| In the first half of the season, the struggles of rookie left tackle Andrew Thomas were very well-documented and outright mystifying to those who saw him play at the University of Georgia. Pro Football Focus credited him with surrendering 36 pressures and a lowly 45.3 pass blocking grade, and the eye test showed him to be a pass protection liability frequently beat by inside moves. But over the last four games, Pro Football Focus now notes that Thomas has shown significant improvement: He has allowed only eight pressures in the last four games, and his pass blocking grade has improved to 69.6. |
Nice little article on our first round draft pick.
Thomas Improvement - (
New Window )
I'd assume its over the past 4 games, either way, he's better now than he was before.
Just wait until he gives up a sack, they will all be back then.
That’s what it sounds like to me too
Quote:
"He has allowed only eight pressures in the last four games, and his pass blocking grade has improved to 69.6."
I'd assume its over the past 4 games, either way, he's better now than he was before.
The question is is it improved to overall 69.6 or just over the 4 games. My guess it's the 4 games because he'd probably need a really high average over the 4 games to get it up there overall.
1) I just saw this thead, been busy
2) I never one who said Thomas was a bust. I vertainly felt there needed to be more time before evaluating him. It is not uncommon for rookies to struggle but come on later.
3) I agree Thomas is much, much better. But he was starting from such a low bar that much, much better still leaves him in the lower 1/3 or so of starting tackles. He still has a ways to go.
I felt it was premature, and honestly it still is.
Thomas was high up on my draft wish list. And I am pleased the DG finally drafted some OL. That doesn't change my opinion of DG. Something that was obvious to a fan behind a keyboard shouldn't have taken him 3 off seasons to get around to doing.
Wk1. 53.8 PBLK/64.7 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk2. 52.5 PBLK/47.4 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk3. 51.5 PBLK/58.0 RBLK | 0 SK/2 HIT/2 HUR
Wk4. 53.0 PBLK/44.9 RBLK | 2 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk5. 31.7 PBLK/73.7 RBLK | 1 SK/0 HIT/8 HUR
Wk6. 56.2 PBLK/79.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk7. 40.2 PBLK/73.3 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk8. 72.2 PBLK/59.3 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk9. 66.4 PBLK/58.2 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/1 HUR
Wk10. 64.0 PBLK/40.0 RBLK | 1 SK/2 HIT/1 HUR
Wk12. 67.3 PBLK/59.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/0 HUR
Wk1. 53.8 PBLK/64.7 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk2. 52.5 PBLK/47.4 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk3. 51.5 PBLK/58.0 RBLK | 0 SK/2 HIT/2 HUR
Wk4. 53.0 PBLK/44.9 RBLK | 2 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk5. 31.7 PBLK/73.7 RBLK | 1 SK/0 HIT/8 HUR
Wk6. 56.2 PBLK/79.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk7. 40.2 PBLK/73.3 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk8. 72.2 PBLK/59.3 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk9. 66.4 PBLK/58.2 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/1 HUR
Wk10. 64.0 PBLK/40.0 RBLK | 1 SK/2 HIT/1 HUR
Wk12. 67.3 PBLK/59.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/0 HUR
I believe that was the first game Lemieux started. I think Lemieux has looked really good and maybe some of Thomas' improvement can be attributed to him? I think Hernandez has been absolutely atrocious this year, and imagine that hurt Thomas.
Just like, “I don’t care how we do it, I just want to be in contention by Thanksgiving!” And then, it became, “yeah but, look who we beat and we play in the NFC Least.”
I believe that was the first game Lemieux started. I think Lemieux has looked really good and maybe some of Thomas' improvement can be attributed to him? I think Hernandez has been absolutely atrocious this year, and imagine that hurt Thomas.
Good observation, that's exactly right.
EXACTLY!!
I felt it was premature, and honestly it still is.
Thomas was high up on my draft wish list. And I am pleased the DG finally drafted some OL. That doesn't change my opinion of DG. Something that was obvious to a fan behind a keyboard shouldn't have taken him 3 off seasons to get around to doing.
