Roster analysis:
Bigs:
Mitchell Robinson - as one of the longest, most athletic and high motor BIGs in the league, I expect (hope) major ascension up the learning curve. Reasonable stat projection: 12/10/2 in 30 min per night.
Nerlens Noel - solid back-up with many similar traits as Mitch. Reasonable stat projection: 6/4/1 in 18 min per night.
Omari Spellman - Big bodied (not in a good way) that needs to take fitness seriously to capitalize on good shooting, surprising athleticism to have a career. Otherwise, it'll quickly be over. Reasonable stat projection: Not a rotation player.
Julius Randle - will be interesting to see how Thibs mitigates the "bad" Randle which rears its ugly head whenever he over dribbles or thinks his shooting range is & gt; 15 feet. The good Julius is relegated to his rebounding, finishing and overall effort/muscle on the boards. Reasonable stat projection: 14/8 in 22 min per night.
Obi Toppin - Certainly a good "above the rim" finisher, should be a solid shooter, may be an adequate handler and secondary facilitator. The challenge for Thibs is his defense. Reasonable stat projection: 16/5 in 26 min per night.
Wings:
RJ Barrett - Very strong lefty wing with scoring savvy, particularly on the interior. Intangibles, most notably toughness, prideful work ethic are positives. Shooting, first step etc. are concerns but I don't want to be pessimistic this early. Reasonable stat projection: 20/6 in 32 min per night.
Kevin Knox - Has been a mess so far. His best path to a viable NBA career is a wing with adequate defense (haven't seen it yet), good shooting (not unreasonable) and straight line finishing skills. Still, its hard to be optimistic at this point. Reasonable stat projection: Not a rotation player.
Reggie Bullock - Good shooter, responsible defender. Probably a trade candidate in Feb. Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 18 min per night.
Frank Ntilikina - He's a wing not a lead guard. Not enough confidence or many of the other necessary traits to lead a team/offense. Could he be a Thabo Sefolosha (versatile defender, adequate catch and shoot guy)? Sure. Reasonable stat projection: 6/4/3 in 15 min per night.
Alec Burks - Interesting player that has never "taken off". He's long passed the prospect stage of his career, but he's an efficient, athletic, good sized "2". Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 15 min per night.
Austin Rivers - I have never been a fan. At his best, he's a versatile guard who can score 8 points in a quarter on a rare occasion. More typically, he's an inefficient guy with not a good enough shot to play wing and not enough facilitation skills to play point. Reasonable stat projection: 7 in 18 min per night.
Lead guard:
Elfrid Payton - Has a lot of traits (size, passing skills, ability to push tempo) that could make him an adequate lead guard. But alas, he is one of many subpar NYK shooters. Reasonable stat projection: 9/9 in 30 min per night.
Dennis Smith Jr. - At his best, he's a dunk contest candidate. He will even tease you with a drive and powerful dunk finish. Beyond this, he has no redeemable traits of a viable NBA player. He's lazy, has bad body language, doesn't shoot it well, chooses not to distribute or defend. Reasonable stat projection: He will be in the Chinese league soon.
Immanual Quickley - The diametric opposite of DSJ. Honest day's work player who will shoot, defend well. May not ever be a lead guard. But could very well be a contributing player to a winning team and have a career arc like Avery Bradley. Reasonable stat projection: 8 in 18 min per night.
Yeah it’s crazy, and a couple of the top tier guys went the G-League route and have yet to be seen.
Makes sense given the leaks about his ego lately. Sounds like he's not on board with the Knicks plan for him as a 3 and D guy. Makes sense he may need to be moved to knock some sense into him. Too bad. He had potential. Sounds like he's too much of head case though.
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
It seems like it's finally an honest to goodness rebuild, folks. Set your expectations accordingly.
I would think Thibs would love him based on his ability to guard 3 positions. I'm more concerned about if Knicks brass has soured on Robinson.
That's the rumor of the day. Ntilikina for Hield.
Quote:
Took a look at this steaming pile of shit that is our pg situation and decided hey let's bring'em all back!
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
They should have taken Flynn at 25 or kept 33 and took one there. Why in god's name would you just give away an early 2nd rounder for nothing? I'm fine with the re-build but jeez get some kind of potential upgrade. If for nothing else try something different. What is the point of taking the 30th best pg siutation in the league and keeping it exactly the same? I mean they added Quickley who could be a nice piece but I don't seem him as a full time PG.
Quote:
but Knicks had a video up of Frank working out and now they deleted it, people are speculating hes going to be traded..
I would think Thibs would love him based on his ability to guard 3 positions. I'm more concerned about if Knicks brass has soured on Robinson.
If Frank actually wants to play off the ball, he is not a point the quicker he realizes this the better off he is
Quote:
In comment 15064711 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Took a look at this steaming pile of shit that is our pg situation and decided hey let's bring'em all back!
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
They should have taken Flynn at 25 or kept 33 and took one there. Why in god's name would you just give away an early 2nd rounder for nothing? I'm fine with the re-build but jeez get some kind of potential upgrade. If for nothing else try something different. What is the point of taking the 30th best pg siutation in the league and keeping it exactly the same? I mean they added Quickley who could be a nice piece but I don't seem him as a full time PG.
they "gave away" the 2nd round pick because they didnt have a roster spot and they didnt want to waste cap space on a 2nd rounder that 9 times out of 10 busts...
Quote:
In comment 15064711 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Took a look at this steaming pile of shit that is our pg situation and decided hey let's bring'em all back!
I guess you can make the argument they could have drafted a PG in the lottery, but other than that there were no good options. I'd rather run it back with Frank/Payton than do something crazy like Westbrook or Chris Paul.
