I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
much earlier on in the thread, bw could have just saved himself the effort to spin if he didn't step into something he didn't know the details of.
Now we are getting anything he can dredge up, all of which precedes the GM hire.
Not posting that it was Rhule's hire could have avoided all of this, but even after that, a simple "I didn't know the details" would have sufficed.
Instead we are going to get a ton of spin and posts anytime he can find a source that comes close to saying Rhule is in charge. Maybe he'll quote a source that has 4 chihuahuas next time....
that's Dator's first article about the Panthers I can find, he's quoting no sources other than a comment Tepper made in his press conference letting Hurney go, and he just wrote an article last week that Nickleodean's broadcast of the playoff game would improve coverage of every sport.
Even for you this is weak as hell.
But it's a common theme about the Rhule hire. Did you really not recall this when Rhule was hired? You live in Charlotte...right?
So instead of focusing on the content, you try to discredit the writer. Beautiful...
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Actually the Gettleman reference is yet more evidence the guy isn't close to the team. I would seriously doubt he wrote that even talking to anyone with the organization.
Yes, defend at all costs, How could something unflattering ever be said about DG.
multiple chihuahua's, I'm sticking with my original position because I didn't just make this up out of thin air. I referenced Kirwan.
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Had Mccagagnan fired and hand picked his buddy Joe Douglas as GM. Gase wielded a ton of power too. How’d that work out for him? Gase being involved in the interview/hiring process and having some say in the hire didn’t make him Douglas’ boss.
Ruhle being involved in the interviews and being a part of the decision making isn’t unprecedented. It also doesn’t mean very much and it certainly doesn’t make him the “CEO” of anything. Like FMIC said, if you honestly think that Rhule made this hire on his own, with final say, then you do not know Tepper very well.
I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
Yes on the control.
Rhule didn’t interview though with NYG right? He called and they all concluded there was no point in him coming.
that actually interviewed Tepper about his philosophy and is from the team. Read it and try to grasp what it is saying about there being many levels of decision-making and trying to get out of "siloed" thinking. The GM search and hiring committee is illustrative of that approach. An excerpt:
Quote:
"I'm trying to figure out what should be the right structure for an organization today," he said. "Just because there's been the same structure in the NFL forever in a lot of places doesn't mean it should be the same structure now."
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
multiple chihuahua's, I'm sticking with my original position because I didn't just make this up out of thin air. I referenced Kirwan.
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Yes - I doubt it. If Rhule is being handed full control, why does Tepper always talk about group-think. About collaboration. About data-driven decisions?? Why doesn't he just defer all questions and say, "Talk to the boss"?
Nobody inside the building thinks Rhule has absolute power, luckily that also includes Rhule. Like I said - you will just keep beating on this to save face when staying silent initially would have just been the best move.
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
Bw is THEE most shit-stirring, bullshit artist posters on BBI. Terps is just negative and doesnt make shit up, but bw adopts arguments that are either flat out unsubscribed and unsupported, BY ANYONE, and then he argues those arguments until you either relent, or the sun comes up.
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
that actually interviewed Tepper about his philosophy and is from the team. Read it and try to grasp what it is saying about there being many levels of decision-making and trying to get out of "siloed" thinking. The GM search and hiring committee is illustrative of that approach. An excerpt:
Quote:
"I'm trying to figure out what should be the right structure for an organization today," he said. "Just because there's been the same structure in the NFL forever in a lot of places doesn't mean it should be the same structure now."
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
Tepper's vision - ( New Window )
I don't have an issue with any of that. That's how Tepper ran his hedge fun. Seeking opinions from different corners of the organization.
But when it comes time to make final football decisions on building the team, it's Rhule's call. You don't pay a first time HC in the NFL $8M+ per year to cede decision making to the GM. NFW.
Q: Are you concerned about the perception that Rhule is in charge of things now?
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
Who is mocking you? I haven't said you are making anything up. You cited that there was a very deliberate process in place to evaluate GM candidates. That makes complete sense.
But I said Rhule got his GM. And found Kirwan - a guy who has been in league circles a long long time - to be very credible. But because I wouldn't fall in lockstep with that, you became your typical bully self.
Which is fine. I get it. And can maneuver around it.