Mcl, you are too bright to be dark.....you make it sound like DG hasn’t been doing anything for 3 seasons fixing up the OL. Let’s look at this again...
Offseason 1, he went after Norrell in FA, but lost out. He took Solder seeing that he was the BPA. As I recall at that time, no one was moaning and groaning over him either. Plus, he played tackle, not guard, so we were happy.
2018
Solder....FA tackle
He also drafted Hernandez, who everybody loved that pick.
During the season he picked up the following:
JBrown....everyone loved, played very well
Omameh.....we weren’t sure about
Pulley.....starter on Chargers, but uncertain
Chad Wheeler....another hopeful drafted late
2019:
He picked up
MRemmers....not a bad stop gap tackle
Halapio....hopeful center, but got injured
Zeitler.....an all pro from Cleveland.
Solder and Hernandez round the line out
Gates.....was drafted, and as you can see, not a bad pick
2020
The whole world knows what he has done....nothing short of SPECTACULAR
Conclusion: If you believe he should have drafted OL in the top 3 rounds in 2018 and 2019 like he did in 2020, then that is a fair debatable point. Were the OL guys coming out those years as good as the ones we got this year? He did draft Hernandez high up in 2018 but I think maybe he didn’t draft someone high up in 2019 because he traded for Zeitler and picked up Remmers. And of course, we went DJ and Sexy Dexy in our first two picks....both huge needs too. I think we were locked into Solder and of course we all were hoping for Hernandez to improve in year 2.
But as you can see, DG was very busy in all 3 offseasons trying to firm up the Hog Mollies....it just took some time. And don’t forget, we had a ton of other pressing needs to plug in.
Lastly, I don’t think 3 years is a long time to rebuild a football team. I think the feeling was in 2018 to not rebuild but to give Eli one more chance...it didn’t work out.
My gut tells me a guy the size of Becton is destined to spend a lot of time in the training room and most likely develop some chronic issues that hold him back. I have nothing to back that up except for the fact he has already spent time on the injury list.
Quote:
Something definitely clicked Week 8 it seems.
Wk1. 53.8 PBLK/64.7 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk2. 52.5 PBLK/47.4 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk3. 51.5 PBLK/58.0 RBLK | 0 SK/2 HIT/2 HUR
Wk4. 53.0 PBLK/44.9 RBLK | 2 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk5. 31.7 PBLK/73.7 RBLK | 1 SK/0 HIT/8 HUR
Wk6. 56.2 PBLK/79.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk7. 40.2 PBLK/73.3 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk8. 72.2 PBLK/59.3 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk9. 66.4 PBLK/58.2 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/1 HUR
Wk10. 64.0 PBLK/40.0 RBLK | 1 SK/2 HIT/1 HUR
Wk12. 67.3 PBLK/59.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/0 HUR
I believe that was the first game Lemieux started. I think Lemieux has looked really good and maybe some of Thomas' improvement can be attributed to him? I think Hernandez has been absolutely atrocious this year, and imagine that hurt Thomas.
Hernandez has not been atrocious this year. Actually he was one of our best ol before getting covid. Thomas has played better because he improved his fundamentals.
Lemieux has gotten better each game but he was pretty bad the first game. Let's hope that continues.
It boggles my mind that so many people here shit on good players.
That’s clearly coaching plus reps.
Quote:
about Thomas before my post above.
I felt it was premature, and honestly it still is.
Thomas was high up on my draft wish list. And I am pleased the DG finally drafted some OL. That doesn't change my opinion of DG. Something that was obvious to a fan behind a keyboard shouldn't have taken him 3 off seasons to get around to doing.
Mcl, you are too bright to be dark.....you make it sound like DG hasn’t been doing anything for 3 seasons fixing up the OL. Let’s look at this again...
Offseason 1, he went after Norrell in FA, but lost out. He took Solder seeing that he was the BPA. As I recall at that time, no one was moaning and groaning over him either. Plus, he played tackle, not guard, so we were happy.
2018
Solder....FA tackle
He also drafted Hernandez, who everybody loved that pick.
