have final say on the 53 man roster. Maybe a big price ticket cut is something that might involve the GM or even owner but what good is the HC if he can’t assemble the team with the players given to him?
have final say on the 53 man roster. Maybe a big price ticket cut is something that might involve the GM or even owner but what good is the HC if he can’t assemble the team with the players given to him?
I think what the ESPN article really means (and the wording is wrong) is the coach has the final say on who is signed, traded, and cut.
I d believe there are teams where the GM can veto or act unilaterally to acquire or trade a player.
Also, not sure why what BW in DC posted was so unjustified though that you had to lose your mind over it.
He posted that this was Rhule's hire which is incorrect. No wonder you are a contrarian - you apparently like taking the side that isn't factually supported.
Contrarian? You know, you really would have made a great Nazi.
What bw posted was his opinion of what happened behind the scenes of the committee formed in Carolina.
The GM has other duties besides player personnel and cap management. The HC isn't involved in those duties. It doesn't make sense for the GM to report to the HC. It may make sense for the GM to let the HC have final say on personnel decisions (up to a point) but not for the GM to report to the HC. It's like having the CEO or COO report to a department head.
I agree the GM has other duties.
But I look at the structure differently. I see the HC as the CEO. The GM as the COO. And in that structure, the COO reports directly to the CEO.
The HC knows exactly what he want to build his team - the identity he wants the team to have, the type of offense/defense, type of culture, type of coaches, etc. So the GM should help the HC execute filling in those pieces. The GM should offer different opinions and ideas, but the final say in all things football team should always fall to the HC. The GM shouldn't try to build the team in his view...
The GM has other duties besides player personnel and cap management. The HC isn't involved in those duties. It doesn't make sense for the GM to report to the HC. It may make sense for the GM to let the HC have final say on personnel decisions (up to a point) but not for the GM to report to the HC. It's like having the CEO or COO report to a department head.
I agree the GM has other duties.
But I look at the structure differently. I see the HC as the CEO. The GM as the COO. And in that structure, the COO reports directly to the CEO.
The HC knows exactly what he want to build his team - the identity he wants the team to have, the type of offense/defense, type of culture, type of coaches, etc. So the GM should help the HC execute filling in those pieces. The GM should offer different opinions and ideas, but the final say in all things football team should always fall to the HC. The GM shouldn't try to build the team in his view...
This is just completely backwards. The CEO reports directly to the owner and has responsibilities that spread far and wide. The job of a HC is already more than a 24/7 job, you want the HC to also now report directly to the owner and somehow with all of his spare time figure out a way to pull off the rest of the CEO responsibilities? Ludicrous. It’s one thing to give the HC the benefit of doubt with roster decisions, it’s a completely different animal to ask him to also be the CEO and make all the decisions related to the duties of the CEO. There is literally no good reason to have the GM report to the HC on a daily basis. Come on now. You obviously have no idea of the job duties of either the HC or the GM. It is the HC that should pass along to the GM what he needs to succeed. It’s it then up to the front office to try to make that happen. Or not. It’s not as simple as just wanting this player and that player and that player. There are finances, background info, analytics consideration, etc., etc., that need to be looked at and the HC certainly doesn’t have the time nor the expertise to be able to effectively navigate all of the intricacies that need to be considered. They don’t have enough time as it is with what they already do...
Like I said - I don't expect anything more than you to discard the information and use whatever best suits whatever ridiculous narrative you want to drive home.
Whelp, this is shaping up to be yet another case of you insulting someone who winds up being vindicated or validated down the road.
to hire a GM, and then made an offer to one of the candidates. That is all of the facts in evidence for this argument, correct?
From this, two camps have emerged on what actual power was exerted behind the scenes in this process?
The correct answer is - nobody on BBI knows. If you think you know, you are incorrect.
Two camps?? bw represents a camp?? Again - I talked to a person inside the building. I posted the details of the way the hire went, right down to the fact that it was an offer and not a firm deal yet.
It was a decision by committee, not a decision made primarily by the coach.
This wasn't intended to be a discussion about "camps" and sides. It was a straightforward news blurb until bw stepped in to say something that contradicted the events as they were told to me.
