Giants' Insider beat reporter Chris Bisignano. On one of their last 2 podcasts he said that he heard from "inside the building" that Beal did some things that made him persona non grata to the current coaching staff even before Beal opted out of the 2020 season.
He did not state anything more specifically than that, basically just saying he didn't expect Beal to be competing for the #2 outside CB starting role opposite James Bradberry in 2021, because of those (unspecified) actions prior to opting out.
IIRC his exact words were: "I don't expect Beal back for the 2021 season with the Giants."
Thought I'd pass that along. If DG is "hole filling" in this upcoming draft that puts the CB position on a higher tier of need, I imagine. Unless DG unearths another Bradberry in free agency.
Baker had some attitude issues in college. would have been interesting to see how he turned out if drafted under this coaching staff
The other one was Beal - addition by subtraction
unless the OP means some other method of separation.
Without trying to make this a blame game this is exactly the thing you are trying to look before BEFORE you draft a guy.
Either they got conned or they didn't ask the right questions in interviews because this really, really shouldn't happen.
It would explain the new coaching staff potentially souring on him quickly.
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both players were highly touted, their character concerns are not DG's fault.
stupid post
Highly regarded by whom? DG? Baker was the 1st CB drafted in 2019 all the way down at pick #30 clearly the NFL wasn’t overly high on that CB class
Beal was a supplemental draft pick IIrc a real head scratcher @ the time...
Also if you believe Deandre Baker just woke up one day and decided to involve himself in criminal activity or be at a place where criminal activity is possible I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale
2 pitiful draft picks and for New York to improve they have to get better in selecting players and can’t have these complete failure like Beal and Baker
he was drafted in 2018 and then spent the whole season on IR
2019 - went on IR on Sept 1st - out for the season.
Then last year opts out for Covid reasons in 2020
He has been with the team for 3 seasons and never played a down. I do not know why his opting out bothers me. I guess I expected him to be excited to play after missing all of the first 2 seasons ... and then he takes another year off voluntarily? Hmmm ..
You can't be that stupid or you'd forget to breathe.
he was drafted in 2018 and then spent the whole season on IR
2019 - went on IR on Sept 1st - out for the season.
Then last year opts out for Covid reasons in 2020
He has been with the team for 3 seasons and never played a down. I do not know why his opting out bothers me. I guess I expected him to be excited to play after missing all of the first 2 seasons ... and then he takes another year off voluntarily? Hmmm ..
What?
Was that necessary? You must be a miserable grumpy old man at least that’s the way you come across on this message board
He looks the part, but he’s squarely approaching or is a lost cause.
There’s no risk in bringing him to camp next year. But it’d be crazy to expect anything from him.
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its insane, does anyone follow him on social media? has he been in a crypt the entire time?
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both players were highly touted, their character concerns are not DG's fault.
stupid post
Sorry, but yes they are. It is a GM’s job to look into player backgrounds. Baker had numerous red flags at GA, bad attitude, poor practice habits - that is not a guy you trade extra picks for.
And Beal with his injury history was a big risk, a risk that good teams can afford to make.
Can you provide the proof that people on here have said Gettleman can do no wrong?
Quit bloviating.
You can read that 10x and still not know what he was trying to say.
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“We knew about the shoulder; there was no mystery there,” Gettleman told reporters earlier this week. “We knew about the shoulder. It’s like drafting anybody that’s got an injury; we knew about the shoulder. We had MRIs that Arizona had taken. He comes here, reinjures it, does what he does, and you know, it is what it is. Best-case scenario, he’s on the field and we’re not talking about this. Really and truly, we felt we’re getting next year’s third-round pick this year. So now with the shoulder, we get it fixed — it’s about a five-month procedure — and he’s ready to go in the spring. So, it is what it is. Anybody can get hurt. … He’s got to have surgery.”
You can read that 10x and still not know what he was trying to say.
He basically said "cut me some slack because we all know I suck at this".
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I believe is that he just doesn't want to be a pro football player. Not really in the class of Baker falling asleep at meetings, but the sense was he just wasn't cut out for the grind it takes to play, to fight thru injury. Covid gave him a chance to opt out and keep the year to vest for his retirement benefits. That seems to be the insinuation from people in the know. In the end, yes, a wasted 3rd round pick.
