson and initial impressions. His response:
“I think he’s had some really good moments. But I think he’s got a long way to go,” Thibodeau said of Mitchell Robinson. “The work part, the professionalism to continue to grow to impact winning, there’s a lot of room for growth. I think the discipline to practice well each and every day. I’m excited about having him here where we can get work with him each and every day. I don’t know where he’ll end up. I hate to compare him to anyone. There’s things he can do that are very unique.
“I think we’re very fortunate to have Nerlens Noel. In some ways, he’s very similar when you look at rim protection. I think he was second in the league. I also believe he was in the top five in finishing. We’re excited about both guys.”
If Mitch is put off by these words, I can't imagine him ever reaching his potential. There was nothing here to pout about from a player point of view.
Also, doesn't Thibs know him from the Olympic team? Maybe he felt like this was necessary. For all we know it's spot on and Mitch has been coasting on everyone calling him a star waiting to happen.
Thibs wasn't with the Olympic team at the same time (2019). The suggestion is that Van Gundy (close with Thibs) voiced this to him.
This is why Rj and Toppin this yesr is so important..
Then next year you habe 2 1sts and 70 million to build around them
Rj and Toppin show something this year why would you take salary dumps? why not use the 70 million to put pieces that fit around them..
@IanBegley
Obi Toppin’s performed at franchise-record levels in some agility/athleticism drills/testing early on. “Obi Toppin is beyond a freak athlete,” Austin Rivers says. “.... Just seeing him in here, my God.”;
The agility report is interesting. Some here have suggested that Obi is a little lacking in that regard. If he could defend the 3, that would be big. I know it remains to be seen, though.
Giannis and Kawhi seem like pretty good fits :P
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are good fits? Generally speaking, we need guards...and I just don't see anyone that's a fit. Any major acquisitions may have to be done via trade or the draft.
Giannis and Kawhi seem like pretty good fits :P
nah, too old, lol.
Wouldn't call him a major acquisition but if they don't draft a pg, I'd be very interested in Monte Morris. I also wonder if Devontae Graham could be had (he's restricted) with a big enough offer sheet. They just drafted ball and have big money now committed to Hayward and Batum's stretched contract. Plus Rozier would still be under contract at a big number.
I can’t see Kawhi or PG leaving LA. Kawhi left a title team to live there. AD and Lebron are locked up. The rest of the free agents are much older or restricted.
Who else is left? That’s why I never understood the Knicks fascination with preserving cap space for 2021.
As for Robinson, I am still high on him and think he has the highest ceiling on the team. I think he could turn into an All Defense and possible All Star.
If we got a top pick wing you can have a lineup of MM/Wing/RJ/Obi/Mitch - same timeline, fits together fairly cleanly, etc.
I can’t see Kawhi or PG leaving LA. Kawhi left a title team to live there. AD and Lebron are locked up. The rest of the free agents are much older or restricted.
Who else is left? That’s why I never understood the Knicks fascination with preserving cap space for 2021.
As for Robinson, I am still high on him and think he has the highest ceiling on the team. I think he could turn into an All Defense and possible All Star.
I am not saying add all stars, i am saying if Rj and Toppin show all star potential add pieces around them to build a team, no more kickong the bucket down the road..
If they are ready, build around them
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How would Knicks fans compare Mitch Robinson to Jarrett Allen? Both guys seem to have performed at a similar level at the same age, if anything Allen seems to be more advanced since he doesn't get into foul trouble as often. Yet is seems like Knicks fans are so much higher on Robinson than Nets fans are on Allen. Is it because Robinson has more potential defensively? I like him but it definitely feels weird to see the discrepancy in the way Knicks fans rave about Robinson with how Nets fans view Allen.
Robinson's ceiling is much higher. He's also the better player right now (minus the foul trouble issues, which I know shouldn't just be brushed off). If you look at the on/off #'s for example, Mitch's significantly impacts (positively) the game and players around him. That's not the case with Allen.
In terms of specifics, Mitch's length and athleticism allows him to quickly get out to defend the perimeter and impact shots while still being able to recover quickly enough to man the paint. Despite his raw overall feel for the game and bball IQ, his quickness and ability to move laterally is elite. I can't think of more than a handful of guys in the league who have that skillset. The importance of which is immense in today's game with all the switching and ball screens.
He's still very raw offensively but the same length and athleticism allows him to be historically efficient (this past season he broke Wilt's fg% record) as the roll man in pick and roll situations. One offense that's really his only calling card right now but with better pg play and better spacing, he'd put up much better scoring numbers.
That's to say Allen isn't a good player. He is but he doesn't have the same impact or ceiling that Mitch does. Allen struggles to finish through contact and at times gets bullied by stronger players. He's a good rebounder and shot blocker but he's not the athlete Mitch is and doesn't have the same lateral quickness so he's not stepping out to contest 3's while still manning the paint and doesn't cover for his teammates deficiencies in the same way.
Mitch's ability to defend the perimeter is definitely impressive and I kind of expected that to be the answer. I like Mitch and definitely think he could be a stud. But his hype vs. Allen's hype being so different is just something I noticed for two pretty similar players. The fact that Nerlens Noel was pretty much a more hyped version of Robinson and ended up being a bust was also something interesting, especially with the CAA/Kentucky connection.
