I really only follow the Giants and not the NFL so this went under the radar to me until today. Figured I would start a post to let everyone know about it (if they are like me) and to see if others can confirm the details.
The NFL has recently created new procedures to increase black candidates into senior levels of coaching/front office. The way I read it is the following :
- If a black person gets hired out of a team from another team to the position of head coach or GM, the team who lost that person will get a comp 3rd round picks in 2 consecutive years.
- If an additional black person gets hired off the same team , they will get an addition 3rd round comp pick in year 3.
- There appears to be a requirement that the candidate must have been on the same team for at least 2 consecutive years prior to being coached.
I really don't want this thread to debate the merits of the rule but like I said want to make sure everyone knows about it and have anyone else add any details.
How it affects us - Patrick Graham has shown enough to be considered for positions. I would think based on his smaller body of work to be compared to others, he would be a dark horse candidate only however. He could surprise, however, like Judge did last year. I think we were all hoping we would at least get another year from him. That second year would be even more important now if I'm reading the rules correctly.
Last week notwithstanding, Thomas McGaughey could at some point become a candidate especially if we see more team success and Judge becomes another special teams coach along with John Harbaugh to break the barrier. I am unclear of the rule on the 2nd person. I'm not sure if the additional 3rd pick is if it is in the same season or if it has some window assigned to it. Maybe someone can chime in.
I was trying to look at our divisional rivals. It appears that there are a couple of people in coordinator/assistant coach roles. Rob Davis is assistant head coach with the Cowboys. I've never heard of him so did some research. His role is a little weird as it is fairly ambiguous but he was a director of player personnel with the Packers. I'm not sure what to think of him but at this point, I'm not really concerned. Duce Staley is assistant head coach/running backs coach with the Eagles. He was getting some consideration awhile ago but I think his star is a lot duller now with the Eagles O being craptastic. We appear to be much closer than these teams in securing picks.
Unrelated, Cowboys staff has 2 ex-Giant coaches on it. Lunda Wells and Adam Henry.
- If a black person gets hired out of a team from another team to the position of head coach or GM, the team who lost that person will get a comp 3rd round picks in 2 consecutive years.
- If an additional black person gets hired off the same team , they will get an addition 3rd round comp pick in year 3.
- There appears to be a requirement that the candidate must have been on the same team for at least 2 consecutive years prior to being coached.
Should never have to be that way. The compensation is fine with me, though.
Sounds like If a team really wants PG after this season and he’s willing to leave, we’re SOL and would lose the opportunity for those compensatory selections.
However, what if Judge had some sort of an agreement with PG when he was being hired here that, if he was to bring him in as defensive coordinator, under no circumstances would PG accept an offer to leave after the first year. In other words, in exchange for Judge’s faith in him as a defensive coordinator, he’d agree to do the organization a solid and stay around long enough for it to be eligible for the compensatory selections, if he were to leave.
Just spitballing- this is probably implausible. Seems to run afoul of the spirit of the Rooney Rule and principles of collusion (to the extent that applies in NFL coaching circles), too.
Of course, having persons of color as OC and DC could really help your team.
BTW, I am 100% in favor of promoting persons of color. I think that is a good thing but I am just trying to see how is works in the real world.
Thanks for the info. It is news to me.
Of course, having persons of color as OC and DC could really help your team.
BTW, I am 100% in favor of promoting persons of color. I think that is a good thing but I am just trying to see how is works in the real world.
Thanks for the info. It is news to me.
Seems like you aren't the only one to think that
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I brought up our division rivals just as a comparison. In my mind at least for this year, there is almost no chance that one of our rivals will get comp'd. Actually, the Cowboys guy falls into the Patrick Graham category in that his tenure is only 1 year.
As far as Graham leaving for something other than a head coaching job, I don't think there is any chance. The Giants can block any move such as this. We are lucky that the Dolphins granted our request as he was DC already. He did get the assistant HC title this year so there is no further to go outside of HC. Since he jumped as a coordinator already, I think him doing again would do more harm than good (why does this guy keep leaving and why do they let him).
