... on BBI either marginalize him or don’t see him as a great player?
After an absurd Heisman-winning college career, he’s 30-7 as a Ravens starter. In his last 2 years, he’s accounted for 74 TDs vs 20 turnovers (in 30 games). He’s also been a top 10 rusher each of the past 2 years (averaging an historic 6.5 ypc) — thus, providing the Ravens an added ball control/clock killing advantage. And, after last year, he was voted the overall no. 1 player in the NFL by his peers.
So what’s the argument? That he lost his first 2 playoff games (at age 22 and 23) and his game won’t translate to playoff football? From where I sit, he’s among the handful of most impactful on winning players in the NFL.
He....didn't play that well. If the Titans showed up they win that game easily.
Yes, LJ still has things to prove, but I don't think it's necessarily because of the type of QB he is.
Baltimore deserves a ton of credit for building things in a way to take advantage of Jacksons unique skills. This same offense could not work with other QBs, even so called mobile QB's like Mahommes, Wilson, and Baker.
Excellent question. If I was a GM and had to build my team around one of those 3 long-term, Mahomes would be the clear no. 1 ... and I think Allen would be no. 2 over Jackson. But ... lots of people talk about Jackson like he is some marginal scrub, which just puzzles me.
A “running QB” who also happens to average over 2 passing TDs per game, despite limited attempts. How many guys have thrown for more TDs (much less combined TDs) the past 2 years? And, that’s even factoring in the ball control style they play in.
-A usually dominant offensive line
-Powerful running back(s) behind him
-A usually good defense
Kaepernick was held in high regard as well under Roman and with a similar supporting cast until the personnel wheels fell off in SF. Roman left and the rest is history.
Jackson is a more explosive runner than Kap and maybe a better (albeit different) passer with room for improvement. With the Ravens front office he has a better chance of keeping those key pieces around him than enable his success (power run game, defense).
I'm not convinced Jackson could carry a team in the future with less than ideal pieces like a Rogers or other good passers have in their careers. It also remains to be seen if injury derails him like it has for every other running quarterback to play the game.
But there is no doubt the Ravens have done an outstanding job molding the offense to him, and he fits that vision like a glove.
Lamar had 10 more passing TDs than Mahomes last year, in only 1 more game.
-A usually dominant offensive line
-Powerful running back(s) behind him
-A usually good defense
Kaepernick was held in high regard as well under Roman and with a similar supporting cast until the personnel wheels fell off in SF. Roman left and the rest is history.
Jackson is a more explosive runner than Kap and maybe a better (albeit different) passer with room for improvement. With the Ravens front office he has a better chance of keeping those key pieces around him than enable his success (power run game, defense).
I'm not convinced Jackson could carry a team in the future with less than ideal pieces like a Rogers or other good passers have in their careers. It also remains to be seen if injury derails him like it has for every other running quarterback to play the game.
But there is no doubt the Ravens have done an outstanding job molding the offense to him, and he fits that vision like a glove.
I just googled Cory Widmer ... some pretty solid eyebrows. He’s no Eugene Levy, but pretty damn solid.
Ravens did what everyone did to us with Barkley this year, just stuff the run and make the QB beat you. Only difference here is Tannehill has WRs and a TE I’d kill for and for some reason didn’t throw much after getting the lead. 26 attempts for RT and I bet 10 of them were in the 1st quarter.
Vrabel got undressed.
This was a big concern coming out of college and his Wonderlic score didn't help much. Neither has his inability to perform in the playoffs as a QB...
I do want to see how he does against top level defenses in the playoffs, as I still have some questions about his ability to consistently make plays from the pocket, but he is a fascinating player. He is obviously extremely fast, and very elusive, but he also has this uncanny ability to turn his body away from the point of contact. You could count the number of QB's who could make multiple 40+ yd runs in a single game on one hand - Lamar, Vick, and young RGIII. Anyone else?
Daniel Jones actually.
He is a fantastic passer. Fantastic.
My guess is ... he won't, but the Ravens have decided to ride him for what he is right now, and worry about 5 years from now 5 years from now.
Or put another, more accurate way: as a QB, he's not so great at throwing gorgeous passes, but he's very good at moving the offense from one side of the field to the other and getting it to score points.
He is a fantastic passer. Fantastic.
Jackson has 2 less passing TDs than Mahomes in 2019 and 2020 (64 vs. 66) ... in 300 less attempts. Not bad for a gadget player.
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Either passing or rushing
Lamar had 10 more passing TDs than Mahomes last year, in only 1 more game.
What about in the playoffs?
If they were around the same age, absolutely. But Mahomes has father time on his side, so he's the clear #1 to be everyone's franchise QB. Crazy that we're now saying that Allen may be top 5 if not top 3.
The guy is one of the very best players in the league. Questions about sustainability are fair, and Baltimore needs to weigh that when considering a contract...but right now he absolutely makes them a title contender.
Something else to consider is that he is doing it on an offense that is not stacked. The offensive line had injury issues this year and the skill players aren't great. Baltimore may be inclined to pay him because he's down he doesn't need a huge supporting cast.
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Either passing or rushing
Lamar had 10 more passing TDs than Mahomes last year, in only 1 more game.
And he absolutely earned the MVP award, no doubt. But when he had to win the game against the Titans with his arm, he didn't play well at all despite the yards he put up. Mahomes, on the other hand, brought his team back from losing multiple times in the playoffs to win the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl MVP. So while Jackson was absolutely on fire during the regular season, he showed his lack of passing game in his lone game last season.
