Wayne Gallman

But Saquon is an infinitely better back. Much more explosive and much better out of the backfield. Saquon has 2 very glaring weakness, pass protection and too many tackles for losses due to indecisiveness in the backfield. Both are coachable. If he gets those 2 points corrected he’s the best RB in the league by a nice margin IMO.

my untrained eye, it appears they went from a zone blocking scheme with Barkley to a power blocking scheme with Gallman. It could be about the lineman and not so much about the RB?

working behind this improving OL

longest run is 27 yards.

There have been several plays that if Barkley hits the same hole, he's taking it all the way.

Look, Gallman has been a solid back and he's grinding out yards, but his YPC isn't great and he leaves a lot of big plays on the field. He would be excellent as a complementary back. As the lead guy, he's solid but unspectacular.

In comment 15065645 Big Blue '56 said:

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working behind this improving OL

This

In comment 15065647 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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longest run is 27 yards. There have been several plays that if Barkley hits the same hole, he's taking it all the way. Look, Gallman has been a solid back and he's grinding out yards, but his YPC isn't great and he leaves a lot of big plays on the field. He would be excellent as a complementary back. As the lead guy, he's solid but unspectacular.

Do you think Barkley finds those holes? I'm curious, that is what I am skeptical about.

The key for SB is to improve his ability to see and hit a hole hard. It's a balance between vision and patience, and he's often making the wrong decision which leads to dancing or hitting an OL in the back.

why does one player have to be vaulted up while the other guy has to be condemned every time something like this happens?

Barkley doesn't find the holes yet he's averaged over 4 YPC since entering the NFL all the while he's been running behind a trash OL.

You're manufacturing a story that isn't there.

One of the most overrated stats fans use to peg backs. Gallman is very good he’s missing breakaway speed. That’s really all he’s missing as far as a skill set. Is he better than saquon? Of course he’s not better but he does find a lot of yardage that saquon would not. Gallman is willing to take what’s given he’s a more powerful runner than saquon.

if he comes back at close to his former self. Just watch. Then the next debate will be should the Giants pay him, which of course they will and half of BBI will lose their shit.

If Gallman was as talented as SB then his style fits this o-line/scheme better. I agree with that.

We are FAR better with SB back there, no one is debating that.

In comment 15065658 Tuckrule said:

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One of the most overrated stats fans use to peg backs. Gallman is very good he’s missing breakaway speed. That’s really all he’s missing as far as a skill set. Is he better than saquon? Of course he’s not better but he does find a lot of yardage that saquon would not. Gallman is willing to take what’s given he’s a more powerful runner than saquon.

Gallman gets yardage Barkley would not? Really? Based on what? The last 6 games when the OL finally came together?

I guess we ignore 2018.

people act like Barkley is a guy who can't find his way out of a box?? He was hamstrung by terrible blocking prior to injury, but he has shown the ability to find those holes and make big plays. Why has everyone blocked out of their heads his first two seasons??

All I've heard about him this year is that he continually dances and can't pass block worth a damn.

If you go back and look at the Bears game and the two games following his injury, we had 12 runs that went as losses. It has been the improvement in the run blocking, as well as Gallman's hard running that has helped.

Gallman, even in this year we speak glowingly of him, will likely reach only 700 yards and average 4 YPC.

Barkley hit 1000 yards his first two seasons and averages 4.7YPC

In comment 15065662 Capt. Don said:

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If Gallman was as talented as SB then his style fits this o-line/scheme better. I agree with that. We are FAR better with SB back there, no one is debating that.

People are most definitely debating it.

Your reading too much into what I wrote. By finding yards I mean taking a 2 yard gain by lowering your heading into the A gap. Saquon tries to make stuff happen on plays where he should be okay with 2 yards. He does lose yardage that I believe gallman wouldn’t. Gallman doesn’t dance he’s the epitome of a one cut runner north south runner. That’s all I’m saying.

interesting takes from multiple people and I don't think anyone is wrong. Gallman's ability to see the hole, hit it and fall forward is fantastic. But on the secondary level he's not making that move to get himself into the open field to take it to the house.

On the other hand, you've got SB who misses some holes, dances around in the backfield, and takes some TFLs but man can he make people miss, shake the last guy at the second level and take it to the house.

Is there room on the roster for both? Are there enough plays to go around for both? Can you run an offense effectively using both? Is SB going to worth the money to keep? Is GAllman worth the money to keep if we still have SB?

It's a good problem to have - but I'm really curious to see how the Giants front office and coaching staff sees this backfield shaping up in the short and long terms.

YPC I see is big for you. Do yourself a favor. Go back every single game and eliminate all of gallman as goal line runs as well as fourth quarter runs wasting the clock running into a 9 man box. Then figure out his actual ypc. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Also your yardage totals for the year. Let’s remember he split carries. It wasn’t up until last week where he was the true feature back

Penn State also had a zone blocking scheme (with often poor run blocking), so he's gotten used to have to make defenders miss in the backfield. Give him some good blocking (like Gallman is seeing) and he'll be fine. It seems like everyone but Giants fans remember how good Barkley was in 2018 and can be.

Pass pro and getting skinny.

Saquon's issues with pass pro are well documented.

I like Gallman's ability to get skinny in narrow holes, he's built slim and his decision making (and OL) have improved, so when he gets that narrow opening, he slides through and falls forward.

But I think Saquon with this OL, we may be at .500 or better. He would have taken some of those runs to the house. And he would force those LBs up because of his speed, opening up the deep passing which has been tough due to cover 2.

In comment 15065668 Dnew15 said:

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interesting takes from multiple people and I don't think anyone is wrong. Gallman's ability to see the hole, hit it and fall forward is fantastic. But on the secondary level he's not making that move to get himself into the open field to take it to the house. On the other hand, you've got SB who misses some holes, dances around in the backfield, and takes some TFLs but man can he make people miss, shake the last guy at the second level and take it to the house. Excellent post and 100 percent how I see it. Is there room on the roster for both? Are there enough plays to go around for both? Can you run an offense effectively using both? Is SB going to worth the money to keep? Is GAllman worth the money to keep if we still have SB? It's a good problem to have - but I'm really curious to see how the Giants front office and coaching staff sees this backfield shaping up in the short and long terms.

