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NFT: Knicks: 5-5 after 10 games

nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 8:13 am
Dissapointing 2 games but the Knicks are 5-5 after 10 which no one expected.

Randle is playing like a star player ehich again no one expected..

Starters need a change, i would put Rivers in for Bullock, adds a ball handler and a more competent shooter.

Barrett is really dissapointing right now, he is playing like Randle last year, jist barreling into people with no plan, it seems he forces his possessions rather than letting thr gmae come to him.

So the question now is, who can we find to be the running mate for randle?
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I said it before,  
Jon in NYC : 1/11/2021 8:15 am : link
but I'd go all in for Bradley Beal. Probably the only "star" who is even remotely available if at all.

RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.
Think  
thomasa510 : 1/11/2021 8:44 am : link
Think both the knicks and giants are being reminded of the impact that good coaching can have on an organization.

For the knicks, hopefully some free agents will see the difference and help to get this team going
RE: I said it before,  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 9:47 am : link
In comment 15118249 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
but I'd go all in for Bradley Beal. Probably the only "star" who is even remotely available if at all.

RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.


Rj, Obi, Cap filler, 2021 dallas, 22 knicks, 23 dallas, 24 knicks

Rivers Beal burks Randle Mitch
wizards are stuck with Russ  
Enzo : 1/11/2021 9:59 am : link
for probably 2 years after this. They may want vets in return for Beal....if they decide to move on from Beal.
Probably  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2021 10:16 am : link
not a fit roster wise but I'm loving me some Evan Mobley.

-LaMelo is the goods. Man he would have been perfect here.
RE: Probably  
TommyWiseau : 1/11/2021 10:19 am : link
In comment 15118409 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not a fit roster wise but I'm loving me some Evan Mobley.

-LaMelo is the goods. Man he would have been perfect here.


wanted him but lets see what Obi can do. I would call up with wizards and see what they want from Beal. Always loved his game and he is taking it to another level. Guy gets better each and every year.
The  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2021 10:22 am : link
Knicks would trade Obi for Ball in a MILLISECOND. Not knocking Obi but Ball is going to be an above-average AT WORST NBA PG. It's not even close to realistic but I'd give Obi/Knox/Frank for Ball without thinking twice.
RE: RE: I said it before,  
TyreeHelmet : 1/11/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15118359 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15118249 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


but I'd go all in for Bradley Beal. Probably the only "star" who is even remotely available if at all.

RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.



Rj, Obi, Cap filler, 2021 dallas, 22 knicks, 23 dallas, 24 knicks

Rivers Beal burks Randle Mitch


Thats a lot but I would still do it. I don't like saying this because he seems like such a good guy and plays hard but the Knicks need to explore trading Barrett before its too late. Meaning his viewed potential is still high around the league.

Washington ( or another team) could sell themselves and fan base on a guy like Barrett due to his age/ 3rd overall pick etc. I just hope the Knicks don't hold on too long.

RE: wizards are stuck with Russ  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15118382 Enzo said:
Quote:
for probably 2 years after this. They may want vets in return for Beal....if they decide to move on from Beal.


Probably a combination, if they were smart they would want a bunch of draft picks and young players and start over..
I suspect the shine is already off Barrett around the league  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2021 10:26 am : link
He's been awful, and hasn't shown the slightest bit of improvement from last season other than FT%.
RE: I suspect the shine is already off Barrett around the league  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15118430 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He's been awful, and hasn't shown the slightest bit of improvement from last season other than FT%.

Yeah I agree. Based on what I've seen, I'd probably ask for Mitch and Quickley before RJ, and probably Toppin, too. That's gonna be a huge blow if he's just mediocre.
I can't imagine  
Jan in DC : 1/11/2021 10:43 am : link
that despite everyone here, that the Knicks are ready to give up on Toppin yet. I mean, we hit a couple of tough games in a row, but we're leveling out.

