$175 million in 2021. Can those on this board more informed on the subject, explain HOW the league can do this? I would think the NFLPA would be up in arms, Teams would be screwed with existing contracts already structured to include and INCREASE and even individual players being outspoken as there will be more player cuts and I believe, a move to younger and less talented players. It changes my assumptions about the Giants keeping Solder, Zeitler, Tate, Engram and a number of lower priced players. Their ability to keep BOTH Tomlinson and Williams went out the window, in my thinking. Am I missing something or misunderstanding the salary cap increase?
they can extend guys a phantom year to push cap hits down the road. they can structure new contracts in a way with low base salaries in the first year, etc.
So, not so easy to sign everyone under current conditions.
zeitler should be let go as should solder and tate and mayo and engram
And?
Why can't we find other upgrades at other defensive positions/needs and become an even better D?
This BBI addiction to LW as this savior is bewildering...
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A declining cap probably makes using the franchise tag untenable.
A tagged player gets paid the average of the top 5 at their position. Those top 5 players won't be seeing an income drop, so the tag price stays high while the overall pool of money to sign free agents (and thus, average salaries) declines.
This will make resigning LW more difficult because we lose the leverage we would have had with the tag.
Maybe we will end up recouping that 3rd round pick as a comp pick when someone else signs him?
This is why we should let LW go, or at least test the market.
I expect that teams are going to be doing mass restructuring on existing contracts. And there may be more quality players than ever let go. So if we stay patient, and don't dive head first into the opening few weeks of the FA period, we could get some real bargains later on. And find a solution(s) to fill the LW void.
Yep, tough thing for many on BBI to hear but this is the prudent path to take with LW.
Not saying he doesn't deserve a great deal but no reason why NYG rebuild needs to get hamstrung for just him.
Free agency will put visibility on his market value and then we can always be bidders. As this should have played out a year ago.
they can extend guys a phantom year to push cap hits down the road. they can structure new contracts in a way with low base salaries in the first year, etc.
I have heard the books aren't even real.
Giants should just do whatever they want with regards to player salaries. Everybody else signs great players to big deals so we should as well.
Link - ( New Window )
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players signing one year deals and revisiting FA the following. Good time to be shopping for short term veterans to fill gaps without a big commitment.
Yes, this will totally reset the free agent market. The pandemic did something that no management strategy or collective bargaining agreement could have done.
A lot of guys headed to free agency may re-sign with their teams with only slight increases. LW may be happy to take what he was getting under the franchise tag. And who is going to sign a QB for $40 million that ties up 25% of the cap?
Shorter-term deals, Very few franchise players.
The optimism among owners was maybe the NFL was primed for a big comeback in 2021. With slow distribution and production of Covid vaccines, the math cannot be predicting a big return in gate revenue just yet.
It's also important to not get stuck on the one year cap number, but be cognizant of the cap space a team presumably has over the next 2-3 years. That's where money spent today will settle.
This isn't a team that should be dolling out big one year contracts (especially $19M one year deals Ahem!).
The Giants have lots of levers to pull, but they also have lots of holes and potential holes to fill. This is the most important offseason the Giants have had since 2016.
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We can not replace LW anywhere in the draft.
And?
Why can't we find other upgrades at other defensive positions/needs and become an even better D?
This BBI addiction to LW as this savior is bewildering...
When does it stop? At what point do the Giants start keeping the upper level players? Or do they ever keep their upper level players? Or do they just keep letting them go and keep rebuilding hoping to catch two or three players via the draft that keep them as a below mediocre team? Let them go and hope for a 3rd round comp big after the 2nd season?
There comes a point in time that the team needs to rebuild around its good players - what was the term used? one monster or alpha dog at each level - line, LB and secondary?
I don't like paying anybody $18-$20 mill per, but eventually they have to keep talent.
+1
Plugging holes, not building.
This off-season feels like an opportunity to be smarter in FA. Shop in the bargain bins for cheap 1 year deals (think of the original Golden deal as a template) and improve the cap situation for 2022 and beyond.
Telling that we're talking about two more offseasons. The light at the end of the tunnel doesn't seem to be getting larger.
Being bad and expensive means you screwed up.
The Giants aren't sitting on the sidelines of spending money or adding good veteran players.
I don't think anyone would bat a lash if the Giants signed Williams to a 3-year, well paying deal, that put him among the top 3-7 DTs in guaranteed money over that period of time.