During the season he picked up the following:
JBrown....everyone loved, played very well
Omameh.....we weren’t sure about
Pulley.....starter on Chargers, but uncertain
Chad Wheeler....another hopeful drafted late
2019:
He picked up
MRemmers....not a bad stop gap tackle
Halapio....hopeful center, but got injured
Zeitler.....an all pro from Cleveland.
Solder and Hernandez round the line out
Gates.....was drafted, and as you can see, not a bad pick
2020
The whole world knows what he has done....nothing short of SPECTACULAR
Conclusion: If you believe he should have drafted OL in the top 3 rounds in 2018 and 2019 like he did in 2020, then that is a fair debatable point. Were the OL guys coming out those years as good as the ones we got this year? He did draft Hernandez high up in 2018 but I think maybe he didn’t draft someone high up in 2019 because he traded for Zeitler and picked up Remmers. And of course, we went DJ and Sexy Dexy in our first two picks....both huge needs too. I think we were locked into Solder and of course we all were hoping for Hernandez to improve in year 2.
But as you can see, DG was very busy in all 3 offseasons trying to firm up the Hog Mollies....it just took some time. And don’t forget, we had a ton of other pressing needs to plug in.
Lastly, I don’t think 3 years is a long time to rebuild a football team. I think the feeling was in 2018 to not rebuild but to give Eli one more chance...it didn’t work out.
I've said many times that the draft is where you have to go to find good OL. Teams don't allow good OL reach FA anymore. They are too valuable.
Lets look more closely at that list of "attempts" to fix the OL.
2018: Needed to replace 100% of the OL. Wasted money on failed FA. Traded away a functional center. Got lucky on the waiver wire, and had 1 ok draft choice. Relied on non-functional players at C and RT. Both replaced (1 injured, 1 released) in season. Horrible roster construction decisions.
Norwell - a High Priced FA that has busted since then (not signed)
Solder - Signed to a horrible contract, FA Bust
Hernandez - Yay a draft pick, has been barely passable
J. Brown - Waiver pickup, lucky to get him, would have been cheap to resign, played decent, inexplicably let him walk in FA
Omameh - FA MASSIVE BUST
Gates - UDFA (not drafted), lucky signing and good development, UDFA's that make it are pure luck
Pulley - FA Bust (didn't live up to his not too expensive contract)
*Chad Wheeler was a UDFA in 2017, was not brought in by DG. However DG depended on him to man a starting tackle position. He was awful, not worth a roster spot. After years in the league the best he can do is a practice squad spot.
2019: More not very good FA, still relying on a non-functional C, wasted trade bait on a position that could have been filled by resigning a cheap J Brown. Picked up a player that played about the same and paid twice as much.
Remmers - meh, FA not very good
*Halapio was a 2016 signing, not brought in by DG. Beyond awful player. Didn't deserve an NFL roster spot. Instead DG wanted him to start. Not in the league at the moment.
Zeitler - Trade, has been average since here (we could have had J Brown and gotten about the same level of play without giving up players and less money)
*Gates was 2018 not 2019
2020 - Finally some draft pickups!!! What took so long??? That said the jury is still out, can't say it was "SPECTACULAR" yet. That's unwarranted hyperbole. Actually the best thing was dumping the old non-functional C, and getting lucky after several years of development with a UDFA. Still brought in yet another sucky FA RT.
Fleming: FA BUST
Thomas: #4 pick in the draft, hasn't lived up to draft position, but getting better and showing potential.
Peart: Has flashed, not starting but shows potential
Lemieux: Up and down, not starting, may have potential
Overall, DG's efforts have been punctuated by numerous forays into FA that busted and wasted money. Having good luck in UDFA and waivers (and either never realizing the luck, or taking years to realize the luck), And wasting trade resources when it wasn't necessary. And 3 off-seasons to finally use some draft capital and see improvement, when his first year he had the opportunity to draft multiple premium choices in the deepest OL draft in over a decade. This is hardly what I would call a good effort, or even a good faith effort. This was hot garbage until either DG realized that another OL failure would mean getting fired, or Judge realized such. Arguing that DG was making a good effort to fix the OL is a losing argument. His decision making was atrocious.