They should have taken Flynn at 25 or kept 33 and took one there. Why in god's name would you just give away an early 2nd rounder for nothing? I'm fine with the re-build but jeez get some kind of potential upgrade. If for nothing else try something different. What is the point of taking the 30th best pg siutation in the league and keeping it exactly the same? I mean they added Quickley who could be a nice piece but I don't seem him as a full time PG.
well I agree that I don't like how they handled that high second round pick. Makes zero sense. But to me that's a separate issue. You're not finding a guy who can play PG right away at that spot in the draft.
they "gave away" the 2nd round pick because they didnt have a roster spot and they didnt want to waste cap space on a 2nd rounder that 9 times out of 10 busts...
agreed 2nd rounders are crap shoots, but #33 is worth a shot on a future PG no? You can find the 15th spot for that. I just don't see how you can sell a re-build and then not look to improve the most gaping hole on the roster one iota.
Quote:
they "gave away" the 2nd round pick because they didnt have a roster spot and they didnt want to waste cap space on a 2nd rounder that 9 times out of 10 busts...
agreed 2nd rounders are crap shoots, but #33 is worth a shot on a future PG no? You can find the 15th spot for that. I just don't see how you can sell a re-build and then not look to improve the most gaping hole on the roster one iota.
no lol, who were you taking at 33 who was going to start at point?
Who did you want the Knicks to bring in?
no lol, who were you taking at 33 who was going to start at point?
Who did you want the Knicks to bring in?
I already said Flynn at #25. Maybe look at Manion or Cassius Winston at 33. I'm not saying these guys would come in and play 30 minutes a night this season, but they at least have potential. I haven't looked at every option in the league but I can't believe I'm having this arguement. You think it was a superb idea to not change the PG situation at all?
I was afraid of this, because of the connection to JVG and Mitch dropping out of the US Select team stuff in 2019. To make matters worse, Thibs is praising Noel. I really just Randle traded so he does not start over Toppin.
I guess they could expand the trade. Buddy Hield and Cory Joseph for Ntilikina, Randle and Bullock works on Real GM. Maybe if we include Robinson and they include Bagley?
Back to back Loto picks- Frank and Knox. That rivals Flowers and Apple for ineptitude...Wow I can't understand why we're about to not crack 30 wins again.
Quote:
What a horrendous waste of a draft pick he was. The worst offensive guard I've ever seen.
Back to back Loto picks- Frank and Knox. That rivals Flowers and Apple for ineptitude...Wow I can't understand why we're about to not crack 30 wins again.
I said it in another thread. We have three PGs that were taken in the top-10 and we still have the worst PG situation in the NBA.
Randle - 18mm, 1 year
DSJ - 6mm, 1 year
Ntilikina - 6mm, 1 year
Sum: 30mm
Sacto gives:
Hield - 24mm, 3 years
Corey Joseph - 12mm, 1 year
Sum: 36mm (NYK has the room to absorb the diff)
Quote:
no lol, who were you taking at 33 who was going to start at point?
Who did you want the Knicks to bring in?
I already said Flynn at #25. Maybe look at Manion or Cassius Winston at 33. I'm not saying these guys would come in and play 30 minutes a night this season, but they at least have potential. I haven't looked at every option in the league but I can't believe I'm having this arguement. You think it was a superb idea to not change the PG situation at all?
Never said i am happy about the PG situation but i dont see some major upgrade they could of done in the draft or free agency..
Payton is not the greatest player in the world but he is a servicable point guard, You can play rivers there and put thr ball in Rjs hands..
It is not like they are never going to add a point guard..
If they had matched, then this would make a lot more sense.
His contract sucks though, I hope we can extract some more from SAC for taking that on. Maybe a future 1st.
I have no problem improving the team, i was on board with Paul and had even half talked myself into Russ, but to eat up a bunch of cap for Hield? At this point, id rather wait.
If they feel like they need to prod him, I can't disagree.
If they feel like they need to prod him, I can't disagree.
Really? Via the media?
Quote:
even though he's never learned not to be foul magnet.
If they feel like they need to prod him, I can't disagree.
Really? Via the media?
What was the quote in context?
“We’re very fortunate to have Nerlens Noel,” Thibodeau said. “In some ways, he’s very similar when you look at rim protection. I think he was second in the league. I also believe he was in the top five in finishing. We’re excited about both guys.”
I wouldn't be thrilled because he isn't a two way player but his elite shooting does make his contract more palatable for sure.
What was the quote in context?
Thibs was asked about working with Mitchell Robinson and initial impressions. His response:
“I think he’s had some really good moments. But I think he’s got a long way to go,” Thibodeau said of Mitchell Robinson. “The work part, the professionalism to continue to grow to impact winning, there’s a lot of room for growth. I think the discipline to practice well each and every day. I’m excited about having him here where we can get work with him each and every day. I don’t know where he’ll end up. I hate to compare him to anyone. There’s things he can do that are very unique.
“I think we’re very fortunate to have Nerlens Noel. In some ways, he’s very similar when you look at rim protection. I think he was second in the league. I also believe he was in the top five in finishing. We’re excited about both guys.”
But than again,it could've been that way from the start.
I don't think I can blame El Creepo(Rose)
But than again,it could've been that way from the start.
I don't think I can blame El Creepo(Rose)
FWIW both he and Noel have the same agent
How would Knicks fans compare Mitch Robinson to Jarrett Allen? Both guys seem to have performed at a similar level at the same age, if anything Allen seems to be more advanced since he doesn't get into foul trouble as often. Yet is seems like Knicks fans are so much higher on Robinson than Nets fans are on Allen. Is it because Robinson has more potential defensively? I like him but it definitely feels weird to see the discrepancy in the way Knicks fans rave about Robinson with how Nets fans view Allen.