Quarterback - it's becoming *somewhat* clear that they are going to stick with Jones as the guy in 2021. Unless they have an incredibly high opinion of Justin Fields, Trey Lance, or Zach Wilson, and 1 of these guys were to fall to 11, that they said hey, we absolutely, unequivocally, cannot pass up this opportunity (which I don't believe they would think that about these prospects outside of Lawrence), it looks like Jones is our guy for the immediate future.
Result - we won't be taking QB
Skill players - here's where it gets interesting, as you could have as many as 3-4 skill guys already gone by the time we pick, or, you could argue they could all be there based on how the draft is going (a run on QB, defense, and OL). Based on prior DG drafts, and the recent partnership with Judge and how the 2020 draft went, I'd imagine the board looks like this, in order of preference: Ja'Marr Chase, DeVonta Smith, Kyle Pitts, Jaylen Waddle, Reshod Bateman. I do not expect Bateman to be in the discussion at 11.
Result - draft Chase or Smith (if either are available, in that order) and then seriously consider Pitts or Waddle if the first two are off the board. Gun to my head, I think Judge would want a #1 outside caliber receiver at 11, if the grade takes you there. If Judge gets some good intel on Waddle and they think he can be a Tyreek Hill type weapon, decent chance he's the guy if the other two are gone. Pitts is a wildcard for me. He's probably going to end up being a great playmaker in the NFL, just depends on if we want to draft a hybrid TE that high.
OL: Sewell will be gone, but there's a decent chance Rashawn Slater is available, along with Alija Vera-Tucker out of USC. Christian Darrisaw is in the mix as well, but not sure he screams 11th pick for me.
Result: Seriously consider Slater if he's there, otherwise you pass on OL at 11.
DB: Patrick Surtain II and Caleb Farley are the only options you consider at 11 if you're picking a DB. I still think that if Surtain is sitting there and their top WR target is gone, that they'd have a really hard time passing on him. This would make it easy for Gettleman.
Result: Draft Surtain II if available, do your homework on Farley but ultimately pass on him
DL: It seems to be Paye or bust for the DL with the 11th pick. I don't think Rousseau is a guy that DG would take, he seems like too much of a project, and I expect DG to go bargain shopping for edge rushers in FA. Paye would immediately make this DL a force, but in a way he might be too similar to Leonard Williams. Great against the run, stout all around, can rush the passer a bit, but is not a true edge rusher in that sense. He does kinda seem like a man among boys out there, which I could see DG going nuts over.
Result: Draft Paye if WR and DB targets are gone, take Paye over OL
At the end of the day, I think there's 6 players that Giants will have circled. Chase, Smith, Surtain, Pitts, Waddle, and Paye. I didn't include Parsons as I imagine he will be gone. If he's somehow there you don't think twice about it.
My early prediction is that Patrick Surtain II will be in Giant blue come April.
If you can’t get the guys who are the top WR’s, I’ll take the guy who’s practiced against them every day his whole college career, and is coached by Saban taboot.
I could see WR in the second round. I think Jones could really use a reliable vet at WR, not a draft pick that we hope has instant success.
Paye would also be a nice addition, does he fit what they want? Not sure, but he can rush the passer and moves well for his size. Reminds me of Terrell Suggs.
For me 11 comes down to what happens prior:
Scenario 1: We retain Williams and add a Golladay or Robinson in FA - In this scenario I think we are in the BPA territory, where we can do edge rusher, corner, or take a chance on a guy like Lance if we have a big upside grade on him
Scenario 2: Williams leaves or they don't get a WR in FA - In this scenario I think they need to address whichever spot was missed above, if Williams walks a guy like Rousseau, if a WR isnt added Pitts or Batement
Scenario 3: We lose Williams and don't get a WR
This is worst case scenario and I think it would leave the Giants in no mans land as a franchise
We can sign a WR so FA will tell us a lot. I don't think we will spend on another CB, in contrast. I think CB is very much in play at 11.
Bradberry is excellent, we just paid Ryan. Add Peppers, Love, McKinney, and Holmes and it's a pretty good secondary. They're coached by Graham. Strength.
Strengthen a strength. Unless the player available is clearly a better prospect (I'm thinking Devonta Smith but he won't be there at 11) don't use premium draft picks simply to make weaknesses merely less weak.
Surtain is a good player that can actually improve the team out of the gate by making the strong side of the ball stronger. That's how you create an identity.
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We need WR or edge 1 and 1a. We have a #1 CB we don't have a #1 WR or #1 edge. We can get decent CB talent in round 2 or 3. A true #1WR will make both Slayton and Shepard better. A #1 edge is similar They will have a ripple effect that other acquisitions won't.
