Wayne Gallman

year's "down season", Saquon Barkley lead the NFL with 94 broken tackles. Christian McCaffrey was 2nd with 62.

Finished 2nd with 56 broken tackles on runs

Finished 1st with 38 missed tackles on receptions

In comment 15065807 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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year's "down season", Saquon Barkley lead the NFL with 94 broken tackles. Christian McCaffrey was 2nd with 62. Finished 2nd with 56 broken tackles on runs Finished 1st with 38 missed tackles on receptions

Well...if Saquon would just hit the open hole he wouldn't have to break so many damn tackles :)

JK - Saquon is a beast.

In comment 15065792 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065788 GiantsRage2007 said: Quote: And is having a solid year, but let's be honest, you can pick up a guy with his production in the later rounds of the draft pretty easily. I kinda agree with this. I don't think you need to pay $3 mil for Gallman when you can find a similar skill set from a 4th or 5th rd draft pick.

I almost agree. I don't think resigning Gallman is a crucial decision as you can see Morris is almost as complete a back. I point to the Giants own pick of Paul Perkins a 5th round pick out of UCLA. I don't think there is a guarantee on ANY pick but you know what you have in Gallman. The tougher question and its one we can put off for a year or so, is Barkley. Paying him or not. Two injuries in 3 years. He's top 3 RB in the league and will most likely deserved to be paid. What do we do then.....

In terms of how much that is going to cost the Giants when SB becomes eligible.

I think it's going to take the Giants 2 years to really figure out where SB is, and that's assuming he's back for the start of next year...which, as I said before, I'm not saying is a slam dunk.

there is a wealth of information on splits in the link below.

I can't link directly to the tackles/outside stats. It is part of a subscription service. I'll see if I can find them elsewhere
Saquon splits. Tabs have the other two years - ( New Window )

The idea that Gallam is better suited to run behind any scheme than he is would be as obviously silly to everyone as it should be.

Let’s see in a playoff game where the level of competition increases considerably who do you want to give 20-25 touches? Many here just can’t seem to realize the level of competition we have been playing to win four games, do the Giants have one win against a quality opponent?

Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC.

In comment 15065819 sb from NYT Forum said:

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Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC.

UMMM...Zeke is WAY better than MBIII ever was...

In comment 15065819 sb from NYT Forum said:

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Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC.

If you look at the tandem while Garrett was OC, it was Barber and Felix Jones. Neither of them ever got 100 yards, Barber averaged about .5 YPC less than Jones and Jones was the main receiving threat out of the backfield.

Put those two together and you have Barkley. That's what I was talking about this not being a "fit" issue for Garrett or a particular style. He's used different backs to do different things because he didn't have one that was all-purpose

should have said 1000 yards

It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year.

Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well.

I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run.

I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him.
Extending Barkley - ( New Window )

People need to go back and watch last season's OL play. IIRC Barkley literally was hit by a defender on over 50% of his runs behind the line of scrimmage. There were multiple times each game where Barkley was tackled immediately after taking the hand-off.

Here is video of Barkley week one. You will notice that the Steelers were constantly in the backfield just as Barkley receives the hand-off.
Link - ( New Window )

Defenses stack the box versus Barkley because they respect his ability. Defenses game plan to stop Barkley where Gallman does not receive that attention.

In comment 15065828 christian said:

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It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year. Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well. I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run. I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him. Extending Barkley - ( New Window )

That would be a HUGE gamble.

Has done a fabulous job and is a huge part of the Giants game plan this season, he has overcome his fumbling issues also and is a very good between the tackles runner. Barkley sometimes does hesitate and look for the big run instead of taking what is there in front of him. With that said, once Barkley is back it will take 1 play to go back to wanting Barkley out there every play, his talent level is off the charts and there is no system which would make anyone want Gallman ahead of Barkley. I do believe though that you can have Barkley and Gallman out on the field together, I think shifting Barkley into the slot, out wide, or both in the backfield can be used, also Gallman can be used to spell Barkley and used situationally, maybe running the ball to get those hard yards at the end of games to run out the clock. I believe there is a role for Gallman with Barkley, but Barkley is the lead dog, you add a top end reciever, with this Oline now, and with Barkley and you have the potential of being a top end offense, just seeing Barkley with this offensive will be fun, who knows what he can do.

Saquon Barkley is the Evan Engram of running backs.

His one healthy season, 5.0 per. Elite production. Over 2000 yards from scrimmage in 2018.

You can't say it's on Saquon's indecision in the backfield for negative plays when there were so many missed blocks. Break down his carries and chart them. See how many guys got in his face as soon as he got the ball. The indecisive thing is so overblown.

Further, Saquon changes the way teams defend the Giants, Gallman does not.

