| In the first half of the season, the struggles of rookie left tackle Andrew Thomas were very well-documented and outright mystifying to those who saw him play at the University of Georgia. Pro Football Focus credited him with surrendering 36 pressures and a lowly 45.3 pass blocking grade, and the eye test showed him to be a pass protection liability frequently beat by inside moves. But over the last four games, Pro Football Focus now notes that Thomas has shown significant improvement: He has allowed only eight pressures in the last four games, and his pass blocking grade has improved to 69.6. |
Nice little article on our first round draft pick.
Thomas Improvement - (
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In comment 15066148 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Talking in 2022??
People were ripping Thomas as if he is Ereck flowers 2.0 by Week 2 of the season.
But hey, if we want to talk positives - we have to wait until 2022. Sounds reasonable.
I never ripped Thomas or any of the other rookies. So you are addressing the wrong person
Just curious FMiC.
Is this you going on record as saying that you think that Thomas, Lemieux and Peart are all going to be plus starters for the Giants, and that we can determine this sooner than the end of the 2021 season?
This is a yes or no question.
If your answer is no, then that completely undermines the thrust of your post. In other words, if you answer is no, then you agree with my post are are just trying to stir up shit.
The thrust of my post was to highlight the absurdness of you preaching waiting until 2022 to talk about the line. You certainly haven't. I don't know what you've said about the rookies, but you said that it was gross negligence to go into the season with Gates, which you are apparently chalking up now to blind luck.
I think the line looks it has the best in years. Does that mean we are assured to have a solid line? No. It means there are positives to take.
Positives you repeatedly and often shit on.
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In comment 15066165 .McL. said:
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In comment 15066148 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Talking in 2022??
People were ripping Thomas as if he is Ereck flowers 2.0 by Week 2 of the season.
But hey, if we want to talk positives - we have to wait until 2022. Sounds reasonable.
I never ripped Thomas or any of the other rookies. So you are addressing the wrong person
Just curious FMiC.
Is this you going on record as saying that you think that Thomas, Lemieux and Peart are all going to be plus starters for the Giants, and that we can determine this sooner than the end of the 2021 season?
This is a yes or no question.
If your answer is no, then that completely undermines the thrust of your post. In other words, if you answer is no, then you agree with my post are are just trying to stir up shit.
The thrust of my post was to highlight the absurdness of you preaching waiting until 2022 to talk about the line. You certainly haven't. I don't know what you've said about the rookies, but you said that it was gross negligence to go into the season with Gates, which you are apparently chalking up now to blind luck.
I think the line looks it has the best in years. Does that mean we are assured to have a solid line? No. It means there are positives to take.
Positives you repeatedly and often shit on.
You're not keeping up FMiC. I haven't shit on the line lately. I have remarked on the improvement. There is no absurdness to my post. I have been pleasantly surprised with Gates. There is hope that we may finally be putting together something decent. That has been my tone for several weeks now.
That said, it has been years of gross negligence with regards to the line. And the fact that Gates actually may work out *IS* blind luck.
That said, I am not convinced yet. So I take a measured approach. Yes there is improvement. Let's see where we are after next season.
Your response proves my point. You are just looking to stir shit up as usual.
So finally in the 3rd off-season DG does what he should have done in his first and we are supposed to praise him... Sorry, no can do.
About as far as I can is to say that, I am glad he finally came around. He is still a lousy GM. And Yes, perhaps some of his new found success has something to do with Judge. The fact that Judge may have a positive influence seems more likely than DG suddenly got a clue.
They had to do that far ahead of time ( as in avoiding FA and draft decisions to select another) and tie their professional careers to the decision.
Blind luck? Or you were just plain ass wrong?
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You’re relentless on anything dg has done with the OL yet we have what appears to be a very good young unit. Spin it any frickin way you want thems the facts. It’s been 2.5 years since DG took over not 10. Assuming this OL holds up here and stays on this trajectory you and everyone else needs to tip your hat and move the hell on. You’re treating every positive move with a negative slant. Kidding me.
