The man is one of the best eye coaches ever, it he’s had health issues and his staff is at Ohio St on top of the NFL adjustment. Lawrence gives him every chance to succeed, not having a QB is what sinks most HCs.
I think the least successful route to take as a franchise is to take a guy with very limited NFL experience straight from college and give him a HC job in the NFL.
don't think Meyer's schtick will play well in the NFL.
I don't either but he chose a great spot to try it. It's far easier for college coaches to make it in the NFL than it was 15-20 years ago but few still succeed. If Lawrence develops into the QB that many expect then Meyer's job will be much easier. Plus there is far less media attention and pressure playing in Jacksonville.
The Jags were a bad team but they do have some good young pieces. Minshew will make a great backup to Lawrence.
Only two coaches in college football history have moved on to the pros having had as much or more success in college (as measured by National Championships).
John McKay left USC with 4 National Championships to coach the Bucaneers in 1976. A move that was made mostly based on money - they increased his salary five-fold - McKay ended up with just a 44-88-1 record on Sundays.
Barry Switzer had 3 National Championships with the Oklahoma Sooners and as we all know was hired by Jerry Jones to drive Jimmy Johnson's ferrari from 94-97. Won 1 Super Bowl, and amassed 40-24 record in the regular season. He resigned after going 6-10 in 1997.
RE: They might have a solid trade asset in Minshew
don't think Meyer's schtick will play well in the NFL.
I don't either but he chose a great spot to try it. It's far easier for college coaches to make it in the NFL than it was 15-20 years ago but few still succeed. If Lawrence develops into the QB that many expect then Meyer's job will be much easier. Plus there is far less media attention and pressure playing in Jacksonville.
The Jags were a bad team but they do have some good young pieces. Minshew will make a great backup to Lawrence.
I agree. Lawrence is going to be able to prop up any coach they have a bit.
Meyer just has too many red flags, and his lack of dedication is going to really be tested in the pro game with its ups and downs. I don't see him lasting more than 3 years, either due to health or another premier job he'd look at.
Meyer just has too many red flags, and his lack of dedication is going to really be tested in the pro game with its ups and downs. I don't see him lasting more than 3 years, either due to health or another premier job he'd look at.
I would be shocked if he is there longer than 3 years.
would be more interested in a GM/President role. Every time he has a close game he is constantly grabbing his head. Twice a year at Ohio State. Now it will be every week.
Plenty of coaches have come from the college ranks and had NFL success. TC, Carroll, Switzer, Johnson. A good coach/leader is a good but certainly some adjustments are in order.
Switzer takes way too much crap for his stint at Dallas. That team was starting to fall apart. It is hard staying on top for long.
Anybody follow him enough in college to have any thoughts
probably doesn't take enough crap for his stint in Dallas.
He treated the Cowboys job as a college one with the assistants doing the bulk of the work and the bulk of the game planning.
Zampese, Davis and Campo were doing almost all of the work and they and the position assistants ran the practices and there were times that Switzer was absent during the week.
The stories of Switzer's trangressions are pretty legendary too. Hudson Houck joked that Switzer getting caught with a gun at the airport (which started the pressure to lead to his resignation), could have been one of the least nefarious things he did, saying, "Hell, if they knew what he did Tuesday or Wednesday of most weeks, they'd put him in solitary confinement!"
I'm hoping there's a documentary on Switzer one of these days. It would be extremely enjoyable.
Meyer is the best coach I’ve ever seen in college football. Yes, Saban has the best credentials, but to win one game I would take Meyer every time. And he gets Trevor Lawrence too? I’ll be extremely interested to see how/if it works out.
don't think Meyer's schtick will play well in the NFL.
Agreed. Good coach, but a total unknown at this level.
His “health problems” are well documented, and I’m curious to see how he does without the top high school recruits in the nation clamoring to play for his program.
Coryell, Vermeil, Robinson. I think dynamics have changed a lot. College football was a big deal before the NFL really took off. I think if some of the better college coaches really committed to winning in the NFL they would have success. I guess it depends on what one defines success. I don't think winning a Super Bowl is a fair measurement.
by Jacksonville, who will immediately look for a WR to pair with Lawrence
They could and it would make them even better, but they do already have a nice young core in Laviska Shenault and DJ Chark.
