Let him go out and see what his best offer is, and then the Yanks can match that.
They will almost certainly get the right to match. See if he can get what he feels like he's worth and whatever he gets offered match it, or don't.
If they let him go at reasonable term, then I'll bitch, not until then
I agree with you, but who says after 2 months he gives the Yankees a shot to match anything. I’m sure he will but it’s a weird year so I understand why everyone is taking time
it isn't like the top tier guys are flying off the board. It isn't like DJ is hanging out there intentionally by the team while things are going strong everywhere else.
Teams are still trying to understand the financials
miss George Steinbrenner? whatever you think of him he was willing to invest profits back into the on field product
Hal has given the Green light to spend. Yankees have huge contracts on their books with Cole, Stanton etc. Problem is Cashman
Maybe read up on luxury tax penalties.
So what do you want a $300M payroll because Cashman cant take a $200M payroll which has been the highest or 2nd highest in the league the last decade and win a title or even make it to the World Series with it ?
The Tampa Bay Rays on a $50M payroll just beat the Yankees and made it to WS but people really think it's the payroll that is the issue ?
Maybe take a look at the pitching staff that he assembles every year or the HR or bust lineups that happen every year in the playoffs . It's amazing the pass he gets winning 1 WS in the last 20 years and not making it back to the WS in the last 11 years
He should show some loalty. Yanks gave him a shot and helped him double his value in 2 years. Cash has identified guys the Yankees can make better and brought them in. To bad he cant turn pitchers around but the way Voit Urshella and DJ as well Maybin the year before he is making great moves and if they dont sign him they will brinf someone else in and they will probably perform better then anticipated.
He should show some loalty. Yanks gave him a shot and helped him double his value in 2 years. Cash has identified guys the Yankees can make better and brought them in. To bad he cant turn pitchers around but the way Voit Urshella and DJ as well Maybin the year before he is making great moves and if they dont sign him they will brinf someone else in and they will probably perform better then anticipated.
Come on, dude. Loyalty? Why don't the Yankees show some loyalty and pay a guy who vastly outperformed his contract?
Middle INF do not age well, especially one who already has a significant prior injury history. Few are anywhere near as good after 35 as before. The Yanks offer is apparently for 3 years, which is reasonable given that context. DJLM and his agent likely view this as his best chance to get paid, so they want 5 years.
Another factor several posters misunderstand is the FA contracts are not a reward for past performance, but are instead to be based on the expected future performance. If history tells us that INF decline after 35, why is it the Yanks fault if they take the position that they are not going to give him a contract that extends into his decline period?
I suspect that if they were talking with Torres, there would not be any hesitation to discuss a 5+ year deal.
Context matters, and posters who only view things in terms of dollars are missing the forest for the trees.
RE: People are overlooking the most important detail
Middle INF do not age well, especially one who already has a significant prior injury history. Few are anywhere near as good after 35 as before. The Yanks offer is apparently for 3 years, which is reasonable given that context. DJLM and his agent likely view this as his best chance to get paid, so they want 5 years.
Another factor several posters misunderstand is the FA contracts are not a reward for past performance, but are instead to be based on the expected future performance. If history tells us that INF decline after 35, why is it the Yanks fault if they take the position that they are not going to give him a contract that extends into his decline period?
I suspect that if they were talking with Torres, there would not be any hesitation to discuss a 5+ year deal.
Context matters, and posters who only view things in terms of dollars are missing the forest for the trees.
I agree rich. As much as I love DJLM I do not want to see another $25 mill contract at age 36. They have 2 already and Judge is coming. Sadly, the Mets beat them to Lindor and good for them. The ideal spot for DJ would be at 1st as he ages, but Voit is there.
Once LA resigns Justin Turner, they won’t have a need to DJ, so I wouldn’t expect them to be that interested. Plus, everyone is trying to watch their budget. LA has to also worry about signing Segar, Bellinger and Buehler.
is all part of the free agent process, no surprise there.
With that said, the Yanks need to get this done before ST,
that's how I feel at least. The longer they wait,
I feel the odds tend to diminish.
If you accept the reality that the Yankees aren't going to spend $300M (barring a change to the field of play financially as far as CBA / luxury tax / etc) while the next highest teams in baseball are in the low 200s...
then it's pretty easy to see that they need to be careful. Stanton's contract has a ton left on it. Cole's obviously does too. Torres is going to require a big, long-term pay day soon. Judge is on the doorstep of it now.
They want DJLM back. As they damn well should. Paying him into his late 30s doesn't seem wise, and it isn't evident that other teams are lining up for the privilege.
