QB’s turning the corner in year 3

Next year for sure. Hopefully it won’t be a completely new system, and hopefully they can get him a couple of NFL caliber WRs

In comment 15118000 cjac said:

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Next year for sure. Hopefully it won’t be a completely new system, and hopefully they can get him a couple of NFL caliber WRs

Disagree. If Garrett is back next season he has no shot. Please let the chargers hire him.

In comment 15118018 fireitup77 said:

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In comment 15118000 cjac said: Quote: Next year for sure. Hopefully it won’t be a completely new system, and hopefully they can get him a couple of NFL caliber WRs Disagree. If Garrett is back next season he has no shot. Please let the chargers hire him.

Why do you do say that?

And likely the giants last chance to evaluate whether he’s a legit franchise qb or whether you need to draft another qb. He has an uphill battle, but certainly not impossible.

and compare it to Jones' time in the pocket. Big difference.

If Jones is given a clean pocket most of the time, he could really shine. When he is running for his life all the time, he isn't that special. But then again, who would be? That list is very short.

In comment 15118018 fireitup77 said:

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In comment 15118000 cjac said: Quote: Next year for sure. Hopefully it won’t be a completely new system, and hopefully they can get him a couple of NFL caliber WRs Disagree. If Garrett is back next season he has no shot. Please let the chargers hire him.

You are blaming Garrett for holding DJ back? That’s a joke. If anything it’s the other way around. Garrett had some pretty good offensives in Dallas, and a lot better QB’s to work with then he has now.

In comment 15118200 Old Blue said:

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In comment 15118018 fireitup77 said: Quote: In comment 15118000 cjac said: Quote: Next year for sure. Hopefully it won’t be a completely new system, and hopefully they can get him a couple of NFL caliber WRs Disagree. If Garrett is back next season he has no shot. Please let the chargers hire him. You are blaming Garrett for holding DJ back? That’s a joke. If anything it’s the other way around. Garrett had some pretty good offensives in Dallas, and a lot better QB’s to work with then he has now.

OC get way to much credit, and way to much blame. Take Josh McDaniel in NE was was supposed to be so good, but what happened this year when the offense sucked? No Tom Brady. If you brought Eric B here from KC here to run the offense do you think he would be as good? Not unless he brought Mahoney, and all his weapons. Garrett doesn’t have much to work with in NY, and that includes DJ.

In comment 15118200 Old Blue said:

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In comment 15118018 fireitup77 said: Quote: In comment 15118000 cjac said: Quote: Next year for sure. Hopefully it won’t be a completely new system, and hopefully they can get him a couple of NFL caliber WRs Disagree. If Garrett is back next season he has no shot. Please let the chargers hire him. You are blaming Garrett for holding DJ back? That’s a joke. If anything it’s the other way around. Garrett had some pretty good offensives in Dallas, and a lot better QB’s to work with then he has now.

Garrett has had far superior talent on offense. Cowboys built great OL and then added offensive weapons at RB and WR. Dak is overrated.

Jones needs his flucking legs. He already throws a nice ball and can make all the throws. He doesn’t have to be as good as Allen appears to be at present..A healthy SB would help enormously..

I love the Giants and want Jones to succeed, but to me he hasn’t even flashed enough in two years to give me the confidence that he is going to turn some sort of corner and be a qb that leads this team to long term success

I can only imagine the eruption here of how much he sucks despite winning

Both have offenses that were correctly built around them.

Allen has a very good receiving core and serviceable offensive line while the Browns have an exceptional offensive line and running game, as well as better WRs (without OBJ) than Jones has now.

Bottom line, if we want Jones to take the next step we need to improve the situations around him.

In comment 15118252 Biteymax22 said:

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Both have offenses that were correctly built around them. Allen has a very good receiving core and serviceable offensive line while the Browns have an exceptional offensive line and running game, as well as better WRs (without OBJ) than Jones has now. Bottom line, if we want Jones to take the next step we need to improve the situations around him.

Bottom line is that the O line is a problem, the WR’s are a problem, the TE is a problem, and the QB is a problem, which ALL adds up to a losing team.

In comment 15118262 Old Blue said:

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In comment 15118252 Biteymax22 said: Quote: Both have offenses that were correctly built around them. Allen has a very good receiving core and serviceable offensive line while the Browns have an exceptional offensive line and running game, as well as better WRs (without OBJ) than Jones has now. Bottom line, if we want Jones to take the next step we need to improve the situations around him. Bottom line is that the O line is a problem, the WR’s are a problem, the TE is a problem, and the QB is a problem, which ALL adds up to a losing team.

