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NFT: McCann rumored to Mets

Gmanfandan : 12/3/2020 4:44 pm
Robert Murray
@ByRobertMurray
Mets in active talks with free-agent catcher James McCann, according to league sources. A deal is not yet close, but it is looking increasingly likely he will land a four-year deal.
1:27 PM · Dec 3, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

Does this open the door for BOTH Springer and Bauer? 4 seems too many... thoughts Metsies?
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I think they're going to get Springer done  
allstarjim : 12/3/2020 5:17 pm : link
But I'm not so sure about Bauer.

Thinking maybe a trade for a starter. I just don't see them getting both.

If they can close the McCann deal, that's huge.
All in for McCann and Springer  
Chris684 : 12/3/2020 5:19 pm : link
That would be a great start.
Doesnt McCann  
XBRONX : 12/3/2020 5:42 pm : link
SO a ton?
with Alverez in the system due to come up 2023  
Rory : 12/3/2020 5:53 pm : link
McCann is the perfect predecessor, 4 years would be perfect.

RE: with Alverez in the system due to come up 2023  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 5:58 pm : link
In comment 15065353 Rory said:
Quote:
McCann is the perfect predecessor, 4 years would be perfect.


I absolutely love Alvarez but I wouldn't count on him in 2023. The list of 21 year old major league catchers is absurdly small and thee very few that do (Pudge etc) are generational defensive players. Maybe late 2023 if they are lucky. He's played 42 professional games and just turned 19
My top prospects  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 6:04 pm : link
1. Alvarez
2. Allan
3. Mauricio
4. Crow-Armstrong
5. Baty
6. Ginn
7. Wolf
8. Vientos
9. Greene


I stopped at 9 because to me, that's the clear cream of the crop.
I don't see why you'd need Bauer with your rotation.  
adamg : 12/3/2020 6:38 pm : link
Seems like a poor gamble
Well I would expect few names  
Mike in NY : 12/3/2020 6:42 pm : link
When you do all of the following:
(1) Treat any MLB player as better than a prospect
(2) Don’t sign top IFA’s
(3) Tank your draft for one or two players. I can get behind that for someone like Matthew Allan, but I question if the extra $1.5M for Ginn vs. someone like Clayton Beeter was worth it. That money could have gotten over slot guys in Rounds 3 & 4
RE: Well I would expect few names  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 6:44 pm : link
In comment 15065373 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
When you do all of the following:
(1) Treat any MLB player as better than a prospect
(2) Don’t sign top IFA’s
(3) Tank your draft for one or two players. I can get behind that for someone like Matthew Allan, but I question if the extra $1.5M for Ginn vs. someone like Clayton Beeter was worth it. That money could have gotten over slot guys in Rounds 3 & 4


Yeah Allan seemingly has #2 upside, whereas Ginn is probably close to a 3-4. Top IFA's is valid (though their approach) has somewhat worked... this year they seemingly punted, which is bizarre... and yeah Brodie fucked us. No way around that.
RE: I don't see why you'd need Bauer with your rotation.  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 6:45 pm : link
In comment 15065371 adamg said:
Quote:
Seems like a poor gamble


11th in fWAR over the last 5 seasons, He made 30+ starts 2015, 2016, 2017, 27 in 2018, 34 in 2019 and 11 (30 start pace again this year). 2.5+ fWAR or more the last 5 seasons including 5.8 in 2018 and his Cy season this year.
Looks like Sherman was right  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/3/2020 6:47 pm : link
https://nypost.com/2020/12/03/mets-interested-in-james-mccann-over-j-t-realmuto-rival-exec/
RE: Looks like Sherman was right  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 6:59 pm : link
In comment 15065377 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
https://nypost.com/2020/12/03/mets-interested-in-james-mccann-over-j-t-realmuto-rival-exec/



DeGrom/Bauer/Stroman/Tanaka/Peterson or Matz... BONER
.  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:14 pm : link
Just remember... the idea is to win the most games, not get the best value for dollars spent. A surplus is awesome, getting the expected return or even below in a role that fills a need is good too.
I'm banging the table for Springer, I'll support any pitcher they get  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/3/2020 7:14 pm : link
.
The SP  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:19 pm : link
market is horrid. Keith Law has Walker as his 4th best SP... calls him a 5 that has "league average upside"... just for context.
Rumor  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:25 pm : link
floating around 4 for 36 McCann
I've warmed up to McCann if they can also add Springer or Bauer  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 7:31 pm : link
or obviously if they made a play for 1 of the big trade targets (Arenado, Lindor).