We can sign a WR so FA will tell us a lot. I don't think we will spend on another CB, in contrast. I think CB is very much in play at 11.
Fair if we get a top FA WR. But along with Williams that's two $20m/per players as FA. That's more than we spent last year and we have less money this year. Hard to see how we do that.
I doubt Surtain gets by Dallas at 10, leaving us with a choice from among Waddle, Pitts, Farley, Paye or OL.
I’d go Pitts and get a WR in rounds 3 or 4. 2nd round seems like better value for #2 CB or developmental Edge to add to our stable of returning young guys.
D Smith won't be there. I also like Pitts because of what good TEs can do for a quarterback and this entire offense, also pushing Engram out of snaps.
But I'd look for Surtain first.
Patrick Surtain ..probably top ten, certainly never makes it past Dallas.
Four qb, 5 position players likely gone: Sewell, Chase, Smith, Patrick Surtain, Parsons...
Remembering it never goes the way you think, the following talent might be available less one...
Calab Farley, Kyle Pitt (my favorites) Zareen Collins, Jaycee Horn, Rousseau, Christiab Barmae, Ojular, Jaylon Waddle.PLUS...
Last time we picked near here (2014 #12) OBJ, Aaron Donald and Zack Martin were waiting .....one way or another there is going to be superb Talent available at number 11
I have some Twisted logic it keeps me from a wide receiver. I think the return of saquon is almost like getting a superb wide receiver and I think judge/ Garrett will exploit that Talent. I also think will pick up someone in free agency. And my perversion extends 2 Evan Ephraim, because I think _Sans the pressure to be their Chief threat - that he will settle into a more productive role and even provide nightmares for defensive coordinators.
I think the offensive line can be very good without any additions. I think Jones will play very well. So my thought is, and maybe it's wishful thinking, that this offense can be very good next year. Provided saquon stays healthy.
I think we can replace and possibly upgrade Zeitler and Tomlinson on day 2 by going OG and DT with our 2nd and 3rd round picks.
In FA re-sign Leo, go after J.C. Jackson, Kenny Golladay or Allen Robinson AND maybe a edge guy too if we can... I mean DG might as well go for the gusto this offseason... this rebuild can't keep crawling toward the finish line eventually it has to take off running. It's probably now or never for DG, his time is running out, swing for the fences Getty!
Trade down and get more picks.
While I agree about WR (lets make that passing game weapon) I disagree about ER over CB.
Because we don't know what Judge and/or Graham thinks they can get out of a hopefully fully healthy Carter and Ximines, or how they anticipate Brown or Coughlin or Fackrell (if they bring him back) to contribute going forward to the "ER" group.
Aside from Fackrell, those are guys the GIANTS drafted and are developing in house. Whereas the CB cupboard of in-house picked prospects is BARE (aside from Love) if indeed reports about Beal are true. Baker's long gone, Beal maybe soon to follow, and until like yesterday they thought Love was a S, not a CB.
I get most here say "Pshaw" to the group at ER consisting of Ximines, Carter, Brown and Coughlin but those are 4 guys the Giants drafted, and I'll be surprised if they don't bring back Fackrell - he should certainly be modest enough in price.
Vs who? Yiadom? Ryan Lewis? And you need plenty of corners even after you fill a 1B opposite Bradbury.
I think corner is the biggest need outside of QB. If not one of those two then I the best of OT, front seven personnel available. Hate going OT again but this line still has questions. Two bookends going forward is not a bad situation. It will open the playbook.
I don't like a WR at this stage. Prone to injuries and we have already lost two first round picks to injury and Cruz. I also think with how the college game plays today you can find more quality WR's after round 1.
Build the guts of the team if not CB or QB.
The Giants have a lot of needs and are likely to have their choice of several top prospects at positions of need — and someone is likely to fall that we fans all think couldn't possibly be there at 11.
If that is a QB prospect who falls, a trade down would be great.
Bradberry is excellent, we just paid Ryan. Add Peppers, Love, McKinney, and Holmes and it's a pretty good secondary. They're coached by Graham. Strength.
Strengthen a strength. Unless the player available is clearly a better prospect (I'm thinking Devonta Smith but he won't be there at 11) don't use premium draft picks simply to make weaknesses merely less weak.
Surtain is a good player that can actually improve the team out of the gate by making the strong side of the ball stronger. That's how you create an identity.
It would also allow Graham to go back to man coverage which, according to Judge, they had to scrap early in the year because it wasn't working.
I think this team is missing some explosiveness or speed off the edge; adding an OLB or Edge who has that speed in the second or later, and may be somehwat one dimensional, would be a good compliment to adding to the stregth of the secondary.
