Dissapointing 2 games but the Knicks are 5-5 after 10 which no one expected.
Randle is playing like a star player ehich again no one expected..
Starters need a change, i would put Rivers in for Bullock, adds a ball handler and a more competent shooter.
Barrett is really dissapointing right now, he is playing like Randle last year, jist barreling into people with no plan, it seems he forces his possessions rather than letting thr gmae come to him.
So the question now is, who can we find to be the running mate for randle?
RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.
For the knicks, hopefully some free agents will see the difference and help to get this team going
RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.
Rj, Obi, Cap filler, 2021 dallas, 22 knicks, 23 dallas, 24 knicks
Rivers Beal burks Randle Mitch
-LaMelo is the goods. Man he would have been perfect here.
-LaMelo is the goods. Man he would have been perfect here.
wanted him but lets see what Obi can do. I would call up with wizards and see what they want from Beal. Always loved his game and he is taking it to another level. Guy gets better each and every year.
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but I'd go all in for Bradley Beal. Probably the only "star" who is even remotely available if at all.
RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.
Rj, Obi, Cap filler, 2021 dallas, 22 knicks, 23 dallas, 24 knicks
Rivers Beal burks Randle Mitch
Thats a lot but I would still do it. I don't like saying this because he seems like such a good guy and plays hard but the Knicks need to explore trading Barrett before its too late. Meaning his viewed potential is still high around the league.
Washington ( or another team) could sell themselves and fan base on a guy like Barrett due to his age/ 3rd overall pick etc. I just hope the Knicks don't hold on too long.
Probably a combination, if they were smart they would want a bunch of draft picks and young players and start over..
Yeah I agree. Based on what I've seen, I'd probably ask for Mitch and Quickley before RJ, and probably Toppin, too. That's gonna be a huge blow if he's just mediocre.
I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.
I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.
Trading toppin for a top 10-15 player in the league is not giving up on him..
as for the melo deal the second you signed stat thr focus was to find the 2nd guy he wanted to play with..
Where the knicms messed up was not the melo deal, it was not fidnign a point guard to play with melo and stat
Bit of a buy low on Graham since he's started off the year ice cold, plus they need to start LaMelo.
Graham is also a FA after the year who figures to walk, so the Knicks may be able to get him on the cheap (DSJ + Noel + 2nds?)
Bit of a buy low on Graham since he's started off the year ice cold, plus they need to start LaMelo.
Graham is also a FA after the year who figures to walk, so the Knicks may be able to get him on the cheap (DSJ + Noel + 2nds?)
Yeah i like Graham, not a true point guard but still a really good fit since the ball is in randles hands a lot
This is a bit of a leap no? It's 10 games. He still has value I would think.
If the objective is to just focus on development, then they should move RJ to the 3 and start Rivers (or Burks when he returns). This will allow RJ to continue to get a ton of minutes, and you just take the lumps as he is going to have games were he looks terrible, but hopefully in the long term he develops into a borderline all star player.
If the objective is to win games and get to the playoffs then RJ should be moved to the bench. He stinks right now, and I am not all that convinced that he is a good fit playing next to Randle. Randle would be better off surrounded by Mitch and 3 shooters. He has been so good at taking the ball at the elbow and driving or creating from there which leaves RJ standing at the 3 point line waiting to take an open look that he can't make at this point.
When Randle is out of the game it allows RJ to move into that facilitator role and try to do some of the things that Randle is doing.
I like this new version of NBA post Golden state, not as much as the 90s, but at least it’s exciting. Rarely watch outside playoffs due to the Knicks total ineptitude. I’ve tried to get in numberous times over year, but interest would wane. Can’t force fandom. It seems like the Knicks are building something similar to what the Giants are and this seems like a real effort to build long term success.
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that despite everyone here, that the Knicks are ready to give up on Toppin yet. I mean, we hit a couple of tough games in a row, but we're leveling out.
I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.
Trading toppin for a top 10-15 player in the league is not giving up on him..
as for the melo deal the second you signed stat thr focus was to find the 2nd guy he wanted to play with..
Where the knicms messed up was not the melo deal, it was not fidnign a point guard to play with melo and stat
I think that the START of where the Knicks messed up was just not waiting and signing Melo in free agency. There are plenty of other mess ups during that period to point to as well. Billups amnesty, giving Amare a contract in the first place, and so on and so forth.
I don't think it's just about a point guard there. But whatever. It's all speculation anyways.
As for Toppin, I'm just saying it's pretty early in his career to trade him for a top 10-15 player who is again on the last year of their contract that you can potentially sign in the offseason without giving up any assets at all. Much like the Melo situation.