Without trying to make this a blame game this is exactly the thing you are trying to look before BEFORE you draft a guy.
Either they got conned or they didn't ask the right questions in interviews because this really, really shouldn't happen.
Plus, like anybody in any field, the guy might love it at first and realize later that he doesn't anymore. He might love the college experience and not love the pro life. He might be homesick. There are a hundred reasons to not want to do this anymore, money not withstanding.
The problem is when a guy who's lost his motivation sticks around for the paycheck.
2. Baker,: a terrible mistake. A known red flag was on this player and they still drafted him, and moved up for him. Imagine he was their only 1st rd pick that year?
3 Beal - simply a gamble that didn’t pay off, didn’t love it or hate it. Would have probably loved it with a 5 vs a 3.
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Last year you dummy.
Was that necessary? You must be a miserable grumpy old man at least that’s the way you come across on this message board
When someone says something completely false in order to paint a better picture for their point, yea I get hornery. How hard is it to dbl check your facts before posting something that puts down a player. He was IRed for one year, then played not too badly for a third of the season. Big difference in claiming he had never played a down in the NFL.
I am a 41 year pld man...that thinks you have sounded like a 17 year old moron in the month you have been here.
Go trade up for Devonta Smith in Madden.
unless the OP means some other method of separation.
Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.
The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.
Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.
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is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.
unless the OP means some other method of separation.
Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.
The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.
Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.
I think it has more to do with a dreaded term here...."culture."
The fact is, whether we choose to buy it or not, culture IS a thing that affects the growth of a football team. Especially a young one under a new head coach. Perhaps if Baker had requested a one on one with Judge, DG, Mara et al to assure them of his innocense and how he was ready to be a player, he would have gotten more than a pink slip. His case and then reinstatement would have definitely been a distraction for the team that, at that point, had playoff hopes.
Beal's situation is different. I literally dont know what he was thinking (apparently that was his big knock coming out of college....academics). Career finally got started last year, he finished with some strong tape and would have been the day 1 CB2 on this team. Then he opts out. Im wondering if it had more to do with being annoyed that the Giants signing Bradberry, drafting Holmes and his just not digging having to compete for the position. Because he opted out a month before Baker was released and I hadnt heard anything about him having a situation like Solder's.
Either way, having a guy like Baker come right back as a potential starter midseason could easily screw up the chemistry built in the secondary. With Beal, how do you bring back a giy who took the year off for apparently no reason?
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is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.
unless the OP means some other method of separation.
Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.
The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.
Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.
So the reasons for cutting Baker are clear from your post, the Giants decided to cut ties with him because of perceived legal problems. I assume the Giants conducted an investigation and based on the details made their decision.
I see no way that is relevant to the Beal situation. Presumably the impetus for cutting Beal would be poor play. My point is that doesn't save enough cap space until and unless there is someone better.
IOW, Baker was cut for PR, and even with a salary multiples higher than Beal, it wouldn't really have made sense to outright cut Baker if it was performance related until the Giants have exhausted opportunities for improvement.
Do you think they've done that with Beal?
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In comment 15120358 pjcas18 said:
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is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.
unless the OP means some other method of separation.
Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.
The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.
Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.
I think it has more to do with a dreaded term here...."culture."
The fact is, whether we choose to buy it or not, culture IS a thing that affects the growth of a football team. Especially a young one under a new head coach. Perhaps if Baker had requested a one on one with Judge, DG, Mara et al to assure them of his innocense and how he was ready to be a player, he would have gotten more than a pink slip. His case and then reinstatement would have definitely been a distraction for the team that, at that point, had playoff hopes.
Beal's situation is different. I literally dont know what he was thinking (apparently that was his big knock coming out of college....academics). Career finally got started last year, he finished with some strong tape and would have been the day 1 CB2 on this team. Then he opts out. Im wondering if it had more to do with being annoyed that the Giants signing Bradberry, drafting Holmes and his just not digging having to compete for the position. Because he opted out a month before Baker was released and I hadnt heard anything about him having a situation like Solder's.