They also have a good young RB in James Robinson. He’s a true three down back as he showed some pass catching skills this season. What a find that guy was.
was a college coach for 7 years. He certainly fits the definition of a guy who rose from college to be successful in the NFL.
He also has a personality that makes it difficult for longevity in the NFL
I think it's different b/c he played in the league. He was also the QB coach for the Raiders for a year. It's hard to believe, but he was hired as the 49ers coach 10 years ago now....
Like another poster said earlier - the divide between college and the NFL has grown significantly. I just don't think those all college guys work.
Yes a divide exists. One thing these college coaches have is depth. So even if they lose starters they have very good talent behind them.
The NFL things change quickly. Have a great player and they get a career ending or injury that substantially reduces their performance long term.....not easy to replace. College they have someone already on the depth chart. Same goes for losing people in FA.
wins everywhere he goes. He can flat out coach football. Who knows how it will work out but sure looks like a great hire.
And how good is Trevor Lawrence feeling? A month ago looked like he was going to the Jets. Now, he gets to stay in south and play for a legendary college coach in a small, low pressure market. Damn near perfect.
wins everywhere he goes. He can flat out coach football. Who knows how it will work out but sure looks like a great hire.
And how good is Trevor Lawrence feeling? A month ago looked like he was going to the Jets. Now, he gets to stay in south and play for a legendary college coach in a small, low pressure market. Damn near perfect.
I agree. Its not just college coaches that have a hard time adapting to the NFL, plenty of NFL coordinators crash and burn too. I like this hire, perfect place/situation for him IMO.
"psych" program and methods won't fly with paid athletes/veterans.
He'll have to change his methods a bit and approaches (as Saban found out hard way).
Nick Saban joined the Dolphins in the pre-social media era and I don't think that can be emphasized enough as a critical moment in sports (every sport changed immensely in the late 2000's).
Saban has coached before/after this era so I'm sure he knows what works in college won't exactly fly in the NFL. I bet Saban's approach would be completely different entering the NFL now as opposed to 10/15 years ago.
to 2023 when they limp along to a 5-11 finish and Urban “retires” again.
This. Meyer will give them a few years, and when the team doesn't succeed, he'll leave. Lawrence will end up going through a handful of HC/OC/systems, and he'll end up not meeting his potential.
Add me to the list who doesn't think Meyer will last long in the NFL, mostly due to his health and his wandering eye.
Trade asset...agreed. He is in a really good situation, but...I think it is really hard for these guys to succeed. Meyer is a god at OSU. College coaches have all the power. Today's NFL is a completely different animal. Wait until he has to kiss ass and deal player ego.
1) His health. That condition he has is not something you can slough off.
2) In college, the coach is the star; the players are just passing through for a few years. The coach is king. In the NFL, most of the players are paid more and are bigger stars than the coach. It's the coach who may be just passing through. It's not like the NBA, where the elite players can basically dictate hires and trades, but it's sure not college.
3) These aren't college kids, they're pro athletes and grown men. There are no 18-year-olds and plenty of guys in their 30s. If you saw "Ted Lasso," Ted keeps talking about developing his players as people, but there's a moment when his assistant reminds him that these are pros, their goal is to win. It's a different mindset. There's no doubt about his competitiveness but the path to winning is different in the NFL. If I were him, I'd surround myself with a bunch of experienced NFL coaches and look for former head coaches, as Joe Judge did.
4) No NFL team has the kind of physical advantage that his teams had in college. Nearly every team (yes, even the Giants and Jets) can match up physically. That puts much greater pressure on the coaching. You have to be very detail oriented and a great teacher and be able to conceive a terrific game plan every week.
5) Related to #1 above, the hours and stress on a pro coach are far, far greater than college coaches. He's not a young man. He's diving into something that burns out younger men with no health issues. It's a big gamble for both sides.
Much like Nick Saban, Meyer will find it's much tougher to dominate in the pros where, unlike college, he can't just recruit an endless supply of the best athletes in the country.