Bw is THEE most shit-stirring, bullshit artist posters on BBI. Terps is just negative and doesnt make shit up, but bw adopts arguments that are either flat out unsubscribed and unsupported, BY ANYONE, and then he argues those arguments until you either relent, or the sun comes up.
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
Don’t agree chopper. Both on the needed break and bw.
Says more than enough positives. To name a few...on overall coaching, Graham’s abilities, many of the defensive players, Gates. He also provides plenty of negatives as well that, while are his opinions, I find pretty damn aligned to current situation this losing team is trying to break out of. Most importantly, he allows for any debate of his views and doesn’t do it berating every poster like they do to him. Case in point Mr. Indicative who started this thread.
Q: Are you concerned about the perception that Rhule is in charge of things now?
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I did read that, yes. But it's a bit unclear. The writer asks about the perception that "Rhule is in charge now". I wasn't sure what that meant. The entire team operations?
Because then Tepper says in the answer part that Rhule has a lot to do with running the football team...and there will not be much change to what's in place right now.
Isn't the structure in place now - which isn't changing - that Rhule is in charge of all football decisions?
sure you mean to use the term "deep throat" as one you'll listen to as a credible source. Of course you are mocking - you just picked the wrong team to start bullshitting about.
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
Did I get everything right that you wanted me to say about you?
:- )
I disagree with you in ur description of bw's views and what he says about the team. I dont care about that aspect. But all he does is disagree with more founded opinions with unfounded negative theories. He's literally exhausting.
sure you mean to use the term "deep throat" as one you'll listen to as a credible source. Of course you are mocking - you just picked the wrong team to start bullshitting about.
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
What are you twelve? "Deep throat" is a common term used about unnamed sources. Are you suddenly getting thin skinned on me...geesh.
Rhule is not in charge of all football decisions. I just mentioned above what he is in charge of. They have Directors of Player Personnel and Pro Personnel who operate very much like other orgs. They have a Director of Analytics that works closely with the other areas.
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
Rhule is not in charge of all football decisions. I just mentioned above what he is in charge of. They have Directors of Player Personnel and Pro Personnel who operate very much like other orgs. They have a Director of Analytics that works closely with the other areas.
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
I never said "extraordinary power" as is if Tepper reports to Rhule. I said, and this has been corroborated by scores of league sources, that Rhule has the same set-up with football decision at Reid and Belichick. Do you dispute that? Is that suddenly wrong? I'm all ears on that one...
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
I'm enjoying the banter. No effort, really.
And I did not mean - at all - that your source was a schmuck. One of Bill Bradley guy's at the WaPo called Woodward and Bernstein's source for Watergate "Deep Throat" because he was deep cover. And they couldn't give out the identity.
" corroborated by scores of league sources" and yet not corroborated by Tepper.
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
" corroborated by scores of league sources" and yet not corroborated by Tepper.
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
Not sure why you are playing dumb on this. But like Reid and Belichick, Rhule does have final say on all football moves. Seriously, are you going to dispute that?
There’s very few organizations that don’t give their HC final say on
53 so no idea why ESPN decided to throw that in the article. When it comes to actual personnel decisions that’s where each team is different. Aka who to bring in and draft decision making authority.
The only person he answers to is Tepper, and if you don't think Rhule had the deciding voice/veto on this GM hire you're high.
Ok...I just want to make sure Im not puffed out....
The owner pays the salaries of both the HC (Matt Rhule) and the GM. So the owner lets Rhule make the decision on the GM he wants right? But the owner has to pay both salaries right? Soooo, if Rhule's team looks like shit next year, and the year after that, and the GM, who was hired by the HC in your scenario, fails to equip the team with enough players durimg his tenure, the owner might have to fire both guys, and pay the GM's salary for the length of the contract because of a decision he let someone else make?
Sorry, but YOU'RE high. Successful businessmen allow insight into their businesses, but the final say comes from Tepper.
Matt Rhule had the final say in GM hire over the owner of the team....the sequel to Terps' saying the Ravens shouldve traded Lamar Jackson after his MVP season.
You keep bringing up what I said about Lamar Jackson out of the blue for reasons I don't understand, and you always get it wrong. So I'll lay it out for you...