I really like that his track record prior to his offensive outbreak the last 2 years was as a + glove, defense first guy. We need a guy at that position who thinks the game defense first and has for a long time.

Obviously also depends on the $, but I'd imagine he is going to be a fraction of the Realmuto cost, though perhaps also more than the 2/20m predictions. 4x40m or even a little more doesn't seem too crazy and it's probably 1/3 what Realmuto is likely to get.
RE: Rumor  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 7:33 pm : link
In comment 15065403 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
floating around 4 for 36 McCann


I don't know if I'm a homer or I just didn't appreciate McCann before, but this seems like a pretty savy move at that $. McCann isn't the athlete Realmuto is but he may be his equal at receiving. And the power seems like it could be legit.
Don't  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:42 pm : link
love 4 years but I'm not going ranting and raving about it either. If it leads to Springer and or/Bauer (ideally both) fuck yeah. As I said earlier, I do think fans will be pretty disappointed without one of Lindor, Bauer or Springer.. and maybe rightfully so. I 100% believe Sandy Alderson and Steve Cohen will build a perennial winner in NY. One thing
@Mets have never had... sustained success
here's another good scouting report from BP in 2014 (Parks too)  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 7:45 pm : link
they had him as the 3rd best prospect in the Tigers system at the time.

Quote:
3. James McCann
Position: C
DOB: 06/13/1990
Height/Weight: 6’2” 210 lbs
Bats/Throws: R/R
Drafted/Acquired: 2nd round, 2011 draft, University of Arkansas (Fayetteville, AR)
Previous Ranking: NR
2013 Stats: .277/.328/.404 at Double-A Erie (119 games)
The Tools: 6 arm; 5+ glove; 5 potential hit

What Happened in 2013: After a disappointing run in his first pass in Double-A, McCann rebounded in 2013, showing good gap pop to go along with his solid defensive skills behind the plate.

Strengths: Athletic and strong; good receiver; frames well; good game caller; arm is solid-average; quick release and accurate; necessary intangibles for position; bat could get to average; shows gap power.

Weaknesses: Glove-first profile; weak contact against arm-side pitching; hit most likely to play below average; power will play below average; athletic but below-average run.

Overall Future Potential: 5; major-league regular

Realistic Role: High 4; backup catcher/below-average regular

Risk Factor/Injury History: Moderate risk; solid in Double-A debut; bat needs grade improvement.

Bret Sayre’s Fantasy Take: Unless you’re in a deep league or one that plays two catchers, McCann is not a name worth worrying about at this point. His real-life value is much higher than his fantasy value. He profiles similarly with the bat to former Tigers’ farmhand Rob Brantly.

The Year Ahead: Dual-threat catchers don’t grow on trees, and given his progress with the stick in 2013, it’s not a stretch to see McCann developing his way into that category. It’s always going to be a glove-first profile—with solid-avg attributes that play up in combination—but the bat has a chance to play up to average and show respectable gap pop, so its not an empty out. If that’s a .260 hitter with some extra-base potential coming from a 5+ glove at a premium spot, that’s a valuable player.

Major league ETA: Late 2014

Parks - Detroit Tigers Top 10 Prospects - ( New Window )
I man  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:48 pm : link
no knock on you Eric but 7 year old scouting reports don't mean a ton. He hasn't had a particularly good career. The last season+ has been MUCH better and he's an upgrade so I'm on board but the scouting report suggests he was going to be very good, what was he doing his first 5 seasons with a 76 OPS+ and -45 runs saved (the defense reports seem absurd given the fact he himself admits he had to do extensive work to improve his defense)
Another good one from FG  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 7:49 pm : link
they had him 6th. I honestly don't even care about the power surge that much, I just hope he can be a defensive leader and really click with the pitching staff. Giolito seemed to really love him.

Quote:
The Scouting Report: McCann’s strength is his defense and he’s a natural leader whose primary focus is helping his pitchers succeed. He calls a great game, has a solid arm and good receiving skills. Any offensive contributions come secondary for McCann. He’s overly aggressive at the plate, which hurts him, but he hit the ball with more authority in 2013. He should be a fringe-average-hitting catching.

