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Dan Duggan grades each player

Giantsfan79 : 1/14/2021 10:49 am
if you want to see his justifications for his grades go to the athletic. He posted this 2 hours ago. critique now

A+
Leonard Williams
James Bradberry
Graham Gano

A
Blake Martinez
Casey Kreiter

A-
Dalvin Tomlinson
Joe Judge

B+
Wayne Gallman
Austin Johnson
Dexter Lawrence
Jabrill Peppers
Logan Ryan

B
Dave Gettleman
Alfred Morris
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton
Kaden Smith
Nick Gates
Matt Peart
Kevin Zeitler
Markus Golden
B.J. Hill
Lorenzo Carter
Carter Coughlin
Tae Crowder
Darnay Holmes
Julian Love

B-
Austin Mack
Kyler Fackrell
Isaac Yiadom

C+
Jabaal Sheard
Ryan Lewis

C
Daniel Jones
C.J. Board
Shane Lemieux
Andrew Thomas
David Mayo
Riley Dixon

C-
Devonta Freeman
Evan Engram
Levine Toilolo
Cameron Fleming
Will Hernandez
Devante Downs

D
Dion Lewis
Damion Ratley
Golden Tate

Incomplete
Saquon Barkley
Eli Penny
Dante Pettis
Eric Tomlinson
Jackson Barton
Kyle Murphy
Spencer Pulley
Chad Slade
R.J. McIntosh
Oshane Ximines
Cam Brown
Niko Lalos
Trent Harris
TJ Brunson
Madre Harper
Brandon Williams
Jarren Williams
Corey Ballentine
Xavier McKinney
Nate Ebner
Adrian Colbert
Montre Hartage
Sean Chandler
Evan Engram  
terz22 : 1/14/2021 10:51 am : link
Should be an F
I  
AcidTest : 1/14/2021 10:52 am : link
don't agree with the grades for Jones, Lemieux, Thomas, Freeman, or Hernandez.
There was a caveat he added  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/14/2021 10:55 am : link
"An important note: Expectations are factored into my grading scale. Daniel Jones is obviously a better player than C.J. Board, but they got the same grade based on how their performances measured up to preseason expectations."
EE is directly responsible for several winnable losses.  
penkap75 : 1/14/2021 10:55 am : link
C is too generous.
So you give Matt Peart a "B" and Andrew Thomas a "C"  
Rick in Dallas : 1/14/2021 10:56 am : link
Really!!!
This board is just too much on Engram  
SirYesSir : 1/14/2021 10:58 am : link
he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much
Just another..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2021 11:04 am : link
pet peeve to see guys do things like grades and power rankings just for the fuck of it.
RE: This board is just too much on Engram  
JaxGiant : 1/14/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15122176 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much


I think I have to disagree. I honestly can't think of him coming up big in any situation and I'm honestly tired of hearing how good he is. I just don't see it and the only play I remember being great is the catch and run against the Bucs last year.

I still remember being miffed when we selected him when we needed an OT or a more well rounded TE at the very least. He was a luxury pick that we didn't have the luxury of picking at the time.
Does Markus Golden get a "B" for being traded for a pick  
ZogZerg : 1/14/2021 11:08 am : link
LOL with these.

Engram is an F  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/14/2021 11:08 am : link
.
it's a good topic of conversation  
Dnew15 : 1/14/2021 11:15 am : link
for this time of year.

How does Austin Mack get a B  
cjac : 1/14/2021 11:17 am : link
hahaha thats ridiculous

and the Giants run game got so much better with Lemieux in there. this is stupid
RE: This board is just too much on Engram  
chopperhatch : 1/14/2021 11:19 am : link
In comment 15122176 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much


What? Like which other than the Redskins win?
How the hell  
section125 : 1/14/2021 11:22 am : link
is Gates a B and not at least an "A". Guy way overperformed pre-season expectations and was the best OL.?
You win 6 games  
Section331 : 1/14/2021 11:27 am : link
and 60% of the graded player are B or better? Come on.

