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Beal will NOT be on the 2021 NYGiants according to

BelieveJJ : 1/12/2021 11:19 am
Giants' Insider beat reporter Chris Bisignano. On one of their last 2 podcasts he said that he heard from "inside the building" that Beal did some things that made him persona non grata to the current coaching staff even before Beal opted out of the 2020 season.

He did not state anything more specifically than that, basically just saying he didn't expect Beal to be competing for the #2 outside CB starting role opposite James Bradberry in 2021, because of those (unspecified) actions prior to opting out.

IIRC his exact words were: "I don't expect Beal back for the 2021 season with the Giants."

Thought I'd pass that along. If DG is "hole filling" in this upcoming draft that puts the CB position on a higher tier of need, I imagine. Unless DG unearths another Bradberry in free agency.
That really sucks if true  
cjac : 1/12/2021 11:21 am : link
that nothing is going to come of Baker and Beal is really really disappointing.
an illustrious career  
markky : 1/12/2021 11:21 am : link
who knew he was even on the team
I doubt Beal had any influence  
section125 : 1/12/2021 11:21 am : link
on whether they would consider CB at #11.
Another CB opposite Bradberry is a glaring need  
Mike from Ohio : 1/12/2021 11:21 am : link
with or without Beal. Not sure why anyone would assume he would naturally slide in to a starting spot. He is a 3rd round pick that has not demonstrated anything at the NFL level. If he is on the team he is fighting for a roster spot.
RE: I doubt Beal had any influence  
BelieveJJ : 1/12/2021 11:22 am : link
In comment 15120034 section125 said:
Quote:
on whether they would consider CB at #11.


Probably 100% correct anyway. My bad.
Interesting news  
BillT : 1/12/2021 11:23 am : link
Hard to have much hope he'd be a contributor but that he has issues as well as opting out (which made no sense given his first 2 years and a new staff to impress) it's not surprising.
Wonderful draft picks by DG Baker and Beal  
ImissTiki : 1/12/2021 11:24 am : link
.
There's that batting average Mara was talking about  
Go Terps : 1/12/2021 11:28 am : link
Sure wouldn't have sucked to have used that pick on Terry McClaurin or Chase Winovich.
Baker  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/12/2021 11:29 am : link
Beal, Ballentine.

The 3 amigos.
If you see NE and Graham defenses...press man corner is #1 need  
George from PA : 1/12/2021 11:30 am : link
One intriguing late waiver pick up was
Quincy Wilson.

He was a Colts 2nd draft pick who played very well his 1st year as a press corner. Colts defense changed and he had some injuries... was traded to the Jets, had a concession early and never saw field and was waived in November.
The one benefit to having such a lousy roster year after year  
widmerseyebrow : 1/12/2021 11:32 am : link
Is that every draft I usually don't have to concern myself with what position they're taking with their premium picks. We can use anything (except for another 1st round running back).
RE: Baker  
Go Terps : 1/12/2021 11:33 am : link
In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Beal, Ballentine.

The 3 amigos.


That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.
Maybe Beal saw this  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/12/2021 11:34 am : link
and it contributed to the opt out. Who knows.

I am all in on a corner when they pick if it is BPA in round 1. Bradberry signed a three year deal and still young he may slow in a couple years.

Much rather identify a potential elite corner this draft than spend on another FA.
Dammit.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/12/2021 11:35 am : link
Thanks for passing along.
RE: If you see NE and Graham defenses...press man corner is #1 need  
BillT : 1/12/2021 11:38 am : link
In comment 15120049 George from PA said:
Quote:
One intriguing late waiver pick up was
Quincy Wilson.

He was a Colts 2nd draft pick who played very well his 1st year as a press corner. Colts defense changed and he had some injuries... was traded to the Jets, had a concession early and never saw field and was waived in November.

Good pick up. That's really interesting. From the BBI scouting reports. "Wilson has played in 32 regular-season games with 11 starts, accruing 59 tackles, 8 pass defenses, and 2 interceptions." That's a guy with at least some potential and some experience. He Love and Yiadom are a reasonably interesting group.
He dressed for like 5 or 6 games  
90.Cal : 1/12/2021 11:40 am : link
In 3 seasons...

People going crazy over DG trading a 3rd round pick for Leonard Williams when that same 3rd round pick more times than not is a 'Sam Beal' was always a head scratcher to me.

DG has struggled on Day 2.

Will H
Carter
Hill
Beal
Trade up for Baker
McKinney
Peart

McKinney is the only one with a chance to make a real impact going forward, possibly... and we truthfully have no idea about Peart... all I can say is 3rd Round OTs come around only once every 3 years or so... Terron Armstead and Orlando Brown are the only two good OTs taken in the 3rd round that I can remember over the last 7 years or so...
RE: RE: Baker  
GmanND : 1/12/2021 11:41 am : link
In comment 15120053 Go Terps said:
Quote:


That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.


I hope you're wrong but fear you're not.
RE: RE: Baker  
widmerseyebrow : 1/12/2021 11:42 am : link
In comment 15120053 Go Terps said:
Quote:

That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.


The bigger issue is that we can't identify talent consistently. When you're an inaccurate dart thrower, the only way you can hope for a hit is if you throw more darts.
RE: RE: Baker  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/12/2021 11:42 am : link
In comment 15120053 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


Beal, Ballentine.

The 3 amigos.



That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.


Still have Julian Love!
Although  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/12/2021 11:43 am : link
I do remember alot of posters here (myself included) that DG did "cluster draft" these guys.

Poof. Gone like Andy DuFrense
RE: RE: Baker  
ColHowPepper : 1/12/2021 11:44 am : link
In comment 15120053 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote: Beal, Ballentine.
The 3 amigos.//////////


That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.
REVISION: That's what happens when you have a weak roster across multiple positions because of many years of poor drafting and feel like you have to plug the worst, first.
As vs, for example, Chiefs and Ravens, with strong rosters, can select specific types of players to plug into their systems and make the team stronger. We draft in the attempt to make the team less weak.
Very disappointed in Beal.  
mittenedman : 1/12/2021 11:47 am : link
Out of the "Killer B's" I thought Beal had the most upside of any of them. This may sound like a weird comparison but he reminded me of Will Hill with his effortless athleticism.