If he has a source in the building - consider him a "camp". Until then, he's just flinging shit against a wall as usual.
Just look at his post earlier where he says "Just think about it a little deeper". No. There's no thinking when a person has already relayed the events as they unfolded. What do you think the response to me would have been if I responded to the person delivering the news, "Nah, Rhule made teh decision"?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Pat Kirwan is pretty dialed in...
Like I said - I don't expect anything more than you to discard the information and use whatever best suits whatever ridiculous narrative you want to drive home.
Whelp, this is shaping up to be yet another case of you insulting someone who winds up being vindicated or validated down the road.
It is shaping up to be that way?? Find a source that says Rhule made the hire.
From ESPN:
Quote:
Each of the finalists fits the job description of being relatively young with a strong scouting background to work in collaboration with head coach Matt Rhule to identify talent. Owner David Tepper also was looking for a general manager who was data driven.
From NFL.com:
Quote:
After a lengthy search, Carolina Panthers owner David Tepper has finally made his first major front-office hire. Chief among the Panthers' needs, and therefore atop Fitterer's priorities, is locating a franchise quarterback. Carolina replaced former MVP Cam Newton with Teddy Bridgewater and P.J. Walker in 2020. With Bridgewater not necessarily the answer under center, the Panthers are expected to locate their QB of the future either in the draft or free agency this offseason. Carolina should also look to improve its mediocre defense and bolster its offensive line and weaponry.
Rappaport's tweet:
Quote:
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
The #Panthers are expected to hire VP of Football Operations Scott Fitterer as their new GM, sources tell me and @TomPelissero. A late addition to their interview process, he made a quick impression on the Carolina search team.
SEARCH TEAM
There isn't any mention of this being a decision driven by Rhule. And that exactly what bw said. "This is a Rhule hire".
SB Nation.com staff writer James Dator attended the wrong college by accident, before going to the Super Bowl and eating everything available at the concessions stand in one sitting.
He also owns three chihuahuas -- which is probably a bigger red flag than any of the above.
that's Dator's first article about the Panthers I can find, he's quoting no sources other than a comment Tepper made in his press conference letting Hurney go, and he just wrote an article last week that Nickleodean's broadcast of the playoff game would improve coverage of every sport.
He says the hiring of a GM (before today's announcement) could report to Rhule or Tepper, but suggests it may end up under Rhule...
Quote:
For most coaches who see the G.M. fired and a new one hired, it’s a bad sign. For Panthers coach Matt Rhule, it’s a positive development.
As one league source explained it to PFT, the firing of Panthers G.M. Marty Hurney means that Rhule will essentially be running the show in Carolina, once the dust settles on the hiring of a new G.M.
It could happen as a practical matter, or it could be made more official. The new G.M. may report to Rhule; the new G.M. may report to owner David Tepper. Regardless, the new G.M. won’t be someone who comes in with a short list of preferred coaching hires and bides his time until the time comes to move out Rhule and hire someone else.
This makes Rhule a key player in the search for a new G.M., and it gives Rhule plenty of power moving forward.
It should be no surprise. The curve-blowing contract that Tepper gave to Rhule in early 2020 says it all. Rhule won’t have to worry about the new G.M. firing the coach. And the new G.M. surely won’t get the job without Rhule’s agreement...
I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Actually the Gettleman reference is yet more evidence the guy isn't close to the team. I would seriously doubt he wrote that even talking to anyone with the organization.
that's Dator's first article about the Panthers I can find, he's quoting no sources other than a comment Tepper made in his press conference letting Hurney go, and he just wrote an article last week that Nickleodean's broadcast of the playoff game would improve coverage of every sport.
Even for you this is weak as hell.
But it's a common theme about the Rhule hire. Did you really not recall this when Rhule was hired? You live in Charlotte...right?
So instead of focusing on the content, you try to discredit the writer. Beautiful...
I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
much earlier on in the thread, bw could have just saved himself the effort to spin if he didn't step into something he didn't know the details of.
Now we are getting anything he can dredge up, all of which precedes the GM hire.
Not posting that it was Rhule's hire could have avoided all of this, but even after that, a simple "I didn't know the details" would have sufficed.