So finally in the 3rd off-season DG does what he should have done in his first and we are supposed to praise him... Sorry, no can do.
About as far as I can is to say that, I am glad he finally came around. He is still a lousy GM. And Yes, perhaps some of his new found success has something to do with Judge. The fact that Judge may have a positive influence seems more likely than DG suddenly got a clue.
By the way... I take offense to you saying that
My take oin the line has been generally positive about the improvement. Specifically about Gates. In the post that FMiC responded I was praising Gates.
You guys need to learn to read what is written and not just assume that the non-cheerleaders are always negative. We are not. When we see something good we say it. The only thing is , we may take a measured approach to what it means long term.
They had to do that far ahead of time ( as in avoiding FA and draft decisions to select another) and tie their professional careers to the decision.
Blind luck? Or you were just plain ass wrong?
Bill, he was a UDFA. Any UDFA becoming a starter is blind luck. Have you read what I wrote above. I wasn't necessarily referring to just this year.
And yes, I understand that they must have seen something. He clearly flashed when he had a chance to play at tackle last year.
That said, even agreeing that they must have seen something, it is still a pretty big risk to rely on a guy who has been a backup tackle to suddenly blossom into a good starting C. C requires more intelligence than any other position on the line. Gates must have displayed superior intelligence. But still, these are very different positions, and they often don't translate. Without ever having seen him play the position under fire, it was a pretty big risk. There is some luck that the risk payed off.
I never said that keeping him hinges on OL development. I believe he is a day late and a dollar short in that department. So no. The sooner he is "retired" the better.
They had to do that far ahead of time ( as in avoiding FA and draft decisions to select another) and tie their professional careers to the decision.
Blind luck? Or you were just plain ass wrong?
You definitely have to give them credit on this one. But that is one hell of a risk...almost, what’s the word...oh, desperation.
Can’t stand Bart Scott, but maybe he is finally thinking clearly. Or at least reading the right posts on BBI.
Except they had a full FA season, a full season of waiver wire and PS squad pickings and a draft.
Many other choices. Many other days to make choices. So deliberate choice and saw it through and brought talent you and a few others did not see ( I include myself)
Feeling they had to over pay Solder?...desperation.
Thats how I see the difference between credit which stands on its own and desperation which separately stands on its own
Except they had a full FA season, a full season of waiver wire and PS squad pickings and a draft.
Many other choices. Many other days to make choices. So deliberate choice and saw it through and brought talent you and a few others did not see ( I include myself)
Feeling they had to over pay Solder?...desperation.
Thats how I see the difference between credit which stands on its own and desperation which separately stands on its own
Bill2, I partially agree with you. They saw something.
You have to admit, that a guy that never played the position under fire is a risk.
The definition of risk is that there is some luck no matter how calculated it is.
I think the credit for the decision that Gates could be an NFL center goes to one or more coaches. Certainly, developing the talent does
Why? Is the question you should look into
Why? Is the question you should look into
I don't see any pretzels
My original point was that Gates was a 2018 UDFA. Any UDFA making it is luck. Period end. I never extended that statement of luck to this year, you and others did as a way of giving DG more credit or at least trying to discredit my comment. But that wasn't what my comment was. However, as long as you are going to take there. Not only was it luck that a UDFA "made" it, relying on him as a convert T was a risk, no matter how calculated, and that also bears an element of luck.
My main comment that people are objecting to was that Gates making it from being a UDFA in the first place was luck.
Refute that without turning yourself into a pretzel.
