at #11 and he won't last to #42. Yes he is just the guy to replace DT if they cannot sign him and a likely upgrade.
Think he is rated #25 overall.
Bold statement before the combine....just saying. You know how these linemen can blow up the combine or blow the combine and then rise or fall.
I havent watched him play much to be fair.
Neither had I and I was impressed with what I saw. Next to Smith, he was the most standout player in that game.
As far as the combine, is that really going to show anymore than his game tape?
Does he fit what DG and likely JJ want in a DT/DE. It surely looks that way - a disrupted in the middle with pass rush ability. If he was Aaron Donaldesque then he'd be in play at #11. But is he at that level? I do not know.
at #11 and he won't last to #42. Yes he is just the guy to replace DT if they cannot sign him and a likely upgrade.
Think he is rated #25 overall.
Bold statement before the combine....just saying. You know how these linemen can blow up the combine or blow the combine and then rise or fall.
I havent watched him play much to be fair.
Neither had I and I was impressed with what I saw. Next to Smith, he was the most standout player in that game.
As far as the combine, is that really going to show anymore than his game tape?
Does he fit what DG and likely JJ want in a DT/DE. It surely looks that way - a disrupted in the middle with pass rush ability. If he was Aaron Donaldesque then he'd be in play at #11. But is he at that level? I do not know.
Wrll, it seems he checks the pass rush ability box.
The combine, yes, it'll make a difference if he puts up 225 24 times, has a terrific 3 cone, 10 yard split and moves well laterally. That is what we need from our DL if we have marginal speed rushers: strength, lateral quickness and the ability to close distance once he gets off a block. I would love to have 3 1st round quality DL for years. Hell yea.
Brown looked good towards the end. Im less enthised about Fackrell than others here (he was just "ok"....took very bad tackling angles) and this is just not the year to go high for edge. Solidify that DL.
Spice Girl receivers from Bama. I would be into Pitts I guess depending on the combine, but taking Barmore and having Dex, LW and Barmore for years with Hill and Johnson rotating in would be a smart use of a draft pick. I hate the small receiver idea, but love Bama DL!
Smith is special not sure what you don't see, but he glides and has that second burst. He is also a solid person off the field which matters to the Giant's. I like Pitts as well, but either way the Giants need talent on the outside for Jones
Is that the Giants will not be using the 11th overall pick on an OG.
It's not happening.
Chopper, why would you say "you're done with ignoring the lines?"
Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Dex, Hernandez, B.J. Hill...all third round or earlier draft picks in the last 3 drafts. That's not counting LoCarter, Ximines, or Lemieux (5th rounder), or the draft capital to acquire Williams, or the trade to acquire Zeitler, or giving out the huge contract to Solder, or extending Gates and making him the OC.
Nobody can say Gettleman has ignored the lines. He's made them the centerpiece of his roster building strategy. He has re-built both lines, actually, and he's done a great job there. All the current starters on both lines, which are becoming a strength for the team, were acquired mostly by using premium resources by Gettleman. With the exception of Tomlinson, drafted by Reese, of course.
Is that the Giants will not be using the 11th overall pick on an OG.
It's not happening.
Chopper, why would you say "you're done with ignoring the lines?"
Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Dex, Hernandez, B.J. Hill...all third round or earlier draft picks in the last 3 drafts. That's not counting LoCarter, Ximines, or Lemieux (5th rounder), or the draft capital to acquire Williams, or the trade to acquire Zeitler, or giving out the huge contract to Solder, or extending Gates and making him the OC.
Nobody can say Gettleman has ignored the lines. He's made them the centerpiece of his roster building strategy. He has re-built both lines, actually, and he's done a great job there. All the current starters on both lines, which are becoming a strength for the team, were acquired mostly by using premium resources by Gettleman. With the exception of Tomlinson, drafted by Reese, of course.
I think the starters at OL are set, btw.
Weird take. WH is done after next year and I dont think he should be back as a starter. Zeitler being cut saves us 12 million in cap. So yea, drafting possibly the best Guard in the draft might make sense.
We have a FA in Dalvin who will cost a bunch and we could replace him in rd 1 with a player with more pass rush.
So why would you ask me that question? Did you simply not know that WH is finishing his rookie contract next year, Zeits could save so much and then all we have is lemieux and Pulley for the most part? Did you find our OL dominant? Because I didnt.
A chance to plug either hole in the 1st round is a far better approach than drafting a WR under 200 lbs who "glides" in college.
Very Marc Ross take by you might say: draft the athletes, not the guys who win you games.
I don’t think so. Can he run routes? Get separation? Catch the ball? How about YAC?
If not, who is catching passes? Same guys we have now? LOL.
I guess free agency is a myth.
I love when know-nothing posters are super condescending about a draft approach they hadnt considered post dipshit stuff like above whom are clearly advocating not only a "draft for needs" mentality, but arent even in tune with the needs this team has.
Sure, lets draft a 180 lb receiver to be our savior.....ugh.
that Christian Barmore would be an upgrade over Dalvin Tomlinson...
