Jason was in the FAN today on the midday Saturday show talking all rumblings around the NFL. He discussed Garrett and Gettleman in depth, as of now no decision on Gettleman’s been made and is still very much up in the air.
Mid season he said Garrett was already as good as gone from what he’s heard and doesn’t believe anything has changed. He would be shocked if Garrett is the OC next year in addition to some more offensive changes. He hasn’t heard any names mentioned for OC as things are still fluid with the Head Coaching changes
That's interesting. I think something has to give re: Gettleman, Jones, and Garrett. Somebody is at fault for the results on offense this year. Keeping all three in place and chalking it up to "tough luck" would be a mistake imo.
Gase is a trash coordinator too. The guy sucks. Maybe he can coach a high school.
Makes some sense if you give Jones the excuse of injury and lack of weapons how do you not give same leeway to coordinator?
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Best move for him and us is to move on.
Was this a Mara hire? I almost wonder if he was like their fallback HC if Judge failed. Doesn’t seem like a guy Judge brought in on his own.
Garrett was on Nick Saban’s staff with Miami Dolphins. My opinion is that Judge wanted Freddie Kitchens as his OC, but I don’t think that Garrett was not at least on the short list.
our line is young and inexperienced and our best player has been sidelined all year
this offense needs a major talent infusion at more than one position and a QB that needs to improve quickly
LOL! That pretty much nails it.
The media insiders would do a lot better just paying attention to some posters on BBI and reporting that.
Who cares what the front office wants? I wouldn’t trust those guys to fill a glass with water without fucking it up. What does the head coach want? His opinion is the only one that matters to me. Literally the only reason to bring Garrett back is that the lack of continuity for Jones would be more harmful than the possible upgrade with a new coordinator. Anyone with eyes could see the massive regression the QB had. It can’t all be “Saquon was missing.”
I hope Joe wants to move on.
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my sources say the Giants FO loves Garrett -- I don't think he's going anywhere just yet
Who cares what the front office wants? I wouldn’t trust those guys to fill a glass with water without fucking it up. What does the head coach want? His opinion is the only one that matters to me. Literally the only reason to bring Garrett back is that the lack of continuity for Jones would be more harmful than the possible upgrade with a new coordinator. Anyone with eyes could see the massive regression the QB had. It can’t all be “Saquon was missing.”
I hope Joe wants to move on.
Agreed
There might be press speculation that after Colombo, Garrett's days were likely numbered. But I seriously doubt that anyone other than Judge would know whether he intended to keep Garrett and he would not be letting that out.
I agree that The Maras were the main drivers in bringing Garret in.
Which is why I never bought into the “judge is running the show” narrative
The question is Gettleman.
The question is Gettleman.
Agreed.
The result of today’s game - and the WFT game - can’t possibly alter the decision on either. I hope that is just LaCanfora nonsense and not actually what the front office is thinking.
Not that the 3 years have been good nor is a 6 win season, but they can say the team persevered thru a very tough season and accomplished something they have not in a decade.
Losing 4 in a row to end season and finishing potentially last in probably the worst division in NFL history would be the end of his time here. Retirement to save face.
He was a backup QB here. He's been coaching a division rival for the past 13 years and started out in Miami, but somehow - he's "family".
The offensive line can't pass block
The running backs are ordinary
But, yeah. The problem is Garrett.
Not unless an outsider is brought in, will I think Judge has any special pull in the org, above typical HC power.
Imagine Dallas is up 4 with the Giants driving in the last minute. Jones throws into the end zone with 10 seconds left. Does the view on the performance of either Garrett or Gettleman really come down to whether or not that pass is completed, or if a flag is thrown?
And imagine further if the Giants stomp the Cowboys today, but WFT beats Philly. There jobs were safe at 5pm, but the are the let go because of a game between two other teams?
I really hope these decisions have already been made. All of us should hope that they have.
But while the organization is not in a bad place, it certainly isn't in a good one.
Mara will base his decision on whether he feels better about the team when the season ends. If they win the NFCE and get a playoff game that will probably be enough for someone looking for anything positive.
But if they lose a 4th in a row to end season, to a divisional rival, and don't particularly look good doing so...then how can anyone feel better about the team on Jan 3rd?
