this coming Saturday. I am very excited. Turns out that I am “essential” since I work w kids. Has anyone been vaccinated yet who can speak to the side effects?
About how they were able to make the vaccine so quickly. In short, most vaccines could be make more quickly, but there isn't an incentive to do so, which obviously doesn't apply here. Everyone has the right to decide if they want to get vaccinated, but spreading falsehoods about "big pharma" is not constructive. How They Made a Vaccine So Fast - ( New Window )
Everyone is going to tell you after the miracle happens
how it happened, no one was saying before it how it was going to happen. You cannot rewrite history, almost no one thought having a vaccine this fast was possible. If that has you saying "how quickly can I get it" - then great, you're an early adopter. But (IMO) if you are reluctant, then wait until it's been given to enough people to make you comfortable. I'm not anti-vaxx, but given the circumstances here with COVID I feel like there should be tolerance for those not comfortable.
And anyway, I was mostly referring to the hesitance to take the vaccine due to the speed it was brought to market, not whatever falsehoods may have been sent and I'm pretty sure no one was influenced by the falsehoods.
RE: To those who question the long term effects of the vaccine....
nephew a doctor just took second Pfizer shot a few days ago
first shot cause arm pain cleared up in a day
second shot he felt like he was getting the flu
feeling very ill he went to bed very early that day
slept a very long night and woke up feeling better
he said every medical person he works with felt the same way after taking second shot .
RE: RE: To those who question the long term effects of the vaccine....
Please tell me the long term effects of the virus....
There were some generic studies indicating some susceptibility to ADE but Not specific to the discussed vaccines.
There was some suggestion about ADE with the original SARS, due to everyone having antibodies to one or more of the other 4 common seasonal coronaviruses, but I am not sure those studies have held up. Based on that, there was an early fear that ADE might be something to worry about with about CoV-2, but that has proven to be unfounded. There is actually little to no reactivity of antibodies with the seasonal coronaviruses and COV-2 (and vice versa). WRT vaccine, ADE should likewise not be an issue but it is worth watching the response of people who already have had COVID to the vaccine(I'm betting it's a boosted response rather than a pathological one).
One the rapidity of the vaccine relative to others, consider that most vaccines are not money makers and usually it's a company or two with a couple of scientists on the project toiling away in a vacuum for several years. With COVID, it's pretty much every scientist on the planet working in concert night and day and examining multiple per-established platforms.
And, whatever the vaccine, there absolutely were animal studies, including NHP studies.
And, the people reviewing the data prior to approval were largely academicians who were not on any company's payroll.
And, we've got data on nearly 100K people on all the vaccines. Both safety and efficacy.
I get the flu shot every year and all vaccinations and never had a side affect at all. This one made my arm really sore for a few days but nothing too bad, now I'm fine. I think it may have been the way it was shot into the muscle, and not really the vaccine itself.
I have a question. Does this vaccine address the two additional or any future strains of COVID?
So far, the vaccines are believed to be protective against the new strains. There is some suggestion that at least one of the new strains (South Africa) *might* escape from one of the monoclonal antibody therapeutics.
I have a question. Does this vaccine address the two additional or any future strains of COVID?
So far, it looks like the vaccines will work against the mutated strains. I believe it's because the vaccine targets the spike protein the virus uses to invade human cells, and these new strains have little or no mutation to that protein. Pfizer Covid vaccine ‘works against two new mutant strains’ - ( New Window )
both shots. I am not looking forward to going through that again with this one. I'll have to plan on being in bed the whole next day after this vaccine. Hope for a better experience.
Hey US1, I work in a rehab hospital. The majority of us have gotten the first Covid vaccine shot already. Everyone that also had the Shingrix shot said that it was much worse than the Covid vaccine. I haven't gotten the shingles shot myself, but seems to be a rough one. But compared to the pain that comes with shingles it was probably worth it
I have a question. Does this vaccine address the two additional or any future strains of COVID?
So far, it looks like the vaccines will work against the mutated strains. I believe it's because the vaccine targets the spike protein the virus uses to invade human cells, and these new strains have little or no mutation to that protein. Pfizer Covid vaccine ‘works against two new mutant strains’ - ( New Window )
Well, it actually has several mutations in the spike, including a deletion. IIRC only one mutation in the part of the spike which interacts with the host cell and so, it looks like there are still enough antibodies that bind to other sites in that portion of the molecular to still neutralize the virus.
both shots. I am not looking forward to going through that again with this one. I'll have to plan on being in bed the whole next day after this vaccine. Hope for a better experience.
