Wayne Gallman

But Saquon is an infinitely better back. Much more explosive and much better out of the backfield. Saquon has 2 very glaring weakness, pass protection and too many tackles for losses due to indecisiveness in the backfield. Both are coachable. If he gets those 2 points corrected he’s the best RB in the league by a nice margin IMO.

my untrained eye, it appears they went from a zone blocking scheme with Barkley to a power blocking scheme with Gallman. It could be about the lineman and not so much about the RB?

working behind this improving OL

longest run is 27 yards.

There have been several plays that if Barkley hits the same hole, he's taking it all the way.

Look, Gallman has been a solid back and he's grinding out yards, but his YPC isn't great and he leaves a lot of big plays on the field. He would be excellent as a complementary back. As the lead guy, he's solid but unspectacular.

In comment 15065645 Big Blue '56 said:

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working behind this improving OL

This

In comment 15065647 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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longest run is 27 yards. There have been several plays that if Barkley hits the same hole, he's taking it all the way. Look, Gallman has been a solid back and he's grinding out yards, but his YPC isn't great and he leaves a lot of big plays on the field. He would be excellent as a complementary back. As the lead guy, he's solid but unspectacular.

Do you think Barkley finds those holes? I'm curious, that is what I am skeptical about.

The key for SB is to improve his ability to see and hit a hole hard. It's a balance between vision and patience, and he's often making the wrong decision which leads to dancing or hitting an OL in the back.

why does one player have to be vaulted up while the other guy has to be condemned every time something like this happens?

Barkley doesn't find the holes yet he's averaged over 4 YPC since entering the NFL all the while he's been running behind a trash OL.

You're manufacturing a story that isn't there.

One of the most overrated stats fans use to peg backs. Gallman is very good he’s missing breakaway speed. That’s really all he’s missing as far as a skill set. Is he better than saquon? Of course he’s not better but he does find a lot of yardage that saquon would not. Gallman is willing to take what’s given he’s a more powerful runner than saquon.

if he comes back at close to his former self. Just watch. Then the next debate will be should the Giants pay him, which of course they will and half of BBI will lose their shit.

If Gallman was as talented as SB then his style fits this o-line/scheme better. I agree with that.

We are FAR better with SB back there, no one is debating that.

In comment 15065658 Tuckrule said:

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One of the most overrated stats fans use to peg backs. Gallman is very good he’s missing breakaway speed. That’s really all he’s missing as far as a skill set. Is he better than saquon? Of course he’s not better but he does find a lot of yardage that saquon would not. Gallman is willing to take what’s given he’s a more powerful runner than saquon.

Gallman gets yardage Barkley would not? Really? Based on what? The last 6 games when the OL finally came together?

I guess we ignore 2018.

people act like Barkley is a guy who can't find his way out of a box?? He was hamstrung by terrible blocking prior to injury, but he has shown the ability to find those holes and make big plays. Why has everyone blocked out of their heads his first two seasons??

All I've heard about him this year is that he continually dances and can't pass block worth a damn.

If you go back and look at the Bears game and the two games following his injury, we had 12 runs that went as losses. It has been the improvement in the run blocking, as well as Gallman's hard running that has helped.

Gallman, even in this year we speak glowingly of him, will likely reach only 700 yards and average 4 YPC.

Barkley hit 1000 yards his first two seasons and averages 4.7YPC

In comment 15065662 Capt. Don said:

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If Gallman was as talented as SB then his style fits this o-line/scheme better. I agree with that. We are FAR better with SB back there, no one is debating that.

People are most definitely debating it.

Your reading too much into what I wrote. By finding yards I mean taking a 2 yard gain by lowering your heading into the A gap. Saquon tries to make stuff happen on plays where he should be okay with 2 yards. He does lose yardage that I believe gallman wouldn’t. Gallman doesn’t dance he’s the epitome of a one cut runner north south runner. That’s all I’m saying.

interesting takes from multiple people and I don't think anyone is wrong. Gallman's ability to see the hole, hit it and fall forward is fantastic. But on the secondary level he's not making that move to get himself into the open field to take it to the house.

On the other hand, you've got SB who misses some holes, dances around in the backfield, and takes some TFLs but man can he make people miss, shake the last guy at the second level and take it to the house.