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
The only person he answers to is Tepper, and if you don't think Rhule had the deciding voice/veto on this GM hire you're high.
Exactly. Tepper made Rhule one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL right out of Baylor.
Just go back and read the events leading to Rhule’s hire, and how ecstatic Tepper was about getting his man. Look at this quote after the hire...
Quote:
"I think Matt Rhule can come in here and build an organization for the next 30 or 40 years," Tepper said a few hours after Rhule agreed to terms. "He can build it."
I’m sure FMiC is correct that Tepper and the organization ran a thorough search looking for a GM. That’s been reported elsewhere as well. And how they brought in between 15-20 candidates and used an independent firm. It wasn’t like they brought in a former GM with ties to the organization to lead the search, btw... ; )
And I’m sure Tepper was the guy who called Fitterer to make the formal offer, etc, etc. But there is absolutely no way Tepper got there without Rhule signing off. NFW. He’s way too invested in the guy. Which in essence makes this Rhule’s hire.
The strange thing here is I’m not a Rhule guy at all. I didn’t want the Giants to touch him for a variety of reasons. So I have no preconceived bias to come here and make this strong case for him.
But this isn’t hard to follow to connect the dots. Rhule is second in command with the Panthers behind Tepper. And he got the GM he wanted.
The only person he answers to is Tepper, and if you don't think Rhule had the deciding voice/veto on this GM hire you're high.
Of course Rhule had an up or down vote. An owner doesn't commit to $62 mill for a HC, then not listen to his needs. Why would you hire a GM to be contentious with the HC? Once you do this you live or die with the HC.
Both FMiC and bw are correct and arguing from different POVs. There is no doubt the committee decided on the GM and that Rhule was part of the process. There is little doubt that the GM was approved by Rhule but he was also approved by Tepper and the other members of the committee.
So you can say equally that this was Tepper's guy, Rhule's guy and the guy of every member of the committee.
"connect the dots" line used so often absent of actual evidence. Again - this is going to be spun every chance bw gets to reiterate that Rhule got his GM.
No. The Panthers got their GM. Rhule had input on the hire. Saying this is Rhule getting "his guy" makes it seem that he's the overriding vote. That isn't what happened.
You want to play connect the dots? The Panthers have a group of several people in on the interviews. They connect with 12-15 candidates in a first run. They narrow the list down to 4 for second interviews - a process that has been taking up most of their time since the season ended. They've spent several hours as a team debating the fit of the people. The committee recommended their final choice and Tepper makes the offer.
In what world does that indicate that Rhule was the overriding voice or the driver? In a world where a guy steps into a thread without knowing the facts and now will just try to steer a false narrative to avoid being wrong.
By the way - at the end of the process, Tepper has been ecstatic that they did this as a group. He is really happy right now.
You should stick to connecting dots with the Giants. You don't seem any better at doing it with them, but at least you get a much more interested audience to peddle the bullshit to.
You keep bringing up what I said about Lamar Jackson out of the blue for reasons I don't understand, and you always get it wrong. So I'll lay it out for you...
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
This is the dilemma with QBs costing too much money. In general, QBs and DEs are paid far too much money percentage wise vs the rest of the team. Just because you are a starting QB does not make you equal with Patrick Mahomes. Of all the young QBs out there Lamar Jackson may be the closest in single importance to his team. But because a large part of his offensive style is running he is more prone to a massive injury(although I think he is built for running as much as he does). Josh Allen is looking to be the next.
So does Baltimore commit huge dollars to a guy who without his running ability is a question mark at QB? Good luck with that one. One look a Dak Prescott's injury(a very stout QB) should give every team pause.
No doubt Lamar is a top 10, even top 5 player in the NFL. Will he be in another 5 years?
You keep bringing up what I said about Lamar Jackson out of the blue for reasons I don't understand, and you always get it wrong. So I'll lay it out for you...
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
Ok, so your position with Lamar is either pay him or trade him. Got all your bases covered there, I guess.
Good post. There’s no way a strong individual like Tepper would hire a GM that he didn’t think was a very good candidate, and the same goes for Rhule. There’s no way for us to know exactly how the dynamics of the decisionmaking process are beyond that. In fact, I think the participants in the search probably each have a different view of what happened.