This off-season feels like an opportunity to be smarter in FA. Shop in the bargain bins for cheap 1 year deals (think of the original Golden deal as a template) and improve the cap situation for 2022 and beyond.
Telling that we're talking about two more offseasons. The light at the end of the tunnel doesn't seem to be getting larger.
Typically you and I agree on these things. But I'm more optimistic about 2-3 year financial outlook for the team.
If the Giants trim some easy fat (Tate, Solder, Zeitler) they are in a pretty good financial situation 21-23.
There's no reason to overspend, ever, for any reason.
As you say (and I am paraphrasing) -- don't overspend dollars relative to quality. I look at the Bradberry, Martinez, and Ryan deals -- and there's very little to dislike.
Bradberry A player = A money
Martinez B+ player = B+ money
Ryan B player = B money
If the Giants follow that trend, they can shop.
I do worry though that the way they target positions is going to keep them fixing problems and not building strengths. This off-season it looks like it's going to be skill position guys to help Jones. Plugging a perceived hole...but acting like they're set in other areas is dangerous.
Being bad and expensive means you screwed up.
Huh?? Everyone discusses cap management. It is an integral part of the NFL. And whether posters keep repeating it or not, the Giants are not in terrible shape.
But I say the goal should be to sign the right players at the right positions. And while LW seems to have the right character and leadership qualities, I think his position isn't the right one to invest big cap dollars.
Plus, I think his acquisition was actually bad timing because the offense, and our high profile QB, are pretty putrid and just need too much work right now.
Not trying to pick on that specific post, but two years is the convenient time frame you throw out there to show just enough optimism but with the realism that 24 months buys you plenty of time to be wrong.
And not for nothing, but unless Daniel Jones is the real deal the Giants are two offseasons away from figuring out what QB to pick in the 2022 Draft.
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We can not replace LW anywhere in the draft.
And?
Why can't we find other upgrades at other defensive positions/needs and become an even better D?
This BBI addiction to LW as this savior is bewildering...
Not nearly as bewildering as why you continupusly post about a team that makes you so miserable.
You have to make tough decisions on who to keep and who to let go, and also factor in the financial aspect relative to the salary cap.
Tomlinson makes the Giants a better defense, but at a price tag north of $10M with a pile of roster holes left to fill, DT is a one spot where I look to stay cap-lean in tough decision spots. I'm no accountant, but a defense probably needing four starters and an offense probably needing close to as many needs to be ready to execute a UFA plan of action to get better, both in terms of scouting and financial health.
LW's a priority, and his price tag is going to play a big factor in this decision. Is Tomlinson a core player for the next five years? In my opinion, they can put the money to better and more wise use at more important positions, and backfill him.
I'm not concerned with being wrong. I'm not sold on Jones. I think we're closer to replacing him in a year or two than he is to being the QB who leads NYG to championships.
I see enough holes for perhaps 8-9 new starters on this team, that's more than one offseason of fixing required. This is a six-win roster, and a very large portion of it I wouldn't hitch my wagon to and say they will be here when (if) they open a playoff window. That's the point for me, when will they have enough talent and who will still be here.
I'm not concerned with being wrong. I'm not sold on Jones. I think we're closer to replacing him in a year or two than he is to being the QB who leads NYG to championships.
I see enough holes for perhaps 8-9 new starters on this team, that's more than one offseason of fixing required. This is a six-win roster, and a very large portion of it I wouldn't hitch my wagon to and say they will be here when (if) they open a playoff window. That's the point for me, when will they have enough talent and who will still be here.
Jon C - question really was for anyone, i just grabbed the line in your post I guess which I have read from others as well in recent past.
And not putting you on the spot, but this post is much different than your one above saying we are two offseasons away from being where we want. This one portrays nearly half the starters including the QB are likely not good enough to be a legitimate playoff team...far more pessimistic (or realistic quite frankly).
I tend to align myself more with this latter view you gave.
The good news we're seeing a team full of holes playing to the sum of its parts, and providing reason for optimism they've hired a solid head coach, etc.
The good news we're seeing a team full of holes playing to the sum of its parts, and providing reason for optimism they've hired a solid head coach, etc.
Yep, agree with sentiments above. Take care.
You have to make tough decisions on who to keep and who to let go, and also factor in the financial aspect relative to the salary cap.