Mara will base his decision on whether he feels better about the team when the season ends. If they win the NFCE and get a playoff game that will probably be enough for someone looking for anything positive.
This may very well be the way he thinking. I am really hoping it isn’t. This is how bad teams stay bad.
You can’t run an organization based on the last data point you were given.
For all our sakes whichever sides of all the BBI arguments we all fall on let's hope whatever the Giants decide after today this horrible stretch of losing ends soon.
When people ask what were the 70's like, these four years through the lens of last week's game was what the 70's were like.
The Giants were completely outclassed in every way and had no chance to win and were uncompetitive from the opening snap.
Whatever needs to happen for this losing nightmare to end I'm in favor of. I just hope the owners start making better choices. Maybe that means bringing everyone back. Judge seems like he was a very good choice. I sure don't know the answers but can you imagine what things will be like if next year is another 5/6 win or less season.
Not unless an outsider is brought in, will I think Judge has any special pull in the org, above typical HC power.
Why do you think that? DG spoke at length his first year about changing how the organization works. Look at most of the players he has brought in from the start. Most of them had ties to the coaching staff at the time. DG spoke early that he learned from how carolina did things and was making changes. He brought in players that Shummer wanted and now he's bringing in players judge likes.
Mara spoke of these changes as a reason for keeping DG last season. We all know mara doesn't like change. Maybe he hired a trusted person to make the changes necessary.
But while the organization is not in a bad place, it certainly isn't in a good one.
Mara will base his decision on whether he feels better about the team when the season ends. If they win the NFCE and get a playoff game that will probably be enough for someone looking for anything positive.
But if they lose a 4th in a row to end season, to a divisional rival, and don't particularly look good doing so...then how can anyone feel better about the team on Jan 3rd?
I'm at the point now where I'll be surprised if Gettleman isn't back next year. Dan Duggan aside, there have been a few columns this week that have sought not to absolve DG of blame, but to lower the bar for what would be considered a "successful" 2020 season in a manner that suggests they already know what's going to happen.
Columns don't appear out of nowhere, knowing how the Giants operate I can't shake the feeling that they're going to give Gettleman a passing grade for this year and give that more weight than his entire body of work as GM in making the decision.
If I thought today would factor into the decision on Gettleman, for the long term future of the team I'd root for the Cowboys to win 35-3.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think the decision is already made to retain Gettleman.
Not every move has been good, but the overall direction for the team is good in my opinion. GMs are playing the long game so you can’t just look at his record in the first 3 years.
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Mara will base his decision on whether he feels better about the team when the season ends. If they win the NFCE and get a playoff game that will probably be enough for someone looking for anything positive.
This may very well be the way he thinking. I am really hoping it isn’t. This is how bad teams stay bad.
You can’t run an organization based on the last data point you were given.
They all, not just DG, make too many bad decisions when it comes to player personnel. A weak roster of players don't keep showing up on the field, year-after-year, because of one guy.
But somehow those bad decisions start with someone's thought, then it gains momentum with others and becomes a vision and then they all ultimately agree on flawed approach with a player or roster approach.
The New York Giants need someone to break up their flawed cycle of decision-making.
Despite the team performing better overall, the offense is literally the 2nd worst in the league. Jones has regressed in year two, and Colombo, Garrett's guy, went off the deep end.
I may be reading into this comment too much, but does that mean he’s wrong about Jason Garrett?
The offensive line can't pass block
The running backs are ordinary
But, yeah. The problem is Garrett.
At least 75% of that was also true in 2019 and Jones still managed 26 touchdown in 12 games. This season, Jones has just 10 in 13 games. Last year, he had five 300 yard passing games. This year, he has none. He had 4 games with a 100+ passer rating. This year, he has 1. Like I said before, it can’t all be because Saquon is gone.
Please do not introduce another OC and system to Jones.
Please do not introduce another OC and system to Jones.
Really bad thinking. Look at the schemes he is running and evaluate on that. His schemes suck. He plays a high risk lots reward system.
I knew it game one when he was running SB behind a 3 tightend formation. Then he motioned the wr in closer creating a 9 vs 11 situation. Brilliant!
Not every move has been good, but the overall direction for the team is good in my opinion. GMs are playing the long game so you can’t just look at his record in the first 3 years.