No ones mentioned Fitterer was originally hired into the NFL by Ernie Accorsi, with the Giants, Ernie strikes again!
The NFL.com piece on the hire characterized it as “lengthy”. That suggests that there wasn’t a leading candidate from the get-go, like there are in certain searches (eg the Tom Coughlin hire). So that suggests that Rhule and Fitterer aren’t tied together in any particular way. In fact, nothing in their history suggests any serious overlap.
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
Carolina set up an organized process to find and evaluate
candidates. Their formed committee looked at a lot of guys and went thru and narrowed down the list to four candidates and then to a final one. Without question, Carolina can say their committee ultimately chose the GM.
The NFL.com piece on the hire characterized it as “lengthy”. That suggests that there wasn’t a leading candidate from the get-go, like there are in certain searches (eg the Tom Coughlin hire). So that suggests that Rhule and Fitterer aren’t tied together in any particular way. In fact, nothing in their history suggests any serious overlap.
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
I’ve echoed nearly all of that above.
The only piece I’ve maintained, however, is this is really Rhule’s GM because Tepper wouldn’t hire a GM - because a he ultimately writes the checks - without Rhule’s final approval.
If Tepper was very fond of candidate but Rhule wasn’t, do you think Tepper still makes the hire? Of course not. And why not? Because Tepper knows Rhule is THE football guy and knows how and what he wants to build. So I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say this would ultimately come down to Rhule getting the guy he’s most comfortable with...
Tepper has to be on board as well. But Rhule is the key.
that the GM chosen is the one Rhule would be "most comfortable" with. But yes, he was part of the decision process. But here's the thing - out of the list of candidates, Rhule initially recommended three people to be interviewed. Fitterer was not one of them.
That doesn't mean Rhule is not on board with the choice - it means the process played out as they intended.
But we know why bw wants it said this was a Rhule hire - because for the Giants he characterizes everything as a Mara hire. This hire was done exactly as Tepper envisioned it would. It was a detailed process. It was data driven. And it was collaborative. He does not want fiefdoms or power pockets in the organization, so the idea Rhule pounds the table to get the GM he wants isn't just laughable, it is incorrect.
Presumably they got a guy that both the owner and the coach
are excited about working with. Good teams that run a full and effective search generally do. Mature and effective organizations don't have one person make a decision. They respect each other and listen to each other to make the best decision possible.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
RE: Presumably they got a guy that both the owner and the coach
In comment 15123431 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
are excited about working with. Good teams that run a full and effective search generally do. Mature and effective organizations don't have one person make a decision. They respect each other and listen to each other to make the best decision possible.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
Now we are getting anything he can dredge up, all of which precedes the GM hire.
Not posting that it was Rhule's hire could have avoided all of this, but even after that, a simple "I didn't know the details" would have sufficed.
Instead we are going to get a ton of spin and posts anytime he can find a source that comes close to saying Rhule is in charge. Maybe he'll quote a source that has 4 chihuahuas next time....
Quote:
that's Dator's first article about the Panthers I can find, he's quoting no sources other than a comment Tepper made in his press conference letting Hurney go, and he just wrote an article last week that Nickleodean's broadcast of the playoff game would improve coverage of every sport.
Even for you this is weak as hell.
But it's a common theme about the Rhule hire. Did you really not recall this when Rhule was hired? You live in Charlotte...right?
So instead of focusing on the content, you try to discredit the writer. Beautiful...
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
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I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Actually the Gettleman reference is yet more evidence the guy isn't close to the team. I would seriously doubt he wrote that even talking to anyone with the organization.
Yes, defend at all costs, How could something unflattering ever be said about DG.
Man, you need a break.
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Ruhle being involved in the interviews and being a part of the decision making isn’t unprecedented. It also doesn’t mean very much and it certainly doesn’t make him the “CEO” of anything. Like FMIC said, if you honestly think that Rhule made this hire on his own, with final say, then you do not know Tepper very well.
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I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
Yes on the control.
Rhule didn’t interview though with NYG right? He called and they all concluded there was no point in him coming.
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
Tepper's vision - ( New Window )
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Yes - I doubt it. If Rhule is being handed full control, why does Tepper always talk about group-think. About collaboration. About data-driven decisions?? Why doesn't he just defer all questions and say, "Talk to the boss"?