Either way, having a guy like Baker come right back as a potential starter midseason could easily screw up the chemistry built in the secondary. With Beal, how do you bring back a giy who took the year off for apparently no reason?
not sure I agree with the Baker "chemistry" thing. Didn't seem to be a problem for the defending Super Bowl Champion to try and work him in.
He was cut because he wasn't dedicated enough to the game to learn the darn playbook. Not in year 1 where his lack of study caused broken coverages time and time again, nor during the mangled Covid dictated off season when he didn't participate in the zoom instructional meetings (and probably tried to fool the Giant that he was there by disabling his video or something.) Maybe Judge would have given Baker a little more leeway if he could have gotten him "in the building" to work on his attitude issues and "teach" him, but that wasnt an option, and Baker was 100% the wrong personality fit for Judge's culture building program.
And THAT'S the link or comparison between Baker and Beal as Matt in SGS revealed. Neither one is a personality fit for JJ's culture. Beal is the anti- Ahmad Bradshaw, who needed a walking boot Mon-Fri then played like a warrior on Sunday.
He was cut because he wasn't dedicated enough to the game to learn the darn playbook. Not in year 1 where his lack of study caused broken coverages time and time again, nor during the mangled Covid dictated off season when he didn't participate in the zoom instructional meetings (and probably tried to fool the Giant that he was there by disabling his video or something.) Maybe Judge would have given Baker a little more leeway if he could have gotten him "in the building" to work on his attitude issues and "teach" him, but that wasnt an option, and Baker was 100% the wrong personality fit for Judge's culture building program.
And THAT'S the link or comparison between Baker and Beal as Matt in SGS revealed. Neither one is a personality fit for JJ's culture. Beal is the anti- Ahmad Bradshaw, who needed a walking boot Mon-Fri then played like a warrior on Sunday.
Seriously?
So you believe without the arrest, Baker, a former 1st round pick just one season into his NFL career, still would have been cut before participating in one training camp practice or one game snap taken with Joe Judge's Giants?
I strenuously disagree.
2. Baker,: a terrible mistake. A known red flag was on this player and they still drafted him, and moved up for him. Imagine he was their only 1st rd pick that year?
3 Beal - simply a gamble that didn’t pay off, didn’t love it or hate it. Would have probably loved it with a 5 vs a 3.
Maybe Gettleman does well with late round picks because the rest of the roster is so terrible. These guys wouldn’t see the field on another team.
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BREAKING NEWS
DG FIRST GM TO NEVER BE BLAMED FOR BAD PICKS!
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Guess what, getting criticized comes with the territory. If you're going to take risks (trading up for a CB with numerous red flags, or using a supp on an oft-injured one), you better get it right.
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As I see it, Baker wasn't cut for PR reasons, not at all really.
He was cut because he wasn't dedicated enough to the game to learn the darn playbook. Not in year 1 where his lack of study caused broken coverages time and time again, nor during the mangled Covid dictated off season when he didn't participate in the zoom instructional meetings (and probably tried to fool the Giant that he was there by disabling his video or something.) Maybe Judge would have given Baker a little more leeway if he could have gotten him "in the building" to work on his attitude issues and "teach" him, but that wasnt an option, and Baker was 100% the wrong personality fit for Judge's culture building program.
And THAT'S the link or comparison between Baker and Beal as Matt in SGS revealed. Neither one is a personality fit for JJ's culture. Beal is the anti- Ahmad Bradshaw, who needed a walking boot Mon-Fri then played like a warrior on Sunday.
Seriously?
So you believe without the arrest, Baker, a former 1st round pick just one season into his NFL career, still would have been cut before participating in one training camp practice or one game snap taken with Joe Judge's Giants?
I strenuously disagree.
It's not an either-or discussion.
Baker was cut because he was in legal trouble AND he was slacking off on the field and in the offseason. Heck, he might have even been slacking off in conditioning - KC puts him in his only action of the season while they rest their starters and he breaks a leg on a non-contact play.
