Lamar Jackson — can someone explain to me why so many ....

NFL scouts were asking him to tryout at the combine as a WR and/or RB.

Every other NFL team passed on him before Balt took him.

of a true Franchise QB who is a great pocket passer. Historically it's really only Cunningham and Vick that look like Lamar, maybe Newton/Kaepernick too.

Although he's an explosive player, the theory is that his style of play is easier to stop in the playoffs when great defenses will force him to beat them via the pass.

Up until yesterday, the Ravens had also struggled to come back in games partly because of their offensive style built around Lamar. By winning a playoff game and coming back from an early double digit deficit yesterday, Lamar and the Ravens answered two big questions.

not a great qb

for a different answer or you believe there is a different answer. My take on Jackson is this, even yesterday, you saw he still struggles passing the ball. He isn't the QB that Michael Vick was as Vick had far superior arm strength and accuracy. He is a better overall running QB than Vick because he can take shots in the running game.

I think he is a very good QB but isn't the passer needed if they fall behind. Yesterday they fell behind early but the Titans left them hanging around.

I think they will get some points and cause some damage to Buffalo but, if they fall behind and have to throw it is over.

what he does against the Bills. I'm not ready to crown the guy that basically can't throw the ball in a playoff game.

In comment 15118533 Dnew15 said:

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NFL scouts were asking him to tryout at the combine as a WR and/or RB. Every other NFL team passed on him before Balt took him.

Amazing. The purpose of a QB is to score/not turn the ball over. Under Jackson, the Ravens led the NFL in scoring AND time of possession in 2019, and were no. 6 in scoring and no. 5 in TOP this year (a year when so many people seemed to delight in his apparent demise lol).

In comment 15118542 nygiants16 said:

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not a great qb

I think this pretty much nails it perfectly

MVP, are you sure about this?

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QB and many can't change the way they have always viewed things. He is a dynamic playmaker who runs a very potent offense. But because he doesn't play like Peyton Manning he sucks.

The knock on him was that he couldn't win a playoff game. Then he did. Now the knock is he can't win two.

His play for some seems so erratic. For what appears like long stretches his play seems subpar with poor reads and throws with the team carrying him. Then in a instance he is making these totally amazing reads throws and runs. I think this roller coaster play particularly from the quarterback position makes some people question why so much hype. I think even Harbaugh made some statement saying that the offense doesn't always look smooth and efficient but as long as it produces he is happy.

In comment 15118536 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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of a true Franchise QB who is a great pocket passer. Historically it's really only Cunningham and Vick that look like Lamar, maybe Newton/Kaepernick too. Although he's an explosive player, the theory is that his style of play is easier to stop in the playoffs when great defenses will force him to beat them via the pass. Up until yesterday, the Ravens had also struggled to come back in games partly because of their offensive style built around Lamar. By winning a playoff game and coming back from an early double digit deficit yesterday, Lamar and the Ravens answered two big questions.

This.

I'd add that his style is often more injury prone. Additionally, speed doesn't age as well as other QB attributes. I think many see him as, he'll be great as long as he has that burst. Once he loses the burst (as we saw happen at a young age with ODB), there are questions on whether he can be a franchise QB.

Right now he is a fantastic player, and one of the most exciting players in the game.

Jackson is a great player.

LJax is a football player who scores points, and he can do it both by air and land.

But because his "land" game is so unorthodox - and it is - it's easy to see why some are dubious about LJax as a passer.

Ultimately, IMV, he's going to lose his speed edge and have to be more of a pocket passer. I think...

But maybe he bucks that and will always be a threat. That just puts a team in a tough spot for any long term deal because of the exposure LJax has when he runs...

...Praising another young QB is tantamount to saying our young QB sucks.

Likewise running down another young QB is just another way of saying our young QB is great.

In comment 15118549 ryanmkeane said:

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what he does against the Bills. I'm not ready to crown the guy that basically can't throw the ball in a playoff game.

I love ya, generally agree with you, but that is simply absurd. Last year he threw for 345 yards (and rushed for 155) v the Titans in a playoff loss. 500 yards of offense vs a Vrabel defense. And the guy who “can’t throw the ball” has thrown for 62 TDs the past 2 years.