Frankly, I think they can afford to let him go if the alternative is giving him $100M.
b) the free agent SS crop next year is big. Seager, Story, Baez, Correa. (Lindor likely signs well before then).
a) there are teams out there willing to trade productive players just to get them off the books. replacements can be found. Look at what Lindor just fetched (hint - not a lot). It's possible that a guy like Story could be had for around the same.
Listen - it could end up being a tremendously bad move for them to let DJ walk. But we certainly will not know until we see what the contract is. And there's little evidence that NYY would be bidding against anyone but themselves by conceding to DJLM's demands right now.
as far as the "BUT THEY CAN AFFORD TO PAY AS MUCH AS IT TAKES AND THEN SOME"....I really can't refute the point. I'm simply of the view that it isn't worth our energy to talk about that. What owners do with their money isn't my business. I don't see the cash flow, and I don't have any influence over them.
The part that I find interesting is allocating the resources once you tell me about how much those resources are.
If you accept the reality that the Yankees aren't going to spend $300M (barring a change to the field of play financially as far as CBA / luxury tax / etc) while the next highest teams in baseball are in the low 200s...
then it's pretty easy to see that they need to be careful. Stanton's contract has a ton left on it. Cole's obviously does too. Torres is going to require a big, long-term pay day soon. Judge is on the doorstep of it now.
They want DJLM back. As they damn well should. Paying him into his late 30s doesn't seem wise, and it isn't evident that other teams are lining up for the privilege.
Frankly, I think they can afford to let him go if the alternative is giving him $100M.
b) the free agent SS crop next year is big. Seager, Story, Baez, Correa. (Lindor likely signs well before then).
a) there are teams out there willing to trade productive players just to get them off the books. replacements can be found. Look at what Lindor just fetched (hint - not a lot). It's possible that a guy like Story could be had for around the same.
Listen - it could end up being a tremendously bad move for them to let DJ walk. But we certainly will not know until we see what the contract is. And there's little evidence that NYY would be bidding against anyone but themselves by conceding to DJLM's demands right now.
.
NO team is going to spend 300 mill. on payroll,
that's really not the issue.
The Yanks don't have to concede
as you put it, how about negotiate.
If DJ signs elsewhere, they will wind up with somebody like Simmons or Wong or possibly Didi.
They might add an average starting pitcher, that doesn't
make them a better team then last year. (on paper at least). The Twinkies screwed up last year,
overpaying for a now, injury prone Donaldson, 4/92. That's not helping getting a deal done with DJ,
I might add. Stanton's contract is the albatross
around here for years to come, unfortunately!
In
I might add. Stanton's contract is the albatross
around here for years to come, unfortunately!
Stanton's health is the only thing making it look bad and it is bad if he does not play in 120-140 games. But I think if he can stay healthy his bat will prove important. He dropped weight in an effort to reduce injuries.
I'm not quite giving up on Stanton, yet. But I am beginning to worry about Aaron Judge. He will demand a huge contract shortly and you cannot sign him to $25-$30 mill for 6-8 years if he will miss 1/2 the season each year.
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
Buying a team on ego is a lot different than running a team for profit.
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
Buying a team on ego is a lot different than running a team for profit.
The point is that these teams were profitable for years and one really bad year they are all broke? With the sky high valuations, worst case you could sell a minority share for a cash infusion.
I'm just not buying that they are broke; they started this collusion last winter, now they have a built in excuse with COVID.
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
Buying a team on ego is a lot different than running a team for profit.
The point is that these teams were profitable for years and one really bad year they are all broke? With the sky high valuations, worst case you could sell a minority share for a cash infusion.
I'm just not buying that they are broke; they started this collusion last winter, now they have a built in excuse with COVID.
Yeah, sell off part of the team to get cash instead of tightening the belt for a year and waiting for the vaccine so the stadiums can open.
the fact that many minor league teams were dissolved might be due to the cash crunch and need to reduce overhead.
I think that it is a cash crunch and it is also a way to reduce the expenses associated with running a team. They paid those minor leaguers nada. COVID is a fine excuse to shut down a number or teams and I am sure the owners aren't unhappy closing down the minors.
the fact that many minor league teams were dissolved might be due to the cash crunch and need to reduce overhead.
I think that it is a cash crunch and it is also a way to reduce the expenses associated with running a team. They paid those minor leaguers nada. COVID is a fine excuse to shut down a number or teams and I am sure the owners aren't unhappy closing down the minors.
Not to mention, they know they are in for a bitter labor negotiation, and it's coming fast. It's basically here now.
So, paint a dark picture, lower the starting bar a bit, and negotiate from there. Business is business. It's not something to be celebrated, but it's a reality.
You mean you're not happy with Tyler Lyons and Greg Allen ? /s
Let him go out and see what his best offer is, and then the Yanks can match that.