Is there room on the roster for both? Are there enough plays to go around for both? Can you run an offense effectively using both? Is SB going to worth the money to keep? Is GAllman worth the money to keep if we still have SB?

It's a good problem to have - but I'm really curious to see how the Giants front office and coaching staff sees this backfield shaping up in the short and long terms.

YPC I see is big for you. Do yourself a favor. Go back every single game and eliminate all of gallman as goal line runs as well as fourth quarter runs wasting the clock running into a 9 man box. Then figure out his actual ypc. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Also your yardage totals for the year. Let’s remember he split carries. It wasn’t up until last week where he was the true feature back

Penn State also had a zone blocking scheme (with often poor run blocking), so he's gotten used to have to make defenders miss in the backfield. Give him some good blocking (like Gallman is seeing) and he'll be fine. It seems like everyone but Giants fans remember how good Barkley was in 2018 and can be.

Pass pro and getting skinny.

Saquon's issues with pass pro are well documented.

I like Gallman's ability to get skinny in narrow holes, he's built slim and his decision making (and OL) have improved, so when he gets that narrow opening, he slides through and falls forward.

But I think Saquon with this OL, we may be at .500 or better. He would have taken some of those runs to the house. And he would force those LBs up because of his speed, opening up the deep passing which has been tough due to cover 2.

In comment 15065668 Dnew15 said:

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interesting takes from multiple people and I don't think anyone is wrong. Gallman's ability to see the hole, hit it and fall forward is fantastic. But on the secondary level he's not making that move to get himself into the open field to take it to the house. On the other hand, you've got SB who misses some holes, dances around in the backfield, and takes some TFLs but man can he make people miss, shake the last guy at the second level and take it to the house. Excellent post and 100 percent how I see it. Is there room on the roster for both? Are there enough plays to go around for both? Can you run an offense effectively using both? Is SB going to worth the money to keep? Is GAllman worth the money to keep if we still have SB? It's a good problem to have - but I'm really curious to see how the Giants front office and coaching staff sees this backfield shaping up in the short and long terms.

In comment 15065671 Tuckrule said:

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YPC I see is big for you. Do yourself a favor. Go back every single game and eliminate all of gallman as goal line runs as well as fourth quarter runs wasting the clock running into a 9 man box. Then figure out his actual ypc. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Also your yardage totals for the year. Let’s remember he split carries. It wasn’t up until last week where he was the true feature back

It isn't YPC that I'm focused on. It is the ability to make the big play. But it is foolish to talk about eliminating runs when calculating YPC. Barkley is taking some of the runs we've seen from Gallman and Morris that are 7-10 yards and making them much longer. He was "dancing" because of the terrible blocking.

Again - in the Bears game after Barkley was hurt and the next two games the backs combined for 12 runs for losses. Were they dancing too or was it possible that the blocking still sucked?

could possibly have had one or two breakaway home runs each game. There is no comparison between Gallman and Barkley talentwise. They're even on the same planet.

Gallman deserves a lot of credit for being a guy that runs hard every play, runs between the tackles, doesn't shy away from contact, makes yards after contact and is a willing and decent blocker.

Barkley in his first 31 games has done those things rarely or poorly. It will be interesting to see if he comes back healthy and regains his form how the Giants use him. The film doesn't lie Judge knows what he has and what he doesn't have.

He is so overdeveloped, can his tendons and ligaments withstand all that torque over and over for 16 + games?

very good-to-above-average RB's, with different skill sets. Especially b/c of the high rate of injury at the position.

Earnest Byner and Kevin Mack
Marcus Allen and Bo Jackson
Fred Taylor and MJD
Tomlinson and Sproles
Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams
Jacobs and Ward
Jacobs and Bradshaw

In comment 15065665 djm said:

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In comment 15065662 Capt. Don said: Quote: If Gallman was as talented as SB then his style fits this o-line/scheme better. I agree with that. We are FAR better with SB back there, no one is debating that. People are most definitely debating it.

On this thread? Who?

that Barkley had the most yards after contact in 2018, right?

Now a lot of that was because he was getting hit in the backfield, but let's not make it seem like Gallman is plowing people over and Barkley goes down like a feather.

Is because he’s running behind an OL that has finally learned to run block. If Saqon had those openings he’d be blowing the joint up.

and he's also at times missing the designated hole or cutback lane. He should improve with experience and better blocking.