How does one live up to #4 pick draft position 11 games into his career?
Quote:
Something definitely clicked Week 8 it seems.
Wk1. 53.8 PBLK/64.7 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk2. 52.5 PBLK/47.4 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk3. 51.5 PBLK/58.0 RBLK | 0 SK/2 HIT/2 HUR
Wk4. 53.0 PBLK/44.9 RBLK | 2 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk5. 31.7 PBLK/73.7 RBLK | 1 SK/0 HIT/8 HUR
Wk6. 56.2 PBLK/79.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk7. 40.2 PBLK/73.3 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk8. 72.2 PBLK/59.3 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk9. 66.4 PBLK/58.2 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/1 HUR
Wk10. 64.0 PBLK/40.0 RBLK | 1 SK/2 HIT/1 HUR
Wk12. 67.3 PBLK/59.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/0 HUR
I believe that was the first game Lemieux started. I think Lemieux has looked really good and maybe some of Thomas' improvement can be attributed to him? I think Hernandez has been absolutely atrocious this year, and imagine that hurt Thomas.
However, this isn't isolated to Hernandez. I can't see how in the first week of starting Lemieux would have that much of a positive impact on Thomas. It has certainly helped and they are combining to make the left side pretty darn good against the run. I think OC is also a factor. Gates has steadily improved, so perhaps line calls and blocking calls have vastly improved as well.
Either way, we are starting to have the look of a very solid OL. That is why I feel it is important to get Peart in the starting lineup this year. That would leave only 1 question, in Hernandez vs. Zeitler at RG. I still think Hernandez has the potential and I like that he's younger. It would seem Zeitler really isn't in their plans and would be a likely cap casualty this off season. But, that is up to the coaches. I wouldn't mind seeing Hernandez at RG for more than a series, like last week, though.
IMO, Fleming has been bad enough that at least over the first half, he failed to live up to even that small contract. Seems to be playing a bit better lately, but that may be more a function of the competition.
Quote:
Thomas: #4 pick in the draft, hasn't lived up to draft position, but getting better and showing potential.
How does one live up to #4 pick draft position 11 games into his career?
Uh, in case you didn't notice Thomas was absolutely atrocious the first half. While I expect and can live with rookie struggles, that performance failed to live up to even the lowest bar you would set for the #4 pick in the draft. That said, I was always willing and still am willing to give him more time. Things like this happen with rookies. He has made good improvement. There needs to be more. He is playing now at a level I would expect for a #4 pick to be playing at from day 1. It just took 8 games for him to get there. Of course we all know about the issues with Columbo and Judge regarding his technique... So... Maybe the coach was the problem. Thus he gets more time.
Quote:
If you expected more than below average starter from a OT signing a 1 yr/$3.4M deal, then it's your expectations that are busted. That's low end starter/backup swing tackle money.
IMO, Fleming has been bad enough that at least over the first half, he failed to live up to even that small contract. Seems to be playing a bit better lately, but that may be more a function of the competition.
He wasn't signed with the expectation that he would be a starter.
And yes, I agree he probably felt desperation sink in this past offseason which is why we got the OL Strategy that underpinned this past draft. This was the biggest flaw in the team and his poor decisions in this area were also killing the potential careers of Barkley and Jones, his two "franchise" picks. He had to draft at least 3 O-lineman, including two Tackles and he still needed the Gates experiment to bear fruit at Center to boot. It actually had to happen...think about that.
Quite frankly, thank the lord we are seeing some improvement. But to see the progress the Giants have had this season with their OL, including Gates, and calling it "fixed" is way too premature. This line has a ways to go in terms of development before we can suggest it is a strength in run & pass. And to convert that premature thinking into the main reason to keep Gettleman on further as GM is also eye-rolling to me which has been suggested as of late.