Tomlinson makes the Giants a better defense, but at a price tag north of $10M with a pile of roster holes left to fill, DT is a one spot where I look to stay cap-lean in tough decision spots. I'm no accountant, but a defense probably needing four starters and an offense probably needing close to as many needs to be ready to execute a UFA plan of action to get better, both in terms of scouting and financial health.
LW's a priority, and his price tag is going to play a big factor in this decision. Is Tomlinson a core player for the next five years? In my opinion, they can put the money to better and more wise use at more important positions, and backfill him.
Considering all of the holes that remain in the dike, keeping LW at a $198M cap level was going to be tricky,
IMV.
With such a significant haircut to the cap now, there really is no plausible way to keep him and plug most of those other holes.
It's just bad timing all the way around.
Look, let's be honest. The most important person on the team is Jones. Not LW. And if we're going to keep him over making a play for any of these QBs in this '21 class, it's going to require the most cap dollars.
Unfortunately, that's where we are...
I'm on the record that the Giants need more good offensive players, and I want them to shop at the top of the market for a cornerstone offensive lineman.
Keeping Williams, adding a top shelf offensive liineman, and adding a quality veteran WR is not unattainable for the Giants this offseason.
Keeping Williams, adding a top shelf offensive liineman, and adding a quality veteran WR is not unattainable for the Giants this offseason.
Not sure that solves all of the problems, but I can't wait to see it.
I'm on the record that the Giants need more good offensive players, and I want them to shop at the top of the market for a cornerstone offensive lineman.
Keeping Williams, adding a top shelf offensive liineman, and adding a quality veteran WR is not unattainable for the Giants this offseason.
Add a top shelf CB opposite Bradberry and it is a well above average defense. Wait on an ER if necessary.
I would then go for WRs and TE.
We will get a clearer picture(duh) after FA on what they will do in the draft.
Let's face it, there are plenty directions they could go in.
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Keeping Williams, adding a top shelf offensive liineman, and adding a quality veteran WR is not unattainable for the Giants this offseason.
Not sure that solves all of the problems, but I can't wait to see it.
I think the Giants needs 2 more offseasons resembling 2020. The Giants were able to add 3 really good players on fair contracts. I'd like the Giants to do that in 21/22.
If the Giants build up that stable and Jones progresses, I believe that is your sweet spot for making noise in the playoffs.
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In comment 15122621 christian said:
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Keeping Williams, adding a top shelf offensive liineman, and adding a quality veteran WR is not unattainable for the Giants this offseason.
Not sure that solves all of the problems, but I can't wait to see it.
I think the Giants needs 2 more offseasons resembling 2020. The Giants were able to add 3 really good players on fair contracts. I'd like the Giants to do that in 21/22.
If the Giants build up that stable and Jones progresses, I believe that is your sweet spot for making noise in the playoffs.
I think they can get there quicker than you think...keeping LW, signing a mid level guy like Samuel (as has been discussed) who can stretch the field and be a pain in the ass on underneath routes opens up quite a bit of the playaction that Garrett likes to run, being able to grab Joe Thuney and then maybe another mid level guy like Mackenzie Alexander (tho he might be strictly a safety now) or Vance MacDonald (would love it if he shook loose from Pitt) and have a great draft, we should be in the thick of things offensively and otherwise.
But, without question, the quickest path to getting to playoffs and making some hay when you get there is Daniel Jones developing his game on several levels.
Unfortunately, it probably is also the step with the most risk.
Surtain would be my top pick of the entire draft at this point, bit he won't be there unless 4 QBs get taken in the top ten, and Dallas takes one of them.
Pitts is very intriguing....if he runs WR time and jumps through the roof at the combine. I would love Plax pt 2. As a TE, not so much.
Rashod Bateman is interesting, but again, he would need to have a very good Combine.
The most intriguing player for me is Christian Barmore. He put up Q Will type numbers this year and was a real bastard in the title game. If he has a very good Combine, Barmore, LW, Dex as our front D with the FA I mentioned above and a bigger wide out in the 2nd, that's a huge step forward.
But, without question, the quickest path to getting to playoffs and making some hay when you get there is Daniel Jones developing his game on several levels.
Unfortunately, it probably is also the step with the most risk.
Honestly dude, he didnt really stand a chance based on how dyfunctional the line was at the beginning, coinciding with Saquon going down in Game 2, half 1, having to rely on EE....it was a mess from the get go. I'll tell you what, Jones looked much better against the Ravens despite our shit getting pushed in and he was very good in week 17 against Dallas.
