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some Dolphin players not happy with Tua?

Mike in St. Louis : 1/13/2021 3:12 pm
if true, could mean trouble brewing in Miami...

"Miami Herald columnist Armando Salguero spoke to three Dolphins players who spoke anonymously about Tagovailoa and the organization’s decision to name him the starter for 2021, and they expressed doubt about Tagovailoa’s overall talent and his ability to develop into what the team needs him to be: a top-tier quarterback."

I haven't heard or seen anything that the Giants players are not on board with Jones...
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Saquads  
Go Terps : 1/13/2021 9:48 pm : link
Seriously what was your previous handle? I'm really curious.
Tua's best attribute is his accuracy.  
markky : 1/13/2021 10:04 pm : link
it's way too early to say what he'll be as a QB in the NFL.
Could  
Toth029 : 1/13/2021 10:14 pm : link
Daniel Jones have won if he went 12-22, 93 yards, a lost fumble and one TD drive? 145 total yards on offense. Longest drive was 33 yards.

No. The Dolphins beat the Rams like that though.
RE: RE: If you get 60 people  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/13/2021 10:21 pm : link
In comment 15121452 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15121447 HomerJones45 said:


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and ask for opinions, you are bound to find some differences of opinion. I am sure there are other people in that locker room who believe Tua is a fine young man with lots of promise.

Pot. Meet kettle



It's strange that you find a counter-balance with teams not named the Giants, but when it comes to us, you have no such view.

I doubt if there was a thread about Giant players being unhappy with Jones that you'd have any comment about the flip side. Heck, it would probably just turn into a rant about ownership fucking things up again!
Russell Wilson was talked down by several Seahawks  
ATL_Giants : 1/13/2021 10:34 pm : link
players.
They left the team, Wilson went on to be great.
Drama  
Dragon : 1/13/2021 11:19 pm : link
It’s all about wins if Tua can lead the team to wins who gives a shit what the players or media says? Look quit comparing teams and QB’s Jones on that Miami team may not produce Herbert type numbers but he sure would have provided more excitement. When our Giants won a few games everything was right in the world and they deserved to make the playoffs but got robbed. Just win every other drama goes away Tua like Jones has to win forget all the other dramas.
RE: Could  
GoDeep13 : 1/14/2021 2:19 am : link
In comment 15121851 Toth029 said:
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Daniel Jones have won if he went 12-22, 93 yards, a lost fumble and one TD drive? 145 total yards on offense. Longest drive was 33 yards.

No. The Dolphins beat the Rams like that though.
are you really gonna hold not being able to light up the Rams defense against Tua? That defense has been lights out this year. He didn’t even have Devante Parker who is his only legitimate weapon! And Giants beat the Seahawks with Colt McCoy giving a similar performance. You aren’t gonna win every game in the NFL the same.

You gonna give him props for almost beating the Chiefs with no running game, throwing for over 300 yards and 2 TDs with Lynn Bowden as his top WR?

Give the kid time.
RE: RE: Could  
GoDeep13 : 1/14/2021 2:21 am : link
In comment 15121897 GoDeep13 said:
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In comment 15121851 Toth029 said:


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Daniel Jones have won if he went 12-22, 93 yards, a lost fumble and one TD drive? 145 total yards on offense. Longest drive was 33 yards.

No. The Dolphins beat the Rams like that though.

are you really gonna hold not being able to light up the Rams defense against Tua? That defense has been lights out this year. He didn’t even have Devante Parker who is his only legitimate weapon! And Giants beat the Seahawks with Colt McCoy giving a similar performance. You aren’t gonna win every game in the NFL the same.

You gonna give him props for almost beating the Chiefs with no running game, throwing for over 300 yards and 2 TDs with Lynn Bowden as his top WR?

Give the kid time.
make that 3 TDs vs the Chiefs because he also had one rushing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: People act as if he played as poorly as Daniel Jones or something  
averagejoe : 1/14/2021 8:15 am : link
In comment 15121735 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15121732 section125 said:


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In comment 15121704 Go Terps said:


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In comment 15121620 section125 said:


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In comment 15121453 Greg from LI said:


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He didn't. He was worse. Terps is right, I never got it with him. Better than Hurts, yes.

Whatever. Hope he has a good career.



Tua was better than Jones by a bit. Jones was horrendous.