Hey US1, I work in a rehab hospital. The majority of us have gotten the first Covid vaccine shot already. Everyone that also had the Shingrix shot said that it was much worse than the Covid vaccine. I haven't gotten the shingles shot myself, but seems to be a rough one. But compared to the pain that comes with shingles it was probably worth it
From my understanding, the problem with the Shingrix vaccine is the additional stuff in the shot, called and adjuvant. The adjuvant is designed to amp up the immune response to the vaccine and the inflammation can be painful. That adjuvant is not (to my knowledge) present in the COVID vaccines so those should not be as bad.
I have a question. Does this vaccine address the two additional or any future strains of COVID?
So far, it looks like the vaccines will work against the mutated strains. I believe it's because the vaccine targets the spike protein the virus uses to invade human cells, and these new strains have little or no mutation to that protein. Pfizer Covid vaccine ‘works against two new mutant strains’ - ( New Window )
Well, it actually has several mutations in the spike, including a deletion. IIRC only one mutation in the part of the spike which interacts with the host cell and so, it looks like there are still enough antibodies that bind to other sites in that portion of the molecular to still neutralize the virus.
I was in the very first wave to get it because I'm an anesthesiologist, and I've intubated lots of COVID patients. It feels so much better to know I'm protected!
I am long time giants fan and frequent lurker who has never posted before, but feel motivated to give my 2cents on this issue
I am a front line COVID-19 provider. I am a hospital based physician and work in a southern San Diego (actually Chula Vista for those familiar with area) hospital directly caring for hospitalized COVID-19 patients. I cared for our hospital's first covid patient back in March 2020 and have cared for 100's of COVID-19 patients since that time. At present, we are completely overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients. It is much much worse than our first wave. We are continuously transitioning more and more regular floors to covid units and presently about 2/3 -3/4 of our total patient census is COVID. Our ICU is at capacity and at present, we have numerous patients on regular covid floors whose clinical condition easily warrant ICU management/intubation. We have to carefully decide who gets ventilators, high flow units, and bipaps due to shortages/ none available. Yesterday, I cared for a man who is on 100% 02 on bipap with po2 level of 44 (in simple terms -life threatening hypoxemia) who remains on floor, due to lack of ICU beds and ventilators. My point is that the situation here is beyond critical.
Do I have worries about the long term effects of vaccine? Sure, but not near the worry I have about the long term effects of covid on our health (both physical and emotional), economy, and our way of life. I am not willing to continue living like this for next several years waiting for definitive evidence that there are no dangerous long term vaccine risks. Others may be willing to wait but I don't think they are willing to continue to live like this. Frankly, I believe they are counting on herd immunity (from others taking the vaccine) to protect themselves. To me, this is very a cynical and selfish attitude. If we all did this, the pandemic might never end. Risks and sacrifices need to be made to get through this. I see fellow physicians, nurses and respiratory therapists doing so every day. I feel that the vaccine is our only quick and effective way out of this disaster. People who won't take the vaccine are not helping to solve the crisis for their families, communities, the country and the world.
With all that being said, of course, I strongly believe everyone has the right to do what they want and no one should ever be forced to take the vaccine unwillingly.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it as you wish.
I just received my second vaccine dose yesterday (Pfizer). After the first dose, I had sore arm and felt lethargic the next day. Today, one day after 2nd dose, my arm is a little sore, but otherwise I feel great.
Isn't the goal of the vaccine to provide herd immunity?
Unfortunately everything I have read is there is no certainty around the vaccines released so far either a) preventing you from getting COVID and b) spreading it to others.
Here is a quote from a WSJ published today:
Quote:
Do the Covid vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus, or do they just protect you from getting sick?
Scientists don’t know yet—and the uncertainty has big implications during the rollout of the vaccines....
Also, a Lancet article from last week (linked) that talks about how logistically a global immunization event like this has never been done and there are many unknowns due to the increased testing cycle.
Even if the vaccine is 95% effective, the bulk of the healthy, non-elderly, population probably has less than a 5% chance of being infected, a lower percent chance of being hospitalized and even lower of dying.
I think that's partly why we are seeing such slow adoption rates.
In the past week I have lost both god parents (my Aunt and Uncle - married 53 years died a few days apart) to COVID, and IMO that is the population we should be aggressively vaccinating (the elderly, group/LTC home residents, front line medical staff, and people with potential co-morbities like obesity, diabetes, respiratory illnesses) but it seems like the focus is in the wrong place.