And lastly, save me the "no GM gets every decision right" speech as well. The NYG franchise shouldn't have to rely on pure desperation just to put together a functioning Offensive Line after several years on the job. At that point I actually can't conclude the GM did anything really well...it's that he finally got lucky.
And yes, I agree he probably felt desperation sink in this past offseason which is why we got the OL Strategy that underpinned this past draft. This was the biggest flaw in the team and his poor decisions in this area were also killing the potential careers of Barkley and Jones, his two "franchise" picks. He had to draft at least 3 O-lineman, including two Tackles and he still needed the Gates experiment to bear fruit at Center to boot. It actually had to happen...think about that.
Quite frankly, thank the lord we are seeing some improvement. But to see the progress the Giants have had this season with their OL, including Gates, and calling it "fixed" is way too premature. This line has a ways to go in terms of development before we can suggest it is a strength in run & pass. And to convert that premature thinking into the main reason to keep Gettleman on further as GM is also eye-rolling to me which has been suggested as of late.
And lastly, save me the "no GM gets every decision right" speech as well. The NYG franchise shouldn't have to rely on pure desperation just to put together a functioning Offensive Line after several years on the job. At that point I actually can't conclude the GM did anything really well...it's that he finally got lucky.
Agreed LBH, the posts above are picking on picayune details and missing the bigger picture that I was trying to paint, but that you summarized well.
THe constant thought I have in my head regarding DG and the OL this year is... Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.
Quote:
I agree completely with the sentiment that Gettleman has not done well at all in his decision making with respect to this critical area. Definitely not for a lack of effort, but the process still resulted in poor decisions and results which is really all that should matter in grading DG and determining if he should be trusted further in this capacity.
And yes, I agree he probably felt desperation sink in this past offseason which is why we got the OL Strategy that underpinned this past draft. This was the biggest flaw in the team and his poor decisions in this area were also killing the potential careers of Barkley and Jones, his two "franchise" picks. He had to draft at least 3 O-lineman, including two Tackles and he still needed the Gates experiment to bear fruit at Center to boot. It actually had to happen...think about that.
Quite frankly, thank the lord we are seeing some improvement. But to see the progress the Giants have had this season with their OL, including Gates, and calling it "fixed" is way too premature. This line has a ways to go in terms of development before we can suggest it is a strength in run & pass. And to convert that premature thinking into the main reason to keep Gettleman on further as GM is also eye-rolling to me which has been suggested as of late.
And lastly, save me the "no GM gets every decision right" speech as well. The NYG franchise shouldn't have to rely on pure desperation just to put together a functioning Offensive Line after several years on the job. At that point I actually can't conclude the GM did anything really well...it's that he finally got lucky.
Agreed LBH, the posts above are picking on picayune details and missing the bigger picture that I was trying to paint, but that you summarized well.
THe constant thought I have in my head regarding DG and the OL this year is... Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.
5 nuts in 2 years in pretty good. Gates was some real digging. Thomas, Hernandez, Lemieux, Peart, Gates is not bad. And Fleming as the backup where he belongs will be fine. And for the first time in years they're a well coached unit.
Quote:
In comment 15065947 LBH15 said:
Quote:
I agree completely with the sentiment that Gettleman has not done well at all in his decision making with respect to this critical area. Definitely not for a lack of effort, but the process still resulted in poor decisions and results which is really all that should matter in grading DG and determining if he should be trusted further in this capacity.
And yes, I agree he probably felt desperation sink in this past offseason which is why we got the OL Strategy that underpinned this past draft. This was the biggest flaw in the team and his poor decisions in this area were also killing the potential careers of Barkley and Jones, his two "franchise" picks. He had to draft at least 3 O-lineman, including two Tackles and he still needed the Gates experiment to bear fruit at Center to boot. It actually had to happen...think about that.
Quite frankly, thank the lord we are seeing some improvement. But to see the progress the Giants have had this season with their OL, including Gates, and calling it "fixed" is way too premature. This line has a ways to go in terms of development before we can suggest it is a strength in run & pass. And to convert that premature thinking into the main reason to keep Gettleman on further as GM is also eye-rolling to me which has been suggested as of late.