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In comment 15118469 Jan in DC said:
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that despite everyone here, that the Knicks are ready to give up on Toppin yet. I mean, we hit a couple of tough games in a row, but we're leveling out.
I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.
Trading toppin for a top 10-15 player in the league is not giving up on him..
as for the melo deal the second you signed stat thr focus was to find the 2nd guy he wanted to play with..
Where the knicms messed up was not the melo deal, it was not fidnign a point guard to play with melo and stat
I think that the START of where the Knicks messed up was just not waiting and signing Melo in free agency. There are plenty of other mess ups during that period to point to as well. Billups amnesty, giving Amare a contract in the first place, and so on and so forth.
I don't think it's just about a point guard there. But whatever. It's all speculation anyways.
As for Toppin, I'm just saying it's pretty early in his career to trade him for a top 10-15 player who is again on the last year of their contract that you can potentially sign in the offseason without giving up any assets at all. Much like the Melo situation.
Beal has 1 more year after this year i believe..
Also Knicks couldnt sign Melo in free agency, they would of had to get rid of Wilson Chandler, Felton and few others to make it eork, Knicks didnt have Max space
To me the one piece I care about keeping right now is Mitch. Sure Barrett will end up being a pretty solid player but he will not be a superstar and he can be replaced with a more efficient vet. I prefer to give up Toppin over Barrett in light of randle’s play but I don’t think he will show enough before the deadline to excite people. I would offer the following:
Barrett or Toppin
Knox
Smith Jr - salary filler
Both 2020 1st rounders
2022 - choice of Dallas or Knicks pick whichever is better
3 2nd rounders
Swap rights on 2021 and 2023
This is a lot but still cheaper than Kawhi and davis trades. It may cost more but I would be fine with this trade. It would give the Knicks:
PG - Payton, Quickley
SG - Beale, Rivers, Frank
SF - Burks, Bulluck
PF - Randle, Toppin
C - Mitch, Noel
In this case you still have cap space to add another really good player or to sign multiple solid players. You still have some second round picks and a 2021 pick. To me that team is probably top 6 in East with a lot of flexibility, a top 10 player in Beale entering his prime and you get 1.5 years to make him happy before he can opt out and get him to sign the max.
Also Knicks couldnt sign Melo in free agency, they would of had to get rid of Wilson Chandler, Felton and few others to make it eork, Knicks didnt have Max space [/quote]
Thanks for saying this. I'm so sick of people categorizing the Melo trade incorrectly. What they really gave up boils down to Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, 1st round pick and pick swap. Melo was 3rd in MVP a few years after that for the Knicks. The problem was the moves they made after they got Melo- not the trade itself. He started one year with Toney Douglas and Landry Fields as his starting backcourt...
I would also go all in for Beal but its going to be costly. Just look at what the Pelicans could offer. Here is a reasonable starting point- Barrett/ Toppin and 4 1st round picks. But honestly I would guess other teams could top that with players and picks...
RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.
Beal and Randle could be a fun combo to watch.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but I think RJ Barrett is a swing and miss. Worse maybe than Knox. I know hes young and all, but his game is so uninspired and middling. You expect younger guys to have so much more vigor in their games.
I said this yesterday, you can see why fans get frustrated with Thibs, he is stubborn with his lineups
Did you see that last drive????
Take the dribble and go up strong. He at the very least can rise. Randle should show the dude how to finish.
How they are only down 6 is amazing
Knox keeping us in it.
That was a pretty quick 180 youve made on RJ nyg16....I hope its not my fault for souring you on him. Lol
He's been awful.
Alot of that is from letting Randle do it so often. Sure he has a handle, which is nice for a change, but he doesnt think like a distributor and makes really bad decisions....often. He shouldnt get the ball until they cross the timeline unless he is leading a break.
Yup, Rj getting cooked on defense and cant hit anything..
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Woof
He's been awful.
I have a bad feeling he is going to remain that way. He reminds me a little of a smaller John Wallace. Talent is there, just cant play the game very well.
Now RJ Barrett is concerning and always has been concerning, very stiff, besides up and down below average athletically. He is a bad shooter and doesn’t have good form unlike knox. The difference is he wants to be a star so badly so he will get better but def not a star. Every time he scores it seems like he puts so much effort into making a shot never anything easy
When will we catch a break?
When will we catch a break?
Numbers dont pan out, but Reddish looks like a more promising player. Better D, more aggressive to the rim and he seems to have a better stroke from 3....def a better FT guy so if he can get to the rim he could help there.