If we grab a big name FA WR then I see the pick being CB
If we grab a CB2 in FA, then it's gotta be a WR
I'd take the best WR at #11.
Suspect the Giants would prefer WR. See hole, plug hole. I don't think Waddle will be picked that high tho. Wildcard would be OT or possibly Pitts.
Let's see if there's a Combines and generally stuff begins to leak out afterwards.
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A WR is still going to have Jones throwing to him. Not a strength. Garrett is probably still the OC. Not a strength. That side of the ball is a weakness.
Bradberry is excellent, we just paid Ryan. Add Peppers, Love, McKinney, and Holmes and it's a pretty good secondary. They're coached by Graham. Strength.
Strengthen a strength. Unless the player available is clearly a better prospect (I'm thinking Devonta Smith but he won't be there at 11) don't use premium draft picks simply to make weaknesses merely less weak.
Surtain is a good player that can actually improve the team out of the gate by making the strong side of the ball stronger. That's how you create an identity.
It would also allow Graham to go back to man coverage which, according to Judge, they had to scrap early in the year because it wasn't working.
I think this team is missing some explosiveness or speed off the edge; adding an OLB or Edge who has that speed in the second or later, and may be somehwat one dimensional, would be a good compliment to adding to the stregth of the secondary.
I agree with this. It’s early in the process so a lot can change but the minute Graham made the commitment to come back and pass up HC opportunities I couldn’t help but think they would go out of their way to reward his commitment and give him the players he needs to run his system. H
Like you said, Graham is a man to man guy and wanted to run more man but it failed miserably early in the season so they went to a ton of zone. I don’t think Graham or Judge prioritize an edge rusher as much as most and certainly not as much as CB it their past history of working with Belichick has any influence. If I had to guess I’d say the favorite right now would be Surtain or Farley if the grades are close with other players. Obviously if they have a grade much higher on another player at a different position then all bets are off. But again, things are always fluid this time of year. The scouting and player movement is barely even started at this point
1. Penei Sewell
2. Smith
3. Chase
4. Parson
5. Waddle
6. Surtain
7. Rousseau (though he scares me.)
8. Kyle Pitts
9. Jaycee Horn
10. Caleb Farley
11. Bateman
RB Najee Harris - if i didn't devalue the position he would be in there.
Surtain could be in play at number 11 especially if 4 QB's are taken in th w top 9 picks.
You guys know how much Jerry Jones likes to trade down
Completely agree, for me it is Surtain than Smith. Surtain is like a young Darelle Revis, a true shutdown corner who tackles like a safety. The only small hesitation I have about Smith is size, but he is such a great route runner that I think he will still excel when he loses a step.
2) The Giants have the worst offense in the NFL;
3) Simply, the Giants will not win if they can not score enough to keep up with better teams.
Therefore, the Giants should take Chase, Smith, or Waddle if available at 11; if not, take the BPA. Then, in Rounds 2 and 3, take the best WR's available. This scenario would not bother me as several excellent WR's should be available in each round.
Chase is not NFL fast & agile enough; I like Smith or Waddle.
Really/ So if running back is the best player, you take him, no questions asked?
2) The Giants have the worst offense in the NFL;
3) Simply, the Giants will not win if they can not score enough to keep up with better teams.
Therefore, the Giants should take Chase, Smith, or Waddle if available at 11; if not, take the BPA. Then, in Rounds 2 and 3, take the best WR's available. This scenario would not bother me as several excellent WR's should be available in each round.
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The highest and best player on the board, regardless of position.
Really/ So if running back is the best player, you take him, no questions asked?
outside of pitts i say go defense (LB or CB) or OL
*Re-sign Williams & Tomlinson.
*Sign Golladay
*Draft Rousseau
These are my "tea leaves" predictions.
I've been following the draft a long time. I've got the chances at almost 0% that Surtain is available.
For me, that's Smith or Pitts for the Giants. Smith will be gone, so I'd draft Pitts at 11 and then look for a CB at the top of the second round, someone like Asante Samuel Jr. as an example.
You gotta have both DTs collapsing the pocket and an edge attacking the outside. If there’s nobody coming at the edge like a defensive end or a rushbacker, the quarterback has all the time he has to in the pocket; playing contain with the DTs worked about as well as a hole in the head for the Giants against Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield, to name a couple quarterbacks.