I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.
RE: I can't imagine  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15118469 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
that despite everyone here, that the Knicks are ready to give up on Toppin yet. I mean, we hit a couple of tough games in a row, but we're leveling out.

I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.


Trading toppin for a top 10-15 player in the league is not giving up on him..

as for the melo deal the second you signed stat thr focus was to find the 2nd guy he wanted to play with..

Where the knicms messed up was not the melo deal, it was not fidnign a point guard to play with melo and stat
I'm  
Jon in NYC : 1/11/2021 10:55 am : link
not giving up on Toppin at all. That said, if Randle is a future piece, a turn very few would have expected coming into the year, not sure where Obi fits long term.
The other  
Jon in NYC : 1/11/2021 10:58 am : link
guy I'd explore a trade for is Devonte Graham.

Bit of a buy low on Graham since he's started off the year ice cold, plus they need to start LaMelo.

Graham is also a FA after the year who figures to walk, so the Knicks may be able to get him on the cheap (DSJ + Noel + 2nds?)
RE: The other  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 11:01 am : link
In comment 15118500 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
guy I'd explore a trade for is Devonte Graham.

Bit of a buy low on Graham since he's started off the year ice cold, plus they need to start LaMelo.

Graham is also a FA after the year who figures to walk, so the Knicks may be able to get him on the cheap (DSJ + Noel + 2nds?)


Yeah i like Graham, not a true point guard but still a really good fit since the ball is in randles hands a lot
Howard Stern:  
montanagiant : 1/11/2021 11:20 am : link
Quote:
"I almost called everyone in for an emergency show due to the events of last week. Obviously, I'm referring to the event of the Knicks off to a 5-3 start."

No Bullock tonight  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 11:53 am : link
..
RE: I suspect the shine is already off Barrett around the league  
djm : 1/11/2021 11:59 am : link
In comment 15118430 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He's been awful, and hasn't shown the slightest bit of improvement from last season other than FT%.


This is a bit of a leap no? It's 10 games. He still has value I would think.
Starters Need A Change  
Mike in NJ : 1/11/2021 12:09 pm : link
The thing that they are going to have to juggle this year is whether they want to take the patient approach and go all in on development (which is how I am hoping they go), or whether they want to win games and make a run at the playoffs.

If the objective is to just focus on development, then they should move RJ to the 3 and start Rivers (or Burks when he returns). This will allow RJ to continue to get a ton of minutes, and you just take the lumps as he is going to have games were he looks terrible, but hopefully in the long term he develops into a borderline all star player.

If the objective is to win games and get to the playoffs then RJ should be moved to the bench. He stinks right now, and I am not all that convinced that he is a good fit playing next to Randle. Randle would be better off surrounded by Mitch and 3 shooters. He has been so good at taking the ball at the elbow and driving or creating from there which leaves RJ standing at the 3 point line waiting to take an open look that he can't make at this point.

When Randle is out of the game it allows RJ to move into that facilitator role and try to do some of the things that Randle is doing.
Id start kevin Knox tonight  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 3:11 pm : link
he has been shooting 3s pretty well tonight, I changed my mind about Rivers starting, let him come off the bench
shooting 3s pretty well for the season  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 3:11 pm : link
..
Is this a Knicks team that should regrab my knicks interest?  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/11/2021 3:23 pm : link
Giants and Knicks used to be one 1a and 1b. My interest in Knicks pretty much died how with a combo of my hatred for Dolan as I grew older, not liking what NBA game was evolving into, and the Knicks making moves to win a few more games as opposed to focusing on getting a championship.

I like this new version of NBA post Golden state, not as much as the 90s, but at least it’s exciting. Rarely watch outside playoffs due to the Knicks total ineptitude. I’ve tried to get in numberous times over year, but interest would wane. Can’t force fandom. It seems like the Knicks are building something similar to what the Giants are and this seems like a real effort to build long term success.
RE: RE: I can't imagine  
Jan in DC : 1/11/2021 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15118474 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15118469 Jan in DC said:


Quote:


that despite everyone here, that the Knicks are ready to give up on Toppin yet. I mean, we hit a couple of tough games in a row, but we're leveling out.