And lastly, save me the "no GM gets every decision right" speech as well. The NYG franchise shouldn't have to rely on pure desperation just to put together a functioning Offensive Line after several years on the job. At that point I actually can't conclude the GM did anything really well...it's that he finally got lucky.
Agreed LBH, the posts above are picking on picayune details and missing the bigger picture that I was trying to paint, but that you summarized well.
THe constant thought I have in my head regarding DG and the OL this year is... Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.
5 nuts in 2 years in pretty good. Gates was some real digging. Thomas, Hernandez, Lemieux, Peart, Gates is not bad. And Fleming as the backup where he belongs will be fine. And for the first time in years they're a well coached unit.
First of all it's been 3 years, not 2. Second of all the jury is still out on the 2020 rookies. Lets talk in 2022...
Plus Hernandez and Thomas are premium picks, with Thomas an uber premium pick. Zeitler was an expensive trade deal, Those are expected to be hits. The blind squirrel was handed those nuts. So far the only nut that I can give credit for is Gates, and finding a nut among UDFAs is just pure luck. Certainly no credit for Fleming or Solder. Many thought that Flowers showed potential during his rookie year, gutting out on a bad ankle. Turns out, that was the best he ever played at T, it was downhill from there. It's possible the same happens to these rookies. I certainly hope not, but we have to wait to find out.
Much better coaching seems to be another factor. How much of the improved line play is due to coaching and how much is due to better players. I tend to think the coaching has had more impact than player quality.
By the way, Gates had not only been an improvement in the blocking aspect of C play, he clearly has been doing a much better job of calling the blocking schemes. We see far few stunts and blitzes confusing them. Hernandez and Zeitler seem to know who to block. That make a huge difference. It's why I always say that while a good left tackle is of importance 1A along the OL, C is 1B.
People were ripping Thomas as if he is Ereck flowers 2.0 by Week 2 of the season.
But hey, if we want to talk positives - we have to wait until 2022. Sounds reasonable.
By the way, Gates had not only been an improvement in the blocking aspect of C play, he clearly has been doing a much better job of calling the blocking schemes. We see far few stunts and blitzes confusing them. Hernandez and Zeitler seem to know who to block. That make a huge difference. It's why I always say that while a good left tackle is of importance 1A along the OL, C is 1B.
These guys may not be headed to the Pro Bowl, but this is the first season in years where the OL has improved during the season. Judge clearly knows how to coach by identifying and fixing problems.
People were ripping Thomas as if he is Ereck flowers 2.0 by Week 2 of the season.
But hey, if we want to talk positives - we have to wait until 2022. Sounds reasonable.
I never ripped Thomas or any of the other rookies. So you are addressing the wrong person
Quote:
drinking sand for the past decade when it come to OL play. Even below average play looks like pro bowl level to us. These guys are still performing below average, especially all the rookies. So let's not go counting the pro bowl votes for these guys before they've hatched.
By the way, Gates had not only been an improvement in the blocking aspect of C play, he clearly has been doing a much better job of calling the blocking schemes. We see far few stunts and blitzes confusing them. Hernandez and Zeitler seem to know who to block. That make a huge difference. It's why I always say that while a good left tackle is of importance 1A along the OL, C is 1B.
These guys may not be headed to the Pro Bowl, but this is the first season in years where the OL has improved during the season. Judge clearly knows how to coach by identifying and fixing problems.
I tend to agree, and I as I said, we have been wandering the desert in search of OL water for a decade... We are giddy about a few drops that are comparatively speaking like a pitcher of ambrosia.
Quote:
In comment 15065282 guitarguybs12 said:
Quote:
Something definitely clicked Week 8 it seems.
