It's a given - Edge Rusher, desperately needed ...

I’m not impressed by any of the teams left. If it wasn’t for the fucking Eagles or butterfingers Engram we would have beat Tampa this weekend and be on our way to the divisional round.

I’ll take Golladay/Robinson in FA and Smith/Waddle in round 1 and we are a 10-11 win team next year

It has to be BPA, especially given the multiple needs this team still has. Don't reach for an Edge Rusher or WR if clearly the BPA is at another position, particularly one of need.

If LB Parsons or OLT Sewell would somehow be still there at #11 and especially if Chase, Waddle and D Smith are gone, don't you run up to the podium to take Parson or Sewell if one of them is still there at 11?

Do you mean a premier pass rusher?

I don't think we desperately need a premier guy. We just need players -plural - who Graham can fit into his system that have the pass rush ability. That's the Belichick/New England model - manufacture a pass rush by having a variety of players who have some of that ability.

Versus trying to find a Khalil Mack...

Out of the teams that made it ...

We beat Seattle, Washington (twice), Tampa and came within a whisker of beating the Rams & Bears

It's a #1 WR that is now that need. We were an ok pass rushing team this year. On the other hand we had one of the worst receiving corps in the league. That's where the need is most desperate. I think we'll have a shot a Waddle. I'd take him and not look back.

what Graham and Judge want to do. Best CB available at #11 is fine by me.

Would love a consistent E/R, but feel CB is more needed.

They need at least two pass receivers whether it s a TE and WR or two WRs. Put Shepard in the slot where he is dependable and reliable.

Premiere, 1st tier edge.

We're going to lose Tomlinson; that's gonna hurt, but we'll have Lawrence & Williams. Don't want to lose Fackrell.

Free agent signing (and it may come to this if the Giants sign Williams and Tomlinson) and only had one first round draft pick #11, do you try to get the WR in free agency and Edge rusher in the draft or vice versa?

Seems likely that few edge rushers will be available in free agency or the draft. Seems like a lot of WR talent early in the draft.

Smith and Jones as a first and second round would be a slam dunk

In comment 15119183 Ivan15 said:

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Free agent signing (and it may come to this if the Giants sign Williams and Tomlinson) and only had one first round draft pick #11, do you try to get the WR in free agency and Edge rusher in the draft or vice versa? Seems likely that few edge rushers will be available in free agency or the draft. Seems like a lot of WR talent early in the draft.

Do not pay $$$ for WRs that will be available via draft. I feel another very good CB is what they need and more readily available in the #11 area of the draft. Not sure of the quality of the ERs at 11. It would be hard to pass on D Smith.

at 11 though you might be able to trade down and still get Weaver I think he'll be the best DE of the lot the others dont have enough tape for me .... He cant afford to miss on a boom bust player.

I think the WR FA market may weaker than initially expected.

Graham ran way more zone than he likes due to the fact we did not have anyone who stood up well in man after Bradberry. If they like what they saw from Holmes in the slot this year and get a plug and play CB like Surtain In the first round, that may make the defense much more “multiple” than any other single pick could.

I do not see them trading up...we need depth on this roster and you do not get it by trading draft picks

but hopefully not one where they act desperately.

If the sun, moon and stars align and an impactful ER is available for the team (either in FA or Draft) then they should be interested.

Couple areas that the team needs to reconfigure / rethink what they are doing if expect to become a playoff team. And I think the D-Line is one of those areas where they need to find the right ER to mix in with the strong DT rotation and be able to get pressures/sacks with 4 guys.

This is the perfect year to trade down IMO

I agree, would love to see what Graham would do with a better man to man #2 corner. My question is how good does he have to be to see a significant improvement overall?

Does it need to be an expensive lock down vet or a#1 draft pick? Would a $5-10 mil FA work, or a 2nd or 3rd rounder? I’m not advocating one way or the other cause I don’t know how hard is to find players with the necessary skills nor am I a college scout.

And the same could be true for filling the other holes at WR, Edge, TE and MILB.

Regardless of what they do in FA, they should be able to address their top 3 needs on days 1 and 2.

these premium EDGE players are. I don't follow college or even other NFL teams that closely....but even the best, established EDGE rushers seem to flame out after a couple of peak years. And sometimes rookie EDGE rushers seem good and then never progress much further. I know Allen got hurt this year but only had 2.5 sacks and 7 tackles in 8 games. Was he hurt the whole year?

Looking over EDGE rushers picked in first round in the past 5 years, there are some really good players, particularly at the top of the draft. But there are a lot of busts. I guess every position has a bust rate, but there seem to be fewer and fewer EDGE players who dominate year after year. Perhaps we are wishing for something that doesn't exist as much as we think.

In comment 15119216 aGiantGuy said:

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This is the perfect year to trade down IMO

Why is that? We have no idea how the draft will shake out. 5 QBs can go before we pick leaving a premium player at 11 that should have gone earlier

In comment 15119177 section125 said:

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what Graham and Judge want to do. Best CB available at #11 is fine by me. Would love a consistent E/R, but feel CB is more needed. They need at least two pass receivers whether it s a TE and WR or two WRs. Put Shepard in the slot where he is dependable and reliable.