Year one? FAlSE. Daron Payne is not a higher graded DT than Tomlinson, and he's in year 3. Payne was a similar, probably higher rated, prospect than Barmore.
Barmore will cost less than Tomlinson?
FALSE.
In actual dollars less, in the opportunity cost of draft capital, using a #11 overall pick on him is a very high cost indeed, for a player who in all liklihood won't be Tomlinson's equal for at least 1-2 years, if ever given bust rates...
I could go on, but the thread is about Barmore.
I do agree on Pitts at 11, posted a thread about wanting him. Pitts is a rare weapon, the Giants will be fortunate if he's still on the board at 11. And by replacing Evan Engram (if not in 2021 then certainly by 2022) Pitts not only adds a big ++ to the team, he helps remove a minus player. Addition by subtraction.
In any case, there's no FFFIN way the Giants spend pick #11 on Barmore. Evennif they let one of DT or LW walk.y
I like Barmore very much as a player. Would consider him at 42 if the Giants lose DT, but still he would be an immediate downgrade to Tomlinson year one, not an upgrade.
Get real.
Whereas any top WR would be a huge upgrade over Tate.
Is that the Giants will not be using the 11th overall pick on an OG.
It's not happening.
Chopper, why would you say "you're done with ignoring the lines?"
Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Dex, Hernandez, B.J. Hill...all third round or earlier draft picks in the last 3 drafts. That's not counting LoCarter, Ximines, or Lemieux (5th rounder), or the draft capital to acquire Williams, or the trade to acquire Zeitler, or giving out the huge contract to Solder, or extending Gates and making him the OC.
Nobody can say Gettleman has ignored the lines. He's made them the centerpiece of his roster building strategy. He has re-built both lines, actually, and he's done a great job there. All the current starters on both lines, which are becoming a strength for the team, were acquired mostly by using premium resources by Gettleman. With the exception of Tomlinson, drafted by Reese, of course.
I think the starters at OL are set, btw.
Weird take. WH is done after next year and I dont think he should be back as a starter. Zeitler being cut saves us 12 million in cap. So yea, drafting possibly the best Guard in the draft might make sense.
We have a FA in Dalvin who will cost a bunch and we could replace him in rd 1 with a player with more pass rush.
So why would you ask me that question? Did you simply not know that WH is finishing his rookie contract next year, Zeits could save so much and then all we have is lemieux and Pulley for the most part? Did you find our OL dominant? Because I didnt.
A chance to plug either hole in the 1st round is a far better approach than drafting a WR under 200 lbs who "glides" in college.
Very Marc Ross take by you might say: draft the athletes, not the guys who win you games.
I'm not necessarily advocating for the Bama receivers, but I've warmed to Smith if he's at 11. Just saying it won't be a OG in the first, and I wouldn't be so sure WH won't be back and also won't be the starter going forward. I'll admit that something seems off between him and the coaches, but there's still a long way to go and he's still a talented player. I could easily see h earning a contract with the Giants and being the starter in 2022 and beyond.
I like Barmore very much as a player. Would consider him at 42 if the Giants lose DT, but still he would be an immediate downgrade to Tomlinson year one, not an upgrade.
Get real.
Whereas any top WR would be a huge upgrade over Tate.
I would not be so dismissive of Barmore as an upgrade over Tomlinson. I am not for him at #11, but he seems to be much quicker than DT and much more of a pass rush disrupter.
I think Surtain or Farley are very much in play at #11, even more so then Pitts, Smith or Waddle.
Need to look at what JJ and Graham are trying to do.
Yes they need WRs that can actually scare the defense, and a TE that can catch and block. Those can be found in rounds 2 through 4.
that Christian Barmore would be an upgrade over Dalvin Tomlinson...
Year one? FAlSE. Daron Payne is not a higher graded DT than Tomlinson, and he's in year 3. Payne was a similar, probably higher rated, prospect than Barmore.
Barmore will cost less than Tomlinson?
FALSE.
In actual dollars less, in the opportunity cost of draft capital, using a #11 overall pick on him is a very high cost indeed, for a player who in all liklihood won't be Tomlinson's equal for at least 1-2 years, if ever given bust rates...
In any case, there's no FFFIN way the Giants spend pick #11 on Barmore. Evennif they let one of DT or LW walk.y
Blue Lou, you sure do come across as arrogant when you are talking about players you did half assed homework on.
First off, Payne was waaaaay over drafted...like a lot. He was drafted 13th overall but his college stats didnt even sniff Tomlinson's who was drafted 55th. Do you realize that in the last two years Barmore had more sacks than DT and DP COMBINED, as well as more tackles for a loss than the other two COMBINED? His numbers project closer to Quinnen Williams, not Dalvin and Daron. Plus he's 3 inches taller than both the other two. If he lights up the combine, he's likely a top ten pick.
As far as 1st rounder being more or as costly than resigning DT, thats just an absurd comment because of the 5th year. So if he picks up where DT left off, adds much needed pass rush to go with a re-signed LW and we have our D line locked up as a strength for at least the next 3/4 years, youre EFFIN right DG should take him.