And DG gets a B? WTF? We had the 31st ranked offense, does he get no blame for that? And as much as I like Joe Judge, I find it hard to give a 6-game winner an A.
Sorry, A-  
Section331 : 1/14/2021 11:27 am : link
.
High praise for Austin Johnson  
FranknWeezer : 1/14/2021 11:34 am : link
Really didn't hear his name called much at all this year. 8 tackles, one sack/forced fumble. Guess he was just that solid of a run stopper?
I've always hated minus grades  
Chris684 : 1/14/2021 11:34 am : link
seems like one option too many.

Evan Engram should get an F for sucking and being the reason we didn't sweep the Eagles and win the division.
Peart a B, Thomas a C?  
Victor in CT : 1/14/2021 11:40 am : link
Duggan an F
RE: This board is just too much on Engram  
Saquads26 : 1/14/2021 11:45 am : link
In comment 15122176 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much


不不不不不不不不
Pretty easy grader.  
Since1965 : 1/14/2021 11:49 am : link
Even though this was based on pre-season expectations, if the players were really that good, then they would have won 10 games.
RE: So you give Matt Peart a  
Blue21 : 1/14/2021 11:51 am : link
In comment 15122172 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Really!!!


I know really? Discredits himself right there!
RE: How does Austin Mack get a B  
Blue21 : 1/14/2021 11:52 am : link
In comment 15122198 cjac said:
Quote:
hahaha thats ridiculous

and the Giants run game got so much better with Lemieux in there. this is stupid


Another good point.
RE: This board is just too much on Engram  
TJ : 1/14/2021 11:58 am : link
In comment 15122176 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much


I'm with you.
I think BBI gets carried away with the torches and pitchforks.
Engram has serious issues. Bad drops, few touchdowns, poor blocker. But. He finished 6th in receptions and 8th in yards among TE this season. And some of the guys ahead of him are also poor blockers and some are not as willing as he is.

He needs to be better. But he's still on rookie deal and he has physical talents that are hard to replace. I don't see the point in getting rid of him yet.
Wayne gallman B+ ????  
djm : 1/14/2021 12:00 pm : link
Cmon. People wouldnt know a very good rb if he bit them on the ass. Hes an average player. Being kind. Hes a pro. Again, kind. Hes not a good starting RB not by any metric.
So as mentioned above  
Mike from Ohio : 1/14/2021 12:02 pm : link
this is not based solely on the talent of the player.

Peart was a B because little was expected of a 3rd round pick in his rookie year and to an extent he exceeded expectations. Thomas is a C not because he was a lesser player than Peart, but because he was the #4 pick and expectations were high. For roughly half the year he did not meet those expectations, and in the second half he did, so an average grade.

There are a lot of B and above players on a 6-10 team, which means very little was expected of this team this year, not that most of the players are above average.

Similar years from young players will probably draw a lower grade next year because expectations should be higher for a developing player (with hopefully a full training camp and pre-season).
RE: This board is just too much on Engram  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/14/2021 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15122176 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much


Dude cost us MULTIPLE games this year. He can't be gone soon enough.
RE: There was a caveat he added  
KeoweeFan : 1/14/2021 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15122168 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
"An important note: Expectations are factored into my grading scale. Daniel Jones is obviously a better player than C.J. Board, but they got the same grade based on how their performances measured up to preseason expectations."

That's a poor caveat if you are handing out grades. To me that's more of an evaluation of the person making the preseason expectation.
How is it possible that there isn't  
Dnew15 : 1/14/2021 12:08 pm : link
one failure on a team that went 6-10?
I just finished the article.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/14/2021 12:10 pm : link
Id give Nick Gates a higher grade.

Id give Daniel Jones and Evan Engram lower grades.

Why no grades for the coordinators?

Dan had a funny and true line about the long snapper. If you dont hear his name, thats a good sign. I have no idea who the long snapper was this season.
RE: How is it possible that there isn't  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/14/2021 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15122280 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
one failure on a team that went 6-10?


If you dont think the team is good to begin with, its hard to say anyone played that far below expectations.
Judge grade Laughable  
BradberryGlue : 1/14/2021 12:16 pm : link
I'd give him a C that is my biggest disagreement at first glance. Team went 6-10 and finished 31st in offense which is the driving force of NFL success. We won 1 game v a winning team and faced a bevy of backup QBs and Olines.

