for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Optimist View on Giants moving forward

CMicks3110 : 12/27/2020 8:09 pm
I am an optimist about the Giants situation. Sure the last 3 games have not been what we had hoped, especially after our showing in Seattle. It would have been nice to really take that next step and sneak into the playoffs with some momentum. If we make the playoffs next week, it won't be quite the same since it will be more like backing in, so I hope we beat Dallas, but I don't want to make the playoffs because I don't think we really deserve to be there.

But why am I optimistic? The three main reason is that

(1) I see fewer holes on this roster than I've seen in years past; and that the remaining holes could potentially be mostly filled in 1 off-season, not 2-3.

(2) I have a lot of faith in Judge, as a motivator, a program builder, he's a man on a mission. I like that he is very invested in team culture, and also holding not only players accountable, but coaches too. I imagine Jason Garrett is on the hot-seat, and we'll see what happens there.

(3) I think fans are really misreading our cap situation. We are *not* in cap hell. We have over $100 mil in cap space after 2021, and can create a lot more with cuts, restructures, etc. We have no big money tied to major cost areas such as QB, WR, ED, OT. Our two biggest contracts are Zeitler and Solder, both of whom will be gone within 2 years tops. We also have internal players worth spending on now (Williams, Tomlinson, Peppers)

Now I realize some of those holes that are filled, are filled with players that are still question marks, such as QB (Jones), RB (Barkley's health), TE (Engram's Enigma), OT (are Thomas/Peart bookends?), but there are at least pieces there that have flashed big league potential. (Thomas, Peart, Lemieux, McKinney, Slayton, Williams, Gates, Martinez, Peppers, Tomlinson, Bradberry, Holmes)

unlike in '17, '18, '19 when we were saddled with a QB on his last legs, a bunch of bad contracts, average coaching, a bunch of stop gap vets (Remmers, Omameh, Barwin, Ogletree, Flowers, Apple, Latimer, Tate, Halapio, Mayo, Bthea, Casillas all received significant starting time) we now have a young core of potentially ascending pieces.

We should be able, given our cap situation re-sign our key pieces (Williams, Tomlinson, Ryan [already done]) and add 1 key free agent, and possibly a few role playres.

Now it seems we'll get another top 10 pick, and I see some bright things happening next year, especially in a division on the downturn.

We'll see what happens, but the NYG future, in my view, is looking the brightest it has in years.

Also, don't sweat the Baltimore game too much, they were blowing teams out. They had the highest point differential in the NFL and play in probably the toughest division as well, their record would be better if they hadn't dealt with Covid, and Lamar Jackson is just a unique talent.



Regardless of what you think of Daniel Jones, I still think he's better than Eli was for the last 4-5 years of his career



I’m in  
BillT : 12/27/2020 8:16 pm : link
Think this is a reasonable view.
We’re gonna suck for the next 10 years  
JoeyBigBlue : 12/27/2020 8:22 pm : link
According to the doom and gloomers on BBI. Don’t believe otherwise.
Really good post Cmicks  
LBH15 : 12/27/2020 8:23 pm : link
But they still suck...a lot. So much still wrong or needing upgrading or just tinkering. So much.

Sitting back somewhere in 2017, I would have never thought it could take this long to put a better team on the field. Even with the Eli problem.

If you are supporting Gettleman, you better bring it this week because I am so tired of him and his BBI defenders.
Jones was sacked 6 times today.  
NYRiese : 12/27/2020 8:25 pm : link
The OL is still not fixed!
.
And is wanting!
In some ways I was more optimistic after last year  
BestFeature : 12/27/2020 8:26 pm : link
Not sure how Barkley will rebound and I'm not a Jones hater but have to admit he's a question mark right now. Moreso than last year when I was very optimistic.
A return to health (fingers crossed) of SB  
Big Blue '56 : 12/27/2020 8:26 pm : link
should be huge for DJ..More WR talent would help of course
I agree  
fireitup77 : 12/27/2020 8:26 pm : link
I think the pieces are there for the online. Thomas actually played quite well today. Get Barkley back and add a top end wr. Replace JG with an OC that runs a decent scheme.

On D get a second cb that can play man. Let's remember we are playing with our number 6 and 7 outside linebackers right now. Re-sign LW. I'd like another inside lber that can play all the downs.

This team isn't as far away as most here think. Next year people will be saying "look at the giants, see how fast they turned out around"
RE: Jones was sacked 6 times today.  
LBH15 : 12/27/2020 8:29 pm : link
In comment 15095465 NYRiese said:
Quote:
The OL is still not fixed!
.
And is wanting!


It’s not. But it’s also not because the Offense is so bad as to QB and weapons so the OL is exposed.