Unfortunately it sounds like his attitude is holding him back. He's got a great skillset from what I saw.
Dont put Ballantine in with the others  
NoPeanutz : 1/12/2021 11:48 am : link
Nearly the only reason why we know Ballantine's name is because Beal and Baker were not available, or MIA.
The guy was a pick near the bottom of the draft, and asked to start against the best.
RE: Although  
Mike from Ohio : 1/12/2021 11:50 am : link
In comment 15120074 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
I do remember alot of posters here (myself included) that DG did "cluster draft" these guys.

Poof. Gone like Andy DuFrense


The whole point of cluster drafting is that you should be set at a position if one or two work out. When you cluster draft and they are all misses...well, it's not good.
Beal not on the roster?  
David B. : 1/12/2021 11:51 am : link
So. Why should this year be any different?
RE: Baker  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 11:57 am : link
In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Beal, Ballentine.

The 3 amigos.


Combined, these 3 amigos cost the NY Giants a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and a 6th round pick.

Almost an entire draft wasted on crappy CB evaluations during a rebuild.
They need to add another Versatile Secondary player in the draft  
DavidinBMNY : 1/12/2021 11:57 am : link
Players always are getting injured. There starting secondary with Love at CB#2 is solid. But they need one more strong player in the secondary.

And I believe this, and if this is the case they've known this well over a year and probably has some impact on why they Added Ryan.
RE: Very disappointed in Beal.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2021 11:58 am : link
In comment 15120082 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Out of the "Killer B's" I thought Beal had the most upside of any of them. This may sound like a weird comparison but he reminded me of Will Hill with his effortless athleticism.

Unfortunately it sounds like his attitude is holding him back. He's got a great skillset from what I saw.


Not calling you a liar, but he never played. I don't know anything about him cause he was almost never captured on video playing football.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2021 11:58 am : link
I forgot Beal was even on the team.
Has there ever been so much discussion on the board  
Greg from LI : 1/12/2021 12:00 pm : link
about a player who played so little? Six games in three years, man.
can we stop saying that Ballentine  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2021 12:00 pm : link
was a "waste of a pick?"

If I had to guess I'd say that 85% of 6th round draft picks don't even make the team, let alone sniff the NFL field. Let's relax on that.
Sometimes cluster draft  
JB_in_DC : 1/12/2021 12:00 pm : link
can turn into cluster fuck.

CB or WR makes a lot a sense at 11/42. Its funny that three of the CB options have ex NFL star fathers: Patrick Surtain, Jaycee Horn, and Asante Samuel as a potential option in the 2nd. Surtain was my favorite player of the bunch, but Asante Samuel had my favorite moment.
Guys like Crowder  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2021 12:01 pm : link
Coughlin, and Brown are not the norm when it comes to picking guys in round 6 and 7. Guys like Ballentine are.
RE: RE: Very disappointed in Beal.  
Mike from Ohio : 1/12/2021 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15120099 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15120082 mittenedman said:


Quote:


Out of the "Killer B's" I thought Beal had the most upside of any of them. This may sound like a weird comparison but he reminded me of Will Hill with his effortless athleticism.

Unfortunately it sounds like his attitude is holding him back. He's got a great skillset from what I saw.



Not calling you a liar, but he never played. I don't know anything about him cause he was almost never captured on video playing football.


LOL! Beal captured at mini camp in 2019

No big deal  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/12/2021 12:03 pm : link
He sucked big time. He was a wasted draft pick. It was 100% of that when he was getting lit up by 7th string receivers on the Eagles in 2019.
i mean yeah  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2021 12:03 pm : link
Ballentine is a bad NFL player. There's a reason he was picked in the 6th round.

And I know this semantics, but Baker did not 'cost us a 2nd rounder." He was picked with the pick we were going to have in round 2.

That's like saying Eli cost us a 1st rounder in 2004.
RE: Baker  
Section331 : 1/12/2021 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Beal, Ballentine.

The 3 amigos.


Ballentine was a 6th round pick. Unlike the other 2, he played his ass off, he just didn't have the talent. I still think he has value as a ST/dime CB.

It doesn't seem like Beal really wants to play. 3 years and we got nothing out of him.
RE: can we stop saying that Ballentine  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2021 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15120105 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
was a "waste of a pick?"

If I had to guess I'd say that 85% of 6th round draft picks don't even make the team, let alone sniff the NFL field. Let's relax on that.


and that Baker was a terrible pick. What happened was off the field was poor judgement on his part, but he had no issues coming out of college, and one year with a coaching staff that did no teaching isnt enough to write any one off. It's too bad he didnt get to play under Graham and staff to see. and worse that he had that horrible injury in his first game back
RE: i mean yeah  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15120113 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Ballentine is a bad NFL player. There's a reason he was picked in the 6th round.

And I know this semantics, but Baker did not 'cost us a 2nd rounder." He was picked with the pick we were going to have in round 2.

That's like saying Eli cost us a 1st rounder in 2004.


Baker cost a 2nd, 4th and 5th.

Those aren't semantics.
RE: They need to add another Versatile Secondary player in the draft  
Section331 : 1/12/2021 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15120098 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
Players always are getting injured. There starting secondary with Love at CB#2 is solid. But they need one more strong player in the secondary.

And I believe this, and if this is the case they've known this well over a year and probably has some impact on why they Added Ryan.


I like Julian Love a lot, but if he is our 2nd CB heading into next season, we're in a world of trouble. He's better off at safety, or as a rotational CB.
The only roster decision Beal might factor into  
JonC : 1/12/2021 12:07 pm : link
is the bottom of the depth chart. Plan as if he's (still) not there.

