Allen:
58%
3089 yards
20 TDs
9 Interceptions
14 fumbles
47.9 QBR
85.3 Rate
Jones:
62%
2714 yards
9 tds
9 int
10 fumbles
QBR 63.3
Rate 78.9
Conclusion: as you can see, Allen wasn’t really any better except in TD passes thrown. I didn’t show this but I’m sure Josh Allen scored more tds with his legs too.
The point I want to make is simply this.....Josh Allen took off in year 3, not year 2. Sure his team won 10 games in year 2 while Jones probably wins 6. But Allen’s team primarily won because of their top tier defense, which Jones doesn’t have.
Allen took off when the Bills got him STEFON DIGGS, a true #1 receiver. Let’s watch and then judge Jones if and when we can get him such a toy to play with. Oh, I also think it would help Jones greatly to give him an OC who is creative and not old school like Garrett. After all, Jones did throw for 24 tds and over 300 yards often as a rookie in Shurmur’s offense.
Or wide open dropped potential td passes or multiple dropped end zone tds..
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Or wide open dropped potential td passes or multiple dropped end zone tds..
Like you, I watch the Giants more often and more closely than any other team. So I can't say for certain that other teams have this tragedy befall them, but I suspect all QBs have TDs dropped, and still throw more TDs than DJ has.
But if it is a more prevalent issue among Giants receivers, I guess that's another feather in the cap of that tremendous GM we have building the roster!
Your expertise on DJ is impressive
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In comment 15099157 Greg from LI said:
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Or wide open dropped potential td passes or multiple dropped end zone tds..
Like you, I watch the Giants more often and more closely than any other team. So I can't say for certain that other teams have this tragedy befall them, but I suspect all QBs have TDs dropped, and still throw more TDs than DJ has.
But if it is a more prevalent issue among Giants receivers, I guess that's another feather in the cap of that tremendous GM we have building the roster!
Of course it happens. We absolutely need upgraded WRs
And let's not even get into the difference in athleticism or the rocket launcher Allen is packing.
All posters are doing launching into these comparisons is embarrassing themselves.
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I'm sure next season when Jones doesn't sniff Allen's 3rd year there will be plenty of new excuses and alternate comparisons.
Your expertise on DJ is impressive
If we're going to make year to year comparisons, Jones better get to that level.
My recollection is that Allen was pitched as a project while Jones was supposed to be close to pro ready.
And let's not even get into the difference in athleticism or the rocket launcher Allen is packing.
All posters are doing launching into these comparisons is embarrassing themselves.
It really is embarrassing.
More evidence most posters either don't watch other players or don't know what they are watching...
Different Head Coach.
Different OC.
Rookies all over the OL.
No training camp this year.
Loses his best RB.
No one to throw the ball to of note.
I personally think we need to give this coaching staff and our young players the benefit of a training camp and more coaching from this current staff before we start tearing it down again.
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In comment 15099161 rsjem1979 said:
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I'm sure next season when Jones doesn't sniff Allen's 3rd year there will be plenty of new excuses and alternate comparisons.
Your expertise on DJ is impressive
If we're going to make year to year comparisons, Jones better get to that level.
Get him a healed SB back and receiver upgrades and he will, I believe..If he doesn’t than he may not be too long for this team.
Or you could simply look at the progress each made from year one to year two. Allen went from 10 passing TDs to 20, while bringing INTs down from 12 to 9. Jones went from 24/12 to 9/9.
So the takeaway is if you want to look at stats, Allen improved significantly from year 1 to year 2, while Jones regressed.
The trajectories they are both on could not be more dissimilar.
In 2019 that jumped to 10-6, including 4 fourth quarter comebacks and 5 game winning drives. Bills offense improves to 20 points per game.
Daniel Jones won-loss record has gone from 3-9 to 4-9 in his two years. Point scored dropped from 21 per game to 17. He had 1 fourth qtr comeback and 2 game winning drives in 2019, and NONE so far in 2020.
So do you really want to conclude Josh Allen didn't specifically make the Bills team much better in his second year, and that his second year wasn't a success?
And can you even remotely suggest the same about Jones' second year?
I agree with this statement. He needs to make strides next season or we need to make another move. I do think the coaching changes have really hampered him this season. Sophomore slumps are also not uncommon in the NFL.
In terms of the comparison with Allen, I think there are a lot of factors that make it almost impossible to do. Allen has had coaching stability, and a much better D to rely on early in his career. I feel like the Giants would be well served to follow the Bills blueprint of getting a few playmakers this offseason but I don’t expect the Giants to be as good as the Bills are this year next season. We are probably two years away from that potential.
If you believe Jones will make a massive improvement next year that’s fine. It may absolutely happen. But Josh Allen is not a precedent to point to which informs us about that likelihood.
If you believe Jones will make a massive improvement next year that’s fine. It may absolutely happen. But Josh Allen is not a precedent to point to which informs us about that likelihood.
I know. I foolishly entered into the fray..My bad
i agree!