Instead we are going to get a ton of spin and posts anytime he can find a source that comes close to saying Rhule is in charge. Maybe he'll quote a source that has 4 chihuahuas next time....
that's Dator's first article about the Panthers I can find, he's quoting no sources other than a comment Tepper made in his press conference letting Hurney go, and he just wrote an article last week that Nickleodean's broadcast of the playoff game would improve coverage of every sport.
Even for you this is weak as hell.
But it's a common theme about the Rhule hire. Did you really not recall this when Rhule was hired? You live in Charlotte...right?
So instead of focusing on the content, you try to discredit the writer. Beautiful...
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Actually the Gettleman reference is yet more evidence the guy isn't close to the team. I would seriously doubt he wrote that even talking to anyone with the organization.
Yes, defend at all costs, How could something unflattering ever be said about DG.
multiple chihuahua's, I'm sticking with my original position because I didn't just make this up out of thin air. I referenced Kirwan.
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Had Mccagagnan fired and hand picked his buddy Joe Douglas as GM. Gase wielded a ton of power too. How’d that work out for him? Gase being involved in the interview/hiring process and having some say in the hire didn’t make him Douglas’ boss.
Ruhle being involved in the interviews and being a part of the decision making isn’t unprecedented. It also doesn’t mean very much and it certainly doesn’t make him the “CEO” of anything. Like FMIC said, if you honestly think that Rhule made this hire on his own, with final say, then you do not know Tepper very well.
I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
Yes on the control.
Rhule didn’t interview though with NYG right? He called and they all concluded there was no point in him coming.
that actually interviewed Tepper about his philosophy and is from the team. Read it and try to grasp what it is saying about there being many levels of decision-making and trying to get out of "siloed" thinking. The GM search and hiring committee is illustrative of that approach. An excerpt:
Quote:
"I'm trying to figure out what should be the right structure for an organization today," he said. "Just because there's been the same structure in the NFL forever in a lot of places doesn't mean it should be the same structure now."
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
multiple chihuahua's, I'm sticking with my original position because I didn't just make this up out of thin air. I referenced Kirwan.
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Yes - I doubt it. If Rhule is being handed full control, why does Tepper always talk about group-think. About collaboration. About data-driven decisions?? Why doesn't he just defer all questions and say, "Talk to the boss"?
Nobody inside the building thinks Rhule has absolute power, luckily that also includes Rhule. Like I said - you will just keep beating on this to save face when staying silent initially would have just been the best move.
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
Bw is THEE most shit-stirring, bullshit artist posters on BBI. Terps is just negative and doesnt make shit up, but bw adopts arguments that are either flat out unsubscribed and unsupported, BY ANYONE, and then he argues those arguments until you either relent, or the sun comes up.
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
that actually interviewed Tepper about his philosophy and is from the team. Read it and try to grasp what it is saying about there being many levels of decision-making and trying to get out of "siloed" thinking. The GM search and hiring committee is illustrative of that approach. An excerpt:
Quote:
"I'm trying to figure out what should be the right structure for an organization today," he said. "Just because there's been the same structure in the NFL forever in a lot of places doesn't mean it should be the same structure now."
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
Tepper's vision - ( New Window )
I don't have an issue with any of that. That's how Tepper ran his hedge fun. Seeking opinions from different corners of the organization.
But when it comes time to make final football decisions on building the team, it's Rhule's call. You don't pay a first time HC in the NFL $8M+ per year to cede decision making to the GM. NFW.
Q: Are you concerned about the perception that Rhule is in charge of things now?
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
Who is mocking you? I haven't said you are making anything up. You cited that there was a very deliberate process in place to evaluate GM candidates. That makes complete sense.
But I said Rhule got his GM. And found Kirwan - a guy who has been in league circles a long long time - to be very credible. But because I wouldn't fall in lockstep with that, you became your typical bully self.
Which is fine. I get it. And can maneuver around it.
Bw is THEE most shit-stirring, bullshit artist posters on BBI. Terps is just negative and doesnt make shit up, but bw adopts arguments that are either flat out unsubscribed and unsupported, BY ANYONE, and then he argues those arguments until you either relent, or the sun comes up.
