Most of this is my opinion
As GM of both the Panthers and the Giants (8 seasons) Dave Gettleman has only drafted 3 wrs:
With Carolina
2014 #28 overall Kelvin Benjamin (BUST)
2017 #40 overall Curtis Samuel (Ok player)
With Giants
2019 #171 overall Darius Slayton.
In that same span he has drafted 7 Defensive Tackles 4 of which are either 1st or 2nd rounders.
I do think that Jamarr Chase will fall out of the top 10. I think that 3 qbs, Sewell, Pitts, Surtain, Smith, Parsons Waddel (Someone will fall in love with his speed, hell Raiders took Ruggs over CeeDee) and one of the ER Paye or Roussau will all go in the top 10. Leaving us with a chance to get Chase.
My nightmare is that he reach for a DT this year at 11. Especially if we lose Tomlinson. I also have a feeling he will cluster draft wrs the way he did with lbers this year (4) and hope one or two turns out to be an eventual starter.
I know that he loves his Dline depth and I am ok with drafting a DT if this draft had a Derrick Brown or a Quinnen Williams or a Aaron Donald but I don't think it does. Alabama's Barmore may be the best DT and he is a late round pick at best. I would be ok with a DT if we traded back and got another 2nd round and more, but not at 11.
Would love any insight.
Came back the next year and had 750 yards and 7 TD's.
Then he was traded to Buffalo the following season.
If so, I wouldn't put much stock in DG's draft history assuming the board is set up with much greater influence from Judge than DG. If Judge likes one of these WRs and they are available in the first, let's hope that is the decision made.
NKeal Harry with the last pick of the 1st. Jones is not Brady though.
I agree Benjamin was not a bust.
i think dex takes a nice jump next season. he basically maintained his level of play from his rookie season which is good.
He wasn't bad at drafting either if I recall. Got some damn good DTs high (I don't know why that's a complaint. I guess they aren't as sexy). Also, got some real good OL later in the draft and UDFA. Norwell, Williams, Turner. Plus drafted Bradberry in the 2nd, Short in the 2nd.
Any other WRs that this thread missed?
From the small amount of data you provided, along with the selection of Thomas at 4 overall and Hernandez at 34, I would suggest DG subscribes to George Young's "Planet Theory", ie that really good big men to play on the LOS are more rare than really good players at the WR position.
More than that I can't pull anything out of DG's draft history, and honestly even that is a huge stretch given the lack of raw data.
In other words, you're barking up a tree with too few limbs to climb.
In 2015, Shaq Thompson has been solid. Funchess was poor. But Daryl Willims in the 4th was a find and Mayo in the 5th was better than average. Cameron Artis-Payne in the 5th performed average for that slot
In 2014, Benjamin was good for the Panthers, Kony Ealy was below average, but Trai Turner and Tre Boston were above average and Bene Benikwere in the 5th was a good find
Any other WRs that this thread missed?
Also of note is that the Panthers drafted Moore in first round in 2018, the year after DG was fired.
And Samuels and Slayton not at all big, but both serious track guys and sub 4.4 40s?
Could be a pattern?
Quote:
by Panthers.
Any other WRs that this thread missed?
Also of note is that the Panthers drafted Moore in first round in 2018, the year after DG was fired.
Something for you to look firward to?
🤔
Quote:
by Panthers.
Any other WRs that this thread missed?
Also of note is that the Panthers drafted Moore in first round in 2018, the year after DG was fired.
Yes. And Moore and 7th rounder Terry Godwin in 2019 were the only two WR's picked since he left
Came back the next year and had 750 yards and 7 TD's.
Then he was traded to Buffalo the following season.
I don’t know how you don’t call Kelvin a bust. Honestly him and Baker are good examples of maybe not completely relying on what the tape is telling you and pay attention to those character concerns. Seems to draft guys with questionable work ethics that put out good college tape. I mean according to the rumblings you can add Sam Beal to that list. This really seems to be a recurring them with him. Had a chance for an out on the Tate contract, same deal he was good on tape that year in the program so why cut him? I feel like if you’ve been around football as long as he has he should have seen this coming this year.
His career was not that of a 1st round pick, but for the Panthers he was fine for them. The Bills and Chiefs don't think he was too good for them.
I think is also true that you need a stud playmaker on offense and defense to compete for a Super Bowl. If dominant OLines won anything of consequence Dallas would have lots of hardware in the last 5-6 years.
I think at number 11 a top WR is most needed. However, if they have a higher grade on a CB or ER, then take the CB or ER and hope a good WR can be had in the 2nd or 3rd round.