You wanted pass rush, this guy rushes the fucking passer.
I like Barmore very much as a player. Would consider him at 42 if the Giants lose DT, but still he would be an immediate downgrade to Tomlinson year one, not an upgrade.
Get real.
Whereas any top WR would be a huge upgrade over Tate.
I would not be so dismissive of Barmore as an upgrade over Tomlinson. I am not for him at #11, but he seems to be much quicker than DT and much more of a pass rush disrupter.
I think Surtain or Farley are very much in play at #11, even more so then Pitts, Smith or Waddle.
Need to look at what JJ and Graham are trying to do.
Yes they need WRs that can actually scare the defense, and a TE that can catch and block. Those can be found in rounds 2 through 4.
Most of us project the highest hopes on our rookies... Then our feet settle back on the ground after we actually watch them play a bit in the NFL itself. Andrew Thomas was a stud in college, for three years in the SEC. DeAndre Baker was a lick diwn CB over two full seasons in the same SEC! TOMLINSON humself was a brick house on a far better Bama DL than Barmore was just now playing on.
Michael Strahan was mediocre, or worse, for something like 2 years...
I am definitely NOT "too dismissive" of what to expect from Barmore year one. His tape is not Aaron Donald in college.
Your expectation for him is unrealistic, we all do it.
The Donalds, LTs, JJ Watts, and OBJs of this world are few.
Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
Balmore wasn't a "game wrecking DL" for a lot of games this year. There is no doubt he looks the part, but I would question the consistency.
And while he played great on Monday, that OSU OL was very makeshift - due to injuries - and were rotating a freshman LT between LG and RG. Hell, on his last sack, Balmore was completely unblocked because one of the freshman Gs totally went the other way.
with Barmore. Actually surprised he is being mocked into first round but maybe this a weak DT class.
Nevertheless, I really would have expected the DL of Alabama to really dominate all year as teams had to pass to catch up or keep pace with them. But they really didn't do that or at least not consistently well.
My preference, but unless there is some big shakeup of DTs on the roster I don't want any Day 1 or Day 2 picks going to interior DL at all.
Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
RE: Good player but not sure there is anything special
Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
You would think most people would be on the same page on this.
17ppg in this era is embarrassing - let's be honest.
Oh I certainly am, but if Pitts is gone and there is no trade down available/executed, I would prefer the DL over Farley or the shrimpy WRs who scream "Im gonna get crushed" in the NFL. Tyreek Hill is a bad comparison for Waddle. Hill is fucking jacked for his size amd can jump through the roof.
RE: RE: Good player but not sure there is anything special
Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
You would think most people would be on the same page on this.
17ppg in this era is embarrassing - let's be honest.
Completely. If the offensive playmakers just underperformed there might be some debate, but they didn't. Having Saquon back if healthy adds something but they have to find other threats to stretch defenses in various ways.
btw - its 17.5 ppg. The extra half point is actually material when the overall total is that low.
RE: RE: RE: Good player but not sure there is anything special
Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
You would think most people would be on the same page on this.
17ppg in this era is embarrassing - let's be honest.
Completely. If the offensive playmakers just underperformed there might be some debate, but they didn't. Having Saquon back if healthy adds something but they have to find other threats to stretch defenses in various ways.
btw - its 17.5 ppg. The extra half point is actually material when the overall total is that low.
As disappointed as I was with the offensive performance, there is the matter of the line taking very long to come together, yes Saquon and the fact that we can likely get a WR in FA like Samuel with miney we would save from DT and a bigger target in the 2nd. Like I said, setting the DL for years with a guy like Barmore would be awesome. We have an upgraded scondary, having a DL and some speedy linebackers is a very New England style D.
I just am not sold on Pitts. As a TE, he doesnt seem strong enough. If he can put up Plax like measurable numbers, I would love him as a X.
Yeah, I agree with some of your points. Like you, I would rather
have a WR with some height and a larger frame over smaller, speed guys but that doesn't seem to align to #11. Maybe it fits the bill in some of the less dynamic Rd 2 guys.
I like Pitts a great deal with his size and hands, but not being even an average blocker really troubles me.
I cannot get my arms around picking some of these average Edge guys or adding more into the DT unit. Seems like we would be leaving value on the table.
I have no problem whatsoever of continuing to add into the Offensive Line. Despite BBI's fallacy views, the OL still need both more & better.
Giants will definitely need to grab an offensive playmaker in free agency as a hedge in case the draft winds up taking them elsewhere.
RE: Yeah, I agree with some of your points. Like you, I would rather
have a WR with some height and a larger frame over smaller, speed guys but that doesn't seem to align to #11. Maybe it fits the bill in some of the less dynamic Rd 2 guys.
I like Pitts a great deal with his size and hands, but not being even an average blocker really troubles me.
I cannot get my arms around picking some of these average Edge guys or adding more into the DT unit. Seems like we would be leaving value on the table.
I have no problem whatsoever of continuing to add into the Offensive Line. Despite BBI's fallacy views, the OL still need both more & better.