Score. Score and the OL will develop. Please score 20 points someday.
You lost all credibility with this statement...  
JCin332 : 12/27/2020 8:29 pm : link
Quote:
Regardless of what you think of Daniel Jones, I still think he's better than Eli was for the last 4-5 years of his career


Eli 2015-18 averaged 25 TD passes and 13 int's.

If they had QB play like that this year they would probably have 3 or 4 more wins and already locked up the division...
I dream we can add Micah Parson  
CMicks3110 : 12/27/2020 8:31 pm : link
and put him next to Martinez; along with our safeties, the middle of the field, and our run defense will be tough sledding for most offenses; if we add a credible rusher and a CB2, and the defense can be quite good.
RE: I dream we can add Micah Parson  
JoeyBigBlue : 12/27/2020 8:49 pm : link
In comment 15095492 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
and put him next to Martinez; along with our safeties, the middle of the field, and our run defense will be tough sledding for most offenses; if we add a credible rusher and a CB2, and the defense can be quite good.


We have huge needs at Edge, CB2, WR, and TE and you want a second ILB? Really???
this team doesn't have 1 skill position player on offense  
GiantsFan84 : 12/27/2020 8:57 pm : link
that is a foundational piece. not 1
Respectfully, it's crazy to say Jone's is better than any version of..  
The Truth : 12/27/2020 9:02 pm : link
Eli. Eli played better with a far worse Oline. Jones has showed us nothing.
RE: You lost all credibility with this statement...  
uconngiant : 12/27/2020 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15095484 JCin332 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Regardless of what you think of Daniel Jones, I still think he's better than Eli was for the last 4-5 years of his career



Eli 2015-18 averaged 25 TD passes and 13 int's.

If they had QB play like that this year they would probably have 3 or 4 more wins and already locked up the division...


In his prime I agree, but then again you can't hit receivers that don't get open. Manning had Cruz, Plax, Beckham, Nicks, Smith and others. No comparison
I agree about Judge  
Ike#88 : 12/27/2020 10:23 pm : link
We are not winning but this team could have been drubbed today and they kept fighting. He has them sticking together. Considering we have no threat on offense right now that is saying something for the defense not to pack it in. Not sure who would be the better choice but I am not confident Garrett is going to maximize our play on offense. If Jones has plateaued it will set us back a long time. No matter how much we improve the rest of the team.
RE: RE: I dream we can add Micah Parson  
beatrixkiddo : 12/27/2020 10:37 pm : link
In comment 15095533 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15095492 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


and put him next to Martinez; along with our safeties, the middle of the field, and our run defense will be tough sledding for most offenses; if we add a credible rusher and a CB2, and the defense can be quite good.



We have huge needs at Edge, CB2, WR, and TE and you want a second ILB? Really???


Parsons isn’t solely and ILB, he is a jack of all trades 3 down LB, one that can make plays sideline to sideline and be the face of this defense. He would instantly help us out and be perfect fit in the Patrick Graham defense as he can be used in multiple rolls. Parsons is on the top of my wish list in RD 1 as well if we are lucky to have him fall to us.

RE: this team doesn't have 1 skill position player on offense  
CT Charlie : 12/27/2020 10:53 pm : link
In comment 15095552 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
that is a foundational piece. not 1


I'm not sure Saquon – or any player in the NFL who's faced him – would agree that he plays a non-skill position.
RE: You lost all credibility with this statement...  
kes722 : 12/28/2020 1:17 am : link
In comment 15095484 JCin332 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Regardless of what you think of Daniel Jones, I still think he's better than Eli was for the last 4-5 years of his career



Eli 2015-18 averaged 25 TD passes and 13 int's.

If they had QB play like that this year they would probably have 3 or 4 more wins and already locked up the division...


Why not compare Eli 2nd years vs Jones 2nd year?

Eli had plax Toomer shockey Tiki and a far better O line in 05 and still only completed 52% of his passes.

Name one player that started today that could have made that team let alone start
Are you seriously suggested that playing QB in 2020  
Greg from LI : 12/28/2020 1:30 am : link
is anything like 2005? The league has never been more passer-friendly.
Good post  
montanagiant : 12/28/2020 3:53 am : link
CMicks!
RE: Jones was sacked 6 times today.  
section125 : 12/28/2020 4:20 am : link
In comment 15095465 NYRiese said:
Quote:
The OL is still not fixed!
.
And is wanting!


3 consecutive plays against Peart in one series. Oh and Jared Goff was sacked at least 6 times by the Seahawks.
RE: Are you seriously suggested that playing QB in 2020  
section125 : 12/28/2020 4:22 am : link
In comment 15095935 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
is anything like 2005? The league has never been more passer-friendly.


