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Pass Rush Future: Are We Satisfied?

Angel Eyes : 1/9/2021 3:40 pm
I honestly think that the Giants have reached the extent one can scheme a pass rush without a strong presence at edge rusher. Leonard Williams is good as an interior rusher, but he’s only one guy, and if he’s neutralized, the defense can’t get after the quarterback. The defense can’t get pressure on the quarterback, the WRs have more time to get open from the DBs, positive play for the opposing team. I’ll admit to feeling embarrassed watching the Giants’ three-game skid in December, Graham having the DL play contain, and the quarterback having all day to throw.

Right now, the Giants have Lorenzo Carter (coming off Achilles injury and didn’t impress me before then), Oshane Ximines (coming off shoulder surgery, same story), Kyler Fackrell, Jabaal Sheard, Niko Lalos, Cam Brown, and Carter Coughlin, who combined for less than ten sacks (including 1.5 by Markus Golden who is no longer with the team). Are we satisfied with the guys we have now, or should the Giants pursue a better edge rusher in FA or the draft?
Getting an Edge rusher vs getting a good edge rusher  
George from PA : 1/9/2021 3:43 pm : link
Unfortunately, they do not grow on trees...finding one in draft is cery risky.

Easier to find a great corner....which could offer same results
They should absolutely target an edge rusher  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2021 3:43 pm : link
It is the biggest need on defense.
As fans  
MtDizzle : 1/9/2021 3:53 pm : link
we shouldn’t even be close to being satisfied. We all know how special the giants were when they had waves of pass rushers coming at you from every direction. Now we just settle on average at best LBs like Carter or “X-Man” who simply can’t get the job done on a consistent basis. Grandpa Dave will probably bring in another run stuffing DT before we ever get another premier pass rusher.
I don’t know, the Belichick (Judge?) way  
Big Blue '56 : 1/9/2021 4:00 pm : link
has almost always been about a strong middle(DL) and solid secondary..

While I certainly wouldn’t mind a premium Edge Rusher via the draft, I wouldn’t go nuts if we didn’t
If we get one of the 3 elite WRs  
edavisiii : 1/9/2021 4:43 pm : link
there will probably be some good round 2 pass rushers. Penn State has two pass rushers that won't be 1st rounders and Miami has 3 edge rushers that are top 50 (probably) If the 3 WRs are gone in round 1 then there will probably be a blue chip pass rusher available. Maybe Kwity Paye or Rousseau from Miami. I think we could fill two big needs in the 1st two rounds if we get lucky. OL, CB and TE should be considered...it depends who falls. Remember, neither Osi, Tuck or Strahan were 1st round picks. We might not get a complete prospect like Chase Young but we can still get quality help.
I think it is  
darren in pdx : 1/9/2021 4:59 pm : link
imperative to the defense to get a couple more guys that can consistently get to the quarterback to disrupt timing. Reports were that they were high on Carter early on, it's a shame he got hurt so we still don't know if he turned the corner with this coaching staff but will have another chance next year.

WR, pass rush and bolstering the OL and secondary would be my biggest needs this offseason. Bonus if they can get a reliable TE to replace Engram, I'd rather have someone that can catch an NFL pass consistently.
If Patrick Surtain  
PaulN : 1/9/2021 6:06 pm : link
Is there for us to pick there is no way we should pass on him. Get a good free agent pass reciever and another wideout in round 2 or 3 and we should be fine with Saquon coming back. We can add a pass rusher in round 2 or 3, can't reach no matter what. You take the best player unless its razor close, then you prioritize position. Playmakers can come in all forms and all positions.
Kudos to coaches and the players for creating decent pressure  
LBH15 : 1/9/2021 6:26 pm : link
without a better Edge Rusher on roster.

But Giants would have a better Defense if they could rush 4 and get quicker pressure from the edge. Today they can’t.

They absolutely need that Edge Pressure....  
Simms11 : 1/9/2021 7:07 pm : link
A Guy that offenses have to be aware of on every snap. Saying that is one thing, but finding one is another. There’s nobody great in this draft and so, unless the Giants are going to risk it with Rousseau in the first, they will most likely have to settle for a 2nd or 3rd rounder that has some warts, but potential. I can certainly see Parsons or Surtain being the pick before Rousseau in the first. So either we make a trade or pick up one in Free Agency, which would cost us a pretty penny. I think we might be bringing a guy like Fackrell back and relying on Carter and Ximines next year unfortunately.
I wouldn’t mind  
MtDizzle : 1/9/2021 9:44 pm : link
Leonard Floyd brought in here at all.
We do have needs: WR, Edge are the Top 2 for sure  
SGMen : 1/10/2021 6:22 am : link
A #1 dynamic WR and a top edge would make this team an instant playoff contender. However, as noted, these types do not grow on trees.

Here is what must happen:

1. Purge the players that don't fit regardless of "cap implications" since the cap ain't going up. Just eat the damage this year. As for Solder, much depends upon when they speak to him and see his desire and know he is healthy enough to play swing. It makes no sense to cut him to save money NOW when you need a swing tackle. We save big cutting him in 2022 season end.