Upon retirement, he will site health issues (which I believe are legitimate) and of course, his desire to spend more time with family.
Number I have seen is 12 million dollars per year.
He does not need a long career there.
The great college coaches like Saban and Meyer are playing with superior talent.
Even with Lawrence it will take a few good off seasons to get the Jaguars roster to a level in which they can compete with Chiefs, Bills and Ravens.
I'm actually surprised he took this. The stress of the pros is very grinding compared to college. And we know the health issues Meyer had at UF and OSU.
He does seem to have that Jimmy Johnson advantage. Meyer is very up to speed on the college landscape and knows the top incoming draft class very, very well.
He's a tantalizing prospect. Unfortunately you can't dismiss the pesky reality that he hasn't faced much adversity. There was a great article on NFL QB play at ESPN detailing Josh Allen's rise. In a nutshell, almost all NFL QBs who become great have extreme mental & physical toughness and battled through some sort of marked adversity. Whether it was a bad OLine, having to transfer to keep your career alive, something to show you really want it. As Allen put it: "This is the NFL. You're going to get punched in the mouth. How you respond to that determines how good you are." This was one of the reasons Judge is high on Daniel Jones: he took a beating and never wavered. Always stood tough in the pocket. Respected in the lockerroom. They know how he will respond when things get rough. Lamar Jackson was battle tested in college, as was Mahomes, Mayfield, Drew Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Russell Wilson, etc. Not many silver spoons. Physical and mental toughness.
The opposite of course is Jamarcus Russell and Dwayne Haskins, who had EZ-Boy recliners in the pocket throwing target practice. And maybe now Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence?
Lawrence had a cushy gig running that Clemson O. We'll see how he handles adversity, and the chaotic sh#tshow known as an NFL pocket. Will he keep grinding and maintain his status in the lockerroom when things get tough? Or will he turn into a pumpkin? Because they WILL get extremely tough.
one decide who was "battle tested" in college?? That's laughable. Using Clemson as an example, Watson wasn't "battle tested" in college and he's doing just fine. Was Cam Newton battle tested? Was Big Ben?
Half the guys you listed as battle tested had very good WR's and skill position players. Not sure what this ridiculous concept of "battle tested" has to do - nor would you know who was or wasn't.
I've linked the article below. It's a good read about Josh Allen's emergence, and the advice he got from Tony Romo and Ryan Fitzpatrick out to dinner in Miami.
I'm not here to champion the author's premise or try to pick holes in the argument with certain individuals. Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. At the crux of the point, however, is a guy who has it "easy" in college (annointed day 1, ultra productive environment, huge talent disadvantage) is very difficult to project into the NFL.
of the point should be it is really hard to project QB's from all walks of the NCAA. There have been a lot of QB's who didn't face major adversity in college- notably some of the greats- who had a ton of success in the NFL.
With the stress level of the NFL, will his health also greatly deteriorate?
Agree
It just doesn't work.
I don't either but he chose a great spot to try it. It's far easier for college coaches to make it in the NFL than it was 15-20 years ago but few still succeed. If Lawrence develops into the QB that many expect then Meyer's job will be much easier. Plus there is far less media attention and pressure playing in Jacksonville.
The Jags were a bad team but they do have some good young pieces. Minshew will make a great backup to Lawrence.
John McKay left USC with 4 National Championships to coach the Bucaneers in 1976. A move that was made mostly based on money - they increased his salary five-fold - McKay ended up with just a 44-88-1 record on Sundays.
Barry Switzer had 3 National Championships with the Oklahoma Sooners and as we all know was hired by Jerry Jones to drive Jimmy Johnson's ferrari from 94-97. Won 1 Super Bowl, and amassed 40-24 record in the regular season. He resigned after going 6-10 in 1997.
I am a fan of Minshew and I would love to land him as Jones' backup but the Giants can't afford to give up a 3rd-4th round pick to land him.
The Colts and WFT should try to land Minshew.
Quote:
don't think Meyer's schtick will play well in the NFL.