Giants will definitely need to grab an offensive playmaker in free agency as a hedge in case the draft winds up taking them elsewhere.
Well like I said, if he has Plax like quickness to go along with straight line, I dont care if he blocks as a TE...because he would be our TD getter.
As far as adding to the D line, its not just that. Those guys have been the heart and soul of our D for 2 years now. Keep in mind, that even Judge and Graham talk about being multiple, we generally line up in a 3 down lineman front. Right now our only way to enhanced pass rush option might be adding a 3-4 DE who has a penchant for getting after the QB and Barmore has shown that ability plenty.
This is all based on him having a good combine, but I would take him over the little WRs and Pitts (if he has a BAD combine).
Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
He has played for 2 years....first season 10 sacks, 2nd season he had 8 sacks in 11 games to go with 15.5 tackles for loss.
I am not sure what measurables he has, other than prototypical 3-4 DE height and weight. His drills are going to be interesting.
Again, a cost controlled dominant D line would solve a lot of problems.
Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
Barmore just doesn't feel/look like the 11th best player in the country to me. Yes, a bit of a shallow-type statement but I think the NY Giants need a little more "wow" factor this year. Otherwise, I would just default to upgrading the OL.
Year 4 of the David Gettleman Hog Mollie Marathon.
Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
Barmore just doesn't feel/look like the 11th best player in the country to me. Yes, a bit of a shallow-type statement but I think the NY Giants need a little more "wow" factor this year. Otherwise, I would just default to upgrading the OL.
Year 4 of the David Gettleman Hog Mollie Marathon.
Totally fair. I didnt consider it until the OP. Then I looked at his numbers and watched some highlights. But what if all the little ass receivers are gone as well as Surtain and Pitts?
Where is Toney, the WR from Florida, being drafted in some of the early projections?
Well given the fact that we have two very promising OTs and the fact that we could very well be losing a huge factor on our DL (I think Hill is also a UFA next year), need might likely fit BPA.
Again, the combine is a big deal for Barmore, but I think people are short changing how important keeping a dominant D line together is, especially when the next one could be longer and provide a BUNCH more pass rush.
I have to stop talking about it because now, dreams of 3 down linemen getting to the QB while we drop 8 in coverage are dancing in my head. Lol
Freshman last year and had 2 sacks, 6 TFL... To say he is trending upwards is an understatement. Again, let me see what a 6'5 311 lb guy moves like at the combine before I say he isnt worth 11.
Where is Toney, the WR from Florida, being drafted in some of the early projections?
Well given the fact that we have two very promising OTs and the fact that we could very well be losing a huge factor on our DL (I think Hill is also a UFA next year), need might likely fit BPA.
Again, the combine is a big deal for Barmore, but I think people are short changing how important keeping a dominant D line together is, especially when the next one could be longer and provide a BUNCH more pass rush.
I have to stop talking about it because now, dreams of 3 down linemen getting to the QB while we drop 8 in coverage are dancing in my head. Lol
We have Thomas. Peart is a tease right now to a bunch of fans yearning for promise at Tackle. Everybody else at OT is worthless.
I hope Peart becomes a contender but have no issue adding a 3rd young OT, even if for just the case that somebody goes down hard. Can’t just have an injury at OT shut down the team that scores a stunning 17.5 points per game.
But to your point, if the DL has turnover then I am fine bringing it into the mix. I just think Getts is to in bed with big Leonard to let that happen.
Or get a Center in free agency and move Gates to Right Guard. Lose Zeitler and that will help pay for LW so we can reconfigure the WR and TE units with this draft.
said on the Eisen podcast that Barmore is a bit of an enigma in that he has some tape where he was pretty invisible and other tape where he was dominating. Just going beyond the numbers here, Jeremiah seemed to think Barmore is not a top 15 pick, but more back-end of the first, early 2nd, IIRC. That said, it's too early in the process.
The combine should start to solidify things a bit more, if they even have a combine, because that's not a given.
Me personally, I think Barmore is going in the top 15. It only takes one team to buy-in and fall in love, and I think he has the physical attributes and production that will result in a team being aggressive for his services.
Quote:
at #11 and he won't last to #42. Yes he is just the guy to replace DT if they cannot sign him and a likely upgrade.
Think he is rated #25 overall.
Bold statement before the combine....just saying. You know how these linemen can blow up the combine or blow the combine and then rise or fall.
I havent watched him play much to be fair.
Neither had I and I was impressed with what I saw. Next to Smith, he was the most standout player in that game.
As far as the combine, is that really going to show anymore than his game tape?
Does he fit what DG and likely JJ want in a DT/DE. It surely looks that way - a disrupted in the middle with pass rush ability. If he was Aaron Donaldesque then he'd be in play at #11. But is he at that level? I do not know.
Quote:
In comment 15120747 section125 said:
Quote:
at #11 and he won't last to #42. Yes he is just the guy to replace DT if they cannot sign him and a likely upgrade.
Think he is rated #25 overall.