I give Judge an A at the mic where he 2 predecessors embarrassed the organization on a weekly basis. Judge can talk the talk. I will give him an A when the team walks the walk.
RE: RE: How is it possible that there isn't  
Dnew15 : 1/14/2021 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15122283 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15122280 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


one failure on a team that went 6-10?



If you dont think the team is good to begin with, its hard to say anyone played that far below expectations.


Really?

Golden Tate should have been easy one - that dude deserves a big 'ol F.

I can't tell you one thing he did that was even below average thus deserving of a D rather than an F.
Would have graded Andrew Thomas higher  
Stu11 : 1/14/2021 12:27 pm : link
And no way in hell does Slayton deserve a B. He was a huge disappointment after week 1 IMHO. I maybe bumped Peppers up to an A- but that's no biggie. I agree way too many B and above for a 6 win team.
RE: High praise for Austin Johnson  
Thegratefulhead : 1/14/2021 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15122223 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
Really didn't hear his name called much at all this year. 8 tackles, one sack/forced fumble. Guess he was just that solid of a run stopper?
He is one of the reason I am OK with letting DT go. When he flashed it was often impactful. I noticed him when he was on the field.
RE: Judge grade Laughable  
Victor in CT : 1/14/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15122286 BradberryGlue said:
Quote:
I'd give him a C that is my biggest disagreement at first glance. Team went 6-10 and finished 31st in offense which is the driving force of NFL success. We won 1 game v a winning team and faced a bevy of backup QBs and Olines.

I give Judge an A at the mic where he 2 predecessors embarrassed the organization on a weekly basis. Judge can talk the talk. I will give him an A when the team walks the walk.


so you think that they have "A" talent and Judge didn't get the most out of it? Because all of your other rants are how they have no talent.
RE: RE: Judge grade Laughable  
BradberryGlue : 1/14/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15122312 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15122286 BradberryGlue said:


Quote:


I'd give him a C that is my biggest disagreement at first glance. Team went 6-10 and finished 31st in offense which is the driving force of NFL success. We won 1 game v a winning team and faced a bevy of backup QBs and Olines.

I give Judge an A at the mic where he 2 predecessors embarrassed the organization on a weekly basis. Judge can talk the talk. I will give him an A when the team walks the walk.



so you think that they have "A" talent and Judge didn't get the most out of it? Because all of your other rants are how they have no talent.


6-10 is getting what out of it exactly? The offense was 31/32 teams. What did Judge do on Sundays that Shurmur and McAdoo didnt? Offense went backwards, D added 4 high priced players.
Some people not reading here this is based on expectations, not skills  
Bramton1 : 1/14/2021 12:43 pm : link
If we have a DB who historically allows catches on 75 percent of balls thrown his way and gets beat 50 percent of the time, and he allows catches 50 percent of the balls thrown his way to be caught and gets beat on 25 percent of deep balls, he still sucks, but he exceeded expectations. He'd probably get a B.
I usually read Duggan's columns  
Gman11 : 1/14/2021 12:55 pm : link
but I have as much confidence in his talent evaluation as my uncle Leo.
RE: This board is just too much on Engram  
johnnyb : 1/14/2021 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15122176 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much


This has been said for four years now. At some point you have to believe we will not get more consistent. In fact, he is consistently inconsistent.
I don't think we beat  
RollBlue : 1/14/2021 1:30 pm : link
either Cincinnati or Seattle without Engram. He had a few big plays that set up scores in both of those games. People point to the fumble he had in the Bengals game, where he had the ball punched out inches before he hit the ground stretched out, and the pick in the red zone against the Seahawks with a ball thrown behind him and he was hit by the defender just as the ball hit his hands.

I watched the WC weekend games and saw SEVERAL drops on balls that should have been caught.

I believe if Barkley comes back healthy, and they can add a number 1 type receiver, Engram will be an asset, because team won't be able to focus most of their attention on him.
Cam Brown  
ryanmkeane : 1/14/2021 1:33 pm : link
should not be incomplete. He contributed a ton this year
RE: RE: This board is just too much on Engram  
BradberryGlue : 1/14/2021 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15122340 johnnyb said:
Quote:
In comment 15122176 SirYesSir said:


Quote:


he was also very responsible for some of our wins. He's a good player, he makes more mistakes than you'd like and he needs to get more consistent.

this board's desire to throw him out of a moving car on the parkway is too much



This has been said for four years now. At some point you have to believe we will not get more consistent. In fact, he is consistently inconsistent.