Not trying to crown him, Mahomes wears the crown, but there is a definite disconnect between fact and fiction on this guy.

didn’t think he’d be good coming out, also figured he’d be hurt by now. It helps that he’s on Baltimore - a coach that is building the correct culture to succeed and a FO giving Harbough the players he needs to make it work.

In comment 15118557 ImissTiki said:

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Except that posters here say the same thing about Allen and Herbert.

In comment 15118566 sb from NYT Forum said:

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...Praising another young QB is tantamount to saying our young QB sucks. Likewise running down another young QB is just another way of saying our young QB is great.

This is so very true. Allen is the same A young QB having success challenges the expectation so people make excuses.

"They are winning despite Jackson"

"Allen has an all-star roster"

Neither guy can just be talented.

Don't look for something classic and steady with Lamar. Look at the raw production the offense achieves with him on the field. He pressures the defense in a lot of ways, not just the traditional one.

Harbaugh knows exactly what he is doing.

It easy to see why people doubt him. He's not a good passer but that's really beside the point with him. I light of his other skills he's a plenty good passer. The guy is just something else altogether.

but is anyone still knocking him. Sure people did leading up to the draft but is anyone still doing it?

I haven't criticized him, but you wrote two paragraphs about the guy and never once mentioned his passing skills or stats.

That's why some people aren't as high on him as others.

In comment 15118575 LBH15 said:

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Don't look for something classic and steady with Lamar. Look at the raw production the offense achieves with him on the field. He pressures the defense in a lot of ways, not just the traditional one. Harbaugh knows exactly what he is doing.

And all his running eats the clock. Ravens no. 1 and no. 5 in time of possession since he took over. It’s classic, beautiful, physical control the ball cold weather football straight out of Lombardi. With the added perk of being the no. 2 scoring offense the past 2 years.

In comment 15118568 Jim from Katonah said:

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In comment 15118549 ryanmkeane said: Quote: what he does against the Bills. I'm not ready to crown the guy that basically can't throw the ball in a playoff game. I love ya, generally agree with you, but that is simply absurd. Last year he threw for 345 yards (and rushed for 155) v the Titans in a playoff loss. 500 yards of offense vs a Vrabel defense. And the guy who “can’t throw the ball” has thrown for 62 TDs the past 2 years. Not trying to crown him, Mahomes wears the crown, but there is a definite disconnect between fact and fiction on this guy.

This year he threw for under 200 yards, no TDs and an INT. They won because of his legs and their defense. Including the playoff game, 11 of his 17 games have been under 200 yards passing. He is a fantastic player, but I think people see things like that and question whether he is a true franchise QB. There really hasn't been a player like him that has been.

My opinion is he is a top QB right now, no question. Yet I still do have a concern about how good he will be should he lose his burst and/or face some injuries that effect his running ability.

No QB like him has ever won the Super Bowl.

I have been one of the posters you have been describing. As I've said in the past, you watch him throw enough, as a technical passer, he doesn't make all the throws.

But because of the nature of him and that offense, it's incredibly hard to defend, and he still results in a high completion percentage.

One could argue that only the results matter.

My argument is that the one-dimensional nature of his game will prevent him from ever winning a championship. I'm a little surprised they were able to beat the Titans yesterday after being behind. If their defense is able to slow down the Bills like they did the Titans, they have a chance to prove me wrong.

But I still don't believe Lamar is the kind of player that will lead you to a Super Bowl victory as a QB. Regular season success? Absolutely. Every year.

his post game interview on the field. He wouldn't let the interviewer make it solely about him and things said about him. He constantly redirected it praising his teammates.. Great poise particularly right after the game with adrenaline still coursing through his body. I never really paid to much attention to him but he won me over .

Louisville was the only bigger school that wanted him as a QB. There is a funny story between his mother and Petrino and her calling him when he had him returning punts as a freshman.

I watched him often in college. Amazing talent. I worried in the NFL that the bigger, faster players would mitigate his superior athletic traits he enjoyed in college. I was wrong. I also considered a longer regular and playoff season and more chances for injury.