Bold statement before the combine....just saying. You know how these linemen can blow up the combine or blow the combine and then rise or fall.
I havent watched him play much to be fair.
Neither had I and I was impressed with what I saw. Next to Smith, he was the most standout player in that game.
As far as the combine, is that really going to show anymore than his game tape?
Does he fit what DG and likely JJ want in a DT/DE. It surely looks that way - a disrupted in the middle with pass rush ability. If he was Aaron Donaldesque then he'd be in play at #11. But is he at that level? I do not know.
Wrll, it seems he checks the pass rush ability box.
The combine, yes, it'll make a difference if he puts up 225 24 times, has a terrific 3 cone, 10 yard split and moves well laterally. That is what we need from our DL if we have marginal speed rushers: strength, lateral quickness and the ability to close distance once he gets off a block. I would love to have 3 1st round quality DL for years. Hell yea.
Brown looked good towards the end. Im less enthised about Fackrell than others here (he was just "ok"....took very bad tackling angles) and this is just not the year to go high for edge. Solidify that DL.
I am done with ignoring the lines. Him or Wyatt Davis at 11 would be fine by me.
Quote:
If you let DT walk. I am convinced we prioritize re-signing LW...Barmore would be an upgrade at a priority position that would cost lesst than DT.
I am done with ignoring the lines. Him or Wyatt Davis at 11 would be fine by me.
Wyatt Davis could be on the board when the Giants pick in the 2nd.
Really? Top Guard in the draft?
I guess I gotta wait and see.
Smith is special not sure what you don't see, but he glides and has that second burst. He is also a solid person off the field which matters to the Giant's. I like Pitts as well, but either way the Giants need talent on the outside for Jones
It's not happening.
Chopper, why would you say "you're done with ignoring the lines?"
Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Dex, Hernandez, B.J. Hill...all third round or earlier draft picks in the last 3 drafts. That's not counting LoCarter, Ximines, or Lemieux (5th rounder), or the draft capital to acquire Williams, or the trade to acquire Zeitler, or giving out the huge contract to Solder, or extending Gates and making him the OC.
Nobody can say Gettleman has ignored the lines. He's made them the centerpiece of his roster building strategy. He has re-built both lines, actually, and he's done a great job there. All the current starters on both lines, which are becoming a strength for the team, were acquired mostly by using premium resources by Gettleman. With the exception of Tomlinson, drafted by Reese, of course.
I think the starters at OL are set, btw.
It's not happening.
Chopper, why would you say "you're done with ignoring the lines?"
Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Dex, Hernandez, B.J. Hill...all third round or earlier draft picks in the last 3 drafts. That's not counting LoCarter, Ximines, or Lemieux (5th rounder), or the draft capital to acquire Williams, or the trade to acquire Zeitler, or giving out the huge contract to Solder, or extending Gates and making him the OC.
Nobody can say Gettleman has ignored the lines. He's made them the centerpiece of his roster building strategy. He has re-built both lines, actually, and he's done a great job there. All the current starters on both lines, which are becoming a strength for the team, were acquired mostly by using premium resources by Gettleman. With the exception of Tomlinson, drafted by Reese, of course.
I think the starters at OL are set, btw.
Weird take. WH is done after next year and I dont think he should be back as a starter. Zeitler being cut saves us 12 million in cap. So yea, drafting possibly the best Guard in the draft might make sense.
We have a FA in Dalvin who will cost a bunch and we could replace him in rd 1 with a player with more pass rush.
So why would you ask me that question? Did you simply not know that WH is finishing his rookie contract next year, Zeits could save so much and then all we have is lemieux and Pulley for the most part? Did you find our OL dominant? Because I didnt.
A chance to plug either hole in the 1st round is a far better approach than drafting a WR under 200 lbs who "glides" in college.
Very Marc Ross take by you might say: draft the athletes, not the guys who win you games.
If not, who is catching passes? Same guys we have now? LOL.
If not, who is catching passes? Same guys we have now? LOL.
I guess free agency is a myth.
I love when know-nothing posters are super condescending about a draft approach they hadnt considered post dipshit stuff like above whom are clearly advocating not only a "draft for needs" mentality, but arent even in tune with the needs this team has.
Sure, lets draft a 180 lb receiver to be our savior.....ugh.
Year one? FAlSE. Daron Payne is not a higher graded DT than Tomlinson, and he's in year 3. Payne was a similar, probably higher rated, prospect than Barmore.
Barmore will cost less than Tomlinson?
FALSE.
In actual dollars less, in the opportunity cost of draft capital, using a #11 overall pick on him is a very high cost indeed, for a player who in all liklihood won't be Tomlinson's equal for at least 1-2 years, if ever given bust rates...
I could go on, but the thread is about Barmore.
I do agree on Pitts at 11, posted a thread about wanting him. Pitts is a rare weapon, the Giants will be fortunate if he's still on the board at 11. And by replacing Evan Engram (if not in 2021 then certainly by 2022) Pitts not only adds a big ++ to the team, he helps remove a minus player. Addition by subtraction.