I can't see that happening. First of all we're fresh off the season so other players are hot, but Chase may wind up evaluated as a top 5 talent, none of the DTs will have his grade.
Also keep in mind that the worse offense he had in Carolina scored 56 more points than we did this year, meaning he never went into an offseason with an offense that needed to be fixed this badly.
Quote:
In comment 15121377 LBH15 said:
Quote:
by Panthers.
Any other WRs that this thread missed?
Also of note is that the Panthers drafted Moore in first round in 2018, the year after DG was fired.
Something for you to look firward to?
🤔
I look forward to the Giants winning again. We all have our crosses to bear, DG just happens to be one.
Quote:
was better because of Judge's influence over DG are correct. If so, I wouldn't put much stock in DG's draft history assuming the board is set up with much greater influence from Judge than DG. If Judge likes one of these WRs and they are available in the first, let's hope that is the decision made.
So yeah let's assume every good decision is made by Judge and every bad decision is made by Gettleman. We can never lose an argument that way!
Gettleman made bad decisions in 2018 and 2019. The posters on this board defending him point to 2020 being significantly better. What is the difference?
Pat Shurmur (2018 and 2019) vs. Joe Judge (2020).
So if you want to blame the bad decisions it would be fair to criticize Shurmur/Gettleman and then praise Judge/Gettleman.
It is no secret - the Giants have been clear the coach and GM work closely together.
Quote:
In comment 15121350 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
was better because of Judge's influence over DG are correct. If so, I wouldn't put much stock in DG's draft history assuming the board is set up with much greater influence from Judge than DG. If Judge likes one of these WRs and they are available in the first, let's hope that is the decision made.
So yeah let's assume every good decision is made by Judge and every bad decision is made by Gettleman. We can never lose an argument that way!
Gettleman made bad decisions in 2018 and 2019. The posters on this board defending him point to 2020 being significantly better. What is the difference?
Pat Shurmur (2018 and 2019) vs. Joe Judge (2020).
So if you want to blame the bad decisions it would be fair to criticize Shurmur/Gettleman and then praise Judge/Gettleman.
It is no secret - the Giants have been clear the coach and GM work closely together.
At the end of 2018 season it looked like 2018 draft was very good.. at the end of 2019 that draft looked even better.. so lets not act like the only difference is the HC..
Quote:
by Panthers.
Any other WRs that this thread missed?
Also of note is that the Panthers drafted Moore in first round in 2018, the year after DG was fired.
Guess what...that has NOTHING to do with DG.
Quote:
In comment 15121377 LBH15 said:
Quote:
by Panthers.
Any other WRs that this thread missed?
Also of note is that the Panthers drafted Moore in first round in 2018, the year after DG was fired.
Guess what...that has NOTHING to do with DG.
I was just trying to suggest that WR was determined to be pretty important to the Panthers just a season after shedding DG. The Draft is about tough choices...some fill holes and some find players.
Did you want to take this further?
Anyway, all that to say, DG is looking for playmakers and everyone assumes he’s talking WR... that could be or maybe not... he also selected Mccaffrey 8th overall, ahead of that draft class’ speed demon John Ross who went 9th to the Bengals. (No one in this class is running 4.2 that includes Waddle; so let’s assume DG isn’t as blinded by speed as say the Raiders) That being said, there’s a tight end down in Florida that is a 6” 6’ matchup nightmare because he truly is the JPP of tight ends. He would be a prototypical DG “playmaker.” Personally I’d love one of Rashawn Slater or Wyatt Davis.
Why? Because he fits your profile of a future All Pro, or are you filling holes like Getts?
i think dex takes a nice jump next season. he basically maintained his level of play from his rookie season which is good.
No, it doesnt make sense that you are classifying Barmore as a DT. The guy has Buckner size, had 8 sacks in 11 games and is a 3-4 DE with pass rush ability.
Barmore should be compared to L. Williams and Q. Williams coming out, because that is how athletic he is. FYI, Barmore is the same height but 15 lbs heavier than Leonard. His combine is a must watch. I absolitely take him after resigning L Dub.
Probably the only receiver I would be comfortable taking in the first. But it is a VERY deep draft at WR.
Quote:
wasn't a bust with the Panthers. His rookie season was over 1,000 yards and 9 TD's. Then he missed a year with a knee injury.
Came back the next year and had 750 yards and 7 TD's.
Then he was traded to Buffalo the following season.