Calculated risk by the Ravens. They have had success and Lamar has been outstanding. I hope it continues but still think the passing ability will be exposed as you attempt to navigate the playoffs.

He is going to want a big contract this offseason (deservingly). Interested to see how the Ravens handle it.

In comment 15118580 BillT said:

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It easy to see why people doubt him. He's not a good passer but that's really beside the point with him. I light of his other skills he's a plenty good passer. The guy is just something else altogether.

He’s not a good passer in the classical sense, but he’s a great scoring passer — 31 passing TDs per game the past 2 years ... even though they tend to run in the red zone.

In comment 15118593 mushroom said:

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his post game interview on the field. He wouldn't let the interviewer make it solely about him and things said about him. He constantly redirected it praising his teammates.. Great poise particularly right after the game with adrenaline still coursing through his body. I never really paid to much attention to him but he won me over .

I noticed that too, was really nice to hear especially since I haven’t really heard many interviews of him.

Biggest thing to me is he is the Ravens - to me they are an elite coaching staff. They put him in position to succeed.

He is not a good passer at all and has struggled when they are behind, but he is an absolute nightmare to deal with

He is not big and you wonder if he ultimately gets hurt, but few can catch him right now

I think it is hard with teams looking at him out of college and seeing the potential for the injury to the most important position.

But his style of play is not sustainable. Maybe 5 years tops before he falls off a cliff.

That said he needs to play in a particular style of offense catered to his talents (that isn't just true of him). But he is not a guy that is probably going to win staying in the pocket and he is limited if the team is down in a game. His accuracy is kind of random and that is what defines traditional QB success in the NFL.

But he is a great player.

still struggles to read defenses, has to rely on his legs, and QBs like him tend to struggle in the playoffs. If he continues to win now, it will go a long way in dispelling the negative notions. Big thing is reading defenses and being able to find success with his arm if the legs are contained.

He is a dogshit passer.


He pulled his team off field yesterday without shaking hands. Lost a little respect with that move.

Thst being said he is very dybamic and a good player, not a good qb. I dont see him einning it all. Also, his record...team gets some credit there. His OL is insane good especially last season. Defense is great too

in the pregame interview yesterday, he said he's focused on winning a playoff game and then there will be new criticisms to pop up that he'll tackle afterwards.

As said above, he's not a prototypical QB but he's been really effective and successful. But judging him on the traditional way to look at QB's is really difficult

In comment 15118590 allstarjim said:

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No QB like him has ever won the Super Bowl. I have been one of the posters you have been describing. As I've said in the past, you watch him throw enough, as a technical passer, he doesn't make all the throws. But because of the nature of him and that offense, it's incredibly hard to defend, and he still results in a high completion percentage. One could argue that only the results matter. My argument is that the one-dimensional nature of his game will prevent him from ever winning a championship. I'm a little surprised they were able to beat the Titans yesterday after being behind. If their defense is able to slow down the Bills like they did the Titans, they have a chance to prove me wrong. But I still don't believe Lamar is the kind of player that will lead you to a Super Bowl victory as a QB. Regular season success? Absolutely. Every year.

Jim, you know he threw for 345 yards vs the Titans playoff loss last year, right? One dimensional? Has any Giant QB ever thrown for 345 yards in a playoff game?

so people don't know where to pigeonhole him. Many used his lack of playoff success (until yesterday) to ding him, but many young QB's lost playoff games early in their careers.

I do want to see how he does against top level defenses in the playoffs, as I still have some questions about his ability to consistently make plays from the pocket, but he is a fascinating player. He is obviously extremely fast, and very elusive, but he also has this uncanny ability to turn his body away from the point of contact. You could count the number of QB's who could make multiple 40+ yd runs in a single game on one hand - Lamar, Vick, and young RGIII. Anyone else?

who needed to show he was a big game QB. He wasn't good in last year's playoff game no matter what the stats may show. He was fine yesterday though. I picked the Ravens so I wasn't exactly down on Jackson but he played his best postseason game to date. He has to feel good today.