I think both bill and McL are right on Gates. Projecting OL forward is a difficult task regardless and success lies in managing the risk / reward of it. There is a potential narrative forming that the Giants may have corrected whatever was causing them to miscalculate so badly on their choices with this unit. I think the risk / reward seemed off on Gates by the simple fact of how when struggled with these OL assessments they had a lot more film and hard data (especially directionally) on those players than they had on Gates. If their process with these evaluations has indeed been "fixed" it is easy to simply say people had their reasons for doubting the front office but they will keep proving us wrong. However, it is still premature to call anything fixed IMO, we can all agree things look more promising than they have in years. But is important to remember how easy it is to look promising vs. the absolute crap we've seen in all of recent memory.
On desperation, unless we have some insider knowledge, there is an easy case to be made for much desperation in all of DGs years here in some areas. And then too much conservatism in other areas. Regardless, desperation and innovation can look very similar sometimes and there is a long way to go to find out just how smart the Judge Giants are. IE showing we can build a quality team. We've had many years here beating other cellar dweller and we should really hold of any declarations of us having solved a problem until it is a sustained pattern vs. a short but hopeful stretch.
Somebody was trying to claim that DG had done a good job with the line from the start and listed out all his roster moves. In that post it was stated that DG deserves credit for finding Gates in the 6th round of the 2019 draft. I pointed out that Gates was a 2018 UDFA and any UDFA making it is blind luck. Like a blind squirrel finding a nut.
If there was any pretzel going on, it was the way people were twisting that context.
I think the credit for the decision that Gates could be an NFL center goes to one or more coaches. Certainly, developing the talent does
Agree with you on this...
Hope you are well
Some combination of scouts/coaches/GM for 20202 analyzed and fought for the following choices within a new selection and development process:
Thomas
Gates
Peart
Lemieux
Fleming ( maybe less so since he was an early pick at FA so that maybe had more GM influence than the rest of the process produced)
That combination included Columbo (my understanding is that he had a big thumb on the scale when it came to his favorite selections...so maybe credit needs to be extended here...I dont know for sure).
So far, the results are nowhere near ready for final judgement but are also nowhere near the results in some recent prior years.
"Luck is the residue of design" was a favorite saying of Branch Rickey. HE got a lot of credit for it. Actually, its coined by John Milton in observation of Oliver Cromwell. So about 1640-1650 or so?
In between we have Ralph Waldo Emerson: " Weak men believe in luck or in circumstance. Strong men believe in cause and effect.”
Some combination of scouts/coaches/GM for 20202 analyzed and fought for the following choices within a new selection and development process:
Thomas
Gates
Peart
Lemieux
Fleming ( maybe less so since he was an early pick at FA so that maybe had more GM influence than the rest of the process produced)
That combination included Columbo (my understanding is that he had a big thumb on the scale when it came to his favorite selections...so maybe credit needs to be extended here...I dont know for sure).
So far, the results are nowhere near ready for final judgement but are also nowhere near the results in some recent prior years.
"Luck is the residue of design" was a favorite saying of Branch Rickey. HE got a lot of credit for it. Actually, its coined by John Milton in observation of Oliver Cromwell. So about 1640-1650 or so?
In between we have Ralph Waldo Emerson: " Weak men believe in luck or in circumstance. Strong men believe in cause and effect.”
Call it what you will... A statistical anomaly...
Statistically speaking the odds of a UDFA making it to becoming a productive start are extremely low. Sure you scout and try reduce the unknown variables as much as possible, but with UDFAs there is a lot of randomness. Not to mention that the UDFAs have some choice in the matter as well. They are free to choose where they want to sign. So, having a UDFA choose us, and then developing into a solid starter doesn't speak to a high degree of design. More like throwing s**t against the wall and see what sticks. Quoting Milton and Cromwell to describe it gives that process WAYYYY too much credit. LOL.
Cause and effect...
What bits will stick is a completely different (fecal) matter.
Desperate GMs searching for stars
Sorry if I jumped to conclusions on the back half of the thread.
To be clear...I dont think DG has the same size slice of each decision like he did prior to this year.
And being right about players and developing a high percentage of them and weeding the others fast only continues the process of making people choices by consensus instead of by prior assigned authority.