Are you seeing colleagues reject the vaccine?
Are you seeing or hearing about a lot of no-shows for the vaccine (NY is reporting a ton).
IMO that is the population we should be aggressively vaccinating (the elderly, group/LTC home residents, front line medical staff, and people with potential co-morbities like obesity, diabetes, respiratory illnesses) but it seems like the focus is in the wrong place.
PJ - I agree with that focus, but what other groups are being targeted that shouldn't be?
And yes I have read a large number of heath care workers not wanting the vaccine, for a variety of reasons, including political and scientific.
RE: RE: bcinsd thank your for your front line support
IMO that is the population we should be aggressively vaccinating (the elderly, group/LTC home residents, front line medical staff, and people with potential co-morbities like obesity, diabetes, respiratory illnesses) but it seems like the focus is in the wrong place.
PJ - I agree with that focus, but what other groups are being targeted that shouldn't be?
And yes I have read a large number of heath care workers not wanting the vaccine, for a variety of reasons, including political and scientific.
Every state is different.
In MA 75+year old people are in phase 2 as are people with 2 or more potential co-morbidities.
Same in NY, the elderly are in phase 2 or 3 after groups that IMO were less risky. I read in NY a fraction of the identified people were actually taking the vaccine AND the guidelines about who could get it were so inflexible and included massive fines for deviating from the guidelines some doses were wasted. Because of this they have adjusted the guidelines.
I am far from a vaccine logistics expert, but when I look at every COVID death and hospitalization chart I don't see how you wouldn't start with the people actually dying the most, the over 75 crowd. Just seems pretty obvious to me.
in MA (where I live) general population isn't even really eligible until Spring/Summer (April - June) so while long-term effects likely won't be known I'd be surprised if there isn't good data on efficacy and obviously short-term effects will be well documented.
My father (who lives in FL) got the Moderna vaccine initial dose and reported no side effects.
I pray the rest of country doesn't get hit as hard by second wave as we are.
Certainly herd immunity is the goal. Its about how we get there. For every person who delays taking the vaccine it takes us that much longer to get there. Some march to the battle field to destroy the enemy, others lag behind depending on the sacrifice of others to assure their safety.
Although the death rate from COVID is low, remember that if even 1% die and 80% of Americans eventually get it (a guess, but this virus is so contagious, I think that number might be low), thats still millions of Americans dead (and imagine around the world!).
The vaccine works. Plain and simple. It can save so many lives and can get us back to near normalcy quickly.
Almost every health care provider I know has eagerly awaited the vaccine. Only one doctor I know has said no and for the same Guinea pig logic that is so common.
I don't have strong opinion on rollout and qualifying criteria because I think everyone needs to get vaccinated ASAP. Just giving it to old people and skipping healthy people allow the virus spread to continue. People need to stop dying and we need to get our society back to normal.
I am hopeful the incoming administration "gets it" and within a few months we will see a huge increase in availably of vaccine. Then it'll be up to the healthy population to step up, take the vaccine, and turn the tide on the pandemic.
also living in MA, so I won't be able to get the vaccine until April probably, but you can be damn sure I will be getting it ASAP as soon as I am eligible. My wife is a healthcare provider (though not frontline), so she will probably be getting it before me. We are both ready to do our part to end this horrible pandemic and start rebuilding.
The whole country of Norway I believe only had 500 COVID deaths.
Quote:
Twenty-three people died in Norway within days of receiving their first dose of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with 13 of those deaths — all nursing home patients — apparently related to the side effects of the shots, health officials said....
and none of them had any bad reaction other than a sore arm the next day.
I didn't realize that. Since you personally know several people who didn't have an issue I guess it must be safe for everyone. I'll let the families of those 23 dead people know that US1 Giants disagrees their loved ones are dead because he knows several people who didn't have an issue.
Let me see if I can sign my father up for the vaccine now that I feel so confident and reassured.
Thank you!
RE: RE: I know serveral senior citizens who received the Pfizer vaccine
and none of them had any bad reaction other than a sore arm the next day.
I didn't realize that. Since you personally know several people who didn't have an issue I guess it must be safe for everyone. I'll let the families of those 23 dead people know that US1 Giants disagrees their loved ones are dead because he knows several people who didn't have an issue.
Let me see if I can sign my father up for the vaccine now that I feel so confident and reassured.
Thank you!
I was in a zoom conference on vaccines today and Norway was brought up. It’s not clear whether or not it was a specific vaccine issue considering the frailty of the people vaccinated. It should give you pause but not stop you in your tracks. There’s a lot of safety data and it’s all positive, so Norway requires a lot of investigation before concluding anything negative about the vaccine.