I don't either but he chose a great spot to try it. It's far easier for college coaches to make it in the NFL than it was 15-20 years ago but few still succeed. If Lawrence develops into the QB that many expect then Meyer's job will be much easier. Plus there is far less media attention and pressure playing in Jacksonville.
The Jags were a bad team but they do have some good young pieces. Minshew will make a great backup to Lawrence.
I agree. Lawrence is going to be able to prop up any coach they have a bit.
Meyer just has too many red flags, and his lack of dedication is going to really be tested in the pro game with its ups and downs. I don't see him lasting more than 3 years, either due to health or another premier job he'd look at.
Meyer just has too many red flags, and his lack of dedication is going to really be tested in the pro game with its ups and downs. I don't see him lasting more than 3 years, either due to health or another premier job he'd look at.
I would be shocked if he is there longer than 3 years.
They could and it would make them even better, but they do already have a nice young core in Laviska Shenault and DJ Chark.
Plenty of coaches have come from the college ranks and had NFL success. TC, Carroll, Switzer, Johnson. A good coach/leader is a good but certainly some adjustments are in order.
Switzer takes way too much crap for his stint at Dallas. That team was starting to fall apart. It is hard staying on top for long.
That's assuming he wants to go back to Jacksonville. IMO, he wants to get paid and win this year and not be part of another rebuild.
There are some nice pieces in place. No need for a total teardown. If Lawrence shows up, the Jags just need to build a solid core.
Wow, I am surprised at that. I think he faded badly but, the Jags were a mess.
He treated the Cowboys job as a college one with the assistants doing the bulk of the work and the bulk of the game planning.
Zampese, Davis and Campo were doing almost all of the work and they and the position assistants ran the practices and there were times that Switzer was absent during the week.
The stories of Switzer's trangressions are pretty legendary too. Hudson Houck joked that Switzer getting caught with a gun at the airport (which started the pressure to lead to his resignation), could have been one of the least nefarious things he did, saying, "Hell, if they knew what he did Tuesday or Wednesday of most weeks, they'd put him in solitary confinement!"
I'm hoping there's a documentary on Switzer one of these days. It would be extremely enjoyable.
Agreed. Good coach, but a total unknown at this level.
His “health problems” are well documented, and I’m curious to see how he does without the top high school recruits in the nation clamoring to play for his program.
Harbaugh? Coughlin? Carroll? Johnson?
The list isn't very long is it?
Tough jump apparently.
Harbaugh? Coughlin? Carroll? Johnson?
The list isn't very long is it?
Tough jump apparently.
Coryell, Vermeil, Robinson. I think dynamics have changed a lot. College football was a big deal before the NFL really took off. I think if some of the better college coaches really committed to winning in the NFL they would have success. I guess it depends on what one defines success. I don't think winning a Super Bowl is a fair measurement.
I can’t imagine he would take any job without complete control.
Quote:
by Jacksonville, who will immediately look for a WR to pair with Lawrence
They could and it would make them even better, but they do already have a nice young core in Laviska Shenault and DJ Chark.
They also have a good young RB in James Robinson. He’s a true three down back as he showed some pass catching skills this season. What a find that guy was.
Harbaugh? Coughlin? Carroll? Johnson?
The list isn't very long is it?
Tough jump apparently.
Jimmy Johnson was the last guy to really do it.
Coughlin was an NFL assistant for years - Carroll was as well, and had a HC gig with NE before going to USC....
Harbaugh played in the NFL.
Those life long college guys just don't work out in the NFL.
He also has a personality that makes it difficult for longevity in the NFL
He also has a personality that makes it difficult for longevity in the NFL
I think it's different b/c he played in the league. He was also the QB coach for the Raiders for a year. It's hard to believe, but he was hired as the 49ers coach 10 years ago now....
Like another poster said earlier - the divide between college and the NFL has grown significantly. I just don't think those all college guys work.
The NFL things change quickly. Have a great player and they get a career ending or injury that substantially reduces their performance long term.....not easy to replace. College they have someone already on the depth chart. Same goes for losing people in FA.