Wk1. 53.8 PBLK/64.7 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk2. 52.5 PBLK/47.4 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk3. 51.5 PBLK/58.0 RBLK | 0 SK/2 HIT/2 HUR
Wk4. 53.0 PBLK/44.9 RBLK | 2 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk5. 31.7 PBLK/73.7 RBLK | 1 SK/0 HIT/8 HUR
Wk6. 56.2 PBLK/79.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk7. 40.2 PBLK/73.3 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk8. 72.2 PBLK/59.3 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk9. 66.4 PBLK/58.2 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/1 HUR
Wk10. 64.0 PBLK/40.0 RBLK | 1 SK/2 HIT/1 HUR
Wk12. 67.3 PBLK/59.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/0 HUR
I believe that was the first game Lemieux started. I think Lemieux has looked really good and maybe some of Thomas' improvement can be attributed to him? I think Hernandez has been absolutely atrocious this year, and imagine that hurt Thomas.
Hernandez has not been atrocious this year. Actually he was one of our best ol before getting covid. Thomas has played better because he improved his fundamentals.
Lemieux has gotten better each game but he was pretty bad the first game. Let's hope that continues.
It boggles my mind that so many people here shit on good players.
I really disagree. I don't think Hernandez has been good at all - I think he's been a massive issue.
Quote:
In comment 15065282 guitarguybs12 said:
Quote:
Something definitely clicked Week 8 it seems.
Wk1. 53.8 PBLK/64.7 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk2. 52.5 PBLK/47.4 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk3. 51.5 PBLK/58.0 RBLK | 0 SK/2 HIT/2 HUR
Wk4. 53.0 PBLK/44.9 RBLK | 2 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk5. 31.7 PBLK/73.7 RBLK | 1 SK/0 HIT/8 HUR
Wk6. 56.2 PBLK/79.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk7. 40.2 PBLK/73.3 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk8. 72.2 PBLK/59.3 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk9. 66.4 PBLK/58.2 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/1 HUR
Wk10. 64.0 PBLK/40.0 RBLK | 1 SK/2 HIT/1 HUR
Wk12. 67.3 PBLK/59.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/0 HUR
I believe that was the first game Lemieux started. I think Lemieux has looked really good and maybe some of Thomas' improvement can be attributed to him? I think Hernandez has been absolutely atrocious this year, and imagine that hurt Thomas.
I agree and I also think it may have impacted Solder a little as well. It did seem that in a lot of the film breakdowns the last couple of years Hernandez wasn't just physically beaten, but making the wrong choices about who to pick up when there are multiple defenders, twists, etc.
However, this isn't isolated to Hernandez. I can't see how in the first week of starting Lemieux would have that much of a positive impact on Thomas. It has certainly helped and they are combining to make the left side pretty darn good against the run. I think OC is also a factor. Gates has steadily improved, so perhaps line calls and blocking calls have vastly improved as well.
Either way, we are starting to have the look of a very solid OL. That is why I feel it is important to get Peart in the starting lineup this year. That would leave only 1 question, in Hernandez vs. Zeitler at RG. I still think Hernandez has the potential and I like that he's younger. It would seem Zeitler really isn't in their plans and would be a likely cap casualty this off season. But, that is up to the coaches. I wouldn't mind seeing Hernandez at RG for more than a series, like last week, though.
Interesting analysis - that's a good point on Thomas.
Agreed on Peart. I'm pretty high on Gates/Lemieux, getting more excited on Thomas. I'm down on Hernandez but not writing him off.
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Talking in 2022??
People were ripping Thomas as if he is Ereck flowers 2.0 by Week 2 of the season.
But hey, if we want to talk positives - we have to wait until 2022. Sounds reasonable.
I never ripped Thomas or any of the other rookies. So you are addressing the wrong person
Just curious FMiC.
Is this you going on record as saying that you think that Thomas, Lemieux and Peart are all going to be plus starters for the Giants, and that we can determine this sooner than the end of the 2021 season?
This is a yes or no question.
If your answer is no, then that completely undermines the thrust of your post. In other words, if you answer is no, then you agree with my post are are just trying to stir up shit.
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In comment 15065947 LBH15 said:
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I agree completely with the sentiment that Gettleman has not done well at all in his decision making with respect to this critical area. Definitely not for a lack of effort, but the process still resulted in poor decisions and results which is really all that should matter in grading DG and determining if he should be trusted further in this capacity.