I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.



Trading toppin for a top 10-15 player in the league is not giving up on him..

as for the melo deal the second you signed stat thr focus was to find the 2nd guy he wanted to play with..

Where the knicms messed up was not the melo deal, it was not fidnign a point guard to play with melo and stat


I think that the START of where the Knicks messed up was just not waiting and signing Melo in free agency. There are plenty of other mess ups during that period to point to as well. Billups amnesty, giving Amare a contract in the first place, and so on and so forth.

I don't think it's just about a point guard there. But whatever. It's all speculation anyways.

As for Toppin, I'm just saying it's pretty early in his career to trade him for a top 10-15 player who is again on the last year of their contract that you can potentially sign in the offseason without giving up any assets at all. Much like the Melo situation.
RE: RE: RE: I can't imagine  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15119019 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15118474 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15118469 Jan in DC said:


Quote:


that despite everyone here, that the Knicks are ready to give up on Toppin yet. I mean, we hit a couple of tough games in a row, but we're leveling out.

I think the development of Mitch, Toppin and RJ needs to be the primary focus of this team. Maybe if we're competitive, we can get Beal to sign in the offseason instead of having to give up everything to get him, ala the Carmelo deal.



Trading toppin for a top 10-15 player in the league is not giving up on him..

as for the melo deal the second you signed stat thr focus was to find the 2nd guy he wanted to play with..

Where the knicms messed up was not the melo deal, it was not fidnign a point guard to play with melo and stat



I think that the START of where the Knicks messed up was just not waiting and signing Melo in free agency. There are plenty of other mess ups during that period to point to as well. Billups amnesty, giving Amare a contract in the first place, and so on and so forth.

I don't think it's just about a point guard there. But whatever. It's all speculation anyways.

As for Toppin, I'm just saying it's pretty early in his career to trade him for a top 10-15 player who is again on the last year of their contract that you can potentially sign in the offseason without giving up any assets at all. Much like the Melo situation.


Beal has 1 more year after this year i believe..

Also Knicks couldnt sign Melo in free agency, they would of had to get rid of Wilson Chandler, Felton and few others to make it eork, Knicks didnt have Max space
Yes  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2021 4:17 pm : link
Beal has one guaranteed year left and then a player option which he will decline barring major injury.
Sharing my take on Beal from my post in last night thread  
GMEN46 : 1/11/2021 4:48 pm : link
The Knicks have to be in all in on him. He is exactly what they need a 2 way shooting guard who can score at will. Only 27 years old. I know OKC has better picks then us but he isn’t going there. I think the main competition would be the Pelicans and the nuggets. It will be very costly, but this is the type of player the Knicks need to go all in for and it will probably cost similar to what Pelicans or OKC got for Davis and Kawhi. The reason I say go all in now is because unless Kawhi leaves the clippers there really aren’t superstar free agents left this year and the only one next year is Beale. If Knicks don’t go hard for him then He will get traded before the deadline and if it’s to the Pelicans then I can’t see him leaving that team with all of the talent.

To me the one piece I care about keeping right now is Mitch. Sure Barrett will end up being a pretty solid player but he will not be a superstar and he can be replaced with a more efficient vet. I prefer to give up Toppin over Barrett in light of randle’s play but I don’t think he will show enough before the deadline to excite people. I would offer the following:

Barrett or Toppin
Knox
Smith Jr - salary filler
Both 2020 1st rounders
2022 - choice of Dallas or Knicks pick whichever is better
3 2nd rounders
Swap rights on 2021 and 2023

This is a lot but still cheaper than Kawhi and davis trades. It may cost more but I would be fine with this trade. It would give the Knicks:

PG - Payton, Quickley
SG - Beale, Rivers, Frank
SF - Burks, Bulluck
PF - Randle, Toppin
C - Mitch, Noel

In this case you still have cap space to add another really good player or to sign multiple solid players. You still have some second round picks and a 2021 pick. To me that team is probably top 6 in East with a lot of flexibility, a top 10 player in Beale entering his prime and you get 1.5 years to make him happy before he can opt out and get him to sign the max.