Sure its not a complete democracy (known as a circle jerk at times) but there are more than enough clues that its closer to a vetted process than a sentence on the job description that the GM "Shall make all personnel decisions"
This is nowhere more apparent than in the construction of the FA deals...which are now much different and forward smart. Nowhere more obvious than years of entrenched scout job stability followed by recent distinctly aimed performance replacement ( without prior years flowery fig leaf's as if "retirement" or :will continue to consult" hid the truth). No more hidden than the number and intensity of coaches attending the off season Combine to work the hallways and backrooms for information.
Whats the biggest difference? To me, there is an old saying that what gets watched and measured gets done. And Judge seems to be watching every detail. A 10% increase in intensity and attention in a 50 person operation is a lot more productivity and a lot more effectiveness ( meaning more work product and better work product per person)
Sorry if I jumped to conclusions on the back half of the thread.
To be clear...I dont think DG has the same size slice of each decision like he did prior to this year.
And being right about players and developing a high percentage of them and weeding the others fast only continues the process of making people choices by consensus instead of by prior assigned authority.
Sure its not a complete democracy (known as a circle jerk at times) but there are more than enough clues that its closer to a vetted process than a sentence on the job description that the GM "Shall make all personnel decisions"
This is nowhere more apparent than in the construction of the FA deals...which are now much different and forward smart. Nowhere more obvious than years of entrenched scout job stability followed by recent distinctly aimed performance replacement ( without prior years flowery fig leaf's as if "retirement" or :will continue to consult" hid the truth). No more hidden than the number and intensity of coaches attending the off season Combine to work the hallways and backrooms for information.
Whats the biggest difference? To me, there is an old saying that what gets watched and measured gets done. And Judge seems to be watching every detail. A 10% increase in intensity and attention in a 50 person operation is a lot more productivity and a lot more effectiveness ( meaning more work product and better work product per person)
I'm with ya on this Bill.
And I did comment earlier that I believe that Judge is more likely having a positive influence, than it is that DG finally figured it out. The difference in the draft and the free agent signing is just too stark. Something radically different happened this year. It is a very good thing. If that kind of evaluation and decision making becomes the new hallmark of this team, we are in for some fun years in the near future. As NGD suggested, before I sign up for results like this off-season as the new normal, I want to see it repeated... Often.
You make it sound like the guy was struggling for 5 years, it was half a fucking season.
If you can't see why people wouldn't be pleased at the #4 pick looking like the worst tackle in the NFL through half the season, I don't know what to tell you. Not just a little bit of a struggle, he was atrocious.
Gates was a UDFA and a reserve backup at several positions. Hence the choice of Halapio and Pulley. That was the choice under DG
IN 2020...a very different choice was made, defended against all alternative options and successfully developed.
DG is no longer the center maypole holding up the tent. There are lots more tent poles
There is a distinct possibility that the trial already took place and the final sentence and replacement selection not yet played out. What we are supposed to see is over this season or next. What we can chose to see is that the transition is well underway. Already
Oliver Cromwell was allowed to die of natural causes but many many always knew he would also be drawn and quartered for prior crimes. And he was in fact a dead man walking since 1640...his chosen route of succession quickly replaced and he was exhumed, cut into pieces and displayed at Tyburn. The trial and the visible end of failure separated by years in Cromwell's case.
Thats why I chose to include Miltons comment about his luck and actual design when describing the mystery of still being alive
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as if the Giants deserve some kind of positive spin because we are fans. The reason there was a lot of attention paid to Thomas struggling was because it is a huge story when the #4 pick struggles like he was especially with talent at the position behind him in the draft. The #4 pick playing decently isn't really a story, it's certainly a lovely sight to see. Forgive the naysayers but for a period this year Jones and Thomas were both prime reasons for us losing which is not at all what you want from a #6 and #4 pick in back to back years.
You make it sound like the guy was struggling for 5 years, it was half a fucking season.
I think you missed te point. It has less to do with Thomas himself and more to do with the Giants org...