There is no "Gallman fits this scheme better." Show me the scheme in the NFL that Saquon doesn't fit? There's not a offensive coordinator in the league that wouldn't take Saquon in a heartbeat.

In comment 15065836 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065828 christian said: Quote: It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year. Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well. I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run. I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him. Extending Barkley - ( New Window ) That would be a HUGE gamble.

It wouldn't be a gamble at all, that's the thing. Barkley's 5th year option will be equal to the transition tender since he was an original ballot Pro Bowler in 2018.

That number for 2020 was -- 8,704,000. Unless the PA/League make changes to the tender amount as result of the cap dropping, the 2022 will be pretty close to that.

Essentially Barkley is going to make ~19M the next 2 years.

I'm saying there is an opportunity to use that guaranteed money as a down payment on an extension, and only add more guaranteed money if he returns to form.

- still needs to develop parts of his game like pass pro and being more decisive in hitting holes vs looking for HRs;
- has skills that are generational or just very good;
- should have been the #2 overall pick by Giants or not;
- should get a second contract from Giants or not;
- or Gallman is better at getting the so called "tough yards".

But seriously debating who is the better overall running back and who you would rather have carrying the ball in ANY SCHEME is quite comical.

but what if he's not the same player.

Is if Barkley is willing to agree to a team option after next season where they can void the deal in a year if Barkley is not the same player he was. It is way too big of a gamble to give him a new contract without knowing how he will recover from this injury. While I am confident that he will be a great player upon returning I am not willing to make a financial decision on him until I see how he rebounds.

It will likely take a year before Barkley returns to form so waiting to sign him until next season makes the most sense.

agreed 100%.

Great posts.

In comment 15065822 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065819 sb from NYT Forum said: Quote: Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC. UMMM...Zeke is WAY better than MBIII ever was...

UMMM... read my post and check your dates. I said when Garrett was OC. Zeke was drafted in 2016, when Garrett was head coach. DERP!

my bad :)

Barkley’s future is cloudy. Who knows if he will ever reach his potential again, or even if he will be ready to play in Game 1 2021?

Gallman has proven to be a reliable backup and would be a good complementary or change of pace back. I think he has been more successful than Barkley inside the tackles, whereas Barkley appears to be much more of an off-tackle runner, hence the big plays and sometimes negative yards.

Unless the Giants are sure that Barkley will be ready to go for Game 1, the Giants must try to keep Gallman around. Every team in the league has at least one back who is as productive as Gallman so he is not going to get big offers elsewhere. He will get backup or “running back by committee” money. So he should get that with the Giants on a 1-year extension or a 2-year team friendly deal, unless he wants to move on to try to compete for a lead back role.

In comment 15065860 Jay on the Island said:

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Is if Barkley is willing to agree to a team option after next season where they can void the deal in a year if Barkley is not the same player he was. It is way too big of a gamble to give him a new contract without knowing how he will recover from this injury. While I am confident that he will be a great player upon returning I am not willing to make a financial decision on him until I see how he rebounds. It will likely take a year before Barkley returns to form so waiting to sign him until next season makes the most sense.

Exactly Jay. The reality is he's going to make at least 18M the next 2 years. What I'd like the Giants to do is give him that in the form of a bonus right now -- and then the rest of his guaranteed money be contingent on him returning to form next year.

If he doesn't return to form he's lost nothing and the Giant can walk away. If he does, he'll enjoy a lucrative deal in the range of his contemporaries.

had a superstar at RB and usually had a running game that was effective.

I think Barkley ultimately gets moved for picks within the next 2 years.

for the past 6 games, his yardage would have far eclipsed Gallman's. And that's no knock on Wayne Gallman who has filled in admirably.

makes me reluctant to sign Barkley to a long contract. Not sure a supreme RB is worth the money.

In comment 15065685 JonC said:

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and he's also at times missing the designated hole or cutback lane. He should improve with experience and better blocking.

I basically watched every game SB played at PSU. He's a free lancer by nature; and Franklin was okay with it because you can get away with it at the college level.

At best, I think SB's an average back running between the tackles. He doesn't have a real north-south mentality unless the hole is very clean.

So I'll believe it when I see it that SB adopts that discipline to hit the designated hole. There is a lot of muscle memory in that body to wait, wait, wait...bounce, bounce, bounce...and then ad-lib an opportunity.

He's great at his thing. But he ain't killing a clock and game like a Derrick Henry.

In fact it’s one of the reasons I supported drafting him even though I’m generally against taking “RB” high. It should be very interesting to see what type of player he looks like when he finally gets some blocking for first time since HS possibly.

extra big plays you get that you generally need to rely on the passing game for. His rookie year was nuts as far as plays over 40 yards historically. Like best of all time.