In any case, there's no FFFIN way the Giants spend pick #11 on Barmore. Evennif they let one of DT or LW walk.y
Get real.
Whereas any top WR would be a huge upgrade over Tate.
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Is that the Giants will not be using the 11th overall pick on an OG.
It's not happening.
Chopper, why would you say "you're done with ignoring the lines?"
Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Dex, Hernandez, B.J. Hill...all third round or earlier draft picks in the last 3 drafts. That's not counting LoCarter, Ximines, or Lemieux (5th rounder), or the draft capital to acquire Williams, or the trade to acquire Zeitler, or giving out the huge contract to Solder, or extending Gates and making him the OC.
Nobody can say Gettleman has ignored the lines. He's made them the centerpiece of his roster building strategy. He has re-built both lines, actually, and he's done a great job there. All the current starters on both lines, which are becoming a strength for the team, were acquired mostly by using premium resources by Gettleman. With the exception of Tomlinson, drafted by Reese, of course.
I think the starters at OL are set, btw.
Weird take. WH is done after next year and I dont think he should be back as a starter. Zeitler being cut saves us 12 million in cap. So yea, drafting possibly the best Guard in the draft might make sense.
We have a FA in Dalvin who will cost a bunch and we could replace him in rd 1 with a player with more pass rush.
So why would you ask me that question? Did you simply not know that WH is finishing his rookie contract next year, Zeits could save so much and then all we have is lemieux and Pulley for the most part? Did you find our OL dominant? Because I didnt.
A chance to plug either hole in the 1st round is a far better approach than drafting a WR under 200 lbs who "glides" in college.
Very Marc Ross take by you might say: draft the athletes, not the guys who win you games.
I'm not necessarily advocating for the Bama receivers, but I've warmed to Smith if he's at 11. Just saying it won't be a OG in the first, and I wouldn't be so sure WH won't be back and also won't be the starter going forward. I'll admit that something seems off between him and the coaches, but there's still a long way to go and he's still a talented player. I could easily see h earning a contract with the Giants and being the starter in 2022 and beyond.
Get real.
Whereas any top WR would be a huge upgrade over Tate.
I would not be so dismissive of Barmore as an upgrade over Tomlinson. I am not for him at #11, but he seems to be much quicker than DT and much more of a pass rush disrupter.
I think Surtain or Farley are very much in play at #11, even more so then Pitts, Smith or Waddle.
Need to look at what JJ and Graham are trying to do.
Yes they need WRs that can actually scare the defense, and a TE that can catch and block. Those can be found in rounds 2 through 4.
Year one? FAlSE. Daron Payne is not a higher graded DT than Tomlinson, and he's in year 3. Payne was a similar, probably higher rated, prospect than Barmore.
Barmore will cost less than Tomlinson?
FALSE.
In actual dollars less, in the opportunity cost of draft capital, using a #11 overall pick on him is a very high cost indeed, for a player who in all liklihood won't be Tomlinson's equal for at least 1-2 years, if ever given bust rates...
In any case, there's no FFFIN way the Giants spend pick #11 on Barmore. Evennif they let one of DT or LW walk.y
Blue Lou, you sure do come across as arrogant when you are talking about players you did half assed homework on.
First off, Payne was waaaaay over drafted...like a lot. He was drafted 13th overall but his college stats didnt even sniff Tomlinson's who was drafted 55th. Do you realize that in the last two years Barmore had more sacks than DT and DP COMBINED, as well as more tackles for a loss than the other two COMBINED? His numbers project closer to Quinnen Williams, not Dalvin and Daron. Plus he's 3 inches taller than both the other two. If he lights up the combine, he's likely a top ten pick.
As far as 1st rounder being more or as costly than resigning DT, thats just an absurd comment because of the 5th year. So if he picks up where DT left off, adds much needed pass rush to go with a re-signed LW and we have our D line locked up as a strength for at least the next 3/4 years, youre EFFIN right DG should take him.
You wanted pass rush, this guy rushes the fucking passer.
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I like Barmore very much as a player. Would consider him at 42 if the Giants lose DT, but still he would be an immediate downgrade to Tomlinson year one, not an upgrade.
Get real.
Whereas any top WR would be a huge upgrade over Tate.
I would not be so dismissive of Barmore as an upgrade over Tomlinson. I am not for him at #11, but he seems to be much quicker than DT and much more of a pass rush disrupter.
I think Surtain or Farley are very much in play at #11, even more so then Pitts, Smith or Waddle.
Need to look at what JJ and Graham are trying to do.
Yes they need WRs that can actually scare the defense, and a TE that can catch and block. Those can be found in rounds 2 through 4.
Most of us project the highest hopes on our rookies... Then our feet settle back on the ground after we actually watch them play a bit in the NFL itself. Andrew Thomas was a stud in college, for three years in the SEC. DeAndre Baker was a lick diwn CB over two full seasons in the same SEC! TOMLINSON humself was a brick house on a far better Bama DL than Barmore was just now playing on.
Michael Strahan was mediocre, or worse, for something like 2 years...