If you read NGD's longer post, its clear that his point is that the Giants organization has not earned to benefit of the doubt with regards to their ability to pick and develop OL.
Gates was a UDFA and a reserve backup at several positions. Hence the choice of Halapio and Pulley. That was the choice under DG
IN 2020...a very different choice was made, defended against all alternative options and successfully developed.
DG is no longer the center maypole holding up the tent. There are lots more tent poles
There is a distinct possibility that the trial already took place and the final sentence and replacement selection not yet played out. What we are supposed to see is over this season or next. What we can chose to see is that the transition is well underway. Already
Oliver Cromwell was allowed to die of natural causes but many many always knew he would also be drawn and quartered for prior crimes. And he was in fact a dead man walking since 1640...his chosen route of succession quickly replaced and he was exhumed, cut into pieces and displayed at Tyburn. The trial and the visible end of failure separated by years in Cromwell's case.
Thats why I chose to include Miltons comment about his luck and actual design when describing the mystery of still being alive
Ok...
That's good!
I have to admit, that although I know Cromwell's history, I didn't make the connection to the "dead man walking" thing. I was still focused on the past improprieties.
That said, I tend to agree that DG is GM pretty much in name only. I think he has been stripped of a large chunk of his power. He more or less said this at one point in the spring. So yeah, I see the parallel now with Cromwell.
Unfortunately, it was lost on me in the discussion of whether or not UDFAs becoming starters is more than just luck.
It could be as simple as his successor is not yet available.
It could be that he is in a new job...GM as administrator of choices the group of key influencers makes.
Or as in NE and other franchises...the GM as the person in charge of executing the general road map Belichek or owner provides.
You can be a GM and be the coordinator and not in charge of anything or be a GM that dictates when everyone will breathe
Dont know.
But things that happen in 2020 positively or negatively dont hang on DG shoulders with the weight they did in prior years.
imo
It could be as simple as his successor is not yet available.
It could be that he is in a new job...GM as administrator of choices the group of key influencers makes.
Or as in NE and other franchises...the GM as the person in charge of executing the general road map Belichek or owner provides.
You can be a GM and be the coordinator and not in charge of anything or be a GM that dictates when everyone will breathe
Dont know.
But things that happen in 2020 positively or negatively dont hang on DG shoulders with the weight they did in prior years.
imo
Cromwell only lived for a few months after his resignation. He was already in failing health due to malaria if I remember correctly.
It would seem that if DG is following the Cromwell path that his resignation should be coming shortly...
But yeah, you could tell from his pressers that he wasn't the same over confident blustery blow hard that he'd been in the past. His demeanor made it obvious that things had changed.
Marshall Ney: Why do you spend so much time designing medals?
Napoleon: Do you really think men fight for France?
I absolutely believe that coaching is the reason for this line beginning to play well. The players that make NFL rosters are pretty doggone close in ability, for the most part. Of course there are the standouts - the perennial All Pros - but by far, most OLinemen are only shades different in ability.
As far as Gates being a UDFA - players from colleges with bad programs often go unnoticed. Players from successful programs become "darlings" and then fail when they go to the NFL because their college program makes them look better than they are. Happens all the time at virtually every position. While it is rare, even UFDA QBs get over looked (i.e., Romo, Warner) even Brady was a 6th round pick.
So yes it is an anomaly for Gates to make it as a starting center(fingers crossed). But obviously DG and the staff must have seen something in his play to invite him. So is it blind luck?(doubtful) Or is it a combination of identifying physical and mental traits that could lead to an NFL lineman.
One thing we do not know, is how much the "need" to continue playing Eli lead to poor decisions personnel wise and cost them a year of reconstruction. Others have pointed in this direction and I did not necessarily agree, but in hindsight think it is an absolute possibility.
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In comment 15065286 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 15065282 guitarguybs12 said:
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Something definitely clicked Week 8 it seems.