I understand using BB as what he does and doesn't do, but constantly saying the Pats don't do this, so why should we is kind of a bunk argument. There are certain types of players that BB literally never gets to look at because they go top 10. Everyone plays in their sandbox. Freak WRs, freak pass rushers, elite type RBs. Those guys almost always go top 10.

where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

In comment 15066096 UConn4523 said:

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where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

I swear to God people have amnesia from how poor our offensive line looked for 3 weeks and how teams were defending us. Legitametly 3 guys untouched as he's getting the handoff. Haven't seen anything like that. Some of that is teams were absolutely terrifed of Saquon, overwhelming our front, which had zero preseason. The funny part is nobody really plays like the same player until 2 years post ACL, but somehow I think people will think he got better because of the numbers he's going to put up with a competent offensive line. For some people, the end results are the only thing that matters completely ignoring football is the ultimate team sport. I'd image these same people have killed countless numbers of babies throwing out the bath water.

In comment 15066081 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In fact it’s one of the reasons I supported drafting him even though I’m generally against taking “RB” high. It should be very interesting to see what type of player he looks like when he finally gets some blocking for first time since HS possibly.

It’s a bummer the year the line got it together in the run game, Barkley is hurt. And the first year he’ll suit up behind a better line, he’ll be coming off surgery.

It sucks two of his prime years are getting wrapped up in this. Especially because I do think he has room to improve as a pass blocker, getting more depth on his pass routes, and turning some of those negative runs into positive plays.

prove a lot of people wrong when he returns. I'm excited about that prospect.

In comment 15066096 UConn4523 said:

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where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

I posted it several times on this thread. In the remainder of the chicago game and the next two games, we had 12 rushes for negative yardage.

It sort of dispels the idea that our backs fall forward and gain yardage while Barkley dances and gets dropped for losses due to his own deficiencies.

But then again, we are in a thread where the OP is arguing on his podcast that Gallman's running style is a better fit than Barkley in Garrett's offense. And on the pod, he's pretty adamant about it.

In comment 15066081 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In fact it’s one of the reasons I supported drafting him even though I’m generally against taking “RB” high. It should be very interesting to see what type of player he looks like when he finally gets some blocking for first time since HS possibly.

Donovan Smith was a bad OL at PSU? ;)

That I am not a fan of SB's running style.

So I tend to agree with the OP.

Terrible in pass pro, terrible in short yardage, and doesn’t do well picking up tough positive yards when the blocking isn’t there. Yes he’s a homerun threat and yes he’s a weapon in the passing game. He’s the same guy he was in college. Same issues.

Whether or not he’s the best fit for the identity Judge is trying to build is a legitimate question. He’s not a physical back. He’s not the kind of back that will wear down a defense in the playoffs and pay dividends in the 4th Quarter.

It’s a moot point considering the Giants are rolling with him for at least 2 more years, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they let him test the market when his rookie deal ends. It would probably be the best for the Giants.

Although Barkley’s 2021 cap number is $10.1MM, he’s only due $4.9MM next year. The rest is amortization of bonus money he already received, so that part is irrelevant to any potential extension.

In comment 15065836 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065828 christian said: Quote: It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year. Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well. I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run. I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him. Extending Barkley - ( New Window ) That would be a HUGE gamble.

I think his point is that we could probably get him at somewhat of a discount (relatively speaking). Maybe we could have a superstar RB but on a contract that doesn’t break the bank. It would still be expensive and a risk of course, but we’d be betting on a 23 year old torn ACL Saquon’s future in this league. Is it worth it? Possibly. Knowing Saquon’s work ethic and drive, and his otherworldly physical abilities, I would lean toward betting on him! I honestly get the feeling he’s a freak of nature and just young enough to rehab and get back to the same player he was physically by the time he’s 25 or 26. If he was a couple years older I’d say no, but I think this kid is built differently and he’s still pretty damn young.

At the 2021 number, which hasn’t been calculated yet. In 2020, it was $8.5mm. Over the cap projects it to be $8.7mm.

How many times is he going to get tripped up by a shoestring tackle when he is about to break one? He works hard to get extra yards in between the tackles, but he has as many 20+ yard runs this year as Alfred Morris.

is said to be "terrible" in a certain facet, it certainly is used as hyperbole to make him seem less than an excellent back.

In comment 15066314 Mike in NY said:

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How many times is he going to get tripped up by a shoestring tackle when he is about to break one? He works hard to get extra yards in between the tackles, but he has as many 20+ yard runs this year as Alfred Morris.

Agreed, he should switch to velcro.

In comment 15066096 UConn4523 said:

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where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

The posts weren’t there from the majority on here, I believe..The naysayers largely opined that Darnold should have been the pick. Some said Allen or Rosen

.

You get an OC who is bright enough to design a scheme to maximize his talents.

Much easier to replace a mediocre OC than a talent like SB.