He is also a really young QB still, this is only his third season. I think he’ll become a better passer over time. Cunningham seemed to improve as a passer every year and was arguably playing his best football late in his career for the Vikings.
He is a fantastic passer. Fantastic.
I'm not sure that just looking at the TD/INT ration really justifies calling him a fantastic passer. Those are out of this world numbers, but he isn't the most refined passer despite his numbers. Take away his legs, and he becomes a mediocre QB.
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In comment 15118711 Greg from LI said:
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Either passing or rushing
Lamar had 10 more passing TDs than Mahomes last year, in only 1 more game.
What about in the playoffs?
Mahomes has been a dominant all-timer and Jackson average ... at best. If Lamar shits the bed v the Bills, I owe you and your alter ego Patterson Plank, drinks. (That’s a joke of course!)
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In comment 15118715 Jim from Katonah said:
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In comment 15118711 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Either passing or rushing
Lamar had 10 more passing TDs than Mahomes last year, in only 1 more game.
What about in the playoffs?
Mahomes has been a dominant all-timer and Jackson average ... at best. If Lamar shits the bed v the Bills, I owe you and your alter ego Patterson Plank, drinks. (That’s a joke of course!)
LOL deal!
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Something like 46/0 in the red zone.
He is a fantastic passer. Fantastic.
I'm not sure that just looking at the TD/INT ration really justifies calling him a fantastic passer. Those are out of this world numbers, but he isn't the most refined passer despite his numbers. Take away his legs, and he becomes a mediocre QB.
Isn't that like saying "Take away Peyton Manning's brain and he's a mediocre qb"?
Jackson's running ability and how it opens up the passing game is part of the package. He puts defenses in a bind.
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In comment 15118711 Greg from LI said:
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Either passing or rushing
Lamar had 10 more passing TDs than Mahomes last year, in only 1 more game.
And he absolutely earned the MVP award, no doubt. But when he had to win the game against the Titans with his arm, he didn't play well at all despite the yards he put up. Mahomes, on the other hand, brought his team back from losing multiple times in the playoffs to win the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl MVP. So while Jackson was absolutely on fire during the regular season, he showed his lack of passing game in his lone game last season.
Fair enough. This is only his 3rd season, and playoff questions definitely remain.
That game he won on Sunday, games aren't always going to just fall that way. A QB ultimately is going to have to pass his way to victory and I'm not sure he's there yet.
I'll also say I don't think the Ravens are necessarily built that way - more of a run oriented team (which includes Jax) with TEs who create mismatches.
I just wish he would have stuck around and said congrats to the Titans instead of waving off his team with time still ont the clock...looked childish.
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Something like 46/0 in the red zone.
He is a fantastic passer. Fantastic.
I'm not sure that just looking at the TD/INT ration really justifies calling him a fantastic passer. Those are out of this world numbers, but he isn't the most refined passer despite his numbers. Take away his legs, and he becomes a mediocre QB.
He's not a fantastic passer.....stop.
He's a great quarterback.
Boy was I wrong. Wish he were a Giant now.
If you want your QB to take seven step drops and throw the ball all over the field, Jackson isn't your guy. If you want a dynamic offense that wins games by scoring points and eating clock, there are few better.
He didn't get that league MVP out of a cracker jacks box.
And he has the same playoff record as Eli Manning had after 3 playoff games.
Watching the Ravens vs. Titans game yesterday, I couldn't help but think that if AJ Brown was on the Ravens then their offense would be on another level. That kind of legit #1 with size and strength is missing from the Ravens offense, and it has nothing to do with Lamar Jackson. They've resorted to praying that an over the hill Dez Bryant can fill that role.
Do you really think he is incapable of modifying his game to some degree or that Harbaugh and Raven coaches cannot employ other offensive strategies to adapt with success? They have some nice weapons and variety on that offense that can pick up and help a great deal. Learning to win in the playoffs for QBs isn't some new phenomenon that just started with Jackson nor one that that I would imagine a MVP-type player of his caliber incapable of overcoming.
If you want your QB to take seven step drops and throw the ball all over the field, Jackson isn't your guy. If you want a dynamic offense that wins games by scoring points and eating clock, there are few better.
He didn't get that league MVP out of a cracker jacks box.
And he has the same playoff record as Eli Manning had after 3 playoff games.
Yes, I said great quarterback but I should say he's a really terrific QB (great is reserved, sorry).
And by QB, that doesn't mean passing...it means leading the offense. Which he does extremely well, there's no denying it.
I think his passing gets better over time, esp when that offense morphs. I doubt it will stay exactly the same over the next 5 years or so.
I'd expect WR to be upgraded in some way eventually, esp considering the Ravens probably aren't winning a SB.
Boy was I wrong. Wish he were a Giant now.
#1
Between him and Murray - I officially resign as a QB college scout.
And we all know how difficult it is to move up and grab another top QB each draft day.
I thought they'd make the same mistake yesterday when they went down 10-0. They didn't - Jackson ran 16 times, everyone else 19. They passed 24 times.
If they hold their water and stick to their gameplan regardless of what the scoreboard says, they're going to be a tough out for anyone.
And we all know how difficult it is to move up and grab another top QB each draft day.
The running QB is what college is producing. Who are the really good pocket passers in the NFL under age 30?
Something discussed here before so not a new concept, but it’s starting to look like that’s going to happen sooner rather than later.