Good #2 back. Gets some tough yards while the big guy gets a breather. He's doing a great job providing a real running game, and I hope he's back as SB backup for next year

It's a fair point. He's missed over a third of the games his first 3 seasons and last year he played ineffectively because of injury in about half the games he did play.

Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ?

In comment 15065681 FranknWeezer said:

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very good-to-above-average RB's, with different skill sets. Especially b/c of the high rate of injury at the position. Earnest Byner and Kevin Mack Marcus Allen and Bo Jackson Fred Taylor and MJD Tomlinson and Sproles Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams Jacobs and Ward Jacobs and Bradshaw

Because this is about to be a very expensive luxury really soon.

Look I have always liked Gallman and I hope that he is re-signed to the right price but he is also benefitting from improved play from the OL especially run blocking. Every game there are a few solid runs by RB's where they pick up 10-13 yards where Barkley would have taken it 60-70 for a TD.

Gallman had a great run up the middle against the Bengals where he almost broke one but he was tripped up by the defender. Barkley would have turned that into a huge TD run.

The OL that we see now versus the one we saw the first two weeks of the season is vastly different.

In comment 15065691 averagejoe said:

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Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ?

Do you just make shit up??

Out of Barkley's 2344 yards, over 1700, or almost 2/3rds of them come from runs inside the tackles! Now of course, most runs go inside the tackles - but to say he can't run inside is patently absurd.

I somewhat agree the blocking schemes have changed to accommodate running style. While there is no question Saquan is the more talented and explosive back, let's not forget that he led the league in carries for negative yards. Yeah, cue up the poor blocking, blah, blah, blah, but Saquan does way to much stutter stepping instead of hitting the hole while Gallman bursts through the line with deciseness and breaks tackle after tackle.

What I think it comes down to is, is it better to have the big play ability or the ability to move the chains? If moving the chains is more important, Gallman is the guy in THIS offense. Don't misinterpret, overall in a perfect world, it's a no brainer, you want Saquan in the backfield.

In comment 15065691 averagejoe said:

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Barkley does not. Gallman has been running right past the first guy that tackles Barkley for a three yard loss because Barkley STOPS when receiving handoff and loses all momentum. Giant offense has improved without Barkley's TFL's and it is very obvious. I hope Barkley is able to come back strong but how much can you expect from a RB that does not run inside or block ?

This is purposefully ignorant.

Some of you are expecting Gallman to sign a contract for $7+ million per season this offseason despite the fact that the cap is going DOWN and there are 10 teams over the salary cap as of today. Don't forget that Gallman's career high for rushing yards in a season is 476 which he will likely break this season but he won't smash that. Honestly he is looking at a new contract for about $2.5-3 million per season for 2-3 years.

I like what he brings to the table. But I don't know how the current coaching staff feels about him.

Let's not forget, the Giants went out and brought in a street FA RB that couldn't find a place to play and immediately gave him more snaps than Gallman.

He keeps his pad level low and waits for blocks and ALWAYS falls forward. He wears down defenses with his running style and makes the pass game better as a result.

I think Barkley's dancing is significantly overhyped. In his rookie year, he seemed to get much better (although never bad) at hitting the holes hard. Our line sucked pretty hard so he did have carries in which a normal running back had no shot but he made some plays based on his unique talents.

Last year, he came back from an injury soo soon and he couldn't make the same plays he made his rookie year. The line probably sucked even harder last year.

Saquon has Barry Sanders' like talents but I don't think we will have to endure the 1 , 2, -1, 3, 2, 1, 2 , -1, 60 yard running stats. I think with our focus on building the offensive line and power running, Saquon's line will look more like 4, 4, 5, 12, 50, 8. He is that good.




I do want to bring up one scenario however... The premise of a highly skilled back vs. multiple running backs who always fall forward.

I'll take 2004-2006 as the 1st example. Tiki was basically Mozart in the backfield. He put up huge rushing stats but never seemed to get hit hard. He used his blockers incredibly effective and put up amazing stats. He was the focus on the offense and their best player.

He retires and the offense looks better. Why? Because we had an identify of pounding the football. Jacobs, Ward, Bradshaw and even Ruben Droughns earlier in the year rotated in and out. Every one of those guys fell forward after almost every run. You run the ball like that for 35 times a game with fresh running backs and it will take it's toll on the defense.