Isn't the goal of the vaccine to provide herd immunity?
Unfortunately everything I have read is there is no certainty around the vaccines released so far either a) preventing you from getting COVID and b) spreading it to others.
Yes. Probably looking at something more like the flu than polio, at least initially. Minimize number of and severity of infections.
Quote:
Even if the vaccine is 95% effective, the bulk of the healthy, non-elderly, population probably has less than a 5% chance of being infected, a lower percent chance of being hospitalized and even lower of dying.
Those odds are way off. There are areas of the country that's already have >20% of the population infected.
Quote:
In the past week I have lost both god parents (my Aunt and Uncle - married 53 years died a few days apart) to COVID, and IMO that is the population we should be aggressively vaccinating (the elderly, group/LTC home residents, front line medical staff, and people with potential co-morbities like obesity, diabetes, respiratory illnesses) but it seems like the focus is in the wrong place.
As with most things, it was left to the states. The CDC recommended that LTC and front-line workers go first. The worst part of it is none of this seems to be verified, so people are signing up and saying they meet the requirements.
Patience is required. Even after taking the vaccine, you'll still need to wear masks, wash hands, and social distance until we know more about the risk of vaccinated people being able to still spread the virus.
From NPR, January 12th:
Quote:
Can I spread the virus to others even if I'm fully vaccinated?
This is an important question, but scientists studying the shots' effectiveness don't have an answer yet. And for public health experts, that lack of knowledge means you should act like the answer is yes.
Here's why: Before approving the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, the FDA asked the vaccine manufacturers only whether their products protect people from COVID-19 symptoms. They didn't ask if the vaccines stop people who've been vaccinated from nevertheless spreading the virus to others. The emergency authorizations by the FDA that have allowed distribution of the two new vaccines cite only their ability to keep you — the person vaccinated — from becoming severely sick with COVID-19.
In the words of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, "Experts need to understand more about the protection that COVID-19 vaccines provide before deciding to change recommendations on steps everyone should take to slow the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19."
The data to answer the question of whether vaccinated people can still spread the virus are just now being collected.
both shots. I am not looking forward to going through that again with this one. I'll have to plan on being in bed the whole next day after this vaccine. Hope for a better experience.
Me too! The Shingrix was nasty. I just had my second shot this week. It knocked me on my ass and gave me the first fever I've had in 28 years. The first shot sent me to the ER. On the other hand my 80+ year old parents got the Moderna vaccine this week and had nothing but sore arms for about an hour.
It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously.
It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously. You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
both shots. I am not looking forward to going through that again with this one. I'll have to plan on being in bed the whole next day after this vaccine. Hope for a better experience.
Me too! The Shingrix was nasty. I just had my second shot this week. It knocked me on my ass and gave me the first fever I've had in 28 years. The first shot sent me to the ER. On the other hand my 80+ year old parents got the Moderna vaccine this week and had nothing but sore arms for about an hour.
I said this before, but I’ll repeat. Not all vaccines are the same so you can’t say that because one affected you a different also will. Shingrix contains an adjuvant, which is *additional* to the varicella meant to stimulate immunity. That additive, is an accessory that causes inflammation to better draw immune cells to the injection site to respond to the varicella. That’s what kicked your ass. None of the COVID vaccines contain that additive, so it shouldn’t cause that same response.
It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously. You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
In primates the vaccines cleared virus from the lungs (protects) but wasn’t great at removing it from the nasal passages\upper respiratory tract which is where transmission comes from. But, you’re still immune so I would guess that the if you do transmit to any extent, the amount and duration would be more limited. BUt more studies need to be done. They’re are investigating intranasal delivery (think Flonase) and that seems to clear the upper respiratory tract.
It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously. You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
In primates the vaccines cleared virus from the lungs (protects) but wasn’t great at removing it from the nasal passages\upper respiratory tract which is where transmission comes from. But, you’re still immune so I would guess that the if you do transmit to any extent, the amount and duration would be more limited. BUt more studies need to be done. They’re are investigating intranasal delivery (think Flonase) and that seems to clear the upper respiratory tract.
Will this be the primary deliver system or an adjunct?
I get the flu shot each fall. And while it's not 100% effective in preventing you from getting the flu, I believe it means that, if you do get it, your symptoms won't be as severe.
I've had the flu twice. I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy.