And yes, I agree he probably felt desperation sink in this past offseason which is why we got the OL Strategy that underpinned this past draft. This was the biggest flaw in the team and his poor decisions in this area were also killing the potential careers of Barkley and Jones, his two "franchise" picks. He had to draft at least 3 O-lineman, including two Tackles and he still needed the Gates experiment to bear fruit at Center to boot. It actually had to happen...think about that.
Quite frankly, thank the lord we are seeing some improvement. But to see the progress the Giants have had this season with their OL, including Gates, and calling it "fixed" is way too premature. This line has a ways to go in terms of development before we can suggest it is a strength in run & pass. And to convert that premature thinking into the main reason to keep Gettleman on further as GM is also eye-rolling to me which has been suggested as of late.
And lastly, save me the "no GM gets every decision right" speech as well. The NYG franchise shouldn't have to rely on pure desperation just to put together a functioning Offensive Line after several years on the job. At that point I actually can't conclude the GM did anything really well...it's that he finally got lucky.
Agreed LBH, the posts above are picking on picayune details and missing the bigger picture that I was trying to paint, but that you summarized well.
THe constant thought I have in my head regarding DG and the OL this year is... Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.
5 nuts in 2 years in pretty good. Gates was some real digging. Thomas, Hernandez, Lemieux, Peart, Gates is not bad. And Fleming as the backup where he belongs will be fine. And for the first time in years they're a well coached unit.
Yeah, not so much. I will agree with Gates as he has been a clear find for this regime. But all the free agent OL signees have been awful. Hernandez is losing his starting job to a Day 3 rookie. And Zeitler was a trade, while beneficial still weakened another area and he has shown himself to be much less than expected for his price tag.
This 2020 draft is kind of what needed to happen back in 2018. Gettleman just didn’t have things planned out well as to how to rebuild the Giants.
But that isn’t new news.
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In comment 15065966 .McL. said:
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In comment 15065947 LBH15 said:
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I agree completely with the sentiment that Gettleman has not done well at all in his decision making with respect to this critical area. Definitely not for a lack of effort, but the process still resulted in poor decisions and results which is really all that should matter in grading DG and determining if he should be trusted further in this capacity.
And yes, I agree he probably felt desperation sink in this past offseason which is why we got the OL Strategy that underpinned this past draft. This was the biggest flaw in the team and his poor decisions in this area were also killing the potential careers of Barkley and Jones, his two "franchise" picks. He had to draft at least 3 O-lineman, including two Tackles and he still needed the Gates experiment to bear fruit at Center to boot. It actually had to happen...think about that.
Quite frankly, thank the lord we are seeing some improvement. But to see the progress the Giants have had this season with their OL, including Gates, and calling it "fixed" is way too premature. This line has a ways to go in terms of development before we can suggest it is a strength in run & pass. And to convert that premature thinking into the main reason to keep Gettleman on further as GM is also eye-rolling to me which has been suggested as of late.
And lastly, save me the "no GM gets every decision right" speech as well. The NYG franchise shouldn't have to rely on pure desperation just to put together a functioning Offensive Line after several years on the job. At that point I actually can't conclude the GM did anything really well...it's that he finally got lucky.
Agreed LBH, the posts above are picking on picayune details and missing the bigger picture that I was trying to paint, but that you summarized well.
THe constant thought I have in my head regarding DG and the OL this year is... Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.
5 nuts in 2 years in pretty good. Gates was some real digging. Thomas, Hernandez, Lemieux, Peart, Gates is not bad. And Fleming as the backup where he belongs will be fine. And for the first time in years they're a well coached unit.
Yeah, not so much. I will agree with Gates as he has been a clear find for this regime. But all the free agent OL signees have been awful. Hernandez is losing his starting job to a Day 3 rookie. And Zeitler was a trade, while beneficial still weakened another area and he has shown himself to be much less than expected for his price tag.
This 2020 draft is kind of what needed to happen back in 2018. Gettleman just didn’t have things planned out well as to how to rebuild the Giants.
But that isn’t new news.