I don’t know how you don’t call Kelvin a bust. Honestly him and Baker are good examples of maybe not completely relying on what the tape is telling you and pay attention to those character concerns. Seems to draft guys with questionable work ethics that put out good college tape. I mean according to the rumblings you can add Sam Beal to that list. This really seems to be a recurring them with him. Had a chance for an out on the Tate contract, same deal he was good on tape that year in the program so why cut him? I feel like if you’ve been around football as long as he has he should have seen this coming this year.
There's unlucky busts then there's busts where the decision making process is simply flawed (whether it be character, talent or fit). If a guy exhibits talent then gets injured to the point they're no longer effective or viable going forward then sure the pick is a bust, but it's difficult to put that blame on the decision maker.
Benjamin clearly had a level of NFL talent as his rookie season suggests (over 1000 yards and 9 td is an great rookie season even by todays standards for a first round WR), but he had marginal separation ability (he was a big enough contested catch guy that his 4.6 speed wasn't too bad) before his knee injury, and while he accumulated stats post ACL his 3rd season was a clear drop off (still nearly 1000 yards and he was a bit of a malcontent. In Buffalo, he kept on injuring the knee he tore the ACL on further limiting his ability to gain any separation to the point he was rarely in position to even properly contest catches (his catch rate went from very good his first season to one of the worst in the league).
Not to mention he is almost identical in size to Hakeem Nicks. I would absolutely take Chase at 11.
If we find a WR in FA, take Pitts
If we don’t find a WR in FA, take Bateman
31st in offense is my reply to any defender anyone know this board wants to suggest. You don’t need a special D in this NFL, you do need a special offense. Our D can get stops. Upgrade the corner opposite Bradberry which is a low bar.
All other major assets aside from paying Williams and Tomlinson need to go to the offense. Cut all spare parts like Tate and Solder to open up cap space. Extend Zeitler to lower his cap #. I’d shop Hernandez for more draft ammo.
Quote:
relax dude. I’m just saying it would be very hard to pass on that guy. He’s 20 years old an dominated the SEC.
Not to mention he is almost identical in size to Hakeem Nicks. I would absolutely take Chase at 11.
I am big fan of Chase as well. But saying on Jan 13 its certain the Giants would take him sounds silly.
Its certain you would take him.
If we find a WR in FA, take Pitts
If we don’t find a WR in FA, take Bateman
31st in offense is my reply to any defender anyone know this board wants to suggest. You don’t need a special D in this NFL, you do need a special offense. Our D can get stops. Upgrade the corner opposite Bradberry which is a low bar.
All other major assets aside from paying Williams and Tomlinson need to go to the offense. Cut all spare parts like Tate and Solder to open up cap space. Extend Zeitler to lower his cap #. I’d shop Hernandez for more draft ammo.
Doooooood, you are so badass! You got this all figured out bruh. I mean, yah, lets go ahead and extend a 31 year old Guard already showing signs of decline. And yea! Let's cut Aolder and eat 10.5 mill in dead cap when we are going to need a 3rd quality Tackle any way! Yea! And and....wide receivers are what makes offenses go fast, so lets draft one...or another pass receiving TE at 11 in a very deep draft class and ignore adding pieces to our defense!
So glad for your insight brah.
How does a prize WR recruit from southern Georgia not get swallowed up by the SEC schools and finds his way to Minn?
Is he a first rounder...again #11 seems a stretch?
Quote:
Chase and Smith will be gone.
If we find a WR in FA, take Pitts
If we don’t find a WR in FA, take Bateman
31st in offense is my reply to any defender anyone know this board wants to suggest. You don’t need a special D in this NFL, you do need a special offense. Our D can get stops. Upgrade the corner opposite Bradberry which is a low bar.
All other major assets aside from paying Williams and Tomlinson need to go to the offense. Cut all spare parts like Tate and Solder to open up cap space. Extend Zeitler to lower his cap #. I’d shop Hernandez for more draft ammo.
Doooooood, you are so badass! You got this all figured out bruh. I mean, yah, lets go ahead and extend a 31 year old Guard already showing signs of decline. And yea! Let's cut Aolder and eat 10.5 mill in dead cap when we are going to need a 3rd quality Tackle any way! Yea! And and....wide receivers are what makes offenses go fast, so lets draft one...or another pass receiving TE at 11 in a very deep draft class and ignore adding pieces to our defense!
So glad for your insight brah.
1) Zeitler is our best Olineman(best as in # 1 out of 5)
2) We save 6.5 cutting Solder
3) WRs are what we need, we aren’t starting from scratch here “brah”
4) 31st in offense