Exactly, Darren Waller has reinvented himself over the span of Engram's career. Engram has not needed to reinvent himself, he knows exactly who he is....a terrible football player. He's the kind of guy you could cast in a football TV show and look the part. Hes big and fast. He's just terrible at the things football players do when playing football like running routes, catching the ball, holding onto said ball, and blocking.
RE: RE: RE: Judge grade Laughable  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2021 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15122317 BradberryGlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15122312 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 15122286 BradberryGlue said:


Quote:


I'd give him a C that is my biggest disagreement at first glance. Team went 6-10 and finished 31st in offense which is the driving force of NFL success. We won 1 game v a winning team and faced a bevy of backup QBs and Olines.

I give Judge an A at the mic where he 2 predecessors embarrassed the organization on a weekly basis. Judge can talk the talk. I will give him an A when the team walks the walk.



so you think that they have "A" talent and Judge didn't get the most out of it? Because all of your other rants are how they have no talent.



6-10 is getting what out of it exactly? The offense was 31/32 teams. What did Judge do on Sundays that Shurmur and McAdoo didnt? Offense went backwards, D added 4 high priced players.


You've been here less than two weeks and yet I've seen you reference the offense as being 31st probably over a hundred times now??

And now the D was good because of 4 "high priced players"?? I swear the misery continues here mainly because several vocal posters just keep harping on negativity post after mind-numbing post.

Fuck us all to have another repetitive dupe here. Signing up to post more shit that they do or previously did under their other handle(s)
RE: RE: RE: RE: Judge grade Laughable  
BradberryGlue : 1/14/2021 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15122466 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15122317 BradberryGlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15122312 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 15122286 BradberryGlue said:


Quote:


I'd give him a C that is my biggest disagreement at first glance. Team went 6-10 and finished 31st in offense which is the driving force of NFL success. We won 1 game v a winning team and faced a bevy of backup QBs and Olines.

I give Judge an A at the mic where he 2 predecessors embarrassed the organization on a weekly basis. Judge can talk the talk. I will give him an A when the team walks the walk.



so you think that they have "A" talent and Judge didn't get the most out of it? Because all of your other rants are how they have no talent.



6-10 is getting what out of it exactly? The offense was 31/32 teams. What did Judge do on Sundays that Shurmur and McAdoo didnt? Offense went backwards, D added 4 high priced players.



You've been here less than two weeks and yet I've seen you reference the offense as being 31st probably over a hundred times now??

And now the D was good because of 4 "high priced players"?? I swear the misery continues here mainly because several vocal posters just keep harping on negativity post after mind-numbing post.

Fuck us all to have another repetitive dupe here. Signing up to post more shit that they do or previously did under their other handle(s)


For me, the offense was 31st is the overriding story of 2020. And Im going to bring it up in critiquing the HC. When the team is literally inept at the driving force of success in the sport and Im seeing him graded as having done this fantastic job Im going to speak up. And I will also bring up the FAs added because they came with Judge. The 2020 Giants were a different team than the 2019 Giants. Judge did not just re-coach the season. "The D played better" is a simple statement. However the credit for said statement goes more to Gettleman than the coaches. It played better because we signed better players. I give Judge a C or an INC. He was not a bad HC. He got effort. He had us in games. We were 6-10. Kevin Stefanski did an A job in Cleveland. That is an A for my grading system.
I..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2021 2:44 pm : link
don't give a fuck about your grading system.

So you basically admit you are going to keep littering the board with the 31st offense narrative.

Like I said - fuck us all. Dupes are a bundle of fun.
RE: I..  
BradberryGlue : 1/14/2021 2:48 pm : link
In comment 15122500 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
don't give a fuck about your grading system.

So you basically admit you are going to keep littering the board with the 31st offense narrative.

Like I said - fuck us all. Dupes are a bundle of fun.