I am beginning to think he simply doesnt have the head for the game. He wasnt all that great imv at Duke and he makes Trevor Ariza look like Jordan.
Clyde just echoed my statement two nights ago: Barrett should go to the hole more. Then when they start backing off you, put your back to the basket and use your quickness. He IS two things....quick and springy.
Take that bitch to the hole, make your lay ups and free throws.
I dont know what athlete you are watching...his first step is sudden and rangy, and is pretty good at changing direction.
You know the guy he is guarding is lighting it uo right?
Ok......what are the other parts of his game that you like?
If your as bad a defender as Barrett you better be scoring 30. This guy can’t even shoot.
You cant win with your back court being that bad shooting wise..
Rj should not start
If only they had listened to me *sigh*
Averaging 16 and 7 on 51% shooting.
Doesn’t leave us much. Very doubtful a star sees RJ and goes “damn I need to play with that dude.”
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He’s at least a decent shooter. Reggie Bullock will not matter to the Knicks 1-2 seasons from now, and Rivers is better off the bench. I’d like a 5 of Quickley, RJ, Knox, Randle, Mitch.
Rj should not start
You either have to start him and hope he gets better or trade him soon. Not sure if his shot is a fixable thing. He’s killing any value he might have every time he throws up a 25 percent shooting night.
That chance is gone. Who the hell would want him? I mean, they could obviously just trade him for a bag of balls but he is destroying any trade value he may have had with his performances lately
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to see Rose and Thibs trade Rj, they didnt draft him, get what you can
That chance is gone. Who the hell would want him? I mean, they could obviously just trade him for a bag of balls but he is destroying any trade value he may have had with his performances lately
You have to hope someone says they want the 3rd overall pick from last year..
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In comment 15119399 PetesHereNow said:
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He’s at least a decent shooter. Reggie Bullock will not matter to the Knicks 1-2 seasons from now, and Rivers is better off the bench. I’d like a 5 of Quickley, RJ, Knox, Randle, Mitch.
Rj should not start
You either have to start him and hope he gets better or trade him soon. Not sure if his shot is a fixable thing. He’s killing any value he might have every time he throws up a 25 percent shooting night.
He is killing this team, like it or not Thibs wants to win and he will quickly lose this team if Rj keeps going 5 for 20 everh night..
This is awful, this isnt even oh he is young he will get right, no this is really bad
You dont trade Randle either, you build around Randle and Mitch..
eventually you have to start keeping players and build a team
I agree about Randle
Payton and rj cant play together, Payton has to be oit of the rotation..
rivers/quickley
Burks/rj
Knox/bullock
Randle/toppin
mitch/noel
Payton and Rj are wide open for a reason, noticed they closed out on rivers hard..
A moment of inspiration. A lifetime of regret.
Cant shoot
Cant D up on the perimeter
Cant defend post up guys
Cant finish very well
Mediocre to below average handle
Cant pass
No floor vision
Nice first step (which you can build on if he learned some post game)
Pretty good leaper
No intensity
No toughness
He seems to be waiting for the game to open up for him....and that is just not how it always works. You have to pick one thing at a time, and develop a killer instinct for doing that well. Not the same player obv, but look at Jordan and his shooting. He had one part figured out (mid-range and getting to the net) he had to focus on the rest.
RJ has a child's mentality to playing this game.
Cant shoot
Cant D up on the perimeter
Cant defend post up guys
Cant finish very well
Mediocre to below average handle
Cant pass
No floor vision
Nice first step (which you can build on if he learned some post game)
Pretty good leaper
No intensity
No toughness
He seems to be waiting for the game to open up for him....and that is just not how it always works. You have to pick one thing at a time, and develop a killer instinct for doing that well. Not the same player obv, but look at Jordan and his shooting. He had one part figured out (mid-range and getting to the net) he had to focus on the rest.
RJ has a child's mentality to playing this game.
Major bummer. I was hoping at least he was a hard nosed grinder, a try hard who played with intensity and toughness. I rarely get to see full games ... so this is sobering. (Psychologically sobering not actually sobering, let’s not go crazy).
I’m most concerned about your analysis of his defense. Lack of lateral quickness and instincts is hard to teach. I coached a lot of hoops and could always spot the kids who had “it” on defense early on. No amount of prodding or intensity could turn it turn it around when they didn’t. Sheesh. 5-3 seems like a lifetime ago.