Wk1. 53.8 PBLK/64.7 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk2. 52.5 PBLK/47.4 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk3. 51.5 PBLK/58.0 RBLK | 0 SK/2 HIT/2 HUR
Wk4. 53.0 PBLK/44.9 RBLK | 2 SK/0 HIT/4 HUR
Wk5. 31.7 PBLK/73.7 RBLK | 1 SK/0 HIT/8 HUR
Wk6. 56.2 PBLK/79.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk7. 40.2 PBLK/73.3 RBLK | 1 SK/1 HIT/3 HUR
Wk8. 72.2 PBLK/59.3 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/3 HUR
Wk9. 66.4 PBLK/58.2 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/1 HUR
Wk10. 64.0 PBLK/40.0 RBLK | 1 SK/2 HIT/1 HUR
Wk12. 67.3 PBLK/59.5 RBLK | 0 SK/0 HIT/0 HUR
I believe that was the first game Lemieux started. I think Lemieux has looked really good and maybe some of Thomas' improvement can be attributed to him? I think Hernandez has been absolutely atrocious this year, and imagine that hurt Thomas.
Hernandez has not been atrocious this year. Actually he was one of our best ol before getting covid. Thomas has played better because he improved his fundamentals.
Lemieux has gotten better each game but he was pretty bad the first game. Let's hope that continues.
It boggles my mind that so many people here shit on good players.
I really disagree. I don't think Hernandez has been good at all - I think he's been a massive issue.
He has been an above average guard. People here are pissed because they feel he should be an all pro because he was taken high in the second round.
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In comment 15065966 .McL. said:
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In comment 15065947 LBH15 said:
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I agree completely with the sentiment that Gettleman has not done well at all in his decision making with respect to this critical area. Definitely not for a lack of effort, but the process still resulted in poor decisions and results which is really all that should matter in grading DG and determining if he should be trusted further in this capacity.
And yes, I agree he probably felt desperation sink in this past offseason which is why we got the OL Strategy that underpinned this past draft. This was the biggest flaw in the team and his poor decisions in this area were also killing the potential careers of Barkley and Jones, his two "franchise" picks. He had to draft at least 3 O-lineman, including two Tackles and he still needed the Gates experiment to bear fruit at Center to boot. It actually had to happen...think about that.
Quite frankly, thank the lord we are seeing some improvement. But to see the progress the Giants have had this season with their OL, including Gates, and calling it "fixed" is way too premature. This line has a ways to go in terms of development before we can suggest it is a strength in run & pass. And to convert that premature thinking into the main reason to keep Gettleman on further as GM is also eye-rolling to me which has been suggested as of late.
And lastly, save me the "no GM gets every decision right" speech as well. The NYG franchise shouldn't have to rely on pure desperation just to put together a functioning Offensive Line after several years on the job. At that point I actually can't conclude the GM did anything really well...it's that he finally got lucky.
Agreed LBH, the posts above are picking on picayune details and missing the bigger picture that I was trying to paint, but that you summarized well.
THe constant thought I have in my head regarding DG and the OL this year is... Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.
5 nuts in 2 years in pretty good. Gates was some real digging. Thomas, Hernandez, Lemieux, Peart, Gates is not bad. And Fleming as the backup where he belongs will be fine. And for the first time in years they're a well coached unit.
Yeah, not so much. I will agree with Gates as he has been a clear find for this regime. But all the free agent OL signees have been awful. Hernandez is losing his starting job to a Day 3 rookie. And Zeitler was a trade, while beneficial still weakened another area and he has shown himself to be much less than expected for his price tag.
This 2020 draft is kind of what needed to happen back in 2018. Gettleman just didn’t have things planned out well as to how to rebuild the Giants.
But that isn’t new news.
Weakened another area? We traded a guy that was about to be cut for him. Come on googs.
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Before I notice risk...I see a guy trying to be a pretzel.