Giants need a boundary corner opposite Bradberry, depth and competition for nickel, et al.
LBH  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2021 12:10 pm : link
no, Baker cost us a 4th and 5th. Stop the bullshit.
Giants  
PaulN : 1/12/2021 12:10 pm : link
Are starting over from this past year, they were 6-10 against a very tough schedule, we have Bradbury, Holmes, Love, Wilson, Yiadom, McKinney, Ryan, and Peppers in the defensive backfield right now, that is not too shaby, I am certain the players with another training camp and a few pre season games will be ready for a big improvement from the players we have, adding a pass rusher or two from the outside is another way to improve the pass defense while also helping the rush defense with the right additions, this is probably a more important need, I am not as concerned, I trust Judge and Graham will identify the needs and help Gettleman bring in the right players to address the needs. Beal sucked anyway, no loss, time to move ahead and think about where we are starting from now vs last year. Spags is gone, Graham is here, I like what he did with what he had and I like Judge far better as head coach over Spags, again, lets move on, a fruitless debate.
RE: i mean yeah  
Section331 : 1/12/2021 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15120113 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:

And I know this semantics, but Baker did not 'cost us a 2nd rounder." He was picked with the pick we were going to have in round 2.



That is fair, and something people do too often, but trading up for Baker was a terrible waste of assets. Even if you like the guy a lot, there were other CB's who were just as good still on the board. Unless you think the guy is going to be a Darelle Revis, you don't trade up for a slight improvement, especially with a team with so many needs.
RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15120125 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
no, Baker cost us a 4th and 5th. Stop the bullshit.


Don't follow...what bullsh___?

Giants picked him in first round. They got the pick from burning a 2nd, 4th and 5th.
I hope last year's  
Dnew15 : 1/12/2021 12:14 pm : link
crop of cluster drafting LBs goes better than the DB cluster draft of the supplemental draft of 2018 and draft of 2019.

The only guy left is Love.
Hoping not true  
SLIM_ : 1/12/2021 12:15 pm : link
Not sure how egregious his infractions are but 23 year old people mature sometimes. I would at least love for him to come to camp and prove himself. He isn't on scholarship. He's a bottom of the roster player with some talent.
Beal was notable  
NoPeanutz : 1/12/2021 12:21 pm : link
bc he was taken in the 3rd round of the supplemental- often regarded as first round talent for the Spring draft. That is rare event.

Before Sam, the only other player the Giants took in Supplemental was one Tito Whooten in the 4th. That is it. No other players taken by the Giants in the Supplemental. That would be crazy. Certainly not the first round. Move along, nothing to see here.
RE: RE: can we stop saying that Ballentine  
section125 : 1/12/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15120116 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15120105 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


was a "waste of a pick?"

If I had to guess I'd say that 85% of 6th round draft picks don't even make the team, let alone sniff the NFL field. Let's relax on that.



and that Baker was a terrible pick. What happened was off the field was poor judgement on his part, but he had no issues coming out of college, and one year with a coaching staff that did no teaching isnt enough to write any one off. It's too bad he didnt get to play under Graham and staff to see. and worse that he had that horrible injury in his first game back


This +1
RE: Guys like Crowder  
christian : 1/12/2021 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15120108 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Coughlin, and Brown are not the norm when it comes to picking guys in round 6 and 7. Guys like Ballentine are.


Guys like Coughlin, Brown, and Crowder are quite a bit like Ballentine. They are fringe players who got some burn because of injuries, but shouldn’t be penciled in as starters.
RE: Beal was notable  
Dnew15 : 1/12/2021 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15120146 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
bc he was taken in the 3rd round of the supplemental- often regarded as first round talent for the Spring draft. That is rare event.

Before Sam, the only other player the Giants took in Supplemental was one Tito Whooten in the 4th. That is it. No other players taken by the Giants in the Supplemental. That would be crazy. Certainly not the first round. Move along, nothing to see here.


Well...and of course Duke QB Dave Brown.
I  
AcidTest : 1/12/2021 12:35 pm : link
think we need more information before concluding that this report is correct. I always thought Beal would come to camp and have to compete for a roster spot.

Baker was a waste. Many people in the Giants organization apparently did not want to draft him. He was also the Thorpe Award winner for the best DB in college football, but was still available at #30, even though the NFL is a passing league. If we hadn't traded up to take him, he would not have been drafted in the first round.

Ballentine as others have noted was a sixth round pick from a small college. He was also shot just after being drafted.

Yiadom was worth the seventh round pick we traded to Denver to get him this year. Love and Holmes were good picks. McKinney is an unknown, but looks promising.

I think we used a first round supplemental draft pick on Dave Brown.
Dont' blame Gettleman, he only used 6 draft picks on CB in 2019  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/12/2021 12:41 pm : link
...to find a functional starter.
RE: RE: LBH  
christian : 1/12/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15120131 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15120125 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


no, Baker cost us a 4th and 5th. Stop the bullshit.



Don't follow...what bullsh___?

Giants picked him in first round. They got the pick from burning a 2nd, 4th and 5th.


This is one of the weirder mind fucks of last year.

If the Giants don’t make the trade, they would have picked 3 players.

In exchange for those three players, they received one player.

If you had an apple, and I gave you three oranges in exchange for it — how many oranges did the apple cost?
RE: can we stop saying that Ballentine  
Mdgiantsfan : 1/12/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15120105 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
was a "waste of a pick?"

If I had to guess I'd say that 85% of 6th round draft picks don't even make the team, let alone sniff the NFL field. Let's relax on that.


He’s still part of this convo simply because we invested so heavily in that position. Now even his selection was a waste because that could’ve been a pic invested elsewhere. But it feels like by comparison, we got the most value out of him.
RE: RE: RE: LBH  
Go Terps : 1/12/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15120185 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15120131 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 15120125 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


no, Baker cost us a 4th and 5th. Stop the bullshit.



Don't follow...what bullsh___?

Giants picked him in first round. They got the pick from burning a 2nd, 4th and 5th.



This is one of the weirder mind fucks of last year.

If the Giants don’t make the trade, they would have picked 3 players.

In exchange for those three players, they received one player.

If you had an apple, and I gave you three oranges in exchange for it — how many oranges did the apple cost?


A new level of rationalization.
RE: RE: RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15120185 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15120131 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 15120125 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


no, Baker cost us a 4th and 5th. Stop the bullshit.



Don't follow...what bullsh___?

Giants picked him in first round. They got the pick from burning a 2nd, 4th and 5th.



This is one of the weirder mind fucks of last year.

If the Giants don’t make the trade, they would have picked 3 players.

In exchange for those three players, they received one player.

If you had an apple, and I gave you three oranges in exchange for it — how many oranges did the apple cost?