+1. We are a cb away from having a top D.

They need to generate consistent pressure, especially off the edge. They have gotten very little production outside the 3 DL. That's where everything starts, up front. That was the Giants calling card for years. They have to get back to that. Obviously, they can't reach or give up premium picks, but the need for a serious pass rush on the outside has to be a pinned to the top of their to-do list.

In comment 15119336 TommyWiseau said:

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In comment 15119216 aGiantGuy said: Quote: This is the perfect year to trade down IMO Why is that? We have no idea how the draft will shake out. 5 QBs can go before we pick leaving a premium player at 11 that should have gone earlier

At most 3 QBs will be draft before our pick at 11. I would think 2 is the better guess but 5 is never going to happen

In comment 15119336 TommyWiseau said:

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In comment 15119216 aGiantGuy said: Quote: This is the perfect year to trade down IMO Why is that? We have no idea how the draft will shake out. 5 QBs can go before we pick leaving a premium player at 11 that should have gone earlier

I like a lot of guys who are projected to go later in round 1 or even drop to round 2. Guys like Rashod Bateman, Nico Collins, Zaven Collins, Jaycee Horn, Jeremiah Owusu, are all greats fits in our scheme and immediately elevate our roster. I don’t think we need that overly dominant player to turn the corner, for one, I believe that there are still numerous holes on the roster. Tae Crowder, Yiadom, Fackrell, Shep, Tate, RT, RG, TE can all be upgraded. Holes at those positions essentially allowed teams to avoid or game plan against the talent we already have on the roster like LW, Bradberry, Martinez, and saquon.

Instead of getting that overly talented player that transcends all schemes, we can target some players that do specific things very well and are scheme fits. An example would be the Steelers, they got at least 12 players on their roster who can be pro bowlers in any given year and only 2 of them, Devin Bush and Joe Haden, were drafted in the top 10. We already have three players who were perceived to have top 10 talent in LW, Saquon, and Andrew Thomas.

If I can turn a 1st into a late 1st, early 2nd, and early third, and I can possibly walk away with Jaycee Horn, Zaven Collins, and Nico Collins, I’m taking that over Jaylen Waddle or Kyle Pitts all day everyday. Granted, a lot of these guys will move into the top 15 discussion after the combine, so it’s still very much up in the air.

If Chase and Smith are gone, I’m just not all that interested in the value we receive from the talent that is left. Thanks for asking though, I enjoy debating draft strategies so feel free to disagree.

Ill try to see who I can sign in FA first.. If we can sign a big target, then we draft a #1 Corner.. Cutting jack rabbit hurt us this year.. but Surtain and an edge would make this defense special..

In Judge I trust

of Corey Davis in FA (pass on Robinson and Golloday at their price) and then going after edge or CB in round 1. From there let the board come to you.

You might want to start over.

under this system. Rather than sign speed rushers to penetrate the pocket, the goal is to collapse the pocket with strong oversized lineman.

Sacks can be generated either from a collapsed pocket. Or, if a QB escapes in either direction, there is an LB or other spy to make the sack. This can be done with less expensive players such as the late-round rookie LBs.

and produce much more pressure, if not finishing with sacks.

It's also clear if you study the Patriots model, with I think the Rams and Titans have also emulated with success, they build up the middle and somewhat reduce the need to find the rare impact Edge talent.

It doesn't mean they'd pass up on a premier talent, but rather it's not on the desperate need list.

and I think Judge is too. Rams are a bit different because they're built around premier talents including Donald and Rasmey, but the blueprint is there. Retain LW, find another quality CB, ILB, make a decision on Tomlinson, and get better Edge talent.

In comment 15119230 HopePhil and Optimistic said:

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I agree, would love to see what Graham would do with a better man to man #2 corner. My question is how good does he have to be to see a significant improvement overall? Does it need to be an expensive lock down vet or a#1 draft pick? Would a $5-10 mil FA work, or a 2nd or 3rd rounder? I’m not advocating one way or the other cause I don’t know how hard is to find players with the necessary skills nor am I a college scout. And the same could be true for filling the other holes at WR, Edge, TE and MILB. Regardless of what they do in FA, they should be able to address their top 3 needs on days 1 and 2.

CB is a premium position, so better to acquire in the draft than FA if possible. There is more risk, but this is why you pay all those scouts.

I like prioritizing premium positions in the draft - CB, OT, QB, EDGE (possibly WR). It is typically cheaper to fill in the other positions by mid-tier FA and take chances on emerging/2nd chance guys you can coach up.

I would agree; if we can solve some of our biggest problems via FA, the draft is just gravy. Problem with that is - what's the cap space ?

About a CB, I'd love to get a top tier guy to compliment Bradberry; but it doesn't matter if you have all-world coverage if your giving 5-6+ seconds to throw the ball.