It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously. You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
In primates the vaccines cleared virus from the lungs (protects) but wasn’t great at removing it from the nasal passages\upper respiratory tract which is where transmission comes from. But, you’re still immune so I would guess that the if you do transmit to any extent, the amount and duration would be more limited. BUt more studies need to be done. They’re are investigating intranasal delivery (think Flonase) and that seems to clear the upper respiratory tract.
Will this be the primary deliver system or an adjunct?
They’re a ways away so my guess would be intramuscular will be entrenched. And, there’s still no proof that people transmit after an IM vaccination.
RE: RE: I know serveral senior citizens who received the Pfizer vaccine
and none of them had any bad reaction other than a sore arm the next day.
I didn't realize that. Since you personally know several people who didn't have an issue I guess it must be safe for everyone. I'll let the families of those 23 dead people know that US1 Giants disagrees their loved ones are dead because he knows several people who didn't have an issue.
Let me see if I can sign my father up for the vaccine now that I feel so confident and reassured.
Thank you!
This seems to me like an overly strong and obnoxious reply to someone sharing (though 2nd hand) experience with the vaccine in a thread full of people sharing experiences. I mean, you yourself just posted about your father getting his first dose without side effects (which also makes your last sentence here even more strange).
No one here is claiming or even implying that the vaccine is 100% safe for everyone.
All these experts skeptical, and some guy is apprehensive about taking it and he's getting bullied and shamed on here.
GTFO.
If someone is apprehensive and wants to pass, fine. He’s pushing falsehoods about it.
How They Made a Vaccine So Fast - ( New Window )
And anyway, I was mostly referring to the hesitance to take the vaccine due to the speed it was brought to market, not whatever falsehoods may have been sent and I'm pretty sure no one was influenced by the falsehoods.
There were some generic studies indicating some susceptibility to ADE but Not specific to the discussed vaccines.
first shot cause arm pain cleared up in a day
second shot he felt like he was getting the flu
feeling very ill he went to bed very early that day
slept a very long night and woke up feeling better
he said every medical person he works with felt the same way after taking second shot .
Quote:
Please tell me the long term effects of the virus....
There were some generic studies indicating some susceptibility to ADE but Not specific to the discussed vaccines.
There was some suggestion about ADE with the original SARS, due to everyone having antibodies to one or more of the other 4 common seasonal coronaviruses, but I am not sure those studies have held up. Based on that, there was an early fear that ADE might be something to worry about with about CoV-2, but that has proven to be unfounded. There is actually little to no reactivity of antibodies with the seasonal coronaviruses and COV-2 (and vice versa). WRT vaccine, ADE should likewise not be an issue but it is worth watching the response of people who already have had COVID to the vaccine(I'm betting it's a boosted response rather than a pathological one).
One the rapidity of the vaccine relative to others, consider that most vaccines are not money makers and usually it's a company or two with a couple of scientists on the project toiling away in a vacuum for several years. With COVID, it's pretty much every scientist on the planet working in concert night and day and examining multiple per-established platforms.
And, whatever the vaccine, there absolutely were animal studies, including NHP studies.
And, the people reviewing the data prior to approval were largely academicians who were not on any company's payroll.
And, we've got data on nearly 100K people on all the vaccines. Both safety and efficacy.
So far, the vaccines are believed to be protective against the new strains. There is some suggestion that at least one of the new strains (South Africa) *might* escape from one of the monoclonal antibody therapeutics.
So far, it looks like the vaccines will work against the mutated strains. I believe it's because the vaccine targets the spike protein the virus uses to invade human cells, and these new strains have little or no mutation to that protein.
Pfizer Covid vaccine ‘works against two new mutant strains’ - ( New Window )
Hey US1, I work in a rehab hospital. The majority of us have gotten the first Covid vaccine shot already. Everyone that also had the Shingrix shot said that it was much worse than the Covid vaccine. I haven't gotten the shingles shot myself, but seems to be a rough one. But compared to the pain that comes with shingles it was probably worth it
Quote:
I have a question. Does this vaccine address the two additional or any future strains of COVID?
So far, it looks like the vaccines will work against the mutated strains. I believe it's because the vaccine targets the spike protein the virus uses to invade human cells, and these new strains have little or no mutation to that protein. Pfizer Covid vaccine ‘works against two new mutant strains’ - ( New Window )
Well, it actually has several mutations in the spike, including a deletion. IIRC only one mutation in the part of the spike which interacts with the host cell and so, it looks like there are still enough antibodies that bind to other sites in that portion of the molecular to still neutralize the virus.