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Good commentary and generally agree as to steps on what it takes.
But, without question, the quickest path to getting to playoffs and making some hay when you get there is Daniel Jones developing his game on several levels.
Unfortunately, it probably is also the step with the most risk.
Honestly dude, he didnt really stand a chance based on how dyfunctional the line was at the beginning, coinciding with Saquon going down in Game 2, half 1, having to rely on EE....it was a mess from the get go. I'll tell you what, Jones looked much better against the Ravens despite our shit getting pushed in and he was very good in week 17 against Dallas.
That's a low standard for "very good". Watch the quarterbacks this weekend and then try to say anything Jones did was very good.
We've got to up our standards for Jones. Simply not turning it over isn't nearly enough.
I was at a loud bar with friends watching a bunch of games and honestly lost interest very early when Giants fell behind so quickly. Just don’t recall seeing anything wow about DJs performance in that losing effort.
Chopper- Yes, I thought he played well versus Dallas. But the game that sticks with me as telling that he won’t be a franchise QB was that Tampa game. I can honestly say he lost that game for Giants, and he lost it because he couldn’t think thru the reads and make the throws. He left plays all over the field when that game was for the taking.
Hope I am wrong.
I was at a loud bar with friends watching a bunch of games and honestly lost interest very early when Giants fell behind so quickly. Just don’t recall seeing anything wow about DJs performance in that losing effort.
All I saw in that game was the defense moving backwards.
Being bad and expensive means you screwed up.
To be fair if the Cap had remained on the pre-COVID trajectory we'd be sitting on about $25-30 million of space with the ability to add another $25-30 million.
Don't get me wrong, we should have done what the Bills, Colts and Dolphins did, accept a year looking for nuggets of gold in shit, clear the decks while accumulating as much draft capital and cap space as possible and allow the new coach to build a team to suit his philosophy.
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is a reflection of the front office.
Being bad and expensive means you screwed up.
To be fair if the Cap had remained on the pre-COVID trajectory we'd be sitting on about $25-30 million of space with the ability to add another $25-30 million.
Don't get me wrong, we should have done what the Bills, Colts and Dolphins did, accept a year looking for nuggets of gold in shit, clear the decks while accumulating as much draft capital and cap space as possible and allow the new coach to build a team to suit his philosophy.
Those franchises have been cheap spending money along with Cleveland and Jax for quite a while. The Giants did dig out from under some bad contracts and they are mid-pack which is a lot better than where they have been for years.
They also signed some nice deals last year with Martinez and Bradberry that worked out quite well. Personally, I do not want to spend $10s of mill on WRs and ERs. Draft those. Look for deals on the 2nd or 3rd wave like they did with Logan Ryan.
There will be many good players caught in the FA market when teams need to unload to get under the CAP. There are ways to navigate knowing that next season 2022, they will have a load of money.
Simply put, considering how much he has made with us and his age, I think Solder retires now. Zeitler will be asked to take a pay cut given we have Lemiuex, Hernandez and the draft. Tate is definitely gone. We can open enough cap space to keep Williams and Tomlinson UNLESS a team is willing to way overpay for either of them.
The KEY in this league is keeping the good guys with reasonable contracts while NOT retaining the bad guys or signing guys OVER-PRICED (or over age). DG did a great job in 2020 but his earlier work has hurt us badly (Solder, Tate, Bethea).
I was at a loud bar with friends watching a bunch of games and honestly lost interest very early when Giants fell behind so quickly. Just don’t recall seeing anything wow about DJs performance in that losing effort.
I swear I think many considered it "good outing" because Jones finally threw a TD pass after not having done so in a month. As Terps says the standards are very low around here for so many.
We've bastardized expectations so much that our franchise QB finally throwing one TD pass in a game is considered proof that he's "back".
I'm pretty smart, but I'm not that good with math nor the cap rules. I've been poking around with the cap calculator on OTC.
Jon, Wouldn't it be possible for them to transition tag Williams and Franchise tomlinson and fit that under the cap along the other moves we absolutely must (not wish to...) make? If they were to cut Solder, Tate, EE and Toilolo? I mean it's tight... but maybe that's where Abrams can bring some "magic" to the table with some smart extensions etc...
If that works, they could then give those two DL good deals in 2022?
For virtually the worst pass blocking line in the NFL, too much is made of the individual players IMV.
EE is tough. Cutting him saves cap but does create a hole but I'd be all about replacing EE with a solid reliable "average" TE.