2. Sign that key UFA. And that may be a WR.
3. Draft Well.
4. Resign L. Williams and D. Tomlinson as you should always keep your own UNLESS they are offered ridiculous outside money that we should NOT MATCH. You could actually get a #3 for both of these guys.
PaulN I just cant  
mittenedman : 1/10/2021 8:11 am : link
imagine a squeaky clean CB of Surtain’s quality going outside the top 5. When the dust settles he’s the best CB prospect in a while - better than Okudah who everyone was mysteriously floored by.

I really think Gregory Rousseau is the guy at 11 if hes there. A Chandler Jones-type ER. hes got some of the same flags JPP had coming put which may push him perfectly to our range. JMO.
I dont believe we  
kes722 : 1/11/2021 12:57 am : link
Absolutely have to get an edge rusher for this type of defense to work, be affective, and be a top 10 D.

I do believe that we Absolutely need more weapons on offense to make it work.

Seeing that D was a strength and the O was a major problem almost all year. I would say the best course of action would be to invest heavily in O weapons and supplement the D with vet minimal types like we did with Fackrell.

That also seemed to be the Belichick way of doing thing. He would figure out what was there biggest weakness. Invest in said weakness then supplement the minor weaknesses with Vets and cast offs.

We kinda did it with Pettis. He had a good game last week. Now let's see if the change will be good for both of them.

Unsatisfied  
JonC : 1/11/2021 8:47 am : link
but I will point out again it appears they're building this defense from the inside out and up the middle, taking the emphasis off Edge talent which is harder and more expensive to find.

Patriots, Rams, and Titans have all built to this spec and fared well enough. The key to the 3-4 base is it's easier to find bodies to fit and be multiple, whereas 4-3 base needs better athletes, more speed, and then you really need the Edge talent to be the motor. You have to be proficient in creating a pipeline for the DL and backend, in order to control the contract costs.

Not seeing a ton of answers at #11 in the draft either, unless they love Rousseau. UFA options have not been worth the coin in recent years either.
Build on the strengths we have up the middle  
Sneakers O'toole : 1/11/2021 9:02 am : link
Giants should be focusing on reupping Williams and Tomlinson, and going from there. Continue the rebuild primarily through sound drafting.

Sound drafting means at it's core not forcing picks, whether that be at edge rusher, WR, or what have you. Get impact players. This is a roster that quite frankly can still use upgrading in most all areas.
RE: Unsatisfied  
Angel Eyes : 1/11/2021 11:43 am : link
In comment 15118269 JonC said:
Quote:
but I will point out again it appears they're building this defense from the inside out and up the middle, taking the emphasis off Edge talent which is harder and more expensive to find.

Patriots, Rams, and Titans have all built to this spec and fared well enough. The key to the 3-4 base is it's easier to find bodies to fit and be multiple, whereas 4-3 base needs better athletes, more speed, and then you really need the Edge talent to be the motor. You have to be proficient in creating a pipeline for the DL and backend, in order to control the contract costs.

Not seeing a ton of answers at #11 in the draft either, unless they love Rousseau. UFA options have not been worth the coin in recent years either.

You can't rush the passer with just three guys, especially if they're slow and can't keep pace. Playing contain doesn't work because the quarterback has enough time to throw. It's why the Giants had George Martin as a nickel rusher on the DL and Lawrence Taylor as a rushbacker.
It's not about the three guys upfront  
JonC : 1/11/2021 11:44 am : link
it's about pressure packages designed to send extra bodies and create confusion, mismatches, etc.
I think they need to add a speed rusher outside,  
Section331 : 1/11/2021 12:01 pm : link
but getting a 2nd CB in this draft would help a lot. There is more than one way to skin a cat. We were 8th in pressure rate, and 4th in QB knockdowns, so the pass rush wasn't all that bad. Solidifying that 2nd CB spot would give pass rushers more time to get to the QB.

Not to say that we don't need an ER, but it may not be the priority many think it is.
we shouldn't be satisfied with any parts of this team  
djm : 1/11/2021 12:19 pm : link
we aren't great at anything. The D is the closest to becoming great, but it needs a difference maker up front and a solid corner.

To me, it's all about difference makers. We have ditch diggers. We have role players. We even have a nice crop of good starting players. But really, other than Williams/Lawrence and Bradbury we are short on star power.

I was going to start a thread going over the list of potential stars that could be had in the trade market. The Giants need to make a list and call those teams. If a stud is disgruntled and can be had, Giants need to make the call.
We can talk about need this, need that  
mittenedman : 1/12/2021 6:01 pm : link
Value this, value that. And I agree they've built inside/out.

A stud Edge Rusher would improve this team a lot. That's the bottom line. It helps close games.
RE: We can talk about need this, need that  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 6:23 pm : link
In comment 15120549 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Value this, value that. And I agree they've built inside/out.

A stud Edge Rusher would improve this team a lot. That's the bottom line. It helps close games.


yep
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