If a 1st round draft pick falls down in the woods but nobody is there to hear it, did the NY Giants actually pick him at all?
The 2019 draft  
Jarvis : 1/12/2021 12:51 pm : link
is in my opinion DG's darkest moment...He spent the 2,3,4,5 on 2 cornerbacks that were off the team in a year. It's challenging to recover from that.
Sucks if this is true  
nyjuggernaut2 : 1/12/2021 1:18 pm : link
Beal is still on his rookie deal, and with the lack of depth already at the CB position it would've been nice to have a guy like that on the roster who could contribute and not cost a whole lot.
RE: I doubt Beal had any influence  
Beer Man : 1/12/2021 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15120034 section125 said:
Quote:
on whether they would consider CB at #11.
+1
That would be another high draft pick biting the dust!  
Simms11 : 1/12/2021 1:19 pm : link
DG really needs another off-season like the last. First two years under DG have shown to be abysmal.
RE: Wonderful draft picks by DG Baker and Beal  
Rory : 1/12/2021 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15120041 ImissTiki said:
Quote:
.


both players were highly touted, their character concerns are not DG's fault.

stupid post
RE: RE: Baker  
Rory : 1/12/2021 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15120096 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


Beal, Ballentine.

The 3 amigos.



Combined, these 3 amigos cost the NY Giants a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and a 6th round pick.

Almost an entire draft wasted on crappy CB evaluations during a rebuild.


oh shut the fuck up, Beal/Baker issues weren't performance related. Get a clue man
Let’s see if  
Big Blue '56 : 1/12/2021 1:43 pm : link
this is true
RE: RE: RE: Baker  
81_Great_Dane : 1/12/2021 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15120071 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15120053 Go Terps said:


Quote:



That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.



The bigger issue is that we can't identify talent consistently. When you're an inaccurate dart thrower, the only way you can hope for a hit is if you throw more darts.
Everybody misses on draft picks. I think DG is hitting more often than Reese did over his last years. Would still like to see him hit more often.

Also noting that Darian Thompson, a big fizzle for the Giants, was starting for Dallas. So there's also an issue with player development. I think Judge is fixing that.
RE: RE: Wonderful draft picks by DG Baker and Beal  
christian : 1/12/2021 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15120260 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15120041 ImissTiki said:


Quote:


.



both players were highly touted, their character concerns are not DG's fault.

stupid post


Considering the Giants dumped their previous Player Engagement model, revamped the staff, and hired a full-time psychologist to lead the department -- seems pretty clear the organization as a whole recognized character and player evaluation wasn't cutting it.
RE: an illustrious career  
SomeFan : 1/12/2021 2:06 pm : link
In comment 15120032 markky said:
Quote:
who knew he was even on the team


Agree, it will be hard to miss what we never had.
RE: RE: RE: Baker  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15120263 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15120096 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


Beal, Ballentine.

The 3 amigos.



Combined, these 3 amigos cost the NY Giants a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and a 6th round pick.

Almost an entire draft wasted on crappy CB evaluations during a rebuild.



oh shut the fuck up, Beal/Baker issues weren't performance related. Get a clue man


Sure they were...performance from the guys that picked them.
GMOY  
rsjem1979 : 1/12/2021 2:18 pm : link
IMO.

RE: RE: LBH  
Gman11 : 1/12/2021 2:20 pm : link
In comment 15120131 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15120125 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


no, Baker cost us a 4th and 5th. Stop the bullshit.



Don't follow...what bullsh___?

Giants picked him in first round. They got the pick from burning a 2nd, 4th and 5th.


The Giants got a first round draft pick for a second rounder. Uneven trade in the Giants favor if that's all there was to it. However, in order to move up they had to add the 4th and 5th. So, the cost of the trade was the 4th and 5th.
In all seriousness  
BradberryGlue : 1/12/2021 2:26 pm : link
Beal has never been on the Giants, another asset wisely used by our 15-33 GM.
RE: RE: RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 2:28 pm : link
In comment 15120306 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15120131 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 15120125 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


no, Baker cost us a 4th and 5th. Stop the bullshit.



Don't follow...what bullsh___?

Giants picked him in first round. They got the pick from burning a 2nd, 4th and 5th.



The Giants got a first round draft pick for a second rounder. Uneven trade in the Giants favor if that's all there was to it. However, in order to move up they had to add the 4th and 5th. So, the cost of the trade was the 4th and 5th.


Yes, the cost of the trade was a 4th and a 5th.

However, the cost of Baker was a 2nd, 4th and 5th.

And that is indisputable.

Do you all feel like this is some kind of trick question or something?

Another wasted pick  
jeff57 : 1/12/2021 2:33 pm : link
.
a lot of these picks are risks  
bc4life : 1/12/2021 2:34 pm : link
Beal looked good on paper. injury prone and if this is true has shit attitude. could not foresee that.

Baker had some attitude issues in college. would have been interesting to see how he turned out if drafted under this coaching staff
we had two Covid opt outs  
bc4life : 1/12/2021 2:36 pm : link
One has a child dealing a serious disease.

The other one was Beal - addition by subtraction
Holmes looks like the real deal  
bc4life : 1/12/2021 2:37 pm : link
Yiadom got better as year wore on. will definitely be taking some CBs in the draft.
The rumbling on Beal  
Matt in SGS : 1/12/2021 2:39 pm : link
I believe is that he just doesn't want to be a pro football player. Not really in the class of Baker falling asleep at meetings, but the sense was he just wasn't cut out for the grind it takes to play, to fight thru injury. Covid gave him a chance to opt out and keep the year to vest for his retirement benefits. That seems to be the insinuation from people in the know. In the end, yes, a wasted 3rd round pick.
Another whiff for The Resume  
The_Boss : 1/12/2021 2:51 pm : link
The only person who strikes out more might be Gary Sanchez.
His cap number  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2021 2:54 pm : link
is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.

unless the OP means some other method of separation.
Cue The Beal Appreciation Thread  
Trainmaster : 1/12/2021 2:54 pm : link
Sam, we barely knew you.

Maybe Love Is A Gap Filler At The 2nd Corner  
Trainmaster : 1/12/2021 3:00 pm : link
But, if Parsons, Sewell, Chase, Devonte Smith, Waddle and Rousseau are all gone by the 11th pick, drafting Surtain II or Farley may be the BPA in a need position pick.