In comment 15065671 Tuckrule said:

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YPC I see is big for you. Do yourself a favor. Go back every single game and eliminate all of gallman as goal line runs as well as fourth quarter runs wasting the clock running into a 9 man box. Then figure out his actual ypc. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Also your yardage totals for the year. Let’s remember he split carries. It wasn’t up until last week where he was the true feature back

It isn't YPC that I'm focused on. It is the ability to make the big play. But it is foolish to talk about eliminating runs when calculating YPC. Barkley is taking some of the runs we've seen from Gallman and Morris that are 7-10 yards and making them much longer. He was "dancing" because of the terrible blocking.

Again - in the Bears game after Barkley was hurt and the next two games the backs combined for 12 runs for losses. Were they dancing too or was it possible that the blocking still sucked?

could possibly have had one or two breakaway home runs each game. There is no comparison between Gallman and Barkley talentwise. They're even on the same planet.

Gallman deserves a lot of credit for being a guy that runs hard every play, runs between the tackles, doesn't shy away from contact, makes yards after contact and is a willing and decent blocker.

Barkley in his first 31 games has done those things rarely or poorly. It will be interesting to see if he comes back healthy and regains his form how the Giants use him. The film doesn't lie Judge knows what he has and what he doesn't have.

He is so overdeveloped, can his tendons and ligaments withstand all that torque over and over for 16 + games?

very good-to-above-average RB's, with different skill sets. Especially b/c of the high rate of injury at the position.

Earnest Byner and Kevin Mack
Marcus Allen and Bo Jackson
Fred Taylor and MJD
Tomlinson and Sproles
Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams
Jacobs and Ward
Jacobs and Bradshaw

In comment 15065665 djm said:

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In comment 15065662 Capt. Don said: Quote: If Gallman was as talented as SB then his style fits this o-line/scheme better. I agree with that. We are FAR better with SB back there, no one is debating that. People are most definitely debating it.

On this thread? Who?

that Barkley had the most yards after contact in 2018, right?

Now a lot of that was because he was getting hit in the backfield, but let's not make it seem like Gallman is plowing people over and Barkley goes down like a feather.

Is because he’s running behind an OL that has finally learned to run block. If Saqon had those openings he’d be blowing the joint up.

and he's also at times missing the designated hole or cutback lane. He should improve with experience and better blocking.

Good #2 back. Gets some tough yards while the big guy gets a breather. He's doing a great job providing a real running game, and I hope he's back as SB backup for next year

It's a fair point. He's missed over a third of the games his first 3 seasons and last year he played ineffectively because of injury in about half the games he did play.

Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ?

In comment 15065681 FranknWeezer said:

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very good-to-above-average RB's, with different skill sets. Especially b/c of the high rate of injury at the position. Earnest Byner and Kevin Mack Marcus Allen and Bo Jackson Fred Taylor and MJD Tomlinson and Sproles Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams Jacobs and Ward Jacobs and Bradshaw

Because this is about to be a very expensive luxury really soon.

Look I have always liked Gallman and I hope that he is re-signed to the right price but he is also benefitting from improved play from the OL especially run blocking. Every game there are a few solid runs by RB's where they pick up 10-13 yards where Barkley would have taken it 60-70 for a TD.

Gallman had a great run up the middle against the Bengals where he almost broke one but he was tripped up by the defender. Barkley would have turned that into a huge TD run.

The OL that we see now versus the one we saw the first two weeks of the season is vastly different.

In comment 15065691 averagejoe said:

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Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ?

Do you just make shit up??

Out of Barkley's 2344 yards, over 1700, or almost 2/3rds of them come from runs inside the tackles! Now of course, most runs go inside the tackles - but to say he can't run inside is patently absurd.

I somewhat agree the blocking schemes have changed to accommodate running style. While there is no question Saquan is the more talented and explosive back, let's not forget that he led the league in carries for negative yards. Yeah, cue up the poor blocking, blah, blah, blah, but Saquan does way to much stutter stepping instead of hitting the hole while Gallman bursts through the line with deciseness and breaks tackle after tackle.

What I think it comes down to is, is it better to have the big play ability or the ability to move the chains? If moving the chains is more important, Gallman is the guy in THIS offense. Don't misinterpret, overall in a perfect world, it's a no brainer, you want Saquan in the backfield.

In comment 15065691 averagejoe said:

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Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ?

This is purposefully ignorant.

Some of you are expecting Gallman to sign a contract for $7+ million per season this offseason despite the fact that the cap is going DOWN and there are 10 teams over the salary cap as of today. Don't forget that Gallman's career high for rushing yards in a season is 476 which he will likely break this season but he won't smash that. Honestly he is looking at a new contract for about $2.5-3 million per season for 2-3 years.

I like what he brings to the table. But I don't know how the current coaching staff feels about him.

Let's not forget, the Giants went out and brought in a street FA RB that couldn't find a place to play and immediately gave him more snaps than Gallman.

He keeps his pad level low and waits for blocks and ALWAYS falls forward. He wears down defenses with his running style and makes the pass game better as a result.

I think Barkley's dancing is significantly overhyped. In his rookie year, he seemed to get much better (although never bad) at hitting the holes hard. Our line sucked pretty hard so he did have carries in which a normal running back had no shot but he made some plays based on his unique talents.

Last year, he came back from an injury soo soon and he couldn't make the same plays he made his rookie year. The line probably sucked even harder last year.

Saquon has Barry Sanders' like talents but I don't think we will have to endure the 1 , 2, -1, 3, 2, 1, 2 , -1, 60 yard running stats. I think with our focus on building the offensive line and power running, Saquon's line will look more like 4, 4, 5, 12, 50, 8. He is that good.




I do want to bring up one scenario however... The premise of a highly skilled back vs. multiple running backs who always fall forward.