For me, that's Smith or Pitts for the Giants. Smith will be gone, so I'd draft Pitts at 11 and then look for a CB at the top of the second round, someone like Asante Samuel Jr. as an example.
that would a dream 1st and 2nd picks
Season Team Games SackUA SackA Sacks TFL Tackles FF
2020 Michigan 4 2 0 2 4 16 0
this guy seems a better choice to me
Jaelen Phillips*, DE, Miami
3: pass defences
1:interception
15.5 tfl
8:sacks
45 total tackles
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They seem to prioritize collapsing the pocket and getting at the QB's feet through the A and B gaps rather than getting upfield with speed and beating the tackles outside. That's why prioritizing Leonard Williams in FA makes sense...but I don't see them looking for a stereotypical "edge" rusher.
You gotta have both DTs collapsing the pocket and an edge attacking the outside. If there’s nobody coming at the edge like a defensive end or a rushbacker, the quarterback has all the time he has to in the pocket; playing contain with the DTs worked about as well as a hole in the head for the Giants against Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield, to name a couple quarterbacks, who picked us apart.
I think we can replace and possibly upgrade Zeitler and Tomlinson on day 2 by going OG and DT with our 2nd and 3rd round picks.
In FA re-sign Leo, go after J.C. Jackson, Kenny Golladay or Allen Robinson AND maybe a edge guy too if we can... I mean DG might as well go for the gusto this offseason... this rebuild can't keep crawling toward the finish line eventually it has to take off running. It's probably now or neve
r for DG, his time is running out, swing for the fences Getty!
Curious. Who in the past 8 years have the Giants drafted at 2nd or 3rd rounds who would have been replacements or upgrades to what Tomlinson and Zeitler have shown other than Tomlinson himself? Hernandez? Hill? You are overvaluing draft picks and devaluing current players.
WR Chase (likely gone)
WR Smith (might not make it)
WR Waddle
TE Pitts (not a WR but a playmaker in the passing game)
EDGE Ojulari
CB Surtain
Maybes:
EDGE Paye
CB Farley
Don't like:
EDGE Rousseau (not bendy enough, looks more like a 4-3 DE)
Sleeper:
EDGE Joseph Ossai
I'd take the best WR at #11.
Yes 100%....Our defence played well enough to win 3 or 4 other games..We lost them because of no points..I know Barkley was missing..But with a true #1 WR and Barkley back like new,that might give us 14 pts per game more then 2020's points per game total..I also think we canmot
afford a WR free agent..A FA for the defence money wise might be good..
Why? I am thinking that due to his contract and our desire to rebuild with youth, the cap implications this year with a reduced $$$; and the need to protect D. Jones, an upgrade interior (say a 3rd year guy) to replace Zeitler cheap?
My logic is with the 2nd you can still get a WR and with the 4th a RB perhaps as we need to upgrade skill positions and depth.
I dunno, it just came to mind as a possibility: a trade that is.
Patrick Surtain ..probably top ten, certainly never makes it past Dallas.
Four qb, 5 position players likely gone: Sewell, Chase, Smith, Patrick Surtain, Parsons...
Remembering it never goes the way you think, the following talent might be available less one...
Calab Farley, Kyle Pitt (my favorites) Zareen Collins, Jaycee Horn, Rousseau, Christiab Barmae, Ojular, Jaylon Waddle.PLUS...
Last time we picked near here (2014 #12) OBJ, Aaron Donald and Zack Martin were waiting .....one way or another there is going to be superb Talent available at number 11
I have some Twisted logic it keeps me from a wide receiver. I think the return of saquon is almost like getting a superb wide receiver and I think judge/ Garrett will exploit that Talent. I also think will pick up someone in free agency. And my perversion extends 2 Evan Ephraim, because I think _Sans the pressure to be their Chief threat - that he will settle into a more productive role and even provide nightmares for defensive coordinators.
I think the offensive line can be very good without any additions. I think Jones will play very well. So my thought is, and maybe it's wishful thinking, that this offense can be very good next year. Provided saquon stays healthy.
First of all, "potentially fragile"? Every player in the NFL is potentially fragile. You wouldn't want Marvin Harrison on your team? Tyreek Hill? Deontay Harris?
Then you talk about Saquon Barkley. He is not potentially fragile. He IS fragile. He has missed almost half of the games in his three seasons.
Finally, the OL is not settled, and I will be very surprised if the Giants do not sign a vet FA with talent or draft more OL in one of the top four rounds.
what's the joe judge quote? tell me what he can do not what he can't. and this guy can be darren waller
Why? I am thinking that due to his contract and our desire to rebuild with youth, the cap implications this year with a reduced $$$; and the need to protect D. Jones, an upgrade interior (say a 3rd year guy) to replace Zeitler cheap?
My logic is with the 2nd you can still get a WR and with the 4th a RB perhaps as we need to upgrade skill positions and depth.
I dunno, it just came to mind as a possibility: a trade that is.
i will believe DG will trade down when i see it. he NEVER has