Another Gettleman gem  
Saquads26 : 1/12/2021 3:01 pm : link
.
RE: The rumbling on Beal  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2021 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15120336 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I believe is that he just doesn't want to be a pro football player. Not really in the class of Baker falling asleep at meetings, but the sense was he just wasn't cut out for the grind it takes to play, to fight thru injury. Covid gave him a chance to opt out and keep the year to vest for his retirement benefits. That seems to be the insinuation from people in the know. In the end, yes, a wasted 3rd round pick.


Without trying to make this a blame game this is exactly the thing you are trying to look before BEFORE you draft a guy.

Either they got conned or they didn't ask the right questions in interviews because this really, really shouldn't happen.
RE: The rumbling on Beal  
JonC : 1/12/2021 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15120336 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I believe is that he just doesn't want to be a pro football player. Not really in the class of Baker falling asleep at meetings, but the sense was he just wasn't cut out for the grind it takes to play, to fight thru injury. Covid gave him a chance to opt out and keep the year to vest for his retirement benefits. That seems to be the insinuation from people in the know. In the end, yes, a wasted 3rd round pick.


It would explain the new coaching staff potentially souring on him quickly.
RE: RE: Wonderful draft picks by DG Baker and Beal  
ImissTiki : 1/12/2021 3:25 pm : link
In comment 15120260 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15120041 ImissTiki said:


Quote:


.



both players were highly touted, their character concerns are not DG's fault.

stupid post

Highly regarded by whom? DG? Baker was the 1st CB drafted in 2019 all the way down at pick #30 clearly the NFL wasn’t overly high on that CB class
Beal was a supplemental draft pick IIrc a real head scratcher @ the time...
Also if you believe Deandre Baker just woke up one day and decided to involve himself in criminal activity or be at a place where criminal activity is possible I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale
2 pitiful draft picks and for New York to improve they have to get better in selecting players and can’t have these complete failure like Beal and Baker
the 2018 and 2019  
Enzo : 1/12/2021 3:57 pm : link
drafts are becoming more and more of a mixed bag...and not in a good way. Injuries, off-the-field concerns, questionable character, and just flat-out poor play. Some bad luck...but also questionable use of resources.
Beal does not appear to be a “football player”. I think if he tried to  
plato : 1/12/2021 4:00 pm : link
come back Judge would cut him at some early pre season point.
They save 588k  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2021 4:06 pm : link
by cutting him, if that's the separation (team cuts him), he'd have to be really bad to have them cut him and it could be more symbolic than just about the cap/roster spot.


So the killer “Bs”  
MtDizzle : 1/12/2021 4:12 pm : link
didn’t pan out? I thought Gettleman can do no wrong other than his 2018. What a fucking joke we are.
Not surprising -  
short lease : 1/12/2021 4:38 pm : link


he was drafted in 2018 and then spent the whole season on IR

2019 - went on IR on Sept 1st - out for the season.

Then last year opts out for Covid reasons in 2020


He has been with the team for 3 seasons and never played a down. I do not know why his opting out bothers me. I guess I expected him to be excited to play after missing all of the first 2 seasons ... and then he takes another year off voluntarily? Hmmm ..
For the idiots claiming Beal cost us only a 4th and 5th  
WillieYoung : 1/12/2021 4:55 pm : link
We drafted Jones with the 6th pick and if he busts it didn't cost us anything because we didn't trade up for the pick.

You can't be that stupid or you'd forget to breathe.
My  
AcidTest : 1/12/2021 5:17 pm : link
recollection is that several teams put in third round picks for Beal, including Cleveland.
Thank you,  
Burt in Alameda : 1/12/2021 5:50 pm : link
Short Lease. I don't know why anyone would be bothered by Beal never playing in a Giants' uniform-- after all he never has after a nominal three seasons with the team. How can you have hopes for that guy? Also, the debate as to whether Baker cost the Giants second, fourth, and fifth draft choices or just the latter two is fascinating. Depending upon how you consider it, the trade up cost the Giants just two draft choices but, in reality, they spent the three picks on Baker. The net result, both sides are right.
RE: Not surprising -  
chopperhatch : 1/12/2021 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15120457 short lease said:
Quote:


he was drafted in 2018 and then spent the whole season on IR

2019 - went on IR on Sept 1st - out for the season.

Then last year opts out for Covid reasons in 2020


He has been with the team for 3 seasons and never played a down. I do not know why his opting out bothers me. I guess I expected him to be excited to play after missing all of the first 2 seasons ... and then he takes another year off voluntarily? Hmmm ..


What?
He played in 6 games  
chopperhatch : 1/12/2021 6:01 pm : link
Last year you dummy.
RE: He played in 6 games  
ImissTiki : 1/12/2021 6:06 pm : link
In comment 15120548 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Last year you dummy.

Was that necessary? You must be a miserable grumpy old man at least that’s the way you come across on this message board
...  
christian : 1/12/2021 6:06 pm : link
Beal was quite bad when he was on the field last year.

He looks the part, but he’s squarely approaching or is a lost cause.

There’s no risk in bringing him to camp next year. But it’d be crazy to expect anything from him.
BREAKING NEWS!  
Platos : 1/12/2021 6:15 pm : link
DG FIRST GM TO EVER MISS ON MULTIPLE DRAFT PICKS

MORE AT 11
the thing about beal that bothered me  
Platos : 1/12/2021 6:21 pm : link
is how the baker drama was the perfect opportunity for him and he decided to opt out.

its insane, does anyone follow him on social media? has he been in a crypt the entire time?
I ll be honest  
joeinpa : 1/12/2021 6:37 pm : link
The minute he opted out, I felt his Giants career was finished. Not surprised to hear this at all.
RE: RE: Wonderful draft picks by DG Baker and Beal  
Section331 : 1/12/2021 6:42 pm : link
In comment 15120260 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15120041 ImissTiki said:


Quote:


.



both players were highly touted, their character concerns are not DG's fault.

stupid post


Sorry, but yes they are. It is a GM’s job to look into player backgrounds. Baker had numerous red flags at GA, bad attitude, poor practice habits - that is not a guy you trade extra picks for.