Allen's third year would have been considerably different without Stefon Diggs. Let's see what weapons the Giants give Jones for year 3.
Or you could simply look at the progress each made from year one to year two. Allen went from 10 passing TDs to 20, while bringing INTs down from 12 to 9. Jones went from 24/12 to 9/9.
So the takeaway is if you want to look at stats, Allen improved significantly from year 1 to year 2, while Jones regressed.
The trajectories they are both on could not be more dissimilar.
Very well said - the last sentence in particular underscores the overall point.
I agree with this post. To be honest, I don't even think he's a game manager though.
Isn't it your duty as a game manager to not fuck up the game, limit throws but make them when you have to, have a good run game (yeah, Jones has legs) and keep the ball safe, from turnovers?
He does anything but keep the ball safe and doesn't do the best job in the world avoiding game costly turnovers.
I do like using him as a runner. There are a couple problems though:
1. He doesn't seem to read the option particularly well. There have been several times he should have pulled out down and kept it that he didn't, and the running back got buried.
2. He's an effective runner in accepted plays that get him going downhill quickly. He isn't creating pass opportunities much with his legs, or making plays off schedule.
If Jones is going to be the quarterback the offense had to be designed to get him out of the pocket, reading half the field, and moving towards the LOS. He can't, repeat can't, be kept in the pocket with any regularity.
He can't play from the pocket.
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While I don’t think for a minute that he’s anything more than a game manager, I understand giving him ‘21. Now after what will be a third year next season, is it unreasonable to expect 25-30 tds? Or do we keep waiting for the 6th pick to develop?
I agree with this post. To be honest, I don't even think he's a game manager though.
Isn't it your duty as a game manager to not fuck up the game, limit throws but make them when you have to, have a good run game (yeah, Jones has legs) and keep the ball safe, from turnovers?
He does anything but keep the ball safe and doesn't do the best job in the world avoiding game costly turnovers.
Lately he’s been better in the turnover department, to be fair. The knock I have against him is he doesn’t make enough plays. Get him a better cast next year and see how he does. If he stays healthy for 14 or more games, throws for maybe 3500 yards and tosses 25-30 tds like I said above, then you have a case for moving forward with him. Just as long as we see some clutch play late in close games that at the very least put the team in position to tie/win games. Don’t make those numbers hollow by padding in garbage time. Anything less than that, and you need to go in a different direction in 2022. Gun to my head, in all honesty, I think Judge and Company go QB shopping in the spring of 2022. I don’t think Jones is good enough to meet my proposed parameters.
But I think there are 2 main differences.
The 1st difference is that Jones' sophomore season is a clear step down from his rookie season. Whereas Josh Allen clearly improved in his 2nd year. This is a major difference between their perceived trajectories which is why Bills' fans were more optimistic than we are in our QB after Year 2.
The 2nd difference is that Josh Allen possessed obvious physical traits that indicated a high ceiling. His size stood out on TV from day 1, he was a big boy with a rocket arm who could move really well. I dislike Big Ben as a person but I enjoyed his playstyle when he was younger, Allen didn't brush off defenders in the same way but his size and mobility definitely made you think about that comparison a bit. The upside was obvious with Allen.
The upside is a little less obvious for Jones. Although I'm down on Jones to the point that I wouldn't mind another QB next year, I'm probably higher on his upside that most of his other doubters. The "Danny Dimes" nickname might've been forced, but he really did throw a decent amount of really impressive passes as a rookie that made you overlook the other flaws. But in terms of overall raw talent and untapped potential, he doesn't stand out like Allen did. And his mental shortcomings (pre-snap issues, eyes locking onto his primary targets, terrible pocket awareness) really hurts him in my eyes since his physical traits aren't standout.
I hope he turns into an MVP candidate like Josh Allen, but I don't think it's a fair comparison at this point based on what both QBs showed through 2 years.
exactly, dude has franchise qb written all over him....i was banging the table to draft him back in 18....but noooo we took a fucking running back
That wasn't the case against Tampa. Slayton was open deep the whole game.
Barkley had one injury in college, a high ankle sprain that I think he missed two games for. He was not injury prone when he was drafted. And Allen was rated by most “experts” behind Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen.
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being a game manager and only being able to throw the ball 10 yards to anyone because nobody is open downfield, and you don't have all day to throw.
That wasn't the case against Tampa. Slayton was open deep the whole game.
He's a 1 read qb, doesnt know how to read the field and extend the play....pretty much a broke mans Eli Manning
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we could of had Josh allen the qb and Josh Alllen the pass rusher....instead we got a beat down rb and a qb no where near the level of Bills Josh Allen
Barkley had one injury in college, a high ankle sprain that I think he missed two games for. He was not injury prone when he was drafted. And Allen was rated by most “experts” behind Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen.
Well I wish I can shoiw you my posts, I came from an older giants forum that got deleted where me and another guy was arguing which is better Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson...saquan was no where near the conversation. Should I bring up Sy's evaluation of Josh allen? a real scouts opinion would be interesting