RE: RE: RE: RE: I can't imagine  
TyreeHelmet : 1/11/2021 5:21 pm : link
Beal has 1 more year after this year i believe..

Also Knicks couldnt sign Melo in free agency, they would of had to get rid of Wilson Chandler, Felton and few others to make it eork, Knicks didnt have Max space [/quote]

Thanks for saying this. I'm so sick of people categorizing the Melo trade incorrectly. What they really gave up boils down to Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, 1st round pick and pick swap. Melo was 3rd in MVP a few years after that for the Knicks. The problem was the moves they made after they got Melo- not the trade itself. He started one year with Toney Douglas and Landry Fields as his starting backcourt...

I would also go all in for Beal but its going to be costly. Just look at what the Pelicans could offer. Here is a reasonable starting point- Barrett/ Toppin and 4 1st round picks. But honestly I would guess other teams could top that with players and picks...
Rivers starting for bullock  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 5:34 pm : link
..
Picking up right where we left off.  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2021 7:15 pm : link
Everything is so difficult on offense.
8-0 Hornets 3 minutes in...  
Anakim : 1/11/2021 7:16 pm : link
.
Rj gets beat off the dribble so easily  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 7:16 pm : link
getting wide open shots and cant knock em down
RJ...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2021 7:18 pm : link
Ugh.
Okay I'm officially  
Jon in NYC : 1/11/2021 7:19 pm : link
worried about RJ. All optimism after the first few games has waned.
LOL. 10-0  
Anakim : 1/11/2021 7:20 pm : link
How many shots have we missed so far?
Will RJ ever be a semi-decent shooter?  
Anakim : 1/11/2021 7:20 pm : link
If not, he's not going to amount to much
RE: I said it before,  
chopperhatch : 1/11/2021 7:24 pm : link
In comment 15118249 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
but I'd go all in for Bradley Beal. Probably the only "star" who is even remotely available if at all.

RJ + Obi the two main pieces, but the Wiz could really take their picks outside of Mitch and Randle.


Beal and Randle could be a fun combo to watch.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I think RJ Barrett is a swing and miss. Worse maybe than Knox. I know hes young and all, but his game is so uninspired and middling. You expect younger guys to have so much more vigor in their games.
Rj is terrible right now  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 7:24 pm : link
put him on the bench, he kills the team with his terrible shooting
Chopper.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2021 7:25 pm : link
Give me Beal in a heartbeat.
Make a fucking sub  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 7:26 pm : link
jesus christ, a blind man can see Payton is terriblr and there are no shooters on the court..

I said this yesterday, you can see why fans get frustrated with Thibs, he is stubborn with his lineups
This is the team I was expecting.  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2021 7:27 pm : link
.
RE: Rj is terrible right now  
chopperhatch : 1/11/2021 7:27 pm : link
In comment 15119250 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
put him on the bench, he kills the team with his terrible shooting


Did you see that last drive????

Take the dribble and go up strong. He at the very least can rise. Randle should show the dude how to finish.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2021 7:29 pm : link
Defense lacking.
Randle only one  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2021 7:30 pm : link
Who showed up to play.
Quickley.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2021 7:30 pm : link
Nice. And 1.
Mike Breen.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2021 7:33 pm : link
I concur this is embarrassing.
Feels  
Jon in NYC : 1/11/2021 7:35 pm : link
like we should be down way more than 9.
Signs of life  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2021 7:40 pm : link
from the bench.
See how much better the offense looks  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2021 7:41 pm : link
with floor spacers, what a novel concept..

How they are only down 6 is amazing
How we are done only 6.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2021 7:41 pm : link
I don't know.
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