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
Don’t agree chopper. Both on the needed break and bw.
Says more than enough positives. To name a few...on overall coaching, Graham’s abilities, many of the defensive players, Gates. He also provides plenty of negatives as well that, while are his opinions, I find pretty damn aligned to current situation this losing team is trying to break out of. Most importantly, he allows for any debate of his views and doesn’t do it berating every poster like they do to him. Case in point Mr. Indicative who started this thread.
Q: Are you concerned about the perception that Rhule is in charge of things now?
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I did read that, yes. But it's a bit unclear. The writer asks about the perception that "Rhule is in charge now". I wasn't sure what that meant. The entire team operations?
Because then Tepper says in the answer part that Rhule has a lot to do with running the football team...and there will not be much change to what's in place right now.
Isn't the structure in place now - which isn't changing - that Rhule is in charge of all football decisions?
sure you mean to use the term "deep throat" as one you'll listen to as a credible source. Of course you are mocking - you just picked the wrong team to start bullshitting about.
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
Did I get everything right that you wanted me to say about you?
:- )
I disagree with you in ur description of bw's views and what he says about the team. I dont care about that aspect. But all he does is disagree with more founded opinions with unfounded negative theories. He's literally exhausting.
sure you mean to use the term "deep throat" as one you'll listen to as a credible source. Of course you are mocking - you just picked the wrong team to start bullshitting about.
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
What are you twelve? "Deep throat" is a common term used about unnamed sources. Are you suddenly getting thin skinned on me...geesh.
Rhule is not in charge of all football decisions. I just mentioned above what he is in charge of. They have Directors of Player Personnel and Pro Personnel who operate very much like other orgs. They have a Director of Analytics that works closely with the other areas.
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
Rhule is not in charge of all football decisions. I just mentioned above what he is in charge of. They have Directors of Player Personnel and Pro Personnel who operate very much like other orgs. They have a Director of Analytics that works closely with the other areas.
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
I never said "extraordinary power" as is if Tepper reports to Rhule. I said, and this has been corroborated by scores of league sources, that Rhule has the same set-up with football decision at Reid and Belichick. Do you dispute that? Is that suddenly wrong? I'm all ears on that one...
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
I'm enjoying the banter. No effort, really.
And I did not mean - at all - that your source was a schmuck. One of Bill Bradley guy's at the WaPo called Woodward and Bernstein's source for Watergate "Deep Throat" because he was deep cover. And they couldn't give out the identity.
" corroborated by scores of league sources" and yet not corroborated by Tepper.
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
" corroborated by scores of league sources" and yet not corroborated by Tepper.
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
Not sure why you are playing dumb on this. But like Reid and Belichick, Rhule does have final say on all football moves. Seriously, are you going to dispute that?
There’s very few organizations that don’t give their HC final say on
53 so no idea why ESPN decided to throw that in the article. When it comes to actual personnel decisions that’s where each team is different. Aka who to bring in and draft decision making authority.
The only person he answers to is Tepper, and if you don't think Rhule had the deciding voice/veto on this GM hire you're high.
Ok...I just want to make sure Im not puffed out....
The owner pays the salaries of both the HC (Matt Rhule) and the GM. So the owner lets Rhule make the decision on the GM he wants right? But the owner has to pay both salaries right? Soooo, if Rhule's team looks like shit next year, and the year after that, and the GM, who was hired by the HC in your scenario, fails to equip the team with enough players durimg his tenure, the owner might have to fire both guys, and pay the GM's salary for the length of the contract because of a decision he let someone else make?
Sorry, but YOU'RE high. Successful businessmen allow insight into their businesses, but the final say comes from Tepper.
Matt Rhule had the final say in GM hire over the owner of the team....the sequel to Terps' saying the Ravens shouldve traded Lamar Jackson after his MVP season.
I think what the ESPN article really means (and the wording is wrong) is the coach has the final say on who is signed, traded, and cut.
I d believe there are teams where the GM can veto or act unilaterally to acquire or trade a player.
Quote:
Also, not sure why what BW in DC posted was so unjustified though that you had to lose your mind over it.
He posted that this was Rhule's hire which is incorrect. No wonder you are a contrarian - you apparently like taking the side that isn't factually supported.