And Beal with his injury history was a big risk, a risk that good teams can afford to make.
RE: So the killer “Bs”  
BubbaMojo : 1/12/2021 6:45 pm : link
In comment 15120434 MtDizzle said:
Quote:
didn’t pan out? I thought Gettleman can do no wrong other than his 2018. What a fucking joke we are.


Can you provide the proof that people on here have said Gettleman can do no wrong?

Quit bloviating.
below is a quote  
Enzo : 1/12/2021 6:56 pm : link
from DG when Beal went down for the season after pretty much his first practice:
Quote:
“We knew about the shoulder; there was no mystery there,” Gettleman told reporters earlier this week. “We knew about the shoulder. It’s like drafting anybody that’s got an injury; we knew about the shoulder. We had MRIs that Arizona had taken. He comes here, reinjures it, does what he does, and you know, it is what it is. Best-case scenario, he’s on the field and we’re not talking about this. Really and truly, we felt we’re getting next year’s third-round pick this year. So now with the shoulder, we get it fixed — it’s about a five-month procedure — and he’s ready to go in the spring. So, it is what it is. Anybody can get hurt. … He’s got to have surgery.”

You can read that 10x and still not know what he was trying to say.
RE: below is a quote  
LBH15 : 1/12/2021 7:01 pm : link
In comment 15120596 Enzo said:
Quote:
from DG when Beal went down for the season after pretty much his first practice:


Quote:


“We knew about the shoulder; there was no mystery there,” Gettleman told reporters earlier this week. “We knew about the shoulder. It’s like drafting anybody that’s got an injury; we knew about the shoulder. We had MRIs that Arizona had taken. He comes here, reinjures it, does what he does, and you know, it is what it is. Best-case scenario, he’s on the field and we’re not talking about this. Really and truly, we felt we’re getting next year’s third-round pick this year. So now with the shoulder, we get it fixed — it’s about a five-month procedure — and he’s ready to go in the spring. So, it is what it is. Anybody can get hurt. … He’s got to have surgery.”


You can read that 10x and still not know what he was trying to say.


He basically said "cut me some slack because we all know I suck at this".
RE: RE: The rumbling on Beal  
81_Great_Dane : 1/12/2021 7:37 pm : link
In comment 15120377 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15120336 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


I believe is that he just doesn't want to be a pro football player. Not really in the class of Baker falling asleep at meetings, but the sense was he just wasn't cut out for the grind it takes to play, to fight thru injury. Covid gave him a chance to opt out and keep the year to vest for his retirement benefits. That seems to be the insinuation from people in the know. In the end, yes, a wasted 3rd round pick.



Without trying to make this a blame game this is exactly the thing you are trying to look before BEFORE you draft a guy.

Either they got conned or they didn't ask the right questions in interviews because this really, really shouldn't happen.
I don't think it's that easy to find out if a guy is motivated enough to be a pro football player, or NBA player, for that matter, because these draft prospects don't necessarily understand what level of commitment is required. Dwayne Haskins didn't, apparently, and he was a highly touted first-round pick.

Plus, like anybody in any field, the guy might love it at first and realize later that he doesn't anymore. He might love the college experience and not love the pro life. He might be homesick. There are a hundred reasons to not want to do this anymore, money not withstanding.

The problem is when a guy who's lost his motivation sticks around for the paycheck.
Breaking down these picks  
DavidinBMNY : 1/12/2021 8:36 pm : link
1. Ballantine , no issues, had the physical measurablea, 6th rd pick. DG has done well on late rd picks. Missing this one was only critical because baker and Beal.

2. Baker,: a terrible mistake. A known red flag was on this player and they still drafted him, and moved up for him. Imagine he was their only 1st rd pick that year?

3 Beal - simply a gamble that didn’t pay off, didn’t love it or hate it. Would have probably loved it with a 5 vs a 3.

RE: RE: He played in 6 games  
chopperhatch : 1/12/2021 8:45 pm : link
In comment 15120558 ImissTiki said:
Quote:
In comment 15120548 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


Last year you dummy.


Was that necessary? You must be a miserable grumpy old man at least that’s the way you come across on this message board


When someone says something completely false in order to paint a better picture for their point, yea I get hornery. How hard is it to dbl check your facts before posting something that puts down a player. He was IRed for one year, then played not too badly for a third of the season. Big difference in claiming he had never played a down in the NFL.

I am a 41 year pld man...that thinks you have sounded like a 17 year old moron in the month you have been here.
Furthermore, the dummy comment was tongue in cheek  
chopperhatch : 1/12/2021 8:47 pm : link
and because short lease has been here for a bit, I assume he checked if I was correct and laughed it off.

Go trade up for Devonta Smith in Madden.
RE: His cap number  
BelieveJJ : 1/12/2021 9:26 pm : link
In comment 15120358 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.

unless the OP means some other method of separation.


Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.

The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.

Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.

RE: RE: His cap number  
chopperhatch : 1/12/2021 9:37 pm : link
In comment 15120713 BelieveJJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15120358 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.

unless the OP means some other method of separation.



Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.

The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.

Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.



I think it has more to do with a dreaded term here...."culture."

The fact is, whether we choose to buy it or not, culture IS a thing that affects the growth of a football team. Especially a young one under a new head coach. Perhaps if Baker had requested a one on one with Judge, DG, Mara et al to assure them of his innocense and how he was ready to be a player, he would have gotten more than a pink slip. His case and then reinstatement would have definitely been a distraction for the team that, at that point, had playoff hopes.

Beal's situation is different. I literally dont know what he was thinking (apparently that was his big knock coming out of college....academics). Career finally got started last year, he finished with some strong tape and would have been the day 1 CB2 on this team. Then he opts out. Im wondering if it had more to do with being annoyed that the Giants signing Bradberry, drafting Holmes and his just not digging having to compete for the position. Because he opted out a month before Baker was released and I hadnt heard anything about him having a situation like Solder's.

Either way, having a guy like Baker come right back as a potential starter midseason could easily screw up the chemistry built in the secondary. With Beal, how do you bring back a giy who took the year off for apparently no reason?
Everyone needs to calm  
SleepyOwl : 1/12/2021 10:40 pm : link
down. So a "person in the know," claims this kid will not be on the team. Guess what as of right now Sam Beal is a NY Giant. *UNTIL OTHERWISE* Please put the We Hate DG posters back in the attic where they belong along with your dad's disco pants dynamite dude shirt ensemble.
RE: RE: His cap number  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2021 10:44 pm : link
In comment 15120713 BelieveJJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15120358 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.

unless the OP means some other method of separation.



Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.

The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.

Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.


So the reasons for cutting Baker are clear from your post, the Giants decided to cut ties with him because of perceived legal problems. I assume the Giants conducted an investigation and based on the details made their decision.

I see no way that is relevant to the Beal situation. Presumably the impetus for cutting Beal would be poor play. My point is that doesn't save enough cap space until and unless there is someone better.

IOW, Baker was cut for PR, and even with a salary multiples higher than Beal, it wouldn't really have made sense to outright cut Baker if it was performance related until the Giants have exhausted opportunities for improvement.

Do you think they've done that with Beal?
RE: RE: RE: His cap number  
Victor in CT : 1/13/2021 7:44 am : link
In comment 15120722 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15120713 BelieveJJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15120358 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is so small, even if he doesn't project to be a star, it's hard to envision it making sense to cut him.

unless the OP means some other method of separation.



Baker was a TREMENDOUS college talent, one of the highest graded CBs in college football over 2 years, playing im the SEC guarding the best WRs in CFB. He won the Jim Thorpe award as the nation's best DB, period.

The Giants cut HIM seemingly because of unfounded allegations which in the end were determined to be groundless in so far as criminal prosecution was concerned.

Why wouldn't they cut Beal? Or shouldn't they? He's the fly on the elephant's ass compared with Baker the elephant, so far as CB hopes were weighed.





I think it has more to do with a dreaded term here...."culture."

The fact is, whether we choose to buy it or not, culture IS a thing that affects the growth of a football team. Especially a young one under a new head coach. Perhaps if Baker had requested a one on one with Judge, DG, Mara et al to assure them of his innocense and how he was ready to be a player, he would have gotten more than a pink slip. His case and then reinstatement would have definitely been a distraction for the team that, at that point, had playoff hopes.

Beal's situation is different. I literally dont know what he was thinking (apparently that was his big knock coming out of college....academics). Career finally got started last year, he finished with some strong tape and would have been the day 1 CB2 on this team. Then he opts out. Im wondering if it had more to do with being annoyed that the Giants signing Bradberry, drafting Holmes and his just not digging having to compete for the position. Because he opted out a month before Baker was released and I hadnt heard anything about him having a situation like Solder's.

Either way, having a guy like Baker come right back as a potential starter midseason could easily screw up the chemistry built in the secondary. With Beal, how do you bring back a giy who took the year off for apparently no reason?


not sure I agree with the Baker "chemistry" thing. Didn't seem to be a problem for the defending Super Bowl Champion to try and work him in.
PJ excuse me for not being clear enough.  
BelieveJJ : 1/13/2021 8:25 am : link
As I see it, Baker wasn't cut for PR reasons, not at all really.

He was cut because he wasn't dedicated enough to the game to learn the darn playbook. Not in year 1 where his lack of study caused broken coverages time and time again, nor during the mangled Covid dictated off season when he didn't participate in the zoom instructional meetings (and probably tried to fool the Giant that he was there by disabling his video or something.) Maybe Judge would have given Baker a little more leeway if he could have gotten him "in the building" to work on his attitude issues and "teach" him, but that wasnt an option, and Baker was 100% the wrong personality fit for Judge's culture building program.

And THAT'S the link or comparison between Baker and Beal as Matt in SGS revealed. Neither one is a personality fit for JJ's culture. Beal is the anti- Ahmad Bradshaw, who needed a walking boot Mon-Fri then played like a warrior on Sunday.
RE: PJ excuse me for not being clear enough.  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2021 8:43 am : link
In comment 15120846 BelieveJJ said:
Quote:
As I see it, Baker wasn't cut for PR reasons, not at all really.

He was cut because he wasn't dedicated enough to the game to learn the darn playbook. Not in year 1 where his lack of study caused broken coverages time and time again, nor during the mangled Covid dictated off season when he didn't participate in the zoom instructional meetings (and probably tried to fool the Giant that he was there by disabling his video or something.) Maybe Judge would have given Baker a little more leeway if he could have gotten him "in the building" to work on his attitude issues and "teach" him, but that wasnt an option, and Baker was 100% the wrong personality fit for Judge's culture building program.

And THAT'S the link or comparison between Baker and Beal as Matt in SGS revealed. Neither one is a personality fit for JJ's culture. Beal is the anti- Ahmad Bradshaw, who needed a walking boot Mon-Fri then played like a warrior on Sunday.

Seriously?

So you believe without the arrest, Baker, a former 1st round pick just one season into his NFL career, still would have been cut before participating in one training camp practice or one game snap taken with Joe Judge's Giants?

I strenuously disagree.

RE: Breaking down these picks  
monstercoo : 1/13/2021 9:26 am : link
In comment 15120679 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
1. Ballantine , no issues, had the physical measurablea, 6th rd pick. DG has done well on late rd picks. Missing this one was only critical because baker and Beal.

2. Baker,: a terrible mistake. A known red flag was on this player and they still drafted him, and moved up for him. Imagine he was their only 1st rd pick that year?

3 Beal - simply a gamble that didn’t pay off, didn’t love it or hate it. Would have probably loved it with a 5 vs a 3.


Maybe Gettleman does well with late round picks because the rest of the roster is so terrible. These guys wouldn’t see the field on another team.
RE: BREAKING NEWS!  
Section331 : 1/13/2021 9:32 am : link
In comment 15120566 Platos said:
Quote:
DG FIRST GM TO EVER MISS ON MULTIPLE DRAFT PICKS

MORE AT 11


BREAKING NEWS

DG FIRST GM TO NEVER BE BLAMED FOR BAD PICKS!

MORE AT 11

Guess what, getting criticized comes with the territory. If you're going to take risks (trading up for a CB with numerous red flags, or using a supp on an oft-injured one), you better get it right.
RE: RE: PJ excuse me for not being clear enough.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/13/2021 9:39 am : link
In comment 15120863 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15120846 BelieveJJ said:


Quote:


As I see it, Baker wasn't cut for PR reasons, not at all really.