Nobody inside the building thinks Rhule has absolute power, luckily that also includes Rhule. Like I said - you will just keep beating on this to save face when staying silent initially would have just been the best move.
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
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What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
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"I'm trying to figure out what should be the right structure for an organization today," he said. "Just because there's been the same structure in the NFL forever in a lot of places doesn't mean it should be the same structure now."
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
Tepper's vision - ( New Window )
I don't have an issue with any of that. That's how Tepper ran his hedge fun. Seeking opinions from different corners of the organization.
But when it comes time to make final football decisions on building the team, it's Rhule's call. You don't pay a first time HC in the NFL $8M+ per year to cede decision making to the GM. NFW.
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
Who is mocking you? I haven't said you are making anything up. You cited that there was a very deliberate process in place to evaluate GM candidates. That makes complete sense.
But I said Rhule got his GM. And found Kirwan - a guy who has been in league circles a long long time - to be very credible. But because I wouldn't fall in lockstep with that, you became your typical bully self.
Which is fine. I get it. And can maneuver around it.
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
Don’t agree chopper. Both on the needed break and bw.
Says more than enough positives. To name a few...on overall coaching, Graham’s abilities, many of the defensive players, Gates. He also provides plenty of negatives as well that, while are his opinions, I find pretty damn aligned to current situation this losing team is trying to break out of. Most importantly, he allows for any debate of his views and doesn’t do it berating every poster like they do to him. Case in point Mr. Indicative who started this thread.
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Q: Are you concerned about the perception that Rhule is in charge of things now?
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I did read that, yes. But it's a bit unclear. The writer asks about the perception that "Rhule is in charge now". I wasn't sure what that meant. The entire team operations?
Because then Tepper says in the answer part that Rhule has a lot to do with running the football team...and there will not be much change to what's in place right now.
Isn't the structure in place now - which isn't changing - that Rhule is in charge of all football decisions?
:- )
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
:- )
I disagree with you in ur description of bw's views and what he says about the team. I dont care about that aspect. But all he does is disagree with more founded opinions with unfounded negative theories. He's literally exhausting.
:- )
I did see that. Thank you. I do say quite a few positive things. But, alas, they get lost in the sauce.
Let me know your PayPal info so I can compensate accordingly...
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
What are you twelve? "Deep throat" is a common term used about unnamed sources. Are you suddenly getting thin skinned on me...geesh.
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
I never said "extraordinary power" as is if Tepper reports to Rhule. I said, and this has been corroborated by scores of league sources, that Rhule has the same set-up with football decision at Reid and Belichick. Do you dispute that? Is that suddenly wrong? I'm all ears on that one...
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
I'm enjoying the banter. No effort, really.
And I did not mean - at all - that your source was a schmuck. One of Bill Bradley guy's at the WaPo called Woodward and Bernstein's source for Watergate "Deep Throat" because he was deep cover. And they couldn't give out the identity.
So I really wasn't trying to offend there...
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
Not sure why you are playing dumb on this. But like Reid and Belichick, Rhule does have final say on all football moves. Seriously, are you going to dispute that?
Ok...I just want to make sure Im not puffed out....
The owner pays the salaries of both the HC (Matt Rhule) and the GM. So the owner lets Rhule make the decision on the GM he wants right? But the owner has to pay both salaries right? Soooo, if Rhule's team looks like shit next year, and the year after that, and the GM, who was hired by the HC in your scenario, fails to equip the team with enough players durimg his tenure, the owner might have to fire both guys, and pay the GM's salary for the length of the contract because of a decision he let someone else make?
Sorry, but YOU'RE high. Successful businessmen allow insight into their businesses, but the final say comes from Tepper.
Matt Rhule had the final say in GM hire over the owner of the team....the sequel to Terps' saying the Ravens shouldve traded Lamar Jackson after his MVP season.
Lol, you cant make this up.
An entertaining debate here but who gives a fuck? I'm more worried about the NY Rangers' coach being completely unprepared for a game tonight.
And a lot of other things too.
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
Exactly. Tepper made Rhule one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL right out of Baylor.
Just go back and read the events leading to Rhule’s hire, and how ecstatic Tepper was about getting his man. Look at this quote after the hire...