Contrarian? You know, you really would have made a great Nazi.
What bw posted was his opinion of what happened behind the scenes of the committee formed in Carolina.
Good lord.
I agree the GM has other duties.
But I look at the structure differently. I see the HC as the CEO. The GM as the COO. And in that structure, the COO reports directly to the CEO.
The HC knows exactly what he want to build his team - the identity he wants the team to have, the type of offense/defense, type of culture, type of coaches, etc. So the GM should help the HC execute filling in those pieces. The GM should offer different opinions and ideas, but the final say in all things football team should always fall to the HC. The GM shouldn't try to build the team in his view...
Are you a serial killer?
Are you a serial killer?
Quote:
The GM has other duties besides player personnel and cap management. The HC isn't involved in those duties. It doesn't make sense for the GM to report to the HC. It may make sense for the GM to let the HC have final say on personnel decisions (up to a point) but not for the GM to report to the HC. It's like having the CEO or COO report to a department head.
I agree the GM has other duties.
But I look at the structure differently. I see the HC as the CEO. The GM as the COO. And in that structure, the COO reports directly to the CEO.
The HC knows exactly what he want to build his team - the identity he wants the team to have, the type of offense/defense, type of culture, type of coaches, etc. So the GM should help the HC execute filling in those pieces. The GM should offer different opinions and ideas, but the final say in all things football team should always fall to the HC. The GM shouldn't try to build the team in his view...
This is just completely backwards. The CEO reports directly to the owner and has responsibilities that spread far and wide. The job of a HC is already more than a 24/7 job, you want the HC to also now report directly to the owner and somehow with all of his spare time figure out a way to pull off the rest of the CEO responsibilities? Ludicrous. It’s one thing to give the HC the benefit of doubt with roster decisions, it’s a completely different animal to ask him to also be the CEO and make all the decisions related to the duties of the CEO. There is literally no good reason to have the GM report to the HC on a daily basis. Come on now. You obviously have no idea of the job duties of either the HC or the GM. It is the HC that should pass along to the GM what he needs to succeed. It’s it then up to the front office to try to make that happen. Or not. It’s not as simple as just wanting this player and that player and that player. There are finances, background info, analytics consideration, etc., etc., that need to be looked at and the HC certainly doesn’t have the time nor the expertise to be able to effectively navigate all of the intricacies that need to be considered. They don’t have enough time as it is with what they already do...
Like I said - I don't expect anything more than you to discard the information and use whatever best suits whatever ridiculous narrative you want to drive home.
Whelp, this is shaping up to be yet another case of you insulting someone who winds up being vindicated or validated down the road.
From this, two camps have emerged on what actual power was exerted behind the scenes in this process?
The correct answer is - nobody on BBI knows. If you think you know, you are incorrect.
Two camps?? bw represents a camp?? Again - I talked to a person inside the building. I posted the details of the way the hire went, right down to the fact that it was an offer and not a firm deal yet.
It was a decision by committee, not a decision made primarily by the coach.
This wasn't intended to be a discussion about "camps" and sides. It was a straightforward news blurb until bw stepped in to say something that contradicted the events as they were told to me.
If he has a source in the building - consider him a "camp". Until then, he's just flinging shit against a wall as usual.
Just look at his post earlier where he says "Just think about it a little deeper". No. There's no thinking when a person has already relayed the events as they unfolded. What do you think the response to me would have been if I responded to the person delivering the news, "Nah, Rhule made teh decision"?
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Like I said - I don't expect anything more than you to discard the information and use whatever best suits whatever ridiculous narrative you want to drive home.
Whelp, this is shaping up to be yet another case of you insulting someone who winds up being vindicated or validated down the road.
It is shaping up to be that way?? Find a source that says Rhule made the hire.
From ESPN:
From NFL.com:
Rappaport's tweet:
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
The #Panthers are expected to hire VP of Football Operations Scott Fitterer as their new GM, sources tell me and @TomPelissero. A late addition to their interview process, he made a quick impression on the Carolina search team.
SEARCH TEAM
There isn't any mention of this being a decision driven by Rhule. And that exactly what bw said. "This is a Rhule hire".
Perