Over the next few months we're going to see a lot of press on the different machinations of cap space the Giants can create, especially over the all important 2-year period of 2021/2022 (2 years because many contracts heavily impact the 1st 2 years with guaranteed money at signing).
And it's true. If the Giants cut Solder (24M), Tate (14.5M), Zeitler (12.5M), Toilolo (2.9M), Core (2M) - they will free up $56M dollars, and be comfortably under the cap both years.
The rub is the Giants need to replace and/or upgrade those positions. The Giants need better guard play, better TE play, a swing tackle, better WRs and special teams depth.
And some of that needs to come from signing better veteran players. Remarkably, I think if the Giants make those moves, the only veteran players on the offensive roster acquired by Dave Gettleman will be Pettis, Penny, and Kaden Smith.
Look at what signing 3.5 good vets did to the defense this year. The Giants add Bradberry, Martinez, Ryan, and a full 16 games from Williams, and they go from bad to good in one season.
I understand Barkley will be back, Jones will progress, Gates will progress, etc. But the Giants offense has a big mountain to climb.
Below are some assorted statistics that show the increase the Giants would need to make YOY to hit league average (16th in the NFL this year) -- just to give context to how bad the offense was. Surprisingly, the run game was pretty OK.
Total Offense
- Total Points + 116
- Points Per Game + 7.2
- Yards + 1119
- Yards Per Game + 69.9
- Yards Per Play + .7
Passing Offense
- First Downs + 55
- Completions + 52
- Passing TDs + 15
- Passing TDs/G + .9
- Passing Yards +915
- Passing Yards Per Game +57
- Pass ing First Downs + 28
Pass Protection
- Pressure Percentage -7.9%
- Sacks -14
Rush Offense
- Rush Yards + 31
- Rush Yards Per Game +1.9
- Rush TDs +3
- Rush TDs Perr Game + .18
Core's loss was a big part of the reason that the GIANTS kick cover units went south this year. His replacement on kick cover units, Board, was awful, and Board is one of the guys who needs to be replaced with somebody better, and the sooner the better.
we got 6 picks I think 4 will be on offense.
my dream FA would be resigning both DTs and Curtis Samuel at WR. then use the rest on smaller contracts like resigning fackrell.
And so will upgrades along the line - starters and depth.
If Jones is really a game manager/game manager-plus than he's going to require a lot of infrastructure improvements.
Which is why I'm skeptical to re-signing LW. The offense needs too much - unfortunately...
I’m referencing the 2-year savings. Cutting Solder would save:
2021: 9.9M salary, 100K workout bonus
2022: 9.9M salary, 100K workout bonus, 4M roster bonus
For a total of 24M in savings. They would incur dead money of 6.5M in 2021, and 4M in 2022 if he were designated a post-June 1st cut, which they almost assuredly will do.
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not $24 mill.
I’m referencing the 2-year savings. Cutting Solder would save:
2021: 9.9M salary, 100K workout bonus
2022: 9.9M salary, 100K workout bonus, 4M roster bonus
For a total of 24M in savings. They would incur dead money of 6.5M in 2021, and 4M in 2022 if he were designated a post-June 1st cut, which they almost assuredly will do.
If the Giants are going to invest that money in the offense, I’d like that. My only hang up with Williams is giving him the 19M next year, and risk him walking.
Put it this way, if the Giants invested in a Joe Thuney, bedrock offensive lineman instead of Williams, I’d sign up for that.
most teams do this anyways. BPA with the deciding factor being need.
If you look at the numbers I pulled, it’s really glaring how much better the team would need to be on offensive just to be average.
7 points, 70 yards, nearly a full more yard per play, just to match the 16th ranked in those categories. They need a windfall, not patches.
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They don't build so much as fill holes.
If you look at the numbers I pulled, it’s really glaring how much better the team would need to be on offensive just to be average.
7 points, 70 yards, nearly a full more yard per play, just to match the 16th ranked in those categories. They need a windfall, not patches.
That is one drive and the resulting TD. Not an outrageous improvement really.
I would like them to approach personnel acquisition that way too. Instead of saying "We need to add offensive weapons, let's use resources there" I'd rather they ask "Let's add the best players possible with the resources we have and adapt our plans to the players we acquire". That especially applies to the draft.
If I'm running the Giants I'm thinking about it in three steps:
Step 1 is approach FA with a quantity over quality approach. I'm not targeting Thuney (though I like him) or any of the big name WRs. Sit tight, see what shakes out after the first couple waves of free agency, and see where value can be had at all positions.
Step two is trade anyone on the fringe for whatever draft capital you can get. Can't find better than a 5th for Engram? Fine, take it. Just add draft picks in quantity at every possible opportunity.