And how good is Trevor Lawrence feeling? A month ago looked like he was going to the Jets. Now, he gets to stay in south and play for a legendary college coach in a small, low pressure market. Damn near perfect.
I agree. Pitino-ish
And how good is Trevor Lawrence feeling? A month ago looked like he was going to the Jets. Now, he gets to stay in south and play for a legendary college coach in a small, low pressure market. Damn near perfect.
I agree. Its not just college coaches that have a hard time adapting to the NFL, plenty of NFL coordinators crash and burn too. I like this hire, perfect place/situation for him IMO.
He'll have to change his methods a bit and approaches (as Saban found out hard way).
He'll have to change his methods a bit and approaches (as Saban found out hard way).
Nick Saban joined the Dolphins in the pre-social media era and I don't think that can be emphasized enough as a critical moment in sports (every sport changed immensely in the late 2000's).
Saban has coached before/after this era so I'm sure he knows what works in college won't exactly fly in the NFL. I bet Saban's approach would be completely different entering the NFL now as opposed to 10/15 years ago.
This. Meyer will give them a few years, and when the team doesn't succeed, he'll leave. Lawrence will end up going through a handful of HC/OC/systems, and he'll end up not meeting his potential.
He's being gifted Trevor Lawrence. Why would he bring in Haskins?
2) In college, the coach is the star; the players are just passing through for a few years. The coach is king. In the NFL, most of the players are paid more and are bigger stars than the coach. It's the coach who may be just passing through. It's not like the NBA, where the elite players can basically dictate hires and trades, but it's sure not college.
3) These aren't college kids, they're pro athletes and grown men. There are no 18-year-olds and plenty of guys in their 30s. If you saw "Ted Lasso," Ted keeps talking about developing his players as people, but there's a moment when his assistant reminds him that these are pros, their goal is to win. It's a different mindset. There's no doubt about his competitiveness but the path to winning is different in the NFL. If I were him, I'd surround myself with a bunch of experienced NFL coaches and look for former head coaches, as Joe Judge did.
4) No NFL team has the kind of physical advantage that his teams had in college. Nearly every team (yes, even the Giants and Jets) can match up physically. That puts much greater pressure on the coaching. You have to be very detail oriented and a great teacher and be able to conceive a terrific game plan every week.
5) Related to #1 above, the hours and stress on a pro coach are far, far greater than college coaches. He's not a young man. He's diving into something that burns out younger men with no health issues. It's a big gamble for both sides.
Upon retirement, he will site health issues (which I believe are legitimate) and of course, his desire to spend more time with family.
He does not need a long career there.
The great college coaches like Saban and Meyer are playing with superior talent.
Even with Lawrence it will take a few good off seasons to get the Jaguars roster to a level in which they can compete with Chiefs, Bills and Ravens.
Meyer was pretty vocal that Haskins needed more maturity and could have used another year at OSU.
I'm actually surprised he took this. The stress of the pros is very grinding compared to college. And we know the health issues Meyer had at UF and OSU.
He does seem to have that Jimmy Johnson advantage. Meyer is very up to speed on the college landscape and knows the top incoming draft class very, very well.
The opposite of course is Jamarcus Russell and Dwayne Haskins, who had EZ-Boy recliners in the pocket throwing target practice. And maybe now Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence?
Lawrence had a cushy gig running that Clemson O. We'll see how he handles adversity, and the chaotic sh#tshow known as an NFL pocket. Will he keep grinding and maintain his status in the lockerroom when things get tough? Or will he turn into a pumpkin? Because they WILL get extremely tough.
Half the guys you listed as battle tested had very good WR's and skill position players. Not sure what this ridiculous concept of "battle tested" has to do - nor would you know who was or wasn't.
I've linked the article below. It's a good read about Josh Allen's emergence, and the advice he got from Tony Romo and Ryan Fitzpatrick out to dinner in Miami.
I'm not here to champion the author's premise or try to pick holes in the argument with certain individuals. Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. At the crux of the point, however, is a guy who has it "easy" in college (annointed day 1, ultra productive environment, huge talent disadvantage) is very difficult to project into the NFL.
When it Clicked for Josh Allen - ( New Window )