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RJ stinks real bad right now and they need to find somebody like a former player to work with him every day. One guy could be Allan Houston. Coach's son, terrific shooter off screens, great spot up shooter, could play with his back to the basket....Im not sure what Houston actually does for the team, but sharing some shooting tech and drills for a young guy who is the same size as RJ.
I’m most concerned about your analysis of his defense. Lack of lateral quickness and instincts is hard to teach. I coached a lot of hoops and could always spot the kids who had “it” on defense early on. No amount of prodding or intensity could turn it turn it around when they didn’t. Sheesh. 5-3 seems like a lifetime ago.
The lateral quicks is def alarming. I think he has a quick north south first step. But he crosses over his feet all the time. Looks clumsy. Surprised he didnt get that coached out of him at Duke. I though K would have seen that.
When I played high school ball in North Jersey, I was taught early on that the quicker you moved your feet, the better chance you had of getting to your spot than the guy dribbling a ball....usually. I was shorter than most point guards in High School so I had to really rely on that and making it harder for the guy I was defending to dribble the ball. I got really good at it and still use those techniques to this day when playing pick up.
Barrett CAN do the same thing, but it is hard...much harder to do physically. It is exhausting. I dont see anybody teaching him that style of D. Think Patrick Beverly....Frank moves his feet terrificly on D. Barrett is just slow and clumsy in everything he does. Even when he turns the ball over, his head isnt up looking where to go. He buries it to the floor trying to run a straight line as fast as he can as if thats gonna help.
He's very frustrating to watch.
Sounded better coming from him but you can tell hr is a leader
He's been a bust and not currently in the rotation but maybe the Knicks should take a flier on Malik Monk. Does have that Kentucky connection. DSJ for Monk?
But whatever they do this offseason and going forward- they have to find some shooters. And they cannot play Payton and Barrett together anymore.
He's been a bust and not currently in the rotation but maybe the Knicks should take a flier on Malik Monk. Does have that Kentucky connection. DSJ for Monk?
But whatever they do this offseason and going forward- they have to find some shooters. And they cannot play Payton and Barrett together anymore.
The biggest problem is they are passing up open 3s to drive into thebpaint and then get in trouble..
and it is not jist Payton and Rj, Quickley and Rivers passdd up open shots as well
Beal 34, 8 and 9. This season sure looks like his full-on coming out party
Avdija 6 and 5, he's shown some real flashes. Impressive kid
Hawks beat the Sixers
Sabonis 28, 11 and 3
Barnes 30 and 8
Haliburton 12, 3 and 4 (he's been impressive)
So... Chris Boucher is really good? 20, 8 and 3 blocks. Suddenly a beast.
-Melo shooting 41% from 3. Feels like it may hand on for a multi-year run as a role player. As it is, he's 14th all-time in points and should finish the season top 10... all-time. Legit shot to pass Shaq (8th) before he retires.
Really miss Burks to knock down open 3s..
Big picture Knicks are 5-6 which we all would have signed up for.
The Good- Robinson playing well, Knox showing some life and Quickley looking promising. Randle has been great.
The Bad- Barrett is really struggling and doesn't look like hes improved much since last year. Frank is injured and nowhere to be found. DSJ will probably be out of the league.
Honestly I don’t expect much, I’ll call this season a success if Knox becomes a contributor and Obi and Quickley show potential. Givd these three 25-30 min each a game and see what you have. As for RJ, somebody should tell him if you miss 3 shots you are not allowed to shoot any more. Only drives to the basket I don’t care if your shot gets blocked every time. He has to learn to score, he doesn’t have to be penciled in for 20 shots a game.
Honestly I don’t expect much, I’ll call this season a success if Knox becomes a contributor and Obi and Quickley show potential. Givd these three 25-30 min each a game and see what you have. As for RJ, somebody should tell him if you miss 3 shots you are not allowed to shoot any more. Only drives to the basket I don’t care if your shot gets blocked every time. He has to learn to score, he doesn’t have to be penciled in for 20 shots a game.
What young player is not getting consistent minutes?
Honestly I don’t expect much, I’ll call this season a success if Knox becomes a contributor and Obi and Quickley show potential. Givd these three 25-30 min each a game and see what you have. As for RJ, somebody should tell him if you miss 3 shots you are not allowed to shoot any more. Only drives to the basket I don’t care if your shot gets blocked every time. He has to learn to score, he doesn’t have to be penciled in for 20 shots a game.
What youngsters do you want him to play more? And what vets are getting run into the ground? We are 11 games in. Such a ridiculous myth of Thibs.
Maybe the NBA could handicap 3 pointers like golf. Give Barrett 6 points per bucket.