Why? Is the question you should look into
I don't see any pretzels
My original point was that Gates was a 2018 UDFA. Any UDFA making it is luck. Period end. I never extended that statement of luck to this year, you and others did as a way of giving DG more credit or at least trying to discredit my comment. But that wasn't what my comment was. However, as long as you are going to take there. Not only was it luck that a UDFA "made" it, relying on him as a convert T was a risk, no matter how calculated, and that also bears an element of luck.
My main comment that people are objecting to was that Gates making it from being a UDFA in the first place was luck.
Refute that without turning yourself into a pretzel.
If DG didn't have a history of finding late draft picks and UDFA you might have a point. But he does have a track record of doing just that. Maybe DG is just good at finding hidden gems along the OL.....
Orchestrate a trade down from overall #2, accumulate extra picks and do it. This is how you efficiently rebuild broken teams.
I presume decent OL were available after #2 spot, so I will let you hypothetically determine who was worthy if it matters.
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Drafted 3 ol in 2018? Okay please tell us which players he should have drafted then.
Orchestrate a trade down from overall #2, accumulate extra picks and do it. This is how you efficiently rebuild broken teams.
I presume decent OL were available after #2 spot, so I will let you hypothetically determine who was worthy if it matters.
It wouldn’t have mattered b/c Shurmur and his staff did a poor job of coaching the OL. No one on his staff, and not Shurmur, has anything close to the level of detail that Judge has.
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Drafted 3 ol in 2018? Okay please tell us which players he should have drafted then.
Orchestrate a trade down from overall #2, accumulate extra picks and do it. This is how you efficiently rebuild broken teams.
I presume decent OL were available after #2 spot, so I will let you hypothetically determine who was worthy if it matters.
And if there are no trades to be had? My point is you don't go into a draft with the mindset that I have to get X amount of OL this year. And you don't make a bad trade just to trade.
You do realize that there were other parts of the needed help too.
As to the giants changing the process in how players are chosen. It seams clear that there is a new process. What's not clear is who began/ made the changes. It's assumed here that it Was Judge. But if you go back to DG's first year press conference he talked about changing how the scouts scout. Creating communication between the scouts and coaches. Creating a new computer system to handle the information. Mara mentioned this as one of the reasons for keeping him this season. Ownership felt it was better to let him finish the job.
I don't know if these new systems came from DG or JJ. But there is some evidence that it started with DG.
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In comment 15066321 fireitup77 said:
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Drafted 3 ol in 2018? Okay please tell us which players he should have drafted then.
Orchestrate a trade down from overall #2, accumulate extra picks and do it. This is how you efficiently rebuild broken teams.
I presume decent OL were available after #2 spot, so I will let you hypothetically determine who was worthy if it matters.
And if there are no trades to be had? My point is you don't go into a draft with the mindset that I have to get X amount of OL this year. And you don't make a bad trade just to trade.
You do realize that there were other parts of the needed help too.
Go research whether DG had a trade available to him and whether it was reasonable.
And yes, lots of parts were needed...so that is why you accumulate picks. Assuming OL could be some portion of them.
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In comment 15066324 LBH15 said:
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In comment 15066321 fireitup77 said:
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Drafted 3 ol in 2018? Okay please tell us which players he should have drafted then.
Orchestrate a trade down from overall #2, accumulate extra picks and do it. This is how you efficiently rebuild broken teams.
I presume decent OL were available after #2 spot, so I will let you hypothetically determine who was worthy if it matters.
And if there are no trades to be had? My point is you don't go into a draft with the mindset that I have to get X amount of OL this year. And you don't make a bad trade just to trade.
You do realize that there were other parts of the needed help too.
Go research whether DG had a trade available to him and whether it was reasonable.
And yes, lots of parts were needed...so that is why you accumulate picks. Assuming OL could be some portion of them.
And like I said you don't trade just to trade. There were no offers of value.
The real test is whether Thomas is better than the three other OL that were being ranked in that area (or as good if one of the others is excellent). That’s the test of real success.