I’m sure FMiC is correct that Tepper and the organization ran a thorough search looking for a GM. That’s been reported elsewhere as well. And how they brought in between 15-20 candidates and used an independent firm. It wasn’t like they brought in a former GM with ties to the organization to lead the search, btw... ; )
And I’m sure Tepper was the guy who called Fitterer to make the formal offer, etc, etc. But there is absolutely no way Tepper got there without Rhule signing off. NFW. He’s way too invested in the guy. Which in essence makes this Rhule’s hire.
The strange thing here is I’m not a Rhule guy at all. I didn’t want the Giants to touch him for a variety of reasons. So I have no preconceived bias to come here and make this strong case for him.
But this isn’t hard to follow to connect the dots. Rhule is second in command with the Panthers behind Tepper. And he got the GM he wanted.
Of course Rhule had an up or down vote. An owner doesn't commit to $62 mill for a HC, then not listen to his needs. Why would you hire a GM to be contentious with the HC? Once you do this you live or die with the HC.
Both FMiC and bw are correct and arguing from different POVs. There is no doubt the committee decided on the GM and that Rhule was part of the process. There is little doubt that the GM was approved by Rhule but he was also approved by Tepper and the other members of the committee.
So you can say equally that this was Tepper's guy, Rhule's guy and the guy of every member of the committee.
No. The Panthers got their GM. Rhule had input on the hire. Saying this is Rhule getting "his guy" makes it seem that he's the overriding vote. That isn't what happened.
You want to play connect the dots? The Panthers have a group of several people in on the interviews. They connect with 12-15 candidates in a first run. They narrow the list down to 4 for second interviews - a process that has been taking up most of their time since the season ended. They've spent several hours as a team debating the fit of the people. The committee recommended their final choice and Tepper makes the offer.
In what world does that indicate that Rhule was the overriding voice or the driver? In a world where a guy steps into a thread without knowing the facts and now will just try to steer a false narrative to avoid being wrong.
By the way - at the end of the process, Tepper has been ecstatic that they did this as a group. He is really happy right now.
You should stick to connecting dots with the Giants. You don't seem any better at doing it with them, but at least you get a much more interested audience to peddle the bullshit to.
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
This is the dilemma with QBs costing too much money. In general, QBs and DEs are paid far too much money percentage wise vs the rest of the team. Just because you are a starting QB does not make you equal with Patrick Mahomes. Of all the young QBs out there Lamar Jackson may be the closest in single importance to his team. But because a large part of his offensive style is running he is more prone to a massive injury(although I think he is built for running as much as he does). Josh Allen is looking to be the next.
So does Baltimore commit huge dollars to a guy who without his running ability is a question mark at QB? Good luck with that one. One look a Dak Prescott's injury(a very stout QB) should give every team pause.
No doubt Lamar is a top 10, even top 5 player in the NFL. Will he be in another 5 years?
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
Ok, so your position with Lamar is either pay him or trade him. Got all your bases covered there, I guess.
No ones mentioned Fitterer was originally hired into the NFL by Ernie Accorsi, with the Giants, Ernie strikes again!
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
As long as Rhule was signed off on it too.
Section as well.
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
I’ve echoed nearly all of that above.
The only piece I’ve maintained, however, is this is really Rhule’s GM because Tepper wouldn’t hire a GM - because a he ultimately writes the checks - without Rhule’s final approval.
If Tepper was very fond of candidate but Rhule wasn’t, do you think Tepper still makes the hire? Of course not. And why not? Because Tepper knows Rhule is THE football guy and knows how and what he wants to build. So I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say this would ultimately come down to Rhule getting the guy he’s most comfortable with...
Tepper has to be on board as well. But Rhule is the key.
That doesn't mean Rhule is not on board with the choice - it means the process played out as they intended.
But we know why bw wants it said this was a Rhule hire - because for the Giants he characterizes everything as a Mara hire. This hire was done exactly as Tepper envisioned it would. It was a detailed process. It was data driven. And it was collaborative. He does not want fiefdoms or power pockets in the organization, so the idea Rhule pounds the table to get the GM he wants isn't just laughable, it is incorrect.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
Exactly. Well put