Why dont you ignore my posts rather than litter the board with complaints about me. Im a Giants season ticket holder who does not like where things stand. I hope to see improvements. Last i checked we watched the playoffs on tv last weekend, the season was a disaster. That is my standard for the Giants. And I dont care if you care.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2021 2:52 pm : link
Clownshow.
To be fair  
Mike from Ohio : 1/14/2021 3:00 pm : link
we have plenty of Pollyanna dupes to go along with the negative nelly dupes.

Stupid knows no bias. Just stupid.
RE: To be fair  
BradberryGlue : 1/14/2021 3:03 pm : link
In comment 15122537 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
we have plenty of Pollyanna dupes to go along with the negative nelly dupes.

Stupid knows no bias. Just stupid.


Im actually rather brilliant, the name calling seems to be cheap on here.
Fixed  
Trainmaster : 1/14/2021 3:39 pm : link
A+
Leonard Williams
James Bradberry
Graham Gano

A
Blake Martinez
Casey Kreiter

A-
Dalvin Tomlinson
Joe Judge

B+
Wayne Gallman
Austin Johnson
Dexter Lawrence
Jabrill Peppers
Logan Ryan

B
Dave Gettleman
Alfred Morris C
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton B-
Kaden Smith D
Nick Gates A-
Matt Peart B-
Kevin Zeitler
Markus Golden
B.J. Hill
Lorenzo Carter
Carter Coughlin
Tae Crowder
Darnay Holmes
Julian Love

B-
Austin Mack
Kyler Fackrell
Isaac Yiadom C-

C+
Jabaal Sheard
Ryan Lewis C-

C
Daniel Jones B-
C.J. Board
Shane Lemieux
Andrew Thomas B
David Mayo
Riley Dixon

C-
Devonta Freeman
Evan Engram D-
Levine Toilolo
Cameron Fleming
Will Hernandez
Devante Downs

D
Dion Lewis
Damion Ratley
Golden Tate

Incomplete
Saquon Barkley
Eli Penny
Dante Pettis
Eric Tomlinson
Jackson Barton
Kyle Murphy
Spencer Pulley
Chad Slade
R.J. McIntosh
Oshane Ximines
Cam Brown
Niko Lalos
Trent Harris
TJ Brunson
Madre Harper
Brandon Williams
Jarren Williams
Corey Ballentine
Xavier McKinney
Nate Ebner
Adrian Colbert
Montre Hartage
Sean Chandler
I'd lower Engram by at least one grade  
montanagiant : 1/14/2021 3:57 pm : link
Snd Slayton by one grade
RE: RE: To be fair  
Mike from Ohio : 1/14/2021 4:07 pm : link
In comment 15122542 BradberryGlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15122537 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


we have plenty of Pollyanna dupes to go along with the negative nelly dupes.

Stupid knows no bias. Just stupid.



Im actually rather brilliant, the name calling seems to be cheap on here.


Wasn't addressing you specifically. I was addressing the comment that all the dupes have negative takes on the Giants.
RE: RE: To be fair  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2021 4:08 pm : link
In comment 15122542 BradberryGlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15122537 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


we have plenty of Pollyanna dupes to go along with the negative nelly dupes.

Stupid knows no bias. Just stupid.



Im actually rather brilliant, the name calling seems to be cheap on here.


Brilliant??

Apparently your genius isn't very good at reading a room though. Your brilliance fails to comprehend that between now and the start of next season, the Giants will still be 31st in offense. And barring some rare statistical correction - it won't change the ranking from 2020.

In a room of Giant fans, the vast majority of whom are using a singular handle, we know this. If by some miracle you are still posting on this handle in August, I'm not sure what the fuck it is supposed to accomplish to tell us the giants were 31st in offense every day, multiple times until then. You may think it is insightful.

It isn't. It is just a sideshow to another dupe coming in and trolling the board and littering the page with the same talking point over and over again.
RE: RE: RE: To be fair  
BradberryGlue : 1/14/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15122618 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15122542 BradberryGlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15122537 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


we have plenty of Pollyanna dupes to go along with the negative nelly dupes.

Stupid knows no bias. Just stupid.