2014 Top 10 Prospects: Detroit Tigers - ( New Window )
You  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:50 pm : link
don't see many players absolutely SUCK until 29 and then break out, McCann may be one but the 2014 glowing scouting report seems ridiculous on it's face. 452 games of suck before the 2019 season.
He  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:52 pm : link
said he completely reworked his stance before 2019 and before 2020 worked with Jerry Narron because his 2019 was THE WORST in baseball in pitch framing. Props for a potential late breakout but it makes the scouting reports on this plus defense in 2014 report sound silly.
Narron  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 7:54 pm : link
pre-2020 on McCann

". He also wondered if McCann had ever learned the technique he needs to succeed, and was willing to introduce him. After hearing recommendations from peers about Narron and McCann’s representation at Ballengee Group could set up a meeting, McCann pushed for the opportunity."

So I'm happy it looks like he's improved but a catching guru like Narron says that, it means his defense was beyond bad when he got to him.. before this past season
RE: I man  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 7:54 pm : link
In comment 15065417 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
no knock on you Eric but 7 year old scouting reports don't mean a ton. He hasn't had a particularly good career. The last season+ has been MUCH better and he's an upgrade so I'm on board but the scouting report suggests he was going to be very good, what was he doing his first 5 seasons with a 76 OPS+ and -45 runs saved (the defense reports seem absurd given the fact he himself admits he had to do extensive work to improve his defense)


6 year old scouting reports don't matter but they start to paint a picture.

What would stand out in Nimmo's 6 year old scouting report? That he has a great eye for walking and fringy plus tools. Conforto would be a well rounded and polished hitter (with negative defense he fixed). Alonso would be plus plus raw power if he can make enough contact. If we read Dom Smith's report the offensive projection is pretty close though the gold glove hasn't materialized yet.

The results don't always translate but the profile of the type of player usually does. It's rare to find defense or offense first players who completely invert their profile.
RE: He  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 7:57 pm : link
In comment 15065421 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
said he completely reworked his stance before 2019 and before 2020 worked with Jerry Narron because his 2019 was THE WORST in baseball in pitch framing. Props for a potential late breakout but it makes the scouting reports on this plus defense in 2014 report sound silly.


At any other position than catcher yes but that's always been a difficult position for young players to learn the nuances of receiving and calling games (and all the prep work).

It's not like CF or SS where you can either go get it or not.
Well  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:04 pm : link
Nimmo's 6 year old scouting report likelu mentions how he was a track star and will be a strong CF if not for his arm. So I'm not sure he's the best example lol
RE: RE: He  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:05 pm : link
In comment 15065424 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15065421 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


said he completely reworked his stance before 2019 and before 2020 worked with Jerry Narron because his 2019 was THE WORST in baseball in pitch framing. Props for a potential late breakout but it makes the scouting reports on this plus defense in 2014 report sound silly.



At any other position than catcher yes but that's always been a difficult position for young players to learn the nuances of receiving and calling games (and all the prep work).

It's not like CF or SS where you can either go get it or not.


But you can't both be a "plus" defender in the minors...-45 runs for your career up to 2020 and then have a catching expert say what he said. Clearly that doesn't add up.
Legit  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:06 pm : link
the WORST catcher in baseball in terms of framing in 2019, so props for apparently working on it but he wasn't a very good MLB C defensively.. in fact he was flat bad. So the scouting was off, like TDA... expected to be a defensive dynamo with a shitty bat...
RE: He  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 8:07 pm : link
In comment 15065421 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
said he completely reworked his stance before 2019 and before 2020 worked with Jerry Narron because his 2019 was THE WORST in baseball in pitch framing. Props for a potential late breakout but it makes the scouting reports on this plus defense in 2014 report sound silly.


His 2016 was good (+8 DRS, neutral framing, good CERA, threw out almost 50% of basestealers too), then he had some mixed bag years in '17/'18. The worst area of his defense those 2 years was his CERA which he completely turned around in 19/20. That's the metric SIS says evaluates "handling a pitching staff".