In comment 15119216 aGiantGuy said:

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This is the perfect year to trade down IMO

We hear this every year

In comment 15119216 aGiantGuy said:

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This is the perfect year to trade down IMO

Yep. It would actually play to the front office’s strengths. I think they mostly make logical, well scouted picks deeper in the draft. But I doubt they will, unfortunately.

In comment 15120645 Manny in CA said:

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I would agree; if we can solve some of our biggest problems via FA, the draft is just gravy. Problem with that is - what's the cap space ? About a CB, I'd love to get a top tier guy to compliment Bradberry; but it doesn't matter if you have all-world coverage if your giving 5-6+ seconds to throw the ball.

5-6+ seconds to throw?? Where is that bullshit figure coming from??

We could use an edge rusher, but why don't you look at the D as a whole. We had 40 sacks this season. We were in the top half of the league in sacks and pressures. It isn't like the Bengals or Jags who had less than half the number of sacks we did.

Not only that, we were consistent. We only had two games - Balt and Arizona - where we didn't have at least two sacks.

We are desperate for playmakers.

Sacks and pressure can be created. I like the young OLBs we have and I’d bring Fackrell back as a pass rush specialist. Carter, Coughlin, Xman, and Brown are solid versatile, young players. I’d take a pass rusher somewhere, but not 11. 11 has to be streamlined to playmaker unless they find a WR1 prior to draft day.

"desperate" need. We also need a 2nd CB, and getting a good one can offset the ER need somewhat. Our pressure numbers were pretty good this year, IIRC we were 8th in QB pressures and 4th in QB hits.

The need for talent in the other side of the ball is closer to desperate. I'm not saying we "need" to address it at #11, but we definitely need to get some WR's in this draft.

I do believe that edge is, along with a top tier WR a serious priority.

The interior rush is one of the best, we need a top tier edge man who can catch the new crop of mobile QBs (and more plentiful) who don't stay in the pocket.

Read the following article ....

https://gmenhq.com/2020/12/21/ny-giants-pass-rush-serious-problem/

In comment 15121886 Manny in CA said:

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I do believe that edge is, along with a top tier WR a serious priority. The interior rush is one of the best, we need a top tier edge man who can catch the new crop of mobile QBs (and more plentiful) who don't stay in the pocket. Read the following article .... https://gmenhq.com/2020/12/21/ny-giants-pass-rush-serious-problem/

Edge rushers don't "catch" mobile QB's!!

Defense try to contain mobile runners in the pocket. When they break contain, the LB's and DB's need to step up.

Giants have multiple needs:
CB
ER
Multiple WR's
TE
OL

I have felt for at least the last month that CB is the biggest need. Judge and Graham wanted to run a man defense from day one but realized after several games that would not work so they went to the zone defense. Getting a corner in round one will change Graham's defensive scheme.Plus a very good secondary will improve our pass rush.
I have been touting for weeks draft Surtain in round 1 then get your WR's in round 2 and 3: Marshall and Williams.
But don't be fooled we have multiple needs.

In comment 15121909 Rick in Dallas said:

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Giants have multiple needs: CB ER Multiple WR's TE OL I have felt for at least the last month that CB is the biggest need. Judge and Graham wanted to run a man defense from day one but realized after several games that would not work so they went to the zone defense. Getting a corner in round one will change Graham's defensive scheme.Plus a very good secondary will improve our pass rush. I have been touting for weeks draft Surtain in round 1 then get your WR's in round 2 and 3: Marshall and Williams. But don't be fooled we have multiple needs.

Rick, most dont think Surtain will make it past Dallas. I would love Surtain, but what if hes not there?

In comment 15121907 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 15121886 Manny in CA said: Quote: I do believe that edge is, along with a top tier WR a serious priority. The interior rush is one of the best, we need a top tier edge man who can catch the new crop of mobile QBs (and more plentiful) who don't stay in the pocket. Read the following article .... https://gmenhq.com/2020/12/21/ny-giants-pass-rush-serious-problem/ Edge rushers don't "catch" mobile QB's!! Defense try to contain mobile runners in the pocket. When they break contain, the LB's and DB's need to step up.

And when the defense kept the quarterback in the pocket, they got picked apart. Just look at the Arizona and the Cleveland games.

In comment 15122606 Angel Eyes said:

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In comment 15121907 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: In comment 15121886 Manny in CA said: Quote: I do believe that edge is, along with a top tier WR a serious priority. The interior rush is one of the best, we need a top tier edge man who can catch the new crop of mobile QBs (and more plentiful) who don't stay in the pocket. Read the following article .... https://gmenhq.com/2020/12/21/ny-giants-pass-rush-serious-problem/ Edge rushers don't "catch" mobile QB's!! Defense try to contain mobile runners in the pocket. When they break contain, the LB's and DB's need to step up. And when the defense kept the quarterback in the pocket and played contain, they got picked apart. Just look at the Arizona and the Cleveland games.

By just moving off to the corner and picking us apart. We just didn't have anybody strong enough to rip through the blocking and catch him before he got comfortable.

LT was not a "hand-in-the-ground"' type, but from his position
was the best in the history of the game. True, you only see one in a generation; but we need one-of-those types.