I'll take 2004-2006 as the 1st example. Tiki was basically Mozart in the backfield. He put up huge rushing stats but never seemed to get hit hard. He used his blockers incredibly effective and put up amazing stats. He was the focus on the offense and their best player.

He retires and the offense looks better. Why? Because we had an identify of pounding the football. Jacobs, Ward, Bradshaw and even Ruben Droughns earlier in the year rotated in and out. Every one of those guys fell forward after almost every run. You run the ball like that for 35 times a game with fresh running backs and it will take it's toll on the defense.






Barkely is a huge weapon. I don't want to see him get burnt out by running the ball 25 times a game. I'd love for the Giants to keep a Gallman or get someone else and split the carries. Gallman/rookie at about 12-15 with Barkely 15-18. Barkely will also get more touches in air by being a receiver.




PS. I don't think Gallman is very effective in pass pro yet.

In comment 15065705 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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Yeah, cue up the poor blocking, blah, blah, blah,

I don't think you can "blah, blah, blah" the level of run blocking the Giants have had the last few years. I do think Barkley at times can dance too much, but again I think a lot of that is learned behavior from years of poor zone blocking. He should definitely improve with experience. The biggest thing is staying healthy.

need to go back and watch the first 2 games. Barkley hardly had time to even get the handoff before 3 or 4 defensive players were on him. Dancing? He had nowhere to go. As the offensive line goes, so does our running backs.

As far as ypc, sure we can take away all of gallmans short yardage situations and goal line situations if we can take away all of barkleys tackles for loss too. It works both ways.

It is no coincidence that as our offensive line has played well, so has the running game regardless of who is running the ball. This is not a knock on gallman as he is running the ball well, but he lacks break away speed.

I can't wait to see Barkley behind an improved offensive line that will give him space to create big running plays.

Barkley is arguably the best receiver among the RB's in the NFL.

In comment 15065647 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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longest run is 27 yards. There have been several plays that if Barkley hits the same hole, he's taking it all the way. Look, Gallman has been a solid back and he's grinding out yards, but his YPC isn't great and he leaves a lot of big plays on the field. He would be excellent as a complementary back. As the lead guy, he's solid but unspectacular.

This is the correct sentiment.

Also add that we have seen times where Barkley dance a bit or try to find the big play versus a few tough yards. Gallman does this less.

But let's not make it out that Barkley also doesn't have numerous runs where he simply ran thru a hole or gap for a nice gain. We have seen it happen. It just didn't happen consistently enough because his shitty OL didn't create as many gaps for as they are now for Gallman.

Not sure where this is going either. If they were both healthy and available in the next draft...who are picking first? I don't care what scheme Garrett is or is not running.

How the OL was so bad that some people wanted Nick Gates cut after the game because he struggled mightily against a great defense. Then the Giants went up against another great defense in Chicago where Barkley was injured half way through the game.

In comment 15065713 Jay on the Island said:

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Barkley is arguably the best receiver among the RB's in the NFL.

This is exactly it. I think the Giants need to utilize Barkley + Gallman like Kamara+Murray in New Orleans. It will make Barkley more, not less effective.

is more suited to Garrett's scheme, but the gap in talent between him and Saquon is notable. That is on Saquon to stop dancing so much, and take what the defense gives him more often.

I think Barkley will have some incredible success behind a much improved line and am looking forward to seeing it! Spielman was kind of on point with Gallman always 'falling forward'. It SEEMS that when nothing is there or Gallman is hit behind the line he'll go down quicker than Barkley but will not lose as many yards or get back to the LOS. Barkley doesn't go down as easily and will look to turn it into something. With the line being as porous as it was, his 1 or 2 yard losses would turn into 3 or 4 and it sucked. Kind of similar to Jones trying to make EVERY play a positive and either fumbling or throwing an INT. But as FMiC said, a lot of those runs where Gallman is just about to break it is where Barkley does break it of and if not a td its a big gain. If I had my druthers I'd take both. Barkley's talent makes defenses scheme differently and would benefit everyone on the team, WG included.

In comment 15065717 Lionhart28 said:

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In comment 15065713 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Barkley is arguably the best receiver among the RB's in the NFL. This is exactly it. I think the Giants need to utilize Barkley + Gallman like Kamara+Murray in New Orleans. It will make Barkley more, not less effective.

I agree with this, it's a great comparison.

THe real question about this scenario is: is it a good idea to throw this much money into the RB position.
The Murray/Kamara comparison is also great from a cap allocation perspective as well.

Murray is making 3.2 mil and Kamara is making almost 16 mil.

That's a lot of money to pay for your RBs.

garbage since being drafted. Thgis line developing this year will benefit Barkley tremendously next year, especially if he becomes more decisive in his reads.

Is a weapon that can be split out, he can score on any play and makes the D attend to him. Gallman is a serviceable back. It’s night and day. SB had no blocking when he played this year. New scheme, new players, new C, etc. I think Garrett went from zone to power blocks (duo, pulling and trapping) in part for Gallman but more because that is that this OL does better. They were awful at zone early on.

But if you’re a DC, you’re actively accounting for SB in a way you don’t have to for the Wayne Train. He’s not going to hit a HR, and SB can on any play. Gallman at the second level is 8-25 yards. Saquon is a potential TD.

SB may take time to get fully back to form after his knee. But a play action to him should suck up LBs like crazy. You saw the Steelers swarm to him and dare the pass to beat them, which at that point we couldn’t.

Finally, long term he’ll get paid in part - I think - because he’s also the face of the franchise, and they player football fans and TV producers want to watch. He sells ads, merch, and tickets. Not a lot of Gallman jerseys in the stands.

These past two seasons he hasn't been able to. Let's see what happens on that front. In the meantime, it's great to know that the Giants can manufacture and effective run-game with this OL and Gallman/Morris/Freeman.

In comment 15065717 Lionhart28 said:

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In comment 15065713 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Barkley is arguably the best receiver among the RB's in the NFL. This is exactly it. I think the Giants need to utilize Barkley + Gallman like Kamara+Murray in New Orleans. It will make Barkley more, not less effective.