In comment 15118597 Jim from Katonah said:

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In comment 15118580 BillT said: Quote: It easy to see why people doubt him. He's not a good passer but that's really beside the point with him. I light of his other skills he's a plenty good passer. The guy is just something else altogether. He’s not a good passer in the classical sense, but he’s a great scoring passer — 31 passing TDs per game the past 2 years ... even though they tend to run in the red zone.

Agree completely.

In comment 15118606 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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in the pregame interview yesterday, he said he's focused on winning a playoff game and then there will be new criticisms to pop up that he'll tackle afterwards. As said above, he's not a prototypical QB but he's been really effective and successful. But judging him on the traditional way to look at QB's is really difficult

Exactly right, and I think many in and round the NFL try to bash him because they can't evaluate him in traditional ways.

For either Allen or Jackson.....but I wasn’t opposed to Saquon

They drafted him with the intention to let him play his style, without trying to force him into the pocket passer mold. In the discussions here prior to that draft, I said that I loved his potential as a player but wouldn't want the Giants to draft him, and my reasoning was that the Giants would never commit to building the offense around his abilities. He would not succeed in a traditional offense.

In comment 15118605 BleedBlue said:

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He is a dogshit passer. He pulled his team off field yesterday without shaking hands. Lost a little respect with that move. Thst being said he is very dybamic and a good player, not a good qb. I dont see him einning it all. Also, his record...team gets some credit there. His OL is insane good especially last season. Defense is great too

By what measure is he a “dogshit passer”? Career 64% completion pct and 7.5 ypa — and averages more than 2 TDs passing per game ... despite being outside the top 20 in attempts.

Maybe you don’t like the aesthetics of his motion — but he’s been a brutally effective passer where it counts — scoring TDs.

In comment 15118607 Jim from Katonah said:

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In comment 15118590 allstarjim said: Quote: No QB like him has ever won the Super Bowl. I have been one of the posters you have been describing. As I've said in the past, you watch him throw enough, as a technical passer, he doesn't make all the throws. But because of the nature of him and that offense, it's incredibly hard to defend, and he still results in a high completion percentage. One could argue that only the results matter. My argument is that the one-dimensional nature of his game will prevent him from ever winning a championship. I'm a little surprised they were able to beat the Titans yesterday after being behind. If their defense is able to slow down the Bills like they did the Titans, they have a chance to prove me wrong. But I still don't believe Lamar is the kind of player that will lead you to a Super Bowl victory as a QB. Regular season success? Absolutely. Every year. Jim, you know he threw for 345 yards vs the Titans playoff loss last year, right? One dimensional? Has any Giant QB ever thrown for 345 yards in a playoff game?

C'mon. Ben threw for 500 yards. Did he have a good game or was he a primary reason they lost? Is that really the way QB's in the postseason are measured??

I hear ya on that. But the game last year...they scored 12 points. Largely due to INT and fumbles by Jackson. Yes, he threw for 365. But they were trailing the whole game, and he had 52% completion rate that game.

He's a great player no doubt. But I mean, come on. He just played OK in a playoff game and everyone is like screaming that he finally got off the hump. Let's see what he can do in the divisional round.

many times did Lamar throw in last year's loss? If that wasn't a successful way of making him one-dimensional then you are being obtuse on the term.

In comment 15118631 ryanmkeane said:

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I hear ya on that. But the game last year...they scored 12 points. Largely due to INT and fumbles by Jackson. Yes, he threw for 365. But they were trailing the whole game, and he had 52% completion rate that game. He's a great player no doubt. But I mean, come on. He just played OK in a playoff game and everyone is like screaming that he finally got off the hump. Let's see what he can do in the divisional round.

Fair enough RK, that makes sense. Next week should be a battle!

In comment 15118632 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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many times did Lamar throw in last year's loss? If that wasn't a successful way of making him one-dimensional then you are being obtuse on the term.

Good points FMiC.

Jackson is an incredible talent. But when I watch him, i ALWAYS say to myself "a good defense is going to shut him down in the playoffs." We will see if that's correct this coming week!