They will almost certainly get the right to match. See if he can get what he feels like he's worth and whatever he gets offered match it, or don't.
If they let him go at reasonable term, then I'll bitch, not until then
There hasn't been a lot of movement anywhere, not just with the Yanks.
There hasn't been a lot of movement anywhere, not just with the Yanks.
Exactly, the Yankees are doing what everyone else is doing. Springer and Bauer haven’t been signed either.
Let him go out and see what his best offer is, and then the Yanks can match that.
They will almost certainly get the right to match. See if he can get what he feels like he's worth and whatever he gets offered match it, or don't.
If they let him go at reasonable term, then I'll bitch, not until then
I agree with you, but who says after 2 months he gives the Yankees a shot to match anything. I’m sure he will but it’s a weird year so I understand why everyone is taking time
Teams are still trying to understand the financials
Hal has given the Green light to spend. Yankees have huge contracts on their books with Cole, Stanton etc. Problem is Cashman
Yes and like the Yankees they will not go 5 years.
Quote:
miss George Steinbrenner? whatever you think of him he was willing to invest profits back into the on field product
Hal has given the Green light to spend. Yankees have huge contracts on their books with Cole, Stanton etc. Problem is Cashman
Maybe read up on luxury tax penalties.
Quote:
In comment 15118074 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
miss George Steinbrenner? whatever you think of him he was willing to invest profits back into the on field product
Hal has given the Green light to spend. Yankees have huge contracts on their books with Cole, Stanton etc. Problem is Cashman
Maybe read up on luxury tax penalties.
So what do you want a $300M payroll because Cashman cant take a $200M payroll which has been the highest or 2nd highest in the league the last decade and win a title or even make it to the World Series with it ?
The Tampa Bay Rays on a $50M payroll just beat the Yankees and made it to WS but people really think it's the payroll that is the issue ?
Maybe take a look at the pitching staff that he assembles every year or the HR or bust lineups that happen every year in the playoffs . It's amazing the pass he gets winning 1 WS in the last 20 years and not making it back to the WS in the last 11 years
Come on, dude. Loyalty? Why don't the Yankees show some loyalty and pay a guy who vastly outperformed his contract?
Middle INF do not age well, especially one who already has a significant prior injury history. Few are anywhere near as good after 35 as before. The Yanks offer is apparently for 3 years, which is reasonable given that context. DJLM and his agent likely view this as his best chance to get paid, so they want 5 years.
Another factor several posters misunderstand is the FA contracts are not a reward for past performance, but are instead to be based on the expected future performance. If history tells us that INF decline after 35, why is it the Yanks fault if they take the position that they are not going to give him a contract that extends into his decline period?
I suspect that if they were talking with Torres, there would not be any hesitation to discuss a 5+ year deal.
Context matters, and posters who only view things in terms of dollars are missing the forest for the trees.
Middle INF do not age well, especially one who already has a significant prior injury history. Few are anywhere near as good after 35 as before. The Yanks offer is apparently for 3 years, which is reasonable given that context. DJLM and his agent likely view this as his best chance to get paid, so they want 5 years.
Another factor several posters misunderstand is the FA contracts are not a reward for past performance, but are instead to be based on the expected future performance. If history tells us that INF decline after 35, why is it the Yanks fault if they take the position that they are not going to give him a contract that extends into his decline period?
I suspect that if they were talking with Torres, there would not be any hesitation to discuss a 5+ year deal.
Context matters, and posters who only view things in terms of dollars are missing the forest for the trees.
I agree rich. As much as I love DJLM I do not want to see another $25 mill contract at age 36. They have 2 already and Judge is coming. Sadly, the Mets beat them to Lindor and good for them. The ideal spot for DJ would be at 1st as he ages, but Voit is there.
With that said, the Yanks need to get this done before ST,
that's how I feel at least. The longer they wait,
I feel the odds tend to diminish.
like Machado and Harper, just saying.
If you accept the reality that the Yankees aren't going to spend $300M (barring a change to the field of play financially as far as CBA / luxury tax / etc) while the next highest teams in baseball are in the low 200s...
then it's pretty easy to see that they need to be careful. Stanton's contract has a ton left on it. Cole's obviously does too. Torres is going to require a big, long-term pay day soon. Judge is on the doorstep of it now.
They want DJLM back. As they damn well should. Paying him into his late 30s doesn't seem wise, and it isn't evident that other teams are lining up for the privilege.
Frankly, I think they can afford to let him go if the alternative is giving him $100M.
b) the free agent SS crop next year is big. Seager, Story, Baez, Correa. (Lindor likely signs well before then).
a) there are teams out there willing to trade productive players just to get them off the books. replacements can be found. Look at what Lindor just fetched (hint - not a lot). It's possible that a guy like Story could be had for around the same.