I doubt it was due to PR as much as it was due to the fact he was a player who didn't seemingly put the dedication in , had fallen out of favor with the staff, AND had a black cloud over him with legal issues. He wasn't going to be cut if he didn't get arrested, but it also wasn't done just for PR. what benefit does a team get for that kind of PR anyway?
Go back to the archived BBI thread, I guarantee you will see a ton of posters saying "you have to cut him immediately" - even before due process. Read the articles, I bet you see a lot of the same from beats and other reporters. It wasn't like Josh Brown for obvious reasons, but there was pressure I'm sure.
but...if saying he was cut for PR reasons is too limiting, then I'm find amending my position to say:
"If he wasn't arrested, he would not have been cut" as you said.
which is mainly my point.
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In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote: Beal, Ballentine.
The 3 amigos.//////////
That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.
REVISION: That's what happens when you have a weak roster across multiple positions because of many years of poor drafting and feel like you have to plug the worst, first.
As vs, for example, Chiefs and Ravens, with strong rosters, can select specific types of players to plug into their systems and make the team stronger. We draft in the attempt to make the team less weak.
So missing on an entire cluster draft is the way to make the team less weak? Seems like an odd strategy.
Here's an alternative thought - what if a GM actually drafts good players instead? That seems like a more effective way to make the team less weak. I guess that's just my opinion though.
This bears repeating - the average NFL career is ~3 years. Meaning, after three years on the job now, DG would have more or less turned over the majority of the roster no matter what shape Reese left it in. And DG has done exactly that - he has turned over almost the entire roster. This team is the one he built, not the one he inherited.
It's time to stop giving DG a pass for the team because of Reese's mistakes, especially when it is largely DG's own mistakes that have then dictated subsequent moves (e.g, does DG draft Thomas if Solder didn't suck? Does he sign Martinez if Ogletree didn't suck?) that have reduced his ability to address other areas of the roster. And if DG's hand was truly as forced as you suggest, doesn't that emphasize further that he should have been pursuing trade down opportunities at any point that might have given him even more assets with which he could reinforce the foundation of the roster?
DG's own actions are not consistent with the excuses some fans want to make for him.
I'm curious how you define "done well on late rd picks." Darius Slayton is a very good pick. Julian Love is decent. Lauletta was a bust, R.J. McIntosh didn't play at all this year. Corey Ballantine, George Asafo-Adjei, and Chris Slayton are gone already. Ryan Connelly looked promising, got hurt unfortunately, but then couldn't make the team this year - he only had 6 tackles in 14 games for Minnesota, is that because of the injury or is he just not as good as he looked in a short sample last year?
This past draft's late picks look mostly promising, but it's still too early IMO to hand out gold stars for those players after only one year (although they're definitely on a better trajectory than many of DG's previous late picks). If this year's class continues to improve and if that overall late round quality becomes the norm, I'll agree that it's a strength, but they're not the norm yet and they haven't done enough yet to erase the DG's first two years of later picks.
I just don't quite understand how this becomes a repeated thing when there isn't really any evidence to support that DG is any better than average with late round picks (in fairness, I don't think he's any worse than average either, but I'm not the one trying to claim it as a strength). Most late round picks flame out. Most of DG's late round picks have flamed out. It's not a criticism; this is just to say that there's not enough success in this area for anyone to claim that DG has done well with late round picks relative to the league in general.
In fairness, Reese had some notable late round hits early on, and then mostly stunk in his late round picks through the majority of his tenure. Is that why it seems to some fans that DG is good at those late picks? Sure, he's better than Reese thus far with his later picks. But not good enough on balance, IMO, to call it a strength just yet.
Go trade up for Devonta Smith in Madden.
I did check - I guess when I read he was placed on IR in Sept 2019 I assumed it was season ending. I really do forget they have IR A and IR B and you can come back.
I promise you I NEVER make shit up to support an argument.
People who have wrong info should be and corrected. I thought the response was a little harsh but, I also know how hard it is to communicate through text alone. A harmless comment can come of a lot harder than intended without the benefit of facial expression or tone of voice.
We are talking about football here - I assumed chop was just breaking balls.
I still think he will not be on the roster next year.
; )