I am definitely NOT "too dismissive" of what to expect from Barmore year one. His tape is not Aaron Donald in college.
Your expectation for him is unrealistic, we all do it.
The Donalds, LTs, JJ Watts, and OBJs of this world are few.
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
Balmore wasn't a "game wrecking DL" for a lot of games this year. There is no doubt he looks the part, but I would question the consistency.
And while he played great on Monday, that OSU OL was very makeshift - due to injuries - and were rotating a freshman LT between LG and RG. Hell, on his last sack, Balmore was completely unblocked because one of the freshman Gs totally went the other way.
Assuming DT walks, a line of Williams, Dex and Shelvin would put a ton of pressure on the inside freeing up DE's, LB's etc.
Nevertheless, I really would have expected the DL of Alabama to really dominate all year as teams had to pass to catch up or keep pace with them. But they really didn't do that or at least not consistently well.
My preference, but unless there is some big shakeup of DTs on the roster I don't want any Day 1 or Day 2 picks going to interior DL at all.
Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
You would think most people would be on the same page on this.
17ppg in this era is embarrassing - let's be honest.
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Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
You would think most people would be on the same page on this.
17ppg in this era is embarrassing - let's be honest.
Oh I certainly am, but if Pitts is gone and there is no trade down available/executed, I would prefer the DL over Farley or the shrimpy WRs who scream "Im gonna get crushed" in the NFL. Tyreek Hill is a bad comparison for Waddle. Hill is fucking jacked for his size amd can jump through the roof.
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Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
You would think most people would be on the same page on this.
17ppg in this era is embarrassing - let's be honest.
Completely. If the offensive playmakers just underperformed there might be some debate, but they didn't. Having Saquon back if healthy adds something but they have to find other threats to stretch defenses in various ways.
btw - its 17.5 ppg. The extra half point is actually material when the overall total is that low.
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In comment 15121359 LBH15 said:
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Good lord, the Giants have to find somebody that can score some points first.
You would think most people would be on the same page on this.
17ppg in this era is embarrassing - let's be honest.
Completely. If the offensive playmakers just underperformed there might be some debate, but they didn't. Having Saquon back if healthy adds something but they have to find other threats to stretch defenses in various ways.
btw - its 17.5 ppg. The extra half point is actually material when the overall total is that low.
As disappointed as I was with the offensive performance, there is the matter of the line taking very long to come together, yes Saquon and the fact that we can likely get a WR in FA like Samuel with miney we would save from DT and a bigger target in the 2nd. Like I said, setting the DL for years with a guy like Barmore would be awesome. We have an upgraded scondary, having a DL and some speedy linebackers is a very New England style D.
I just am not sold on Pitts. As a TE, he doesnt seem strong enough. If he can put up Plax like measurable numbers, I would love him as a X.
I like Pitts a great deal with his size and hands, but not being even an average blocker really troubles me.
I cannot get my arms around picking some of these average Edge guys or adding more into the DT unit. Seems like we would be leaving value on the table.
I have no problem whatsoever of continuing to add into the Offensive Line. Despite BBI's fallacy views, the OL still need both more & better.
Giants will definitely need to grab an offensive playmaker in free agency as a hedge in case the draft winds up taking them elsewhere.
I like Pitts a great deal with his size and hands, but not being even an average blocker really troubles me.
I cannot get my arms around picking some of these average Edge guys or adding more into the DT unit. Seems like we would be leaving value on the table.
I have no problem whatsoever of continuing to add into the Offensive Line. Despite BBI's fallacy views, the OL still need both more & better.
Giants will definitely need to grab an offensive playmaker in free agency as a hedge in case the draft winds up taking them elsewhere.
Well like I said, if he has Plax like quickness to go along with straight line, I dont care if he blocks as a TE...because he would be our TD getter.
As far as adding to the D line, its not just that. Those guys have been the heart and soul of our D for 2 years now. Keep in mind, that even Judge and Graham talk about being multiple, we generally line up in a 3 down lineman front. Right now our only way to enhanced pass rush option might be adding a 3-4 DE who has a penchant for getting after the QB and Barmore has shown that ability plenty.
This is all based on him having a good combine, but I would take him over the little WRs and Pitts (if he has a BAD combine).
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
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Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
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In comment 15121219 chopperhatch said:
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Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
He has played for 2 years....first season 10 sacks, 2nd season he had 8 sacks in 11 games to go with 15.5 tackles for loss.
I am not sure what measurables he has, other than prototypical 3-4 DE height and weight. His drills are going to be interesting.
Again, a cost controlled dominant D line would solve a lot of problems.
Haha, ok Giant John!
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In comment 15121219 chopperhatch said:
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Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
Barmore just doesn't feel/look like the 11th best player in the country to me. Yes, a bit of a shallow-type statement but I think the NY Giants need a little more "wow" factor this year. Otherwise, I would just default to upgrading the OL.
Year 4 of the David Gettleman Hog Mollie Marathon.
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In comment 15121660 DavidinBMNY said:
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In comment 15121219 chopperhatch said:
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Now we shouldnt draft a potentially game wrecking DL because he might not be Aaron Donald?