This is what I would like, although Barkley will get more rushes than Kamara does.

But let's not pretend he is Barkley. They both have issues with missing holes and the recency of his play is making fans do what they always do, overthink and start embellishing their play.

Funny thing is, this is the main reason why you keep a guy like Gallman, instead of thinking he is easily replaceable.

Imagine if they still had Perkins and Hilliman as backups instead of Gallman?

In comment 15065647 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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longest run is 27 yards. There have been several plays that if Barkley hits the same hole, he's taking it all the way. Look, Gallman has been a solid back and he's grinding out yards, but his YPC isn't great and he leaves a lot of big plays on the field. He would be excellent as a complementary back. As the lead guy, he's solid but unspectacular.

Agreed!
I'm a huge Gallman fan; probably watched every game at Clemson.
When he came out I predicted he'd be a solid contributor for many years in the NFL; able to get the short yards, catch a 3rd down pass, etc. His obvious collegiate limitation was downfield speed; he seldom broke the "long one" on his own.

But don't sell the Wayne Train short. He was an every down back that set Clemson RB records for TDs and yards.

More significantly he led all college backs, including Saquan, in yards after contact. (Eventually he'd be brought down past the 2nd level).

He has now learned NFL pass pro (see the JJ report) and has to get used to NOT being the prime carrier.

Having said that I believe he has confirmed my pre draft opinion that he'd be a solid long term contributor. He can be the "homegrown" RB vet the NYG seem to always be searching for.

In comment 15065702 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 15065691 averagejoe said: Quote: Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ? Do you just make shit up?? Out of Barkley's 2344 yards, over 1700, or almost 2/3rds of them come from runs inside the tackles! Now of course, most runs go inside the tackles - but to say he can't run inside is patently absurd.

I understand why you are a Barkley fanboy. He's fun to watch. You know what was not fun to watch ? His 1.8 yds per carry while healthy in first three games.

In comment 15065732 averagejoe said:

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In comment 15065702 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: In comment 15065691 averagejoe said: Quote: Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ? Do you just make shit up?? Out of Barkley's 2344 yards, over 1700, or almost 2/3rds of them come from runs inside the tackles! Now of course, most runs go inside the tackles - but to say he can't run inside is patently absurd. I understand why you are a Barkley fanboy. He's fun to watch. You know what was not fun to watch ? His 1.8 yds per carry while healthy in first three games.

And Gallman would have done much better? Did you even watch the Steelers game? He was getting hit 3 and 4 yards behind the LOS on every. Single. Play.

In comment 15065668 Dnew15 said:

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interesting takes from multiple people and I don't think anyone is wrong. Gallman's ability to see the hole, hit it and fall forward is fantastic. But on the secondary level he's not making that move to get himself into the open field to take it to the house. On the other hand, you've got SB who misses some holes, dances around in the backfield, and takes some TFLs but man can he make people miss, shake the last guy at the second level and take it to the house. Is there room on the roster for both? Are there enough plays to go around for both? Can you run an offense effectively using both? Is SB going to worth the money to keep? Is GAllman worth the money to keep if we still have SB? It's a good problem to have - but I'm really curious to see how the Giants front office and coaching staff sees this backfield shaping up in the short and long terms.

You should take a listen, we have a good debate on this.

You were called out for saying Barkley can't run inside.

Just a shitty, uninformed take.


I will point this out again. In the remainder of the bears game and the following two games, the RB's combined for 12 runs for losses.

Barkley was injured and unavailable to "dance", so can you explain that?

In comment 15065705 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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I somewhat agree the blocking schemes have changed to accommodate running style. While there is no question Saquan is the more talented and explosive back, let's not forget that he led the league in carries for negative yards. Yeah, cue up the poor blocking, blah, blah, blah, but Saquan does way to much stutter stepping instead of hitting the hole while Gallman bursts through the line with deciseness and breaks tackle after tackle. What I think it comes down to is, is it better to have the big play ability or the ability to move the chains? If moving the chains is more important, Gallman is the guy in THIS offense. Don't misinterpret, overall in a perfect world, it's a no brainer, you want Saquan in the backfield.

My co host and I argue about this and I do think Barkley is the better back, but it is definitely an interesting debate. You should take a listen if you get the chance.

He is perfect for this line as he hits the hole hard and takes his 2-3 yard gain. However, as we have all seen, he has had about 10 plays(maybe more) this year that he gets tripped up by an ankle or toe tackle. I'd venture that Barkley takes at least half to the house. Barkley will not be caught from behind once into the 2nd level. Also, Barkley out in the flats on a dump off pass is frightening to a defense.

Barkley and Gallman would make a great tandem next season, but I would venture there are college RBs that will be available late that can do the job Gallman is doing.

podcast is a pretty tough listen.

Which, as this thread goes on, I think is your bigger goal - to get people to listen to it.

In comment 15065740 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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podcast is a pretty tough listen. Which, as this thread goes on, I think is your bigger goal - to get people to listen to it.

It is not my bigger goal, we have a ton of listeners that really like it and some very experienced in the tv production and podcast world helping us. I'm interested in the opinion. Sorry, you don't like it.

Year 1 - 1300 yrds rushing, 700+ yds receiving
Year 2 - 1000+ yds rushing, 420+ yds receiving (only 13 games)

Done with a much worse line than Gallman has right now.
Gallman will get like half these numbers (actually less than half in receiving).

In addition Barkley's YPC is about 1 to 1.5 yds more (look it up). Also the defenses do not have to change their defense to handle Gallman, Barkley they do (which opens up other players).

There is no comparison really, Barkley behind this line now would gain about 1600 yds rushing for sure. I can't wait for next season

I fully intend to give a listen. Looking forward to it.

In comment 15065743 Pete44 said:

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In comment 15065740 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: podcast is a pretty tough listen. Which, as this thread goes on, I think is your bigger goal - to get people to listen to it. It is not my bigger goal, we have a ton of listeners that really like it and some very experienced in the tv production and podcast world helping us. I'm interested in the opinion. Sorry, you don't like it.