I'm still very in between on how reliable defensive metrics are in general but just pointing out it wasn't all bad pre-adjustments. Or else he probably wouldn't have been playing 100 games a year because he certainly wasn't hitting much back then.
No hyperbole  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:08 pm : link
2019

64 catchers

64 McCann, James 2992 -15

Hey I'm on board with the move because I think more is coming, but you can't be -15 runs, the WORST in baseball, seek out a catching guru, have the guy say it doesn't seem like he was taught proper technique and the report be on the money because he had a good season.
RE: Well  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 8:08 pm : link
In comment 15065427 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Nimmo's 6 year old scouting report likelu mentions how he was a track star and will be a strong CF if not for his arm. So I'm not sure he's the best example lol


I remember his reports including that he tore his knee up and his speed hadn't fully returned.
His  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:10 pm : link
framing was really, really bad.
59/62
30/64
64/64

2017, 2018, 2019

2020
9/62
Either  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:20 pm : link
way, I hope this gets done because I believe it signifies they are prioritizing Springer and or Bauer which is great.
30/64 is not awful - remember Realmuto wasn't pudge day 1 either  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 8:20 pm : link
he had some struggles before he figured out framing.
RE: 30/64 is not awful - remember Realmuto wasn't pudge day 1 either  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:21 pm : link
In comment 15065441 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
he had some struggles before he figured out framing.


Eric lol c'mon you left out the 2 other seasons
what is the numerator/denominator mean?  
CMicks3110 : 12/3/2020 8:21 pm : link
.
RE: what is the numerator/denominator mean?  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15065444 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
.


His ranking/qualified catchers
Realmuto for comparison  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 8:23 pm : link
2015 - 46/56
2016 - 59/63
2017 - 21/62
2018 - 16/60
2019 - 6/64
2020 - 2/62

Much clearer trend line but that's why he's gonna get 3x the $.
Qualified  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:25 pm : link
players will not always be the same number, for obvious reasons.

2020 had 62 qualified catchers, the worst framing being Will Smith of the Dodgers, Ramos finished 41st
Realmuto  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:27 pm : link
thanks to being such an insane athlete is also led baseball in pop time, Nido was 6th, McCann because he's such a big dude struggles, 60th/78
RE: RE: 30/64 is not awful - remember Realmuto wasn't pudge day 1 either  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 8:28 pm : link
In comment 15065443 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15065441 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he had some struggles before he figured out framing.



Eric lol c'mon you left out the 2 other seasons


My point isn't that he has always been good defensively prior to the last 2 years, he has clearly had some poor years, just that there were some signs along the way that he had skills if he could put things together. Hopefully that's what happened in the last couple years.
Sorry  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:28 pm : link
that was 2019. 2020 isn't opening for me for poptime.
Fastest  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:30 pm : link
player in baseball in 2020.... Tim Locastro?

Gimenez was the fastest met 24th in baseball 28.9 ft/sec

Pujols the slowest in baseball
RE: Realmuto  
Eric on Li : 12/3/2020 8:33 pm : link
In comment 15065450 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
thanks to being such an insane athlete is also led baseball in pop time, Nido was 6th, McCann because he's such a big dude struggles, 60th/78


Realmuto's defensive attributes are why I started trending all in on him.

Best pop time.
Best arm.
Turned himself into a top pitch framer.

There's no hole in his defensive game and he's almost 1 year younger than McCann, which is why the 4 years thing caught me off guard with McCann. 4 years with him is the same as 5 years with JTR factoring in age. And how good he is at all those things means he's got room for regression and can still be effective.

But obviously there's also a cost difference. I'm still not sure I'd have chosen McCann/Springer over Realmuto, I'm just happy that McCann does appear to have some of the most crucial defensive attributes I was hoping to get with the next catcher. Handling the staff is more important to me than pop time so thankfully that's the area where McCann seems to have done best.
Really hoping  
Shecky : 12/3/2020 8:35 pm : link
There’s no fire to all that McCann smoke
.  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:37 pm : link
My new random obsession... what does Tim Locastro cost @mets? Fastest player in baseball in 2020 (by sprint speed) +3 OAA in the OF, 130 OPS+ in 2020. #LoCastro4thOF
If the Mets sign Bauer  
BigBlueNH : 12/3/2020 8:38 pm : link
is there any chance they would sign BOTH Noah and Stroman after this year? That would cost a shitload of $$. I wonder if we're better off in the long run passing on Bauer and see if we might want to bring both of those guys back, if they pitch well this year. Obviously, we're a much better team in 2021 with Bauer. It just seems like it narrows our options at the end of the year.
.  
DanMetroMan : 12/3/2020 8:40 pm : link
Locastro .290/.395/.464, +1 DRS in CF, would be great late as a pinch-runner as well. Do it up @Mets
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