The reason we don’t have a better O line, and better WR’s is because we took a QB at 6, and a RB at 2 when their were better options both years.

In comment 15118266 Old Blue said:

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In comment 15118262 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15118252 Biteymax22 said: Quote: Both have offenses that were correctly built around them. Allen has a very good receiving core and serviceable offensive line while the Browns have an exceptional offensive line and running game, as well as better WRs (without OBJ) than Jones has now. Bottom line, if we want Jones to take the next step we need to improve the situations around him. Bottom line is that the O line is a problem, the WR’s are a problem, the TE is a problem, and the QB is a problem, which ALL adds up to a losing team. The reason we don’t have a better O line, and better WR’s is because we took a QB at 6, and a RB at 2 when their were better options both years.

Can't go back on the past now... But this is the reason why I think you give Jones the tools to work with before you decide whether he is/isn't the guy. If you dropped him now to bring in another QB you'd still be bringing a guy into a bad situation.

Concentrate on the task at hand, keep improving the OL, get him a 1 at WR and a real 2 way TE.

In comment 15118308 Biteymax22 said:

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In comment 15118266 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15118262 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15118252 Biteymax22 said: Quote: Both have offenses that were correctly built around them. Allen has a very good receiving core and serviceable offensive line while the Browns have an exceptional offensive line and running game, as well as better WRs (without OBJ) than Jones has now. Bottom line, if we want Jones to take the next step we need to improve the situations around him. Bottom line is that the O line is a problem, the WR’s are a problem, the TE is a problem, and the QB is a problem, which ALL adds up to a losing team. The reason we don’t have a better O line, and better WR’s is because we took a QB at 6, and a RB at 2 when their were better options both years. Can't go back on the past now... But this is the reason why I think you give Jones the tools to work with before you decide whether he is/isn't the guy. If you dropped him now to bring in another QB you'd still be bringing a guy into a bad situation. Concentrate on the task at hand, keep improving the OL, get him a 1 at WR and a real 2 way TE.

I agree you can’t drop him now, and we are STUCK with him thr good, the bad, and the ugly.

and dispels any notions that his game isn't worth a lucrative second contract. The front office probably gets that done at end of next season.

are informative for Jones' development, but Darnold and Rosen are not?

If you are arguing that year 3 is some kind of magic blossoming year for all QBs, what happened with those guys?

I am curious as to why people will point to the first and third one taken when setting expectations for Jones, but skip over the second, fourth and fifth. It doesn't seem like an honest attempt to evaluate what we can expect from a 3rd year, but a way to support an already established bias (that QBs suck for two years and then suddenly become good).

Throw out Rosen (essentially not playing after rookie year) and Jackson (who won MVP in his second year so no jump in performance in year 3).

Mayfield, Allen and Darnold are the best comps of guys you could argue there were questions about after year #2.

1) Mayfield had a very good rookie year (statistically) and then dropped off in year #2 (lower TDs and higher INT, yards about the same). Year #3 statistically was very similar to year #1 (3,700/27/14 vs. 3,600/26/8). The team won more because the team was better.

2) Darnold's third year statistically was worse than his first two. His third year yards and TDs decreased while INTs dipped slightly. Year two was slightly better than year one.

3) Allen was bad his rookie year and statistically improved in year #2 (2,100/10/12 to 3,100/20/9) playing in four more games in year 2. Obviously much better in year #3.

So out of 5 QBs drafted in 2020, it looks like only one (Allen) made a dramatic improvement from any prior year in year 3. Mayfield's team record was much better, but passing based on passing stats he got back to what he did his rookie year.

I think comparisons are silly because each QB is different and each situation is different. But if you want to argue based on comparisons, you need to take all the comparable data, not just the ones that support your conclusion.

In comment 15118347 Mike from Ohio said:

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are informative for Jones' development, but Darnold and Rosen are not? If you are arguing that year 3 is some kind of magic blossoming year for all QBs, what happened with those guys?

I was taking the optimistic approach and pointing out two positive examples of third year QB’s turning the corner. A lot do not turn the corner like the two you mentioned. I’m hopeful Jones is more like Allen or Mayfield but he could suck as well.

completion percentage last year over 20 yards...something like 25%.

So he really improved in that area, no doubt experience and form - but mostly bringing in a legit WR.

the Giants don't have the ability to upgrade from Jones this offseason so they might as well upgrade the rest of the offense. That said, I think the team is not as sour on him as most fans are and no one can definitively say what he is and isn't yet. Next season will pretty much be his swing year.