If a team has 2 candidates for HC and they are a near tossup, you hire the white guy so you don’t help your competitor’s draft stock.
Hiring another minority from the same team just makes the disincentive worse.
Seems like the hiring team and the team losing the minority both should get 3rd round picks if the league is trying to encourage minority hires.
Is there any incentive to hire minorities not attached to an NFL team, for example college coaches, sports reporters, commentators? I don’t think the original Rooney rule said anything about where the minority was hired from.
As noted, there's no advantage to hiring a POC as HC other than public relations, and presumably a good coach (which is top consideration no matter what race the candidate is)
Bingo. Such flawed logic. While I do understand the NFL's logic (award teams for developing assistant coaches that become NFL head coaches), this is the reality. Teams will think long and hard about what teams they help.
It also tends to award the better teams with additional draft capital. Teams aren't looking to poach assistants from bad teams generally.
One thing the NFL could look to doing is locking the head coaching hiring (coaching changes, etc.) until after the Super Bowl. That is precisely the reason Bienemy doesn't have a job IMO. Teams have to wait until after the deep playoff runs for a chance on Bienemy, while passing up other candidates they like. Teams aren't going to do that in most cases.
RE: Graham: One thing working against him may be the personality. He's a kind that kind of came of out nowhere and appears very soft-spoken at first. Obviously watching him on the sidelines he is amped up. Will he be impressive enough in interviews to land him a job considering his limited experience? He might, but I'm not overly concerned right now. If the Giants go on a Playoff push that could change. I also have a gut feeling based on nothing that Graham might want to stick around and see where this goes.
RE: Coach T-Mac: Reasonable chance. Pending this: his knowledge of overall X's and O's. Judge may be an ex-Specials coach but his working knowledge of the X's and O's is extraordinary. You can tell he worked with Saban & Belichick. He knows the fundamentals of every position on the field and every scheme. He knows every coach and player's background.
As for the current/new policy, there's 2 things at play here:
1. Giving teams more incentive to develop coaches of color be it at the coordinator or position coach level. Giving teams compensation if/when these coaches leave increases the incentive for doing so.
2. Forcing teams to interview more CoC for HC openings. With a limited number of coordinators, this could make teams wait longer for guys like Bienemy. Or give some under the radar guys an opportunity to impress (like Judge, though he's obviously white). No team is balking at a HC candidate because of a comp pick going to the other team, even if its a rival. If they really think that coordinator is the best candidate then hiring him away from said rival would weaken the rival and 3rd/4th round comp picks are unlikely to even be average starters in the long run.
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John, From what I understand the team that hires the minority candidate does not have to forfeit two picks. I think the team that loses him is awarded two compensatory picks the same way a team is if they lose more FA's than they signed.
The purpose is to encourage the development / marketability of the candidates, not the hiring process (which is the Rooney Rule).
The purpose is to encourage the development / marketability of the candidates, not the hiring process (which is the Rooney Rule).
Oops. Got that reversed. My bad.
Sounds like If a team really wants PG after this season and he’s willing to leave, we’re SOL and would lose the opportunity for those compensatory selections.
However, what if Judge had some sort of an agreement with PG when he was being hired here that, if he was to bring him in as defensive coordinator, under no circumstances would PG accept an offer to leave after the first year. In other words, in exchange for Judge’s faith in him as a defensive coordinator, he’d agree to do the organization a solid and stay around long enough for it to be eligible for the compensatory selections, if he were to leave.
Just spitballing- this is probably implausible. Seems to run afoul of the spirit of the Rooney Rule and principles of collusion (to the extent that applies in NFL coaching circles), too.
There’s no way Graham or anyone else in his shoes would agree to this. There is no guarantee that he’d be as hot of a candidate in that second year. He’d be potentially screwing himself over.
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