My opinion on the Gallman debate you are having in the pod is that "fit" isn't really the topic. It shouldn't be a question on whether or not Gallman is a better "fit". He isn't. If he were, he'd have some 100 yard games and put up stats like Barkley. He's been the beneficiary of improved blocking.

Going back to Garrett's schemes with RB's when he was OC, he utilizes them complementary, which is what he'd likely do when Barkley is healthy.

Gallman is doing a solid job. The side of the argument being lost is that people are acting as if Gallman is getting the tough yards and Barkley wouldn't. Thant's a strawman argument. Again, in 2018, Barkley led the league in yards after contact. He also led the league in fewest yards at first contact

I was thinking of the same topic just last night.

Gallman has filled in admirably, but he’s limited as a runner, and as an athlete. The job title is exactly what he is: backup.

I think Barkley is able to adjust his style, so he can be successful. And I believe Garrett will adjust the offense to sue his strengths.

It is in fair to judge Barkley off of the first few weeks of the season. The team is completely different at this point in the year.

Whether Barkley can stay healthy to be that #1 RB, or it's someone else as the #1 RB in case Barkley can't stay healthy ,or he can, but he can't return to his previous form, I'd just like to see Gallman remain on as the complimentary guy.

I bet some of these same people "excited" about Gallman, wanted him OFF the team last pre-season or the one prior.
Gallman was shit on badly by this board.

In comment 15065749 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 15065743 Pete44 said: Quote: In comment 15065740 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: podcast is a pretty tough listen. Which, as this thread goes on, I think is your bigger goal - to get people to listen to it. It is not my bigger goal, we have a ton of listeners that really like it and some very experienced in the tv production and podcast world helping us. I'm interested in the opinion. Sorry, you don't like it. My opinion on the Gallman debate you are having in the pod is that "fit" isn't really the topic. It shouldn't be a question on whether or not Gallman is a better "fit". He isn't. If he were, he'd have some 100 yard games and put up stats like Barkley. He's been the beneficiary of improved blocking. Going back to Garrett's schemes with RB's when he was OC, he utilizes them complementary, which is what he'd likely do when Barkley is healthy. Gallman is doing a solid job. The side of the argument being lost is that people are acting as if Gallman is getting the tough yards and Barkley wouldn't. Thant's a strawman argument. Again, in 2018, Barkley led the league in yards after contact. He also led the league in fewest yards at first contact

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Gallman vs Barkley. There is no doubt the offensive line has improved, but I do think Garrett's schemes favor a back that makes quick decisions and hits the hole hard. My concern is that Barkley is the type of back that is more patient and looks for the big play and can this line hold their blocks. It is an interesting debate and one to be honest, I go back and forth on. Furthermore, there is no doubt the Giants miss Barkley's big play ability to the plodding offense they are running now.

is being given, over the last 5 games (when he has become the sole starter) he has averaged 59 yds per game, ~10 yds receiving, and 3.76 YPC.

These stats pale compared to Barkley's, and this is what Gallman is being applauded for. Gallman is a solid back up RB, which is exactly how he has been used here.

Barkley also led the league last year in carries for negative yards as well. Not saying he is not a beast but he has his warts. Way too much jitterbugging at times. Gallman is also a better blocker picking up the blitz. Saquon has been awful at this. Again, no argument as to who the better back is, I just disagree that Gallman is a throwaway at the end of the season.

In comment 15065756 ZogZerg said:

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I bet some of these same people "excited" about Gallman, wanted him OFF the team last pre-season or the one prior. Gallman was shit on badly by this board.

+1

In comment 15065759 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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Barkley also led the league last year in carries for negative yards as well. Not saying he is not a beast but he has his warts. Way too much jitterbugging at times. Gallman is also a better blocker picking up the blitz. Saquon has been awful at this. Again, no argument as to who the better back is, I just disagree that Gallman is a throwaway at the end of the season.

I don't believe Gallmans pass blocking is better than Barkleys, not sure where this came from. Giants use Lewis when they really need the RB to block. I may agree the pass blocking is equivalent between Bark and Gallman, but that is it

In comment 15065752 Vin_Cuccs said:

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I was thinking of the same topic just last night. Gallman has filled in admirably, but he’s limited as a runner, and as an athlete. The job title is exactly what he is: backup. I think Barkley is able to adjust his style, so he can be successful. And I believe Garrett will adjust the offense to sue his strengths. It is in fair to judge Barkley off of the first few weeks of the season. The team is completely different at this point in the year.

This.

In comment 15065759 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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Barkley also led the league last year in carries for negative yards as well. Not saying he is not a beast but he has his warts. Way too much jitterbugging at times. Gallman is also a better blocker picking up the blitz. Saquon has been awful at this. Again, no argument as to who the better back is, I just disagree that Gallman is a throwaway at the end of the season.

He was hit the earliest of any back after getting the ball. Do you think that might be why he had all the negative carries

I will post it for a multiple time here. In the remainder of the Bears game and teh next two games, we had 12 runs for losses. Without Barkley. Don't you think the blocking might have been an issue?

Gallman is not a throwaway. He's a solid backup. I'd love to have him here at a reasonable price

he's a great kid, an exciting football player, a tremendous talent, an awesome human being and super easy to root for. I want him to comeback after this injury 110% and be a Giant for life.

BUT - I ain't giving that guy a long term Kamara/CMC/Zeke type contract until I'm convinced he's the same player before the injuries.

I am not counting on him coming back 100% like it's a slam dunk no doubt about it type scenario. As Giants fans, we have all been down this road before.

Not trying to be a dick but really? Watch some game replays from last year. My whole section at the stadium moans every time SB stayed in to block and missed the blitz pickup. Further, NFL analysts have commented ad nauseam about his inability to pick up the blitz. Doesn't tarnish his stud status,just a deficiency. And watch Gallman pick up the blitz this week, I won't have to say any more.