He was cut because he wasn't dedicated enough to the game to learn the darn playbook. Not in year 1 where his lack of study caused broken coverages time and time again, nor during the mangled Covid dictated off season when he didn't participate in the zoom instructional meetings (and probably tried to fool the Giant that he was there by disabling his video or something.) Maybe Judge would have given Baker a little more leeway if he could have gotten him "in the building" to work on his attitude issues and "teach" him, but that wasnt an option, and Baker was 100% the wrong personality fit for Judge's culture building program.

And THAT'S the link or comparison between Baker and Beal as Matt in SGS revealed. Neither one is a personality fit for JJ's culture. Beal is the anti- Ahmad Bradshaw, who needed a walking boot Mon-Fri then played like a warrior on Sunday.


Seriously?

So you believe without the arrest, Baker, a former 1st round pick just one season into his NFL career, still would have been cut before participating in one training camp practice or one game snap taken with Joe Judge's Giants?

I strenuously disagree.


It's not an either-or discussion.

Baker was cut because he was in legal trouble AND he was slacking off on the field and in the offseason. Heck, he might have even been slacking off in conditioning - KC puts him in his only action of the season while they rest their starters and he breaks a leg on a non-contact play.

I doubt it was due to PR as much as it was due to the fact he was a player who didn't seemingly put the dedication in , had fallen out of favor with the staff, AND had a black cloud over him with legal issues. He wasn't going to be cut if he didn't get arrested, but it also wasn't done just for PR. what benefit does a team get for that kind of PR anyway?
Very well put FMiC.  
BelieveJJ : 1/13/2021 9:46 am : link
In colloquial terms, the arrest and legal issues were most likely the icing on the cake for Baker.
The PR backlash  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2021 9:51 am : link
that comes with an arrest in the court of public opinion.

Go back to the archived BBI thread, I guarantee you will see a ton of posters saying "you have to cut him immediately" - even before due process. Read the articles, I bet you see a lot of the same from beats and other reporters. It wasn't like Josh Brown for obvious reasons, but there was pressure I'm sure.

but...if saying he was cut for PR reasons is too limiting, then I'm find amending my position to say:

"If he wasn't arrested, he would not have been cut" as you said.

which is mainly my point.
RE: RE: RE: Baker  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/14/2021 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15120075 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 15120053 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15120046 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote: Beal, Ballentine.
The 3 amigos.//////////


That's what happens when you see a need and draft towards it. Get ready for more of that in the offensive skill positions this spring.

REVISION: That's what happens when you have a weak roster across multiple positions because of many years of poor drafting and feel like you have to plug the worst, first.
As vs, for example, Chiefs and Ravens, with strong rosters, can select specific types of players to plug into their systems and make the team stronger. We draft in the attempt to make the team less weak.

So missing on an entire cluster draft is the way to make the team less weak? Seems like an odd strategy.

Here's an alternative thought - what if a GM actually drafts good players instead? That seems like a more effective way to make the team less weak. I guess that's just my opinion though.

This bears repeating - the average NFL career is ~3 years. Meaning, after three years on the job now, DG would have more or less turned over the majority of the roster no matter what shape Reese left it in. And DG has done exactly that - he has turned over almost the entire roster. This team is the one he built, not the one he inherited.

It's time to stop giving DG a pass for the team because of Reese's mistakes, especially when it is largely DG's own mistakes that have then dictated subsequent moves (e.g, does DG draft Thomas if Solder didn't suck? Does he sign Martinez if Ogletree didn't suck?) that have reduced his ability to address other areas of the roster. And if DG's hand was truly as forced as you suggest, doesn't that emphasize further that he should have been pursuing trade down opportunities at any point that might have given him even more assets with which he could reinforce the foundation of the roster?

DG's own actions are not consistent with the excuses some fans want to make for him.
RE: Breaking down these picks  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/14/2021 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15120679 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
1. Ballantine , no issues, had the physical measurablea, 6th rd pick. DG has done well on late rd picks. Missing this one was only critical because baker and Beal.

I'm curious how you define "done well on late rd picks." Darius Slayton is a very good pick. Julian Love is decent. Lauletta was a bust, R.J. McIntosh didn't play at all this year. Corey Ballantine, George Asafo-Adjei, and Chris Slayton are gone already. Ryan Connelly looked promising, got hurt unfortunately, but then couldn't make the team this year - he only had 6 tackles in 14 games for Minnesota, is that because of the injury or is he just not as good as he looked in a short sample last year?

This past draft's late picks look mostly promising, but it's still too early IMO to hand out gold stars for those players after only one year (although they're definitely on a better trajectory than many of DG's previous late picks). If this year's class continues to improve and if that overall late round quality becomes the norm, I'll agree that it's a strength, but they're not the norm yet and they haven't done enough yet to erase the DG's first two years of later picks.

I just don't quite understand how this becomes a repeated thing when there isn't really any evidence to support that DG is any better than average with late round picks (in fairness, I don't think he's any worse than average either, but I'm not the one trying to claim it as a strength). Most late round picks flame out. Most of DG's late round picks have flamed out. It's not a criticism; this is just to say that there's not enough success in this area for anyone to claim that DG has done well with late round picks relative to the league in general.

In fairness, Reese had some notable late round hits early on, and then mostly stunk in his late round picks through the majority of his tenure. Is that why it seems to some fans that DG is good at those late picks? Sure, he's better than Reese thus far with his later picks. But not good enough on balance, IMO, to call it a strength just yet.
RE: Furthermore, the dummy comment was tongue in cheek  
short lease : 1/17/2021 12:47 am : link
In comment 15120691 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
and because short lease has been here for a bit, I assume he checked if I was correct and laughed it off.

Go trade up for Devonta Smith in Madden.


I did check - I guess when I read he was placed on IR in Sept 2019 I assumed it was season ending. I really do forget they have IR A and IR B and you can come back.

I promise you I NEVER make shit up to support an argument.

People who have wrong info should be and corrected. I thought the response was a little harsh but, I also know how hard it is to communicate through text alone. A harmless comment can come of a lot harder than intended without the benefit of facial expression or tone of voice.

We are talking about football here - I assumed chop was just breaking balls.


I still think he will not be on the roster next year.
; )
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