No he wasn't. Had Fitz stayed at QB, the Dolphins make the playoffs. Flores screwed up. Tua was awful anytime I was watched a Dolphins game.



The numbers say otherwise.

I agree Tua stunk, but Jones was even worse. Go look at the pro football reference page. It's all there.


In his first year under Shurmur Jones was impressive before regressing under Garrett. When has Tua impressed anybody ?
RE: Drama  
UConn4523 : 1/14/2021 8:52 am : link
In comment 15121880 Dragon said:
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It’s all about wins if Tua can lead the team to wins who gives a shit what the players or media says? Look quit comparing teams and QB’s Jones on that Miami team may not produce Herbert type numbers but he sure would have provided more excitement. When our Giants won a few games everything was right in the world and they deserved to make the playoffs but got robbed. Just win every other drama goes away Tua like Jones has to win forget all the other dramas.


That’s an extreme oversimplification. Of course wins matter but “drama” happens and prevents wins, we see it all the time. I don’t know why people think distractions don’t exist. You are talking about 50+ guys all with different personalities and making wildly different amounts of money. Jealousy, egos, etc are all issues on every team and how it’s handled often leads to cohesion or dysfunction.

The giants example doesn’t make sense. We overachieved and the games we lost weren’t due to turmoil amongst the players - they just didn’t have the horses. When we won we felt unity because our HC exudes how important that is with every fiber of his being.

In sum, Tua came in with a lot of hype and didn’t really do much. Wasn’t awful but wasn’t good either. I never understood the “tank for tua” crap we read on BBI, never liked his size/injury history and I suspect that will impact his pro career. He’s a good kid though so I hope he does well, but I wouldn’t feel confident if I was a Dolphins fan.
The denigration of Tua's performance and talent has been puzzling....  
BurberryManning : 1/14/2021 11:08 am : link
Tua is not a quarterback that possesses elite physical talents that indicate some cursory level of a performance floor, rather his game is more cerebral and his success will depend on his development between the ears. He has what I would argue is an above average arm, above average quick-twitch, and below average size. I suppose that he may have elite accuracy, as indicated by his collegiate career and flashes during his short stint in Miami, but the point remains that he will not jump off of the screen as a Herbert, Allen, Kyler, etc will.

I would imagine that the mental aspect of quarterbacking comes later in the evolutionary process for young signal callers so I wouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions after nine starting assignments.

With that said, Tua's production wasn't as dreadful as some would lead you to believe. If I told you that a 22 year old quarterback went 6-3 with an 11:5 ratio and 1800 yards to go along with a 64% completion percentage and a few scores on the ground in his first nine starts, I think most of us would consider it a tentatively positive sign for things to come.

If I added further context that the player was about a year removed from major surgery, operated under an OC that explicitly implemented a sheltered playbook, and had a supporting cast of three rookie starting lineman and perhaps the worst collection of skill players in the NFL...you'd probably be even more impressed with that production. Tua certainly did not light the NFL on fire and he was very reliant on check downs but prior to the Buffalo game to end the season you saw a QB that protected the ball (11:2 at that point) and played within the confines of a conservative system.

Was Justin Herbert better? Of course (although Tua did outplay him and beat him in their matchup this season), I don't think many would argue that Herbert would go higher in a redraft. However, Herberts extraordinary rookie success isn't a death knell for other QBs that didn't ascend as rapidly.

RE: The denigration of Tua's performance and talent has been puzzling....  
BurberryManning : 1/14/2021 11:11 am : link
In comment 15122185 BurberryManning said:
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Was Justin Herbert better? Of course (although Tua did outplay him and beat him in their matchup this season), I don't think many would argue that Herbert would go higher in a redraft.
*wouldn't
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: People act as if he played as poorly as Daniel Jones or something  
Go Terps : 1/14/2021 11:22 am : link
In comment 15121921 averagejoe said:
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In comment 15121732 section125 said:


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He didn't. He was worse. Terps is right, I never got it with him. Better than Hurts, yes.

Whatever. Hope he has a good career.



Tua was better than Jones by a bit. Jones was horrendous.



No he wasn't. Had Fitz stayed at QB, the Dolphins make the playoffs. Flores screwed up. Tua was awful anytime I was watched a Dolphins game.



The numbers say otherwise.

I agree Tua stunk, but Jones was even worse. Go look at the pro football reference page. It's all there.



In his first year under Shurmur Jones was impressive before regressing under Garrett. When has Tua impressed anybody ?


I guess that depends on your definition of impressive. I don't agree.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/14/2021 11:34 am : link
BM, Tua looked like he could be a starter. I didn't really see elite potential, but I think you raise good points. It was a promising year. The other thing I'd add is Fitzpatrick had 2 more TDs in 2 less starts (although I think he got an extra half or two in there), so it's not like the offense was explosive before Tua entered.

I think Tua had a far superior year to Jones - I watched all of Jones' starts other than the first half of AZ and about 4 of Tua's.
I agree with Burberry  
Greg from LI : 1/14/2021 11:51 am : link
The knock on Tua is that he didn't flash elite skills. That's a fair point. I don't understand how anyone could say he was objectively bad. His numbers overall were okay. Not great or anything, but okay for a rookie starter in an offense fairly light on talent.
RE: I agree with Burberry  
bw in dc : 1/14/2021 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15122255 Greg from LI said:
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The knock on Tua is that he didn't flash elite skills. That's a fair point. I don't understand how anyone could say he was objectively bad. His numbers overall were okay. Not great or anything, but okay for a rookie starter in an offense fairly light on talent.


Greg Cosell was recently evaluating Tua's year and said the Dolphins really dummied down the offense to keep it simple. Give him one quick read and hopefully get the short, easy completion. Which explains his very underwhelming 6.3 YPA.

Thinks his arm talent is still very questionable.
RE: RE: I agree with Burberry  
BrettNYG10 : 1/14/2021 1:11 pm : link
In comment 15122275 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15122255 Greg from LI said:


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The knock on Tua is that he didn't flash elite skills. That's a fair point. I don't understand how anyone could say he was objectively bad. His numbers overall were okay. Not great or anything, but okay for a rookie starter in an offense fairly light on talent.



Greg Cosell was recently evaluating Tua's year and said the Dolphins really dummied down the offense to keep it simple. Give him one quick read and hopefully get the short, easy completion. Which explains his very underwhelming 6.3 YPA.

Thinks his arm talent is still very questionable.


I thought of Chad Pennington watching Tua. Was his arm better pre-injury?
I focused on Tua and the Fins this year because I found him intriguing  
BurberryManning : 1/14/2021 1:17 pm : link
Its obviously a much different league now but his handling by the Dolphins almost felt similar to Roethlisberger in 2004. There was an obvious organizational commitment towards winning but doing so while developing their young quarterback, which can often be incongruent...it's like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. As a result they sheltered Tua with a dink-and-dunk, one or two read RPO style offense that didn't turn the ball over and allowed the defense prevail over whatever points they did score. It was actually maddening to watch and a lot of Dolphins fans hate(d) Chan Gailey as a result.

Recall, coming out of Bama one of Tua's strengths was supposed to be an accurate deep ball and that part of his game was nowhere to be found this year. Now part of this is because there's a difference in being "college open" and "NFL open" and Tua certainly needs to adjust to this after having benefited from talent mismatches every Saturday at Bama. The putrid supporting cast in Miami further compounded this issue and a big talking point this season was Fitz telling Tua to force the ball to players even if they don't appear open (hence why Fitz is more of a boom/bust QB). As mentioned, he doesn't have the Allen or Herbert arm and he's been coached to avoid turnovers so I have to believe it manifested itself in a complete lack of risk taking down the field. I also suspect play design intentionally limited his opportunities to make plays. Interestingly enough, his most impressive flashes come after the called play broke down and he was improvising.

Now the cynic could also say that the strict training wheels are an indictment of his talent or perhaps what the staff his limitations to be but the word from the staff and front-office has been consistent in their support so far. I guess time will tell.

I remember all the  
81_Great_Dane : 1/14/2021 3:48 pm : link
"tank for Tua" stuff. Now it's "not elite."

The draft is a crapshoot at any position; guys overperform and underperform their draft position all the time. It's not an exact science. Everybody misses on picks; everybody gets lucky occasionally in the late rounds or UDFA. The better GMs are more consistent but they still miss.

QB is even more of a crapshoot. Guys who look like world-beaters in college don't amount to anything in the NFL. Sometimes you get Ryan Leaf, sometimes you get Josh Allen, sometimes you get RGIII (who looked like a star until he didn't).
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