Quote:
both shots. I am not looking forward to going through that again with this one. I'll have to plan on being in bed the whole next day after this vaccine. Hope for a better experience.
Hey US1, I work in a rehab hospital. The majority of us have gotten the first Covid vaccine shot already. Everyone that also had the Shingrix shot said that it was much worse than the Covid vaccine. I haven't gotten the shingles shot myself, but seems to be a rough one. But compared to the pain that comes with shingles it was probably worth it
From my understanding, the problem with the Shingrix vaccine is the additional stuff in the shot, called and adjuvant. The adjuvant is designed to amp up the immune response to the vaccine and the inflammation can be painful. That adjuvant is not (to my knowledge) present in the COVID vaccines so those should not be as bad.
Quote:
In comment 15118348 GFiLA said:
Quote:
I have a question. Does this vaccine address the two additional or any future strains of COVID?
So far, it looks like the vaccines will work against the mutated strains. I believe it's because the vaccine targets the spike protein the virus uses to invade human cells, and these new strains have little or no mutation to that protein. Pfizer Covid vaccine ‘works against two new mutant strains’ - ( New Window )
Well, it actually has several mutations in the spike, including a deletion. IIRC only one mutation in the part of the spike which interacts with the host cell and so, it looks like there are still enough antibodies that bind to other sites in that portion of the molecular to still neutralize the virus.
Thanks for the clarification.
I am a front line COVID-19 provider. I am a hospital based physician and work in a southern San Diego (actually Chula Vista for those familiar with area) hospital directly caring for hospitalized COVID-19 patients. I cared for our hospital's first covid patient back in March 2020 and have cared for 100's of COVID-19 patients since that time. At present, we are completely overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients. It is much much worse than our first wave. We are continuously transitioning more and more regular floors to covid units and presently about 2/3 -3/4 of our total patient census is COVID. Our ICU is at capacity and at present, we have numerous patients on regular covid floors whose clinical condition easily warrant ICU management/intubation. We have to carefully decide who gets ventilators, high flow units, and bipaps due to shortages/ none available. Yesterday, I cared for a man who is on 100% 02 on bipap with po2 level of 44 (in simple terms -life threatening hypoxemia) who remains on floor, due to lack of ICU beds and ventilators. My point is that the situation here is beyond critical.
Do I have worries about the long term effects of vaccine? Sure, but not near the worry I have about the long term effects of covid on our health (both physical and emotional), economy, and our way of life. I am not willing to continue living like this for next several years waiting for definitive evidence that there are no dangerous long term vaccine risks. Others may be willing to wait but I don't think they are willing to continue to live like this. Frankly, I believe they are counting on herd immunity (from others taking the vaccine) to protect themselves. To me, this is very a cynical and selfish attitude. If we all did this, the pandemic might never end. Risks and sacrifices need to be made to get through this. I see fellow physicians, nurses and respiratory therapists doing so every day. I feel that the vaccine is our only quick and effective way out of this disaster. People who won't take the vaccine are not helping to solve the crisis for their families, communities, the country and the world.
With all that being said, of course, I strongly believe everyone has the right to do what they want and no one should ever be forced to take the vaccine unwillingly.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it as you wish.
I just received my second vaccine dose yesterday (Pfizer). After the first dose, I had sore arm and felt lethargic the next day. Today, one day after 2nd dose, my arm is a little sore, but otherwise I feel great.
Am I a bit skeptical, sure. The FDA has made mistakes in approvals of past drugs, it happens.
But in this case I am more apt to take it considering the impact of the virus.
Isn't the goal of the vaccine to provide herd immunity?
Unfortunately everything I have read is there is no certainty around the vaccines released so far either a) preventing you from getting COVID and b) spreading it to others.
Here is a quote from a WSJ published today:
Scientists don’t know yet—and the uncertainty has big implications during the rollout of the vaccines....
Also, a Lancet article from last week (linked) that talks about how logistically a global immunization event like this has never been done and there are many unknowns due to the increased testing cycle.
Even if the vaccine is 95% effective, the bulk of the healthy, non-elderly, population probably has less than a 5% chance of being infected, a lower percent chance of being hospitalized and even lower of dying.
I think that's partly why we are seeing such slow adoption rates.
In the past week I have lost both god parents (my Aunt and Uncle - married 53 years died a few days apart) to COVID, and IMO that is the population we should be aggressively vaccinating (the elderly, group/LTC home residents, front line medical staff, and people with potential co-morbities like obesity, diabetes, respiratory illnesses) but it seems like the focus is in the wrong place.
