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| What you want, what you need and what you realistically can have are all about to collide when it comes to the Giants and their desire to keep Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson as stalwarts on their defensive line. They want both of them. They need both of them. Realistically, though, can they keep both of them? |
all but the leaf blower for Engram. An iron rake, maybe a broom tops. :-)
Johnson and Hill played well and I am sure there will be low cost phase two or three FAs that will sign for $2-$4 mill range.
Patrick Graham is the stick that stirs the drink.
Availability is huge.
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In comment 15118311 bw in dc said:
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do we back up the Brinks Truck for a guy who finally had a career year or invest money for a QB who looks like a game manager for an offense that can’t break 18ppg.?
Let LW go...
WTF does one have to do with the other?
You need to look at these situations holistically. Not in a vacuum of: "LW is just such a great player. So sign him because we need more great players..."
The offense has a lot more holes than the defense - by far. And with cap limitations, you have to be more measured with investments. I maintain that we could still be a good D without LW due to Graham. I trust his schemes and trust that we would still have a good DL group without LW. We would need a guy Tomlinson to step up and maybe add another quality corner.
Look, we need to score more points. So if you want Jones to have a chance to possibly be more effective we need to invest more money for him. Because right now he doesn't appear to be in the same stratosphere as a Mahomes-type who makes the offense better merely by his play.
I know you think the cap is just an imaginary concept that can always be bent and twisted to make anything work. But I think it's a bit more complicated than that...
Good point made here.
I posed this question awhile back
Would you rather have DT and a stud ER or LW and a maybe average ER?
I think letting LW walk, keeping Tomlinson (about 10M a year) and getting/drafting stud ER and still have available cap space to help out the offense is the best way forward.
What we saw in these games was the push up front, but no outside contain. You have to have that ER to set that edge and force the QB to stay inside. You can then use that extra 10M (letting LW walk) cap space to pursue the skill players needed.
If you keep LW and let Tomlinson walk, will he have the same effectiveness without Tomlinson? Who is gonna fill that hole. Simply saying you draft one in X round and hope it works out is not sound judgement.
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In comment 15118653 djm said:
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In comment 15118311 bw in dc said:
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do we back up the Brinks Truck for a guy who finally had a career year or invest money for a QB who looks like a game manager for an offense that can’t break 18ppg.?
Let LW go...
WTF does one have to do with the other?
You need to look at these situations holistically. Not in a vacuum of: "LW is just such a great player. So sign him because we need more great players..."
The offense has a lot more holes than the defense - by far. And with cap limitations, you have to be more measured with investments. I maintain that we could still be a good D without LW due to Graham. I trust his schemes and trust that we would still have a good DL group without LW. We would need a guy Tomlinson to step up and maybe add another quality corner.
Look, we need to score more points. So if you want Jones to have a chance to possibly be more effective we need to invest more money for him. Because right now he doesn't appear to be in the same stratosphere as a Mahomes-type who makes the offense better merely by his play.
I know you think the cap is just an imaginary concept that can always be bent and twisted to make anything work. But I think it's a bit more complicated than that...
Good point made here.
I posed this question awhile back
Would you rather have DT and a stud ER or LW and a maybe average ER?
I think letting LW walk, keeping Tomlinson (about 10M a year) and getting/drafting stud ER and still have available cap space to help out the offense is the best way forward.
What we saw in these games was the push up front, but no outside contain. You have to have that ER to set that edge and force the QB to stay inside. You can then use that extra 10M (letting LW walk) cap space to pursue the skill players needed.
If you keep LW and let Tomlinson walk, will he have the same effectiveness without Tomlinson? Who is gonna fill that hole. Simply saying you draft one in X round and hope it works out is not sound judgement.
So are you saying LW is going to cost you $10m more per year (or around that)?
Availability is huge.
DT also has never missed a game.....touche'!!!!!
I don’t understand this take that a team can’t pay SOME great defensive players while building an offense. You guys act like the giants are paying all these players like they were in 2010.
We can’t pay a guy like Williams and build an offense that doesn’t suck? Are you fricking kidding me??
Guys, this team is so devoid of star power and the one guy we found we’re gonna let walk because of money?? Nope! Sorry, nope!
I’m done. Go ahead and let the best front seven player on this team walk and I’ll be here to remind you all how sad and inexcusable that move was. All because we can’t sign any offensive FAs? FAs we don’t even know exist mind you.
Haven’t developed shit on defense since JPP. Cool let’s let him walk. Because of no cap space. Get lost.
Like who? Aaron Donald? Khalil Mack? Von Miller? TJ Watt?
Because those are the only bonafide, upper echelon pass rushers in the league, and none are available. Oh and only one plays the run as well as LW.
Give me a fucking break. LW is Richard Seymour part 2 right now. An absolutely game changer for the opposing team's offense.
What we need more than anything is to identify and keep our own players FIRST and FOREMOST and it seems we want both. We do have a bit of an advantage in that the cap will likely be around $170 million this year so guys may flood the market if they are unrealistic.
My 2 cent take: the Giants retain both; sign a key offensive weapon to help the offense; and, hope that the draft provides the rest.
We keep SOLDER if we believe he'll take a paycut to stay and play swing tackle. I don't think you can justify paying a swing tackle his huge salary but cutting him doesn't give you massive cap space either.
Tate is definitely gone and that helps.
Ignore the fact that sacks aren't the defining stat for a DT, Williams had sacks in half of our games this season. At least understand what the fuck you are going to rant about.
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I would keep LW and let Tomlinson walk, but in complete agreement with the point you're making to djm.
I don’t understand this take that a team can’t pay SOME great defensive players while building an offense. You guys act like the giants are paying all these players like they were in 2010.
We can’t pay a guy like Williams and build an offense that doesn’t suck? Are you fricking kidding me??
Guys, this team is so devoid of star power and the one guy we found we’re gonna let walk because of money?? Nope! Sorry, nope!
I expect them to bite the bullet and retain LW. But, the cap is finite, and I wager they're likely going to place a value on Tomlinson that's lower than he can get on the open market from another team. Sometimes hard decisions need to be made and you can't pay everyone under a hard cap just because you can. You have to look at the whole roster, all the needs, both for 2020 and beyond. This offseason is especially pivotal for DG and Jones and you can bet some decisions will be made that won't be well liked because they're a front office these past three years that has been reactionary rather than out in front of the decisions.
Do some rough cap math, don't rely on some imaginary axiom that they can be pay everyone. If DT is willing to compromise I'm all ears, but if he's looking for more than $10M per especially I'd rather put the dollars elsewhere. The roster needs a CB and WR more than it needs to pay DT open market dollars.
Instead of taking on all that risk because of some theories about roster management, how about a simple solution: you sign the guy (Tomlinson) who plays well within your system. You have the money, you keep him. Keep it simple stupid.
and in a few years you'll have DL's contract to deal with.