Im actually rather brilliant, the name calling seems to be cheap on here.



Brilliant??

Apparently your genius isn't very good at reading a room though. Your brilliance fails to comprehend that between now and the start of next season, the Giants will still be 31st in offense. And barring some rare statistical correction - it won't change the ranking from 2020.

In a room of Giant fans, the vast majority of whom are using a singular handle, we know this. If by some miracle you are still posting on this handle in August, I'm not sure what the fuck it is supposed to accomplish to tell us the giants were 31st in offense every day, multiple times until then. You may think it is insightful.

It isn't. It is just a sideshow to another dupe coming in and trolling the board and littering the page with the same talking point over and over again.


31st is where the Giants are, meaning thats where the bulk of the offseason ammo needs to focus upon.
The Giants won 6 games  
arniefez : 1/14/2021 4:16 pm : link
they beat one team with a .500 or better record. Those grades are ridiculous.
Again..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2021 4:16 pm : link
are you telling us something we don't know for the 157th time since you joined days ago??

Fucking clown
Did Lo Carter deserve a B...  
bw in dc : 1/14/2021 4:24 pm : link
playing only five games?
RE: The Giants won 6 games  
LBH15 : 1/14/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15122626 arniefez said:
Quote:
they beat one team with a .500 or better record. Those grades are ridiculous.


Yes, quite a lot of As and Bs for a 6-10 team.

Like giving out trophies at the end of the season just for participating.





How about Colt McCoy  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 1/14/2021 4:33 pm : link
If you are going by expectations, as the only quarterback on the team to beat a team with a winning record, he should get an A+

And All-Pro Engram should get an F-
RE: RE: The Giants won 6 games  
bw in dc : 1/14/2021 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15122641 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15122626 arniefez said:


Quote:


they beat one team with a .500 or better record. Those grades are ridiculous.



Yes, quite a lot of As and Bs for a 6-10 team.

Like giving out trophies at the end of the season just for participating.






Did some quick math and it looks like nearly 75% of our starters performed with excellently (A) or very good (B).

Maybe if our franchise QB didn't get a C, considering he was surrounded by so much "very good", our record would be better...?

;)
I presume the Duggan Grading Scale  
LBH15 : 1/14/2021 4:49 pm : link
must have the 14-2 Kansas City Chiefs with:

- 42 A++++
- 10 A++
- 1 B (Deandre Baker)
RE: So you give Matt Peart a  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/14/2021 6:15 pm : link
In comment 15122172 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Really!!!

It's odd for sure, but given the caveat regarding the expectations for each player, it's not indefensible to grade Peart higher than Thomas relative to the expectations for each going into the season.

I personally wouldn't give Peart the higher grade (I think at some point, you have to still judge players vs. the same position group regardless of expectations and Thomas made much more progress over the second half of the season than Peart did), but I can understand the logic in doing so even though I disagree with it.
RE: So as mentioned above  
Eman11 : 1/14/2021 10:44 pm : link
In comment 15122269 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
this is not based solely on the talent of the player.

Peart was a B because little was expected of a 3rd round pick in his rookie year and to an extent he exceeded expectations. Thomas is a C not because he was a lesser player than Peart, but because he was the #4 pick and expectations were high. For roughly half the year he did not meet those expectations, and in the second half he did, so an average grade.

There are a lot of B and above players on a 6-10 team, which means very little was expected of this team this year, not that most of the players are above average.

Similar years from young players will probably draw a lower grade next year because expectations should be higher for a developing player (with hopefully a full training camp and pre-season).


Well thats called grading on a curve and maybe I missed it but I dont think he said he was grading on a curve.

Players should be graded on their play and not expectations of their play based on where they were drafted.

If a guy played at a B level, his play deserves a B regardless of if an A or C was expected out of him. When I took a test I was graded on that test, not marked up or down because more or less was expected of me.
RE: Peart a B, Thomas a C?  
SGMen : 1/15/2021 5:02 am : link
In comment 15122237 Victor in CT said:
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Duggan an F
Agrred!

Personally, I'd use tiers of 95-100; 85-95; 75-85; 65-75; etc., as that is likely closer to the truth.