Step three is to simply draft the highest rated players on your board with every pick. Trade down when you can.
No position on this team is too deep. Not one.
If you have good coaching and good scouting, that model applied over a few years will get you a sustained pipeline of talent, draft assets, and cap space that will keep you competitive in the near term goals and fluid enough to manage the long term vision.
This organization needs a fucking plan.
Scoring an additional touchdown across every game is a huge difference.
QB Jacoby Brissett, 28 - $15M AAV (Will be much lower in 2021; alternate option is Tyrod Taylor, 32 at $5M)
WR John Ross, 26 - $4.2M
RB Carlos Hyde, 30 - $2.75M
RT Daryl Williams, 29 - $2.25M
CB PJ Williams, 28 - $2M
TE Gerald Everett, 27 - $1.5M
G Michael Schofield, 30 - $1.5M
CB Nickell Robey-Coleman, 29 - $1.35M
G Kelechi Osemele, 32 - $1.2M
LB Barkevious Mingo, 30 - $1.2M (great special teamer)
G DJ Fluker, 30 - $1.1M
DE Margus Hunt, 34 - $1M
WR Nelson Agholor, 28 - $1M
You get the point. Look on Spotrac and there are many, many more.
FA is where you go to fill holes cheaply until you find a draft pick to fill the spot long term. Davonte Smith doesn't fall to us? Fine...sign Nelson Agholor for cheap. He just finished with 48-896-8 and a ridiculous 18.7 YPR.
That's the way to approach free agency. Let someone else pay A money for B and C players.
QB Jacoby Brissett, 28 - $15M AAV (Will be much lower in 2021; alternate option is Tyrod Taylor, 32 at $5M)
WR John Ross, 26 - $4.2M
RB Carlos Hyde, 30 - $2.75M
RT Daryl Williams, 29 - $2.25M
CB PJ Williams, 28 - $2M
TE Gerald Everett, 27 - $1.5M
G Michael Schofield, 30 - $1.5M
CB Nickell Robey-Coleman, 29 - $1.35M
G Kelechi Osemele, 32 - $1.2M
LB Barkevious Mingo, 30 - $1.2M (great special teamer)
G DJ Fluker, 30 - $1.1M
DE Margus Hunt, 34 - $1M
WR Nelson Agholor, 28 - $1M
You get the point. Look on Spotrac and there are many, many more.
FA is where you go to fill holes cheaply until you find a draft pick to fill the spot long term. Davonte Smith doesn't fall to us? Fine...sign Nelson Agholor for cheap. He just finished with 48-896-8 and a ridiculous 18.7 YPR.
That's the way to approach free agency. Let someone else pay A money for B and C players.
I can echo your statement, but I like going after Samuel who is still very young, improving every year and wont cost an arm and a leg.
Agholor was a drops machine in Philly who didnt bring him back and they were desperate for WRs this past year. I think Samuels can be like Emmanuel Sanders long term and his career is trending that way.
While Andrew Thomas was clearly a "fill the hole" type pick, both of DG's prior first round selections - Jones and Barkley - clearly were more attempts to build the team than fill holes. I mean Josh Allen the ER was obviously a better "hole filler" than Jones, and who TF grabs an RB to "fill a hole?
And Dexter Lawrence, when he already had Tomlinson and BJ Hill on the roster sure as hell wasn't a "hole filler" as a pick.
Your invention of agendas for the Giants FO, and particularly DG has blinded you. You might not like how or who DG has drafted, but he isn't simply filling holes.
If he grabs a CB at 11 this year or a WR, you'll call it filling holes. But what if that CB or WR is on the same tier (or higher) than any other position player on the Giants' board?
And that's possible, even likely.
Core's loss was a big part of the reason that the GIANTS kick cover units went south this year. His replacement on kick cover units, Board, was awful, and Board is one of the guys who needs to be replaced with somebody better, and the sooner the better.
You don’t pay special team players that much salary. That’s a luxury we can’t afford right now with all the holes on this roster.
I would like them to approach personnel acquisition that way too. Instead of saying "We need to add offensive weapons, let's use resources there" I'd rather they ask "Let's add the best players possible with the resources we have and adapt our plans to the players we acquire". That especially applies to the draft.
If I'm running the Giants I'm thinking about it in three steps:
Step 1 is approach FA with a quantity over quality approach. I'm not targeting Thuney (though I like him) or any of the big name WRs. Sit tight, see what shakes out after the first couple waves of free agency, and see where value can be had at all positions.
Step two is trade anyone on the fringe for whatever draft capital you can get. Can't find better than a 5th for Engram? Fine, take it. Just add draft picks in quantity at every possible opportunity.