It is if somebody is there to catch the ball - it takes two to tango.
CMicks3110  
M.S. : 12/28/2020 6:36 am : link

Interesting, thoughtful post. Would be nice if your optimistic assessment turns out to be true. Here are your first two points and my comments below each one:

(1) "I see fewer holes on this roster than I've seen in years past; and that the remaining holes could potentially be mostly filled in 1 off-season, not 2-3."

I agree there may be fewer holes, but IMO this is NOT a 1 off-season fix. The Giants need a serious, top flight #1 WR, and the same goes for a true two-way #1 TE. And they need a serious EDGE presence which will prevent QBs from taking a vacation every time they drop back to pass. And that assumes we have the right pieces in place for an effective offensive line, and that Daniel Jones' game will continue to improve after a down sophomore season. That's no guarantee.


(2) "I have a lot of faith in Judge, as a motivator, a program builder, he's a man on a mission. I like that he is very invested in team culture, and also holding not only players accountable, but coaches too. I imagine Jason Garrett is on the hot-seat, and we'll see what happens there."

After the Seattle game I would agree with this 100%. But his team got easily handled in the next three crucial games (playing outright embarrassingly in two of them). Yesterday, the defense came out of the locker room dead as a doornail and raised the white flag in the 2nd quarter. That's not a good reflection on the Head Coach.
RE: CMicks3110  
EricJ : 12/28/2020 6:43 am : link
In comment 15095968 M.S. said:
Quote:


After the Seattle game I would agree with this 100%. But his team got easily handled in the next three crucial games (playing outright embarrassingly in two of them). Yesterday, the defense came out of the locker room dead as a doornail and raised the white flag in the 2nd quarter. That's not a good reflection on the Head Coach.


In prior years, there were discussions here about the team quitting. I really do not see that this year despite playing poorly.
good post cmicks  
Victor in CT : 12/28/2020 7:45 am : link
very reasonable take
RE: Are you seriously suggested that playing QB in 2020  
Victor in CT : 12/28/2020 7:47 am : link
In comment 15095935 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
is anything like 2005? The league has never been more passer-friendly.


that team was stacked, with top OL, RB, WRs and TE. Short memories abound. Sports radio was loaded with yahoos calling for Eli's head right up until he picked up the Lombardi trophy.
RE: RE: You lost all credibility with this statement...  
HomerJones45 : 12/28/2020 8:37 am : link
In comment 15095621 uconngiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15095484 JCin332 said:


Quote:




Quote:


Regardless of what you think of Daniel Jones, I still think he's better than Eli was for the last 4-5 years of his career



Eli 2015-18 averaged 25 TD passes and 13 int's.

If they had QB play like that this year they would probably have 3 or 4 more wins and already locked up the division...



In his prime I agree, but then again you can't hit receivers that don't get open. Manning had Cruz, Plax, Beckham, Nicks, Smith and others. No comparison
The receivers at Duke got all the blame for Jones' draft report issues and the receivers are getting the blame for his lack of accomplishment as a pro. Hmmmm, what is the common denominator between the two groups?
RE: RE: Are you seriously suggested that playing QB in 2020  
HomerJones45 : 12/28/2020 8:38 am : link
In comment 15096000 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15095935 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


is anything like 2005? The league has never been more passer-friendly.



that team was stacked, with top OL, RB, WRs and TE. Short memories abound. Sports radio was loaded with yahoos calling for Eli's head right up until he picked up the Lombardi trophy.
Check your own memory. Yahoos blamed the OC, Hufnagel and then Coughlin. I don't recall anyone claiming Manning should be cut and the position re-drafted.
RE: good post cmicks  
HomerJones45 : 12/28/2020 8:46 am : link
In comment 15095997 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
very reasonable take
Really? The team is 5-10; a similar record to the disgraced McAdoo before he was canned, and basically Shurmur's record his first year. McAdoo got a 100 million dollar spend on defensive players and went 11-5. St. Joe got 75 million spend on defensive players (three of which had career years) and is hoping to go 6-10 in a division where there should be 5 or 6 wins within the division, and his team hasn't shown up the last two weeks for their playoff hunt. Seems there are a lot of blue-colored glasses required to read that post.
The statement by the OP was DJ has been better than Eli in his  
JCin332 : 12/28/2020 9:01 am : link
last 4 or 5 years...which is not the case...

No one is debating that the Giants had better talent in 2005 than 2020...in fact, it's not even close...


Giants have some key pieces but do not go overboard  
chick310 : 12/28/2020 9:08 am : link
with this thinking that the roster still doesn't need a pretty damn big overhaul.

Very few positions/players that you can say the team should be satisfied with for now. Everything is on the board for 2021 free agency and draft.

RE: Are you seriously suggested that playing QB in 2020  
Matt M. : 12/28/2020 9:15 am : link
In comment 15095935 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
is anything like 2005? The league has never been more passer-friendly.
Throw in we had the least QB friendly system in the league.
Back to the Corner