Barkely is a huge weapon. I don't want to see him get burnt out by running the ball 25 times a game. I'd love for the Giants to keep a Gallman or get someone else and split the carries. Gallman/rookie at about 12-15 with Barkely 15-18. Barkely will also get more touches in air by being a receiver.




PS. I don't think Gallman is very effective in pass pro yet.

In comment 15065705 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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Yeah, cue up the poor blocking, blah, blah, blah,

I don't think you can "blah, blah, blah" the level of run blocking the Giants have had the last few years. I do think Barkley at times can dance too much, but again I think a lot of that is learned behavior from years of poor zone blocking. He should definitely improve with experience. The biggest thing is staying healthy.

need to go back and watch the first 2 games. Barkley hardly had time to even get the handoff before 3 or 4 defensive players were on him. Dancing? He had nowhere to go. As the offensive line goes, so does our running backs.

As far as ypc, sure we can take away all of gallmans short yardage situations and goal line situations if we can take away all of barkleys tackles for loss too. It works both ways.

It is no coincidence that as our offensive line has played well, so has the running game regardless of who is running the ball. This is not a knock on gallman as he is running the ball well, but he lacks break away speed.

I can't wait to see Barkley behind an improved offensive line that will give him space to create big running plays.

Barkley is arguably the best receiver among the RB's in the NFL.

In comment 15065647 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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longest run is 27 yards. There have been several plays that if Barkley hits the same hole, he's taking it all the way. Look, Gallman has been a solid back and he's grinding out yards, but his YPC isn't great and he leaves a lot of big plays on the field. He would be excellent as a complementary back. As the lead guy, he's solid but unspectacular.

This is the correct sentiment.

Also add that we have seen times where Barkley dance a bit or try to find the big play versus a few tough yards. Gallman does this less.

But let's not make it out that Barkley also doesn't have numerous runs where he simply ran thru a hole or gap for a nice gain. We have seen it happen. It just didn't happen consistently enough because his shitty OL didn't create as many gaps for as they are now for Gallman.

Not sure where this is going either. If they were both healthy and available in the next draft...who are picking first? I don't care what scheme Garrett is or is not running.

How the OL was so bad that some people wanted Nick Gates cut after the game because he struggled mightily against a great defense. Then the Giants went up against another great defense in Chicago where Barkley was injured half way through the game.

In comment 15065713 Jay on the Island said:

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Barkley is arguably the best receiver among the RB's in the NFL.

This is exactly it. I think the Giants need to utilize Barkley + Gallman like Kamara+Murray in New Orleans. It will make Barkley more, not less effective.

is more suited to Garrett's scheme, but the gap in talent between him and Saquon is notable. That is on Saquon to stop dancing so much, and take what the defense gives him more often.

I think Barkley will have some incredible success behind a much improved line and am looking forward to seeing it! Spielman was kind of on point with Gallman always 'falling forward'. It SEEMS that when nothing is there or Gallman is hit behind the line he'll go down quicker than Barkley but will not lose as many yards or get back to the LOS. Barkley doesn't go down as easily and will look to turn it into something. With the line being as porous as it was, his 1 or 2 yard losses would turn into 3 or 4 and it sucked. Kind of similar to Jones trying to make EVERY play a positive and either fumbling or throwing an INT. But as FMiC said, a lot of those runs where Gallman is just about to break it is where Barkley does break it of and if not a td its a big gain. If I had my druthers I'd take both. Barkley's talent makes defenses scheme differently and would benefit everyone on the team, WG included.

In comment 15065717 Lionhart28 said:

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In comment 15065713 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Barkley is arguably the best receiver among the RB's in the NFL. This is exactly it. I think the Giants need to utilize Barkley + Gallman like Kamara+Murray in New Orleans. It will make Barkley more, not less effective.

I agree with this, it's a great comparison.

THe real question about this scenario is: is it a good idea to throw this much money into the RB position.
The Murray/Kamara comparison is also great from a cap allocation perspective as well.

Murray is making 3.2 mil and Kamara is making almost 16 mil.

That's a lot of money to pay for your RBs.

garbage since being drafted. Thgis line developing this year will benefit Barkley tremendously next year, especially if he becomes more decisive in his reads.