Step three is to simply draft the highest rated players on your board with every pick. Trade down when you can.
No position on this team is too deep. Not one.
If you have good coaching and good scouting, that model applied over a few years will get you a sustained pipeline of talent, draft assets, and cap space that will keep you competitive in the near term goals and fluid enough to manage the long term vision.
This organization needs a fucking plan.
I think you may have picked the exact sentiment and quote that reveals how Judge intends to build the Giants. Goes hand in hand with "don't tell me what they can't do, tell me what they can."
It is a Patriot move to avoid the higher priced people and sign next level and then coach them up. It is picking Thomas, Peart, Lemieux, Murphy for OL and all the 6th and 7th round LBs and possibly finding 3 to 5 starters out of that.
I agree with trying to get any draft picks they can for Engram or whomever does not fit what they are doing.
I am certain that Judge has a plan. I am also not certain that a strict BPA works. Players are likely in tiers. While the 1st round pick certainly should be BPA, if two players are available and the slightly lower rated player will vastly improve a position, while the slightly better player is only a marginal upgrade over the existing player - which one should be drafted?
But I think in this case I agree with your POV.
Having guys that don't block well, drop passes, deflect balls to the opposition and are not even red zone targets seems...hmm, what's the word, oh yeah...bad.
Let's trade in that pro bowler, overpaid Toilolo and practice squad candidate Smith for a couple of non-dynamic guys second tier type TEs. But ones with a bit of height that can actually be targets in the end zone and help out a young QB.
Throw in a more dynamic WR or two from the Draft and then you got something that can put up 20+ points a game.
I think Thuney will shake free as discussed in detail on this thread.
Thuney - ( New Window )
Just how exactly do you know that they don't have one?
Just how exactly do you know that they don't have one?
Honestly, based on recent results it might actually give you more confidence in the Front Office's capabilities if they fessed up and said they never really had a plan.
I was on board with going mid-range FA at someone like Corey Davis or Curtis Samuel, but I think getting that #1 WR makes everything fall into place a little better. While I love the glimpses we saw from Davis, he's just that, flashes to date. He may end up with the most palatable contract, but we need bankable production. Samuel's age, and increasing production are both great to see, I feel he's more of a great slot WR, than boundary guy that defenses have to account for. As long as Shep is on the team, I feel we are set with a strong slot WR.
Just how exactly do you know that they don't have one?
I hope they don't have one, because of they consider what they've been doing these past few years a plan we're in bigger trouble than I thought.
I would like them to approach personnel acquisition that way too. Instead of saying "We need to add offensive weapons, let's use resources there" I'd rather they ask "Let's add the best players possible with the resources we have and adapt our plans to the players we acquire". That especially applies to the draft.
If I'm running the Giants I'm thinking about it in three steps:
Step 1 is approach FA with a quantity over quality approach. I'm not targeting Thuney (though I like him) or any of the big name WRs. Sit tight, see what shakes out after the first couple waves of free agency, and see where value can be had at all positions.
Step two is trade anyone on the fringe for whatever draft capital you can get. Can't find better than a 5th for Engram? Fine, take it. Just add draft picks in quantity at every possible opportunity.
Step three is to simply draft the highest rated players on your board with every pick. Trade down when you can.
No position on this team is too deep. Not one.
If you have good coaching and good scouting, that model applied over a few years will get you a sustained pipeline of talent, draft assets, and cap space that will keep you competitive in the near term goals and fluid enough to manage the long term vision.
This organization needs a fucking plan.
Well said. Let’s not repeat the mistakes of 2016, or even the FA mistakes of 2018. The 2020 draft seemed to yield some nice players in the later rounds, so accumulating as many of those picks as possible is smart.
Add some pieces in FA, but don’t spend like crazy. Maintain cap flexibility going forward.
Biggest issue is wr and they need a very good blocking TE, who can catch when needed
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Which is why I'm skeptical to re-signing LW. The offense needs too much - unfortunately...
If the Giants are going to invest that money in the offense, I’d like that. My only hang up with Williams is giving him the 19M next year, and risk him walking.
Put it this way, if the Giants invested in a Joe Thuney, bedrock offensive lineman instead of Williams, I’d sign up for that.
At the end of the day, I trust Graham to still make the defense work without LW than I trust Jones to be impactful without much, much more talent.
Core's loss was a big part of the reason that the GIANTS kick cover units went south this year. His replacement on kick cover units, Board, was awful, and Board is one of the guys who needs to be replaced with somebody better, and the sooner the better.
There are a lot better ways to come up w 2 million. It's pennies even w the cap shrinking