The only A+ on this team is Gano and Bradberry.
RE: RE: So as mentioned above  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/15/2021 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15123028 Eman11 said:
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In comment 15122269 Mike from Ohio said:


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this is not based solely on the talent of the player.

Peart was a B because little was expected of a 3rd round pick in his rookie year and to an extent he exceeded expectations. Thomas is a C not because he was a lesser player than Peart, but because he was the #4 pick and expectations were high. For roughly half the year he did not meet those expectations, and in the second half he did, so an average grade.

There are a lot of B and above players on a 6-10 team, which means very little was expected of this team this year, not that most of the players are above average.

Similar years from young players will probably draw a lower grade next year because expectations should be higher for a developing player (with hopefully a full training camp and pre-season).



Well thats called grading on a curve and maybe I missed it but I dont think he said he was grading on a curve.

Players should be graded on their play and not expectations of their play based on where they were drafted.

If a guy played at a B level, his play deserves a B regardless of if an A or C was expected out of him. When I took a test I was graded on that test, not marked up or down because more or less was expected of me.

That's not actually what grading on a curve is. That might be why Duggan didn't say he was doing that.

He's not saying that the best lineman gets an A because someone has to be the best even in a mediocre group, and whoever that person is, gets an A. That's what grading on a curve is; it's determining the quantity of each grade letter matches the normal distribution curve, and then assigning the letter grade to the corresponding number grade when ranking those number grades in order (which makes the numerical tiers irrelevant).

What Duggan did is exactly what he said he did: determine (in his own opinion, presumably) what the expectations were for each player heading into the season, and then (again, in his own opinion), attempt to judge how that player's performance exceeded or fell short of those expectations.

It's not a curved grade, which is based on relative scoring to one's peers. This isn't that. This is an individual grading system based on expectations and what appears to be zero consideration of comparable players in each grade.

It's still a massively flawed system - IMO, it's worse than just assigning grades on each player's actual performance agnostic of expectations. Because to do it the way Duggan did it would imply that any UDFA that stays on the active roster all season should be a B+ or better (because they have no expectations), and a player who enters the season as a bonafide all-pro probably can't do any better than a B, and even that would require a HOF type season.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Judge grade Laughable  
Rafflee : 1/15/2021 7:41 pm : link
In comment 15122490 BradberryGlue said:
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In comment 15122466 FatMan in Charlotte said:


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In comment 15122317 BradberryGlue said:


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In comment 15122312 Victor in CT said:


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In comment 15122286 BradberryGlue said:


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I'd give him a C that is my biggest disagreement at first glance. Team went 6-10 and finished 31st in offense which is the driving force of NFL success. We won 1 game v a winning team and faced a bevy of backup QBs and Olines.

I give Judge an A at the mic where he 2 predecessors embarrassed the organization on a weekly basis. Judge can talk the talk. I will give him an A when the team walks the walk.



so you think that they have "A" talent and Judge didn't get the most out of it? Because all of your other rants are how they have no talent.



6-10 is getting what out of it exactly? The offense was 31/32 teams. What did Judge do on Sundays that Shurmur and McAdoo didnt? Offense went backwards, D added 4 high priced players.



You've been here less than two weeks and yet I've seen you reference the offense as being 31st probably over a hundred times now??

And now the D was good because of 4 "high priced players"?? I swear the misery continues here mainly because several vocal posters just keep harping on negativity post after mind-numbing post.

Fuck us all to have another repetitive dupe here. Signing up to post more shit that they do or previously did under their other handle(s)



For me, the offense was 31st is the overriding story of 2020. And Im going to bring it up in critiquing the HC. When the team is literally inept at the driving force of success in the sport and Im seeing him graded as having done this fantastic job Im going to speak up. And I will also bring up the FAs added because they came with Judge. The 2020 Giants were a different team than the 2019 Giants. Judge did not just re-coach the season. "The D played better" is a simple statement. However the credit for said statement goes more to Gettleman than the coaches. It played better because we signed better players. I give Judge a C or an INC. He was not a bad HC. He got effort. He had us in games. We were 6-10. Kevin Stefanski did an A job in Cleveland. That is an A for my grading system.


The Offense was 31st
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