Are you seeing colleagues reject the vaccine?
Are you seeing or hearing about a lot of no-shows for the vaccine (NY is reporting a ton).
Thanks again.
Lancet Article Link - ( New Window )
PJ - I agree with that focus, but what other groups are being targeted that shouldn't be?
And yes I have read a large number of heath care workers not wanting the vaccine, for a variety of reasons, including political and scientific.
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IMO that is the population we should be aggressively vaccinating (the elderly, group/LTC home residents, front line medical staff, and people with potential co-morbities like obesity, diabetes, respiratory illnesses) but it seems like the focus is in the wrong place.
PJ - I agree with that focus, but what other groups are being targeted that shouldn't be?
And yes I have read a large number of heath care workers not wanting the vaccine, for a variety of reasons, including political and scientific.
Every state is different.
In MA 75+year old people are in phase 2 as are people with 2 or more potential co-morbidities.
Same in NY, the elderly are in phase 2 or 3 after groups that IMO were less risky. I read in NY a fraction of the identified people were actually taking the vaccine AND the guidelines about who could get it were so inflexible and included massive fines for deviating from the guidelines some doses were wasted. Because of this they have adjusted the guidelines.
I am far from a vaccine logistics expert, but when I look at every COVID death and hospitalization chart I don't see how you wouldn't start with the people actually dying the most, the over 75 crowd. Just seems pretty obvious to me.
My father (who lives in FL) got the Moderna vaccine initial dose and reported no side effects.
I haven't seen many working bullshit meters in years. Pretty fucking sad!
I pray the rest of country doesn't get hit as hard by second wave as we are.
Certainly herd immunity is the goal. Its about how we get there. For every person who delays taking the vaccine it takes us that much longer to get there. Some march to the battle field to destroy the enemy, others lag behind depending on the sacrifice of others to assure their safety.
Although the death rate from COVID is low, remember that if even 1% die and 80% of Americans eventually get it (a guess, but this virus is so contagious, I think that number might be low), thats still millions of Americans dead (and imagine around the world!).
The vaccine works. Plain and simple. It can save so many lives and can get us back to near normalcy quickly.
Almost every health care provider I know has eagerly awaited the vaccine. Only one doctor I know has said no and for the same Guinea pig logic that is so common.
I don't have strong opinion on rollout and qualifying criteria because I think everyone needs to get vaccinated ASAP. Just giving it to old people and skipping healthy people allow the virus spread to continue. People need to stop dying and we need to get our society back to normal.
I am hopeful the incoming administration "gets it" and within a few months we will see a huge increase in availably of vaccine. Then it'll be up to the healthy population to step up, take the vaccine, and turn the tide on the pandemic.
The whole country of Norway I believe only had 500 COVID deaths.
link - ( New Window )
I didn't realize that. Since you personally know several people who didn't have an issue I guess it must be safe for everyone. I'll let the families of those 23 dead people know that US1 Giants disagrees their loved ones are dead because he knows several people who didn't have an issue.
Let me see if I can sign my father up for the vaccine now that I feel so confident and reassured.
Thank you!
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and none of them had any bad reaction other than a sore arm the next day.
I didn't realize that. Since you personally know several people who didn't have an issue I guess it must be safe for everyone. I'll let the families of those 23 dead people know that US1 Giants disagrees their loved ones are dead because he knows several people who didn't have an issue.
Let me see if I can sign my father up for the vaccine now that I feel so confident and reassured.
Thank you!
I was in a zoom conference on vaccines today and Norway was brought up. It’s not clear whether or not it was a specific vaccine issue considering the frailty of the people vaccinated. It should give you pause but not stop you in your tracks. There’s a lot of safety data and it’s all positive, so Norway requires a lot of investigation before concluding anything negative about the vaccine.
Isn't the goal of the vaccine to provide herd immunity?
Unfortunately everything I have read is there is no certainty around the vaccines released so far either a) preventing you from getting COVID and b) spreading it to others.
Yes. Probably looking at something more like the flu than polio, at least initially. Minimize number of and severity of infections.
Even if the vaccine is 95% effective, the bulk of the healthy, non-elderly, population probably has less than a 5% chance of being infected, a lower percent chance of being hospitalized and even lower of dying.
Those odds are way off. There are areas of the country that's already have >20% of the population infected.
In the past week I have lost both god parents (my Aunt and Uncle - married 53 years died a few days apart) to COVID, and IMO that is the population we should be aggressively vaccinating (the elderly, group/LTC home residents, front line medical staff, and people with potential co-morbities like obesity, diabetes, respiratory illnesses) but it seems like the focus is in the wrong place.