In comment 15065769 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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Not trying to be a dick but really? Watch some game replays from last year. My whole section at the stadium moans every time SB stayed in to block and missed the blitz pickup. Further, NFL analysts have commented ad nauseam about his inability to pick up the blitz. Doesn't tarnish his stud status,just a deficiency. And watch Gallman pick up the blitz this week, I won't have to say any more.

Not sure when we saw Gallman pick up a blitz, since he is ineffective on obvious passing downs and usually Lewis comes in. As I stated above, Gallman is barely used in the passing game. The stats show it, and I have him in fantasy and see it there too. I think this is just an opinion. Yes Barkley had pass blocking issues, and it was very public that he was working to improve in this area. I do not think Gallman is any better. There is a big difference in pass blocking on down 1, which basically means helping someone out, than picking up a blitzing LB on obvious passing plays. Both players can do the first one, its the latter they both (and many backs) struggle with.

I think I am clearly biased towards SB, however I don't think there is any area that Gallman is better than Barkley at. Barkley is a unique back. I believe the coaching believes this too, just based on how both players were used.

In comment 15065702 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 15065691 averagejoe said: Quote: Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ? Do you just make shit up?? Out of Barkley's 2344 yards, over 1700, or almost 2/3rds of them come from runs inside the tackles! Now of course, most runs go inside the tackles - but to say he can't run inside is patently absurd.

I don't think he's saying he can't run inside the tackles....obviously he does - plays go that way.

But there's no denying that Barkley has a tendency to dance and simply at times not take the 2-3 yards that are there......sometimes you have to take what's there and not hit a HR on every play.

I think an announcer on Fox said that in the Chicago game..........

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I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ?

Am I misrepresenting the words?

dancing and not hitting the hole.

Common denominator is a bad OL..

And is having a solid year, but let's be honest, you can pick up a guy with his production in the later rounds of the draft pretty easily.

In comment 15065778 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Quote: I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ? Am I misrepresenting the words?

No he literally said that lol......and I indicated he obviously goes between the tackles. I'm saying that his reference to stopping has to do with his Barkely having a tendency to dance (we saw this with Barry Sanders).

I see Barkely as a guy who will always get hit for a lot of losses, whether guys are crashing down the line (as in the Pitt game) or not.

Again, not trying to be a dick, but where are your stats of 2/3rds coming from or is that just your opinion?

In comment 15065788 GiantsRage2007 said:

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And is having a solid year, but let's be honest, you can pick up a guy with his production in the later rounds of the draft pretty easily.

I kinda agree with this.

I don't think you need to pay $3 mil for Gallman when you can find a similar skill set from a 4th or 5th rd draft pick.

In comment 15065791 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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Again, not trying to be a dick, but where are your stats of 2/3rds coming from or is that just your opinion?

That's FMIC, not me............

....but with extended play, he's gotten better, there's little doubt. He's taking advantage of his situation.

But having said that, I agree with the sentiment that you can get a similar back in the draft, mid-rounds.

You only bring him back a very reasonable price.

year's "down season", Saquon Barkley lead the NFL with 94 broken tackles. Christian McCaffrey was 2nd with 62.

Finished 2nd with 56 broken tackles on runs

Finished 1st with 38 missed tackles on receptions

In comment 15065807 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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year's "down season", Saquon Barkley lead the NFL with 94 broken tackles. Christian McCaffrey was 2nd with 62. Finished 2nd with 56 broken tackles on runs Finished 1st with 38 missed tackles on receptions

Well...if Saquon would just hit the open hole he wouldn't have to break so many damn tackles :)

JK - Saquon is a beast.

In comment 15065792 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065788 GiantsRage2007 said: Quote: And is having a solid year, but let's be honest, you can pick up a guy with his production in the later rounds of the draft pretty easily. I kinda agree with this. I don't think you need to pay $3 mil for Gallman when you can find a similar skill set from a 4th or 5th rd draft pick.

I almost agree. I don't think resigning Gallman is a crucial decision as you can see Morris is almost as complete a back. I point to the Giants own pick of Paul Perkins a 5th round pick out of UCLA. I don't think there is a guarantee on ANY pick but you know what you have in Gallman. The tougher question and its one we can put off for a year or so, is Barkley. Paying him or not. Two injuries in 3 years. He's top 3 RB in the league and will most likely deserved to be paid. What do we do then.....

In terms of how much that is going to cost the Giants when SB becomes eligible.

I think it's going to take the Giants 2 years to really figure out where SB is, and that's assuming he's back for the start of next year...which, as I said before, I'm not saying is a slam dunk.

there is a wealth of information on splits in the link below.

I can't link directly to the tackles/outside stats. It is part of a subscription service. I'll see if I can find them elsewhere
Saquon splits. Tabs have the other two years - ( New Window )

The idea that Gallam is better suited to run behind any scheme than he is would be as obviously silly to everyone as it should be.

Let’s see in a playoff game where the level of competition increases considerably who do you want to give 20-25 touches? Many here just can’t seem to realize the level of competition we have been playing to win four games, do the Giants have one win against a quality opponent?

Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC.

In comment 15065819 sb from NYT Forum said:

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Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC.

UMMM...Zeke is WAY better than MBIII ever was...

In comment 15065819 sb from NYT Forum said:

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Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC.

If you look at the tandem while Garrett was OC, it was Barber and Felix Jones. Neither of them ever got 100 yards, Barber averaged about .5 YPC less than Jones and Jones was the main receiving threat out of the backfield.

Put those two together and you have Barkley. That's what I was talking about this not being a "fit" issue for Garrett or a particular style. He's used different backs to do different things because he didn't have one that was all-purpose

should have said 1000 yards

It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year.

Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well.

I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run.

I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him.
Extending Barkley - ( New Window )

People need to go back and watch last season's OL play. IIRC Barkley literally was hit by a defender on over 50% of his runs behind the line of scrimmage. There were multiple times each game where Barkley was tackled immediately after taking the hand-off.