RJ/Mitch/Toppin, the Knicks should be more fun to watch this year. The Knicks need to go all-in with RJ Barrett and let him handle the ball more often so I kind of like the fact that they didn't get a veteran PG. It won't be a very good team, but if those young guys grow then it will be a good year for the team.
GMEN46 Batsignal just went off.
Lebron : Yah Mule,Yah
Lebron : Yah Mule,Yah
LeBron turns 36 later this month. Sooner or later, he is not going to be the LeBron we know. He has logged a ton of miles over the year & barely had an offseason.
I believe they have to get rid of two guys. I would guess Evans and Powell. Hopefully they don't waive Iggy.
Smart approach from Knicks.
Smart approach from Knicks.
Times they are a-changin'
“He’s a freak athlete, man,’’ Knox said. “He comes in the gym eight in the morning and his first shot is a between-the-legs dunk. It was just crazy his athleticism is where it’s at now. It’s only going to continue to get better."
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Knicks had no interest in Westbrook unless they were incentivized to take him.
Smart approach from Knicks.
Times they are a-changin'
Woj said the same.
He also said which is really true, beat writers are going to be mad at rose becauss Rose will never talk to them, he works in the shadows..Hahn said even as a an agent nobkdy could talk to him...only Woj you shoild trust..
I do think they try it..I wouldnt be shocked if next friday the starters are rivers rj obi randle mitch..
I dknt think it works and it is a different stsrting lineip for opening night
Hahaha you're such a clown. You've been nothing but wrong before and after that.
May or may not work but I expect them to try it.
Hahn/KnicksFanTV - ( New Window )
Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..
I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..
Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..
I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..
You could try it? He would have trouble staying with some wings who can really handle, I think. A better choice to get both on the floor is to maybe play one as a kind of small ball five.
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i think he can handle it offensively, he can shoot the 3, he can handle a little bit, good passer and will make the Knicks dominant on thr boards..
Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..
I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..
You could try it? He would have trouble staying with some wings who can really handle, I think. A better choice to get both on the floor is to maybe play one as a kind of small ball five.
Randle and Obi are a horrible fit no matter what, Obi as a small ball 5 is great offensively but defensively if you dont have 4 defenders next to Obi you are going to give up a ton of points..
I think at some points of games for small stretches you will see Obi at the 5 but not for big minutes..
If he was a better defender or rim protector him at the 5 could be awesome offensively especially with shooters and a point who can run the pick and roll
Cap space can be used to take on a disgruntled star who is under contract. In this market there weren't good value options - where you could reasonably expect a guy to outplay his contract, thus making him an intriguing trade asset. In that environment, no issue holding off.
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In comment 15065617 nygiants16 said:
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i think he can handle it offensively, he can shoot the 3, he can handle a little bit, good passer and will make the Knicks dominant on thr boards..
Defensively i dont think it will work against most teams because teams can just spread the Knicks out and kill them from 3....Teams loke the Pacers and Sixers i think they will match up better with..
I think they try it during preseason but i trust thibs that if it doesnt work he wont do it..
You could try it? He would have trouble staying with some wings who can really handle, I think. A better choice to get both on the floor is to maybe play one as a kind of small ball five.
Randle and Obi are a horrible fit no matter what, Obi as a small ball 5 is great offensively but defensively if you dont have 4 defenders next to Obi you are going to give up a ton of points..
I think at some points of games for small stretches you will see Obi at the 5 but not for big minutes..
If he was a better defender or rim protector him at the 5 could be awesome offensively especially with shooters and a point who can run the pick and roll
I think there's upside Obi as a small ball 5. He's a decent shot blocker and from my view a lot of his defensive deficiencies are more team defense and PnR defense. I think that's coachable, assuming he'll work on it. Dayton wasn't really trying to lock it down on D so it will be interesting to see if there's some room for growth from Obi. You are absolutely right he can't be left there for a lot of minutes, but depending on the matchup he might be less exposed there than at the wing, where his lateral agility might be an issue.
@TheSteinLine
The NBA has officially suspended random marijuana testing for the 2020-21 season...
@TheSteinLine
The NBA has officially suspended random marijuana testing for the 2020-21 season...
JR Smith rejoices!
and if he pouts and asks out...?
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If you are the Knicks do you make an offer? pick loaded see if they bite? you have him for 2 mlre years to add a 2nd max to him
and if he pouts and asks out...?
Then you trade him for a bunch of picks hahaha, i dont know
a lot of home games by march and april i guess, maybe with limited fans? dear lord that is a rough stretch
it is possible, i mean what is a road gsme this year? empty gyms a lot different..
According to the Knicks press release this is not accurate
That is wrong
Knicks have issued an updated version of their schedule. Original version, which was posted below, had some errors. I am deleting the tweet with the incorrect schedule. twitter.com/ianbegley/stat…Haha
@TheSteinLine
The NBA has officially suspended random marijuana testing for the 2020-21 season...
The NBA's facility for marijuana testing.I picture that as you walk into a small doctor's office,located in a random shopping center with an Applebee's,and find Michael Beasley and Chris "Bird Man" Anderson in lab coats.
it's beyond bizarre at this point. Does he expect these agents to get the Knicks to just tear up the 4 year contract he signed?
Still shocked that we didn't sign Willie Cauley-Stein