Or maybe we should draft him because he wont be Dewayne Robertson.
I literally have not heard this guy's name called out. With all the Alabama talent I have heard lots of names multiple times like Waddle, Smith, Jones, Surtain, Moses, Leatherwood, etc. I'm afraid that if this guy had 1 or 2 great games when the lights were shining bright on him, that he has what it takes to be in it for the grind. I don't know anything about this kid, but my first question is, if he is this good why isn't this a week in , week out thing?
Barmore was a four star kid out of Philly. Pretty good hype. Up until this year, and even during the early phases of this year, Barmore was essentially part of the rotating line. But he's worked his way into the line-up as a starter and really played well the in F4.
So it's not like he has the consistently good body of work.
Has the measurables for sure...but you are hoping the best is yet to come...
Barmore just doesn't feel/look like the 11th best player in the country to me. Yes, a bit of a shallow-type statement but I think the NY Giants need a little more "wow" factor this year. Otherwise, I would just default to upgrading the OL.
Year 4 of the David Gettleman Hog Mollie Marathon.
Totally fair. I didnt consider it until the OP. Then I looked at his numbers and watched some highlights. But what if all the little ass receivers are gone as well as Surtain and Pitts?
Where is Toney, the WR from Florida, being drafted in some of the early projections?
Where is Toney, the WR from Florida, being drafted in some of the early projections?
Well given the fact that we have two very promising OTs and the fact that we could very well be losing a huge factor on our DL (I think Hill is also a UFA next year), need might likely fit BPA.
Again, the combine is a big deal for Barmore, but I think people are short changing how important keeping a dominant D line together is, especially when the next one could be longer and provide a BUNCH more pass rush.
I have to stop talking about it because now, dreams of 3 down linemen getting to the QB while we drop 8 in coverage are dancing in my head. Lol
He has played for 2 years....first season 10 sacks, 2nd season he had 8 sacks in 11 games to go with 15.5 tackles for loss.
I am not sure what measurables he has, other than prototypical 3-4 DE height and weight. His drills are going to be interesting.
Again, a cost controlled dominant D line would solve a lot of problems.
Barmore had 10 sacks last in 2019? I think he had maybe 2 or 3...tops...?
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He has played for 2 years....first season 10 sacks, 2nd season he had 8 sacks in 11 games to go with 15.5 tackles for loss.
I am not sure what measurables he has, other than prototypical 3-4 DE height and weight. His drills are going to be interesting.
Again, a cost controlled dominant D line would solve a lot of problems.
Barmore had 10 sacks last in 2019? I think he had maybe 2 or 3...tops...?
No no...he had 8 in 11 games this year, and 2 last year
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and next best CBs (after Surtain).
Where is Toney, the WR from Florida, being drafted in some of the early projections?
Well given the fact that we have two very promising OTs and the fact that we could very well be losing a huge factor on our DL (I think Hill is also a UFA next year), need might likely fit BPA.
Again, the combine is a big deal for Barmore, but I think people are short changing how important keeping a dominant D line together is, especially when the next one could be longer and provide a BUNCH more pass rush.
I have to stop talking about it because now, dreams of 3 down linemen getting to the QB while we drop 8 in coverage are dancing in my head. Lol
We have Thomas. Peart is a tease right now to a bunch of fans yearning for promise at Tackle. Everybody else at OT is worthless.
I hope Peart becomes a contender but have no issue adding a 3rd young OT, even if for just the case that somebody goes down hard. Can’t just have an injury at OT shut down the team that scores a stunning 17.5 points per game.
But to your point, if the DL has turnover then I am fine bringing it into the mix. I just think Getts is to in bed with big Leonard to let that happen.
He opted out, but Rashawn Slater of Northwestern is a very good T prospect.
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Worth 11? I havent heard of any other Sewell. I thought Leatherwood would be in plays, but apparently he is an extreme reach there.
He opted out, but Rashawn Slater of Northwestern is a very good T prospect.
Well he is a guy I heard about, but dont know if he is a more pragmatic use of 11 than Barmore when Peart is still highly thought of.
I will shelve this until FA and the combine, but the DL might be the BPA come April.
Not really in tuned yet with Draft prospects but assume every draft has a few OTs and a top Guard that make it into the top 15.
I probably watched less college football this year than last 10 years. Need a few weeks to look at the candidates.
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Worth 11? I havent heard of any other Sewell. I thought Leatherwood would be in plays, but apparently he is an extreme reach there.
Not really in tuned yet with Draft prospects but assume every draft has a few OTs and a top Guard that make it into the top 15.
I probably watched less college football this year than last 10 years. Need a few weeks to look at the candidates.
I have mentioned that I love Davis as an option at Guard. We need at least one of those too.
Maybe.
The combine should start to solidify things a bit more, if they even have a combine, because that's not a given.
Me personally, I think Barmore is going in the top 15. It only takes one team to buy-in and fall in love, and I think he has the physical attributes and production that will result in a team being aggressive for his services.