Thank you, this X100
People forget the mess he inherited 3 years ago. Since then he has gotten the team out of cap hell, made a huge beneficial trade with OBJ, brought in a franchise looking QB Rb and quite possibly LT and added some great foundation FA's.
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The TE can't hang onto the ball.
The offensive line can't pass block
The running backs are ordinary
But, yeah. The problem is Garrett.
At least 75% of that was also true in 2019 and Jones still managed 26 touchdown in 12 games. This season, Jones has just 10 in 13 games. Last year, he had five 300 yard passing games. This year, he has none. He had 4 games with a 100+ passer rating. This year, he has 1. Like I said before, it can’t all be because Saquon is gone.
Barkley missed 3 games last year, that is enough to make a difference. He had Tate the final 12 games. And while the OLine did suck, it wasn't 3 rookies and a 1st time center.
But no I don't like the offense, either.
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who has a sophmore QB an inconsistent but improving offensive line, a WR core with no separation, a underachieving TE who drops passes, that's missing its star RB (best offensive player). Tell me how well that OC will look.
Please do not introduce another OC and system to Jones.
Really bad thinking. Look at the schemes he is running and evaluate on that. His schemes suck. He plays a high risk lots reward system.
I knew it game one when he was running SB behind a 3 tightend formation. Then he motioned the wr in closer creating a 9 vs 11 situation. Brilliant!
so that's 1 play, and honesty I like that formation b/c it can create mis-direction and if the TE's set their blocks correctly SB can be off to the races.
So not exactly sure what your sticking point is but Garrett has proven track history enough for me to believe he knows exactly what he's doing.
There isn't one BBI fan on here who should think they know better then him when it comes to schemes and playcalling
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The TE can't hang onto the ball.
The offensive line can't pass block
The running backs are ordinary
But, yeah. The problem is Garrett.
At least 75% of that was also true in 2019 and Jones still managed 26 touchdown in 12 games. This season, Jones has just 10 in 13 games. Last year, he had five 300 yard passing games. This year, he has none. He had 4 games with a 100+ passer rating. This year, he has 1. Like I said before, it can’t all be because Saquon is gone.
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My thoughts are that If DG or Abrams are the GM next year, the traditional Giants power structure is in place.
Not unless an outsider is brought in, will I think Judge has any special pull in the org, above typical HC power.
Why do you think that? DG spoke at length his first year about changing how the organization works. Look at most of the players he has brought in from the start. Most of them had ties to the coaching staff at the time. DG spoke early that he learned from how carolina did things and was making changes. He brought in players that Shummer wanted and now he's bringing in players judge likes.
Mara spoke of these changes as a reason for keeping DG last season. We all know mara doesn't like change. Maybe he hired a trusted person to make the changes necessary.
I think we are saying the same thing, Mara doesn’t like change and wants to do things the Giants way.
The changes gettleman talked about were mostly procedural, and not structural, and I don’t seeing that structure changing.
The GM job is about process as much as it is results. Gettleman's process has been shambolic from the day he got the job... beating Dallas today isn't going to change that.
The GM job is about process as much as it is results. Gettleman's process has been shambolic from the day he got the job... beating Dallas today isn't going to change that.
Not to be pedantic, but I think DGs failing earlier on have been mostly strategic rather than process based. The process may have issues too (the Baker pick for example) but it’s hard to say when the strategy was so flawed. IMV the strategy has improved. Weather it’s improved enough to keep his job is up for debate.
This was to help a young rookie HC with a lite resume and also serve as backup plans. In other words we did not go for absolute best available at their position as our highest criteria.
So looking at it that way Garrett was hired to be a good, credible OC and more importantly give HC help to our rookie if needed.
I think this was really smart.
So... now that we know Judge has it covered, while it certainly doesn't hurt to keep surrounding him with experienced coaches, the FO and Judge can now can think about getting the best available for each role. So flip my 'a' and 'b' basically.
Or maybe now it goes a) philosophy and skill that aligns with Joe's vision of excellent teachers in his preferred schemes and techniques b) general excellence in their position, resume and c) strong high level coaching experience (hc, coordinator).
In that view, Garrett is certainly upgradable, depending on who is available.