Listen - it could end up being a tremendously bad move for them to let DJ walk. But we certainly will not know until we see what the contract is. And there's little evidence that NYY would be bidding against anyone but themselves by conceding to DJLM's demands right now.
The part that I find interesting is allocating the resources once you tell me about how much those resources are.
If you accept the reality that the Yankees aren't going to spend $300M (barring a change to the field of play financially as far as CBA / luxury tax / etc) while the next highest teams in baseball are in the low 200s...
then it's pretty easy to see that they need to be careful. Stanton's contract has a ton left on it. Cole's obviously does too. Torres is going to require a big, long-term pay day soon. Judge is on the doorstep of it now.
They want DJLM back. As they damn well should. Paying him into his late 30s doesn't seem wise, and it isn't evident that other teams are lining up for the privilege.
Frankly, I think they can afford to let him go if the alternative is giving him $100M.
b) the free agent SS crop next year is big. Seager, Story, Baez, Correa. (Lindor likely signs well before then).
a) there are teams out there willing to trade productive players just to get them off the books. replacements can be found. Look at what Lindor just fetched (hint - not a lot). It's possible that a guy like Story could be had for around the same.
Listen - it could end up being a tremendously bad move for them to let DJ walk. But we certainly will not know until we see what the contract is. And there's little evidence that NYY would be bidding against anyone but themselves by conceding to DJLM's demands right now.
NO team is going to spend 300 mill. on payroll,
that's really not the issue.
The Yanks don't have to concede
as you put it, how about negotiate.
If DJ signs elsewhere, they will wind up with somebody like Simmons or Wong or possibly Didi.
They might add an average starting pitcher, that doesn't
make them a better team then last year. (on paper at least). The Twinkies screwed up last year,
overpaying for a now, injury prone Donaldson, 4/92. That's not helping getting a deal done with DJ,
I might add. Stanton's contract is the albatross
around here for years to come, unfortunately!
I might add. Stanton's contract is the albatross
around here for years to come, unfortunately!
Stanton's health is the only thing making it look bad and it is bad if he does not play in 120-140 games. But I think if he can stay healthy his bat will prove important. He dropped weight in an effort to reduce injuries.
I'm not quite giving up on Stanton, yet. But I am beginning to worry about Aaron Judge. He will demand a huge contract shortly and you cannot sign him to $25-$30 mill for 6-8 years if he will miss 1/2 the season each year.
If he's asking for 5 years, the Yanks should hold the line
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
Quote:
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
Buying a team on ego is a lot different than running a team for profit.
Quote:
In comment 15119238 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
Buying a team on ego is a lot different than running a team for profit.
The point is that these teams were profitable for years and one really bad year they are all broke? With the sky high valuations, worst case you could sell a minority share for a cash infusion.
I'm just not buying that they are broke; they started this collusion last winter, now they have a built in excuse with COVID.
Quote:
In comment 15119269 BH28 said:
Quote:
In comment 15119238 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
EVERYBODY is broke. If it were up to the owners, they'd move back the season in the hopes of allowing fans in the stadium to make money. The players obviously want a full season to start on time.
That sounds like BS to me from the oweners. Atlanta Braves had $476 million in revenue vs $340 million in expenses in 2019.
If 2020 was all expenses and no income, that means they lost 2.5 years worth of profits. I'm just not buying that these guys have no money to spend unless they have completely mismanaged their clubs. Look how much the Mets were sold for...DURING a pandemic.
Buying a team on ego is a lot different than running a team for profit.
The point is that these teams were profitable for years and one really bad year they are all broke? With the sky high valuations, worst case you could sell a minority share for a cash infusion.
I'm just not buying that they are broke; they started this collusion last winter, now they have a built in excuse with COVID.
Yeah, sell off part of the team to get cash instead of tightening the belt for a year and waiting for the vaccine so the stadiums can open.
I think that it is a cash crunch and it is also a way to reduce the expenses associated with running a team. They paid those minor leaguers nada. COVID is a fine excuse to shut down a number or teams and I am sure the owners aren't unhappy closing down the minors.
If he's asking for 5 years, the Yanks should hold the line
Is his agent Boras? Such a Boras like move
Quote:
the fact that many minor league teams were dissolved might be due to the cash crunch and need to reduce overhead.
I think that it is a cash crunch and it is also a way to reduce the expenses associated with running a team. They paid those minor leaguers nada. COVID is a fine excuse to shut down a number or teams and I am sure the owners aren't unhappy closing down the minors.
Not to mention, they know they are in for a bitter labor negotiation, and it's coming fast. It's basically here now.
So, paint a dark picture, lower the starting bar a bit, and negotiate from there. Business is business. It's not something to be celebrated, but it's a reality.