As with most things, it was left to the states. The CDC recommended that LTC and front-line workers go first. The worst part of it is none of this seems to be verified, so people are signing up and saying they meet the requirements.
From NPR, January 12th:
This is an important question, but scientists studying the shots' effectiveness don't have an answer yet. And for public health experts, that lack of knowledge means you should act like the answer is yes.
Here's why: Before approving the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, the FDA asked the vaccine manufacturers only whether their products protect people from COVID-19 symptoms. They didn't ask if the vaccines stop people who've been vaccinated from nevertheless spreading the virus to others. The emergency authorizations by the FDA that have allowed distribution of the two new vaccines cite only their ability to keep you — the person vaccinated — from becoming severely sick with COVID-19.
In the words of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, "Experts need to understand more about the protection that COVID-19 vaccines provide before deciding to change recommendations on steps everyone should take to slow the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19."
The data to answer the question of whether vaccinated people can still spread the virus are just now being collected.
Why You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
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both shots. I am not looking forward to going through that again with this one. I'll have to plan on being in bed the whole next day after this vaccine. Hope for a better experience.
Me too! The Shingrix was nasty. I just had my second shot this week. It knocked me on my ass and gave me the first fever I've had in 28 years. The first shot sent me to the ER. On the other hand my 80+ year old parents got the Moderna vaccine this week and had nothing but sore arms for about an hour.
I said this before, but I’ll repeat. Not all vaccines are the same so you can’t say that because one affected you a different also will. Shingrix contains an adjuvant, which is *additional* to the varicella meant to stimulate immunity. That additive, is an accessory that causes inflammation to better draw immune cells to the injection site to respond to the varicella. That’s what kicked your ass. None of the COVID vaccines contain that additive, so it shouldn’t cause that same response.
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It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously. You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
In primates the vaccines cleared virus from the lungs (protects) but wasn’t great at removing it from the nasal passages\upper respiratory tract which is where transmission comes from. But, you’re still immune so I would guess that the if you do transmit to any extent, the amount and duration would be more limited. BUt more studies need to be done. They’re are investigating intranasal delivery (think Flonase) and that seems to clear the upper respiratory tract.
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In comment 15123845 US1 Giants said:
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It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously. You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
In primates the vaccines cleared virus from the lungs (protects) but wasn’t great at removing it from the nasal passages\upper respiratory tract which is where transmission comes from. But, you’re still immune so I would guess that the if you do transmit to any extent, the amount and duration would be more limited. BUt more studies need to be done. They’re are investigating intranasal delivery (think Flonase) and that seems to clear the upper respiratory tract.
Will this be the primary deliver system or an adjunct?
I've had the flu twice. I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy.
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In comment 15123849 section125 said:
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In comment 15123845 US1 Giants said:
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It advises that people still need to wear a mask, observe social distancing, and avoid crowds after receiving the vaccine. Had not heard this previously. You Should Still Wear A Mask And Avoid Crowds After Getting The COVID-19 Vaccine - ( New Window )
Not surprising. You can still get the flu even with a flu shot. So until a large part of the populace gets the vaccine you can still spread COVID as if you were asymptomatic I suppose.
In primates the vaccines cleared virus from the lungs (protects) but wasn’t great at removing it from the nasal passages\upper respiratory tract which is where transmission comes from. But, you’re still immune so I would guess that the if you do transmit to any extent, the amount and duration would be more limited. BUt more studies need to be done. They’re are investigating intranasal delivery (think Flonase) and that seems to clear the upper respiratory tract.
Will this be the primary deliver system or an adjunct?
They’re a ways away so my guess would be intramuscular will be entrenched. And, there’s still no proof that people transmit after an IM vaccination.
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and none of them had any bad reaction other than a sore arm the next day.
I didn't realize that. Since you personally know several people who didn't have an issue I guess it must be safe for everyone. I'll let the families of those 23 dead people know that US1 Giants disagrees their loved ones are dead because he knows several people who didn't have an issue.
Let me see if I can sign my father up for the vaccine now that I feel so confident and reassured.
Thank you!
This seems to me like an overly strong and obnoxious reply to someone sharing (though 2nd hand) experience with the vaccine in a thread full of people sharing experiences. I mean, you yourself just posted about your father getting his first dose without side effects (which also makes your last sentence here even more strange).
No one here is claiming or even implying that the vaccine is 100% safe for everyone.