Here is video of Barkley week one. You will notice that the Steelers were constantly in the backfield just as Barkley receives the hand-off.
Link - ( New Window )

Defenses stack the box versus Barkley because they respect his ability. Defenses game plan to stop Barkley where Gallman does not receive that attention.

In comment 15065828 christian said:

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It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year. Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well. I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run. I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him. Extending Barkley - ( New Window )

That would be a HUGE gamble.

Has done a fabulous job and is a huge part of the Giants game plan this season, he has overcome his fumbling issues also and is a very good between the tackles runner. Barkley sometimes does hesitate and look for the big run instead of taking what is there in front of him. With that said, once Barkley is back it will take 1 play to go back to wanting Barkley out there every play, his talent level is off the charts and there is no system which would make anyone want Gallman ahead of Barkley. I do believe though that you can have Barkley and Gallman out on the field together, I think shifting Barkley into the slot, out wide, or both in the backfield can be used, also Gallman can be used to spell Barkley and used situationally, maybe running the ball to get those hard yards at the end of games to run out the clock. I believe there is a role for Gallman with Barkley, but Barkley is the lead dog, you add a top end reciever, with this Oline now, and with Barkley and you have the potential of being a top end offense, just seeing Barkley with this offensive will be fun, who knows what he can do.

Saquon Barkley is the Evan Engram of running backs.

His one healthy season, 5.0 per. Elite production. Over 2000 yards from scrimmage in 2018.

You can't say it's on Saquon's indecision in the backfield for negative plays when there were so many missed blocks. Break down his carries and chart them. See how many guys got in his face as soon as he got the ball. The indecisive thing is so overblown.

Further, Saquon changes the way teams defend the Giants, Gallman does not.

There is no "Gallman fits this scheme better." Show me the scheme in the NFL that Saquon doesn't fit? There's not a offensive coordinator in the league that wouldn't take Saquon in a heartbeat.

In comment 15065836 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065828 christian said: Quote: It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year. Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well. I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run. I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him. Extending Barkley - ( New Window ) That would be a HUGE gamble.

It wouldn't be a gamble at all, that's the thing. Barkley's 5th year option will be equal to the transition tender since he was an original ballot Pro Bowler in 2018.

That number for 2020 was -- 8,704,000. Unless the PA/League make changes to the tender amount as result of the cap dropping, the 2022 will be pretty close to that.

Essentially Barkley is going to make ~19M the next 2 years.

I'm saying there is an opportunity to use that guaranteed money as a down payment on an extension, and only add more guaranteed money if he returns to form.

- still needs to develop parts of his game like pass pro and being more decisive in hitting holes vs looking for HRs;
- has skills that are generational or just very good;
- should have been the #2 overall pick by Giants or not;
- should get a second contract from Giants or not;
- or Gallman is better at getting the so called "tough yards".

But seriously debating who is the better overall running back and who you would rather have carrying the ball in ANY SCHEME is quite comical.

but what if he's not the same player.

Is if Barkley is willing to agree to a team option after next season where they can void the deal in a year if Barkley is not the same player he was. It is way too big of a gamble to give him a new contract without knowing how he will recover from this injury. While I am confident that he will be a great player upon returning I am not willing to make a financial decision on him until I see how he rebounds.

It will likely take a year before Barkley returns to form so waiting to sign him until next season makes the most sense.

agreed 100%.

Great posts.

In comment 15065822 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065819 sb from NYT Forum said: Quote: Gallman's running style does remind me of Marion Barber III, his best RB when he was Dallas's OC. UMMM...Zeke is WAY better than MBIII ever was...

UMMM... read my post and check your dates. I said when Garrett was OC. Zeke was drafted in 2016, when Garrett was head coach. DERP!

my bad :)

Barkley’s future is cloudy. Who knows if he will ever reach his potential again, or even if he will be ready to play in Game 1 2021?

Gallman has proven to be a reliable backup and would be a good complementary or change of pace back. I think he has been more successful than Barkley inside the tackles, whereas Barkley appears to be much more of an off-tackle runner, hence the big plays and sometimes negative yards.

Unless the Giants are sure that Barkley will be ready to go for Game 1, the Giants must try to keep Gallman around. Every team in the league has at least one back who is as productive as Gallman so he is not going to get big offers elsewhere. He will get backup or “running back by committee” money. So he should get that with the Giants on a 1-year extension or a 2-year team friendly deal, unless he wants to move on to try to compete for a lead back role.

In comment 15065860 Jay on the Island said:

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Is if Barkley is willing to agree to a team option after next season where they can void the deal in a year if Barkley is not the same player he was. It is way too big of a gamble to give him a new contract without knowing how he will recover from this injury. While I am confident that he will be a great player upon returning I am not willing to make a financial decision on him until I see how he rebounds. It will likely take a year before Barkley returns to form so waiting to sign him until next season makes the most sense.

Exactly Jay. The reality is he's going to make at least 18M the next 2 years. What I'd like the Giants to do is give him that in the form of a bonus right now -- and then the rest of his guaranteed money be contingent on him returning to form next year.

If he doesn't return to form he's lost nothing and the Giant can walk away. If he does, he'll enjoy a lucrative deal in the range of his contemporaries.

had a superstar at RB and usually had a running game that was effective.

I think Barkley ultimately gets moved for picks within the next 2 years.

for the past 6 games, his yardage would have far eclipsed Gallman's. And that's no knock on Wayne Gallman who has filled in admirably.

makes me reluctant to sign Barkley to a long contract. Not sure a supreme RB is worth the money.

In comment 15065685 JonC said:

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and he's also at times missing the designated hole or cutback lane. He should improve with experience and better blocking.

I basically watched every game SB played at PSU. He's a free lancer by nature; and Franklin was okay with it because you can get away with it at the college level.

At best, I think SB's an average back running between the tackles. He doesn't have a real north-south mentality unless the hole is very clean.

So I'll believe it when I see it that SB adopts that discipline to hit the designated hole. There is a lot of muscle memory in that body to wait, wait, wait...bounce, bounce, bounce...and then ad-lib an opportunity.

He's great at his thing. But he ain't killing a clock and game like a Derrick Henry.

In fact it’s one of the reasons I supported drafting him even though I’m generally against taking “RB” high. It should be very interesting to see what type of player he looks like when he finally gets some blocking for first time since HS possibly.

extra big plays you get that you generally need to rely on the passing game for. His rookie year was nuts as far as plays over 40 yards historically. Like best of all time.

I understand using BB as what he does and doesn't do, but constantly saying the Pats don't do this, so why should we is kind of a bunk argument. There are certain types of players that BB literally never gets to look at because they go top 10. Everyone plays in their sandbox. Freak WRs, freak pass rushers, elite type RBs. Those guys almost always go top 10.

where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

In comment 15066096 UConn4523 said:

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where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

I swear to God people have amnesia from how poor our offensive line looked for 3 weeks and how teams were defending us. Legitametly 3 guys untouched as he's getting the handoff. Haven't seen anything like that. Some of that is teams were absolutely terrifed of Saquon, overwhelming our front, which had zero preseason. The funny part is nobody really plays like the same player until 2 years post ACL, but somehow I think people will think he got better because of the numbers he's going to put up with a competent offensive line. For some people, the end results are the only thing that matters completely ignoring football is the ultimate team sport. I'd image these same people have killed countless numbers of babies throwing out the bath water.

In comment 15066081 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In fact it’s one of the reasons I supported drafting him even though I’m generally against taking “RB” high. It should be very interesting to see what type of player he looks like when he finally gets some blocking for first time since HS possibly.

It’s a bummer the year the line got it together in the run game, Barkley is hurt. And the first year he’ll suit up behind a better line, he’ll be coming off surgery.

It sucks two of his prime years are getting wrapped up in this. Especially because I do think he has room to improve as a pass blocker, getting more depth on his pass routes, and turning some of those negative runs into positive plays.

prove a lot of people wrong when he returns. I'm excited about that prospect.

In comment 15066096 UConn4523 said:

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where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

I posted it several times on this thread. In the remainder of the chicago game and the next two games, we had 12 rushes for negative yardage.

It sort of dispels the idea that our backs fall forward and gain yardage while Barkley dances and gets dropped for losses due to his own deficiencies.

But then again, we are in a thread where the OP is arguing on his podcast that Gallman's running style is a better fit than Barkley in Garrett's offense. And on the pod, he's pretty adamant about it.

In comment 15066081 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In fact it’s one of the reasons I supported drafting him even though I’m generally against taking “RB” high. It should be very interesting to see what type of player he looks like when he finally gets some blocking for first time since HS possibly.

Donovan Smith was a bad OL at PSU? ;)

That I am not a fan of SB's running style.

So I tend to agree with the OP.

Terrible in pass pro, terrible in short yardage, and doesn’t do well picking up tough positive yards when the blocking isn’t there. Yes he’s a homerun threat and yes he’s a weapon in the passing game. He’s the same guy he was in college. Same issues.

Whether or not he’s the best fit for the identity Judge is trying to build is a legitimate question. He’s not a physical back. He’s not the kind of back that will wear down a defense in the playoffs and pay dividends in the 4th Quarter.

It’s a moot point considering the Giants are rolling with him for at least 2 more years, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they let him test the market when his rookie deal ends. It would probably be the best for the Giants.

Although Barkley’s 2021 cap number is $10.1MM, he’s only due $4.9MM next year. The rest is amortization of bonus money he already received, so that part is irrelevant to any potential extension.

In comment 15065836 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15065828 christian said: Quote: It's clear as day the Thomas/Lemieux/Gates left side is demonstrably better run blocking, and the Solder/Hernandez/Halapio (and really the whole line) let way too many direct tacklers into the backfield last year. Barkley was stood up in instant what seemed like many times a game. But Barkley is also a cut back and get-to-edge type back, and that contributes to many of those TFLs as well. I never thought the Barkley pick was the tragedy some make it out to be, even as I am skeptical his prime will coincide with the other stars aligning to make a championship run. I posted this in another thread, I think right now is actually a great time to extend him. Extending Barkley - ( New Window ) That would be a HUGE gamble.

I think his point is that we could probably get him at somewhat of a discount (relatively speaking). Maybe we could have a superstar RB but on a contract that doesn’t break the bank. It would still be expensive and a risk of course, but we’d be betting on a 23 year old torn ACL Saquon’s future in this league. Is it worth it? Possibly. Knowing Saquon’s work ethic and drive, and his otherworldly physical abilities, I would lean toward betting on him! I honestly get the feeling he’s a freak of nature and just young enough to rehab and get back to the same player he was physically by the time he’s 25 or 26. If he was a couple years older I’d say no, but I think this kid is built differently and he’s still pretty damn young.

At the 2021 number, which hasn’t been calculated yet. In 2020, it was $8.5mm. Over the cap projects it to be $8.7mm.

How many times is he going to get tripped up by a shoestring tackle when he is about to break one? He works hard to get extra yards in between the tackles, but he has as many 20+ yard runs this year as Alfred Morris.

is said to be "terrible" in a certain facet, it certainly is used as hyperbole to make him seem less than an excellent back.

In comment 15066314 Mike in NY said:

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How many times is he going to get tripped up by a shoestring tackle when he is about to break one? He works hard to get extra yards in between the tackles, but he has as many 20+ yard runs this year as Alfred Morris.

Agreed, he should switch to velcro.

In comment 15066096 UConn4523 said:

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where were these posts his rookie year? Where were they when he got going after the HAS healed last year when he closed out the season with 540 total yards and 5 TDs his last 3 games? How come after the first 4 or 5 games of the season every thread was about Thomas being a bust and the rest of the OL sucking - wouldn’t that effect the running backs or no?

The posts weren’t there from the majority on here, I believe..The naysayers largely opined that Darnold should have been the pick. Some said Allen or Rosen

.

You get an OC who is bright enough to design a scheme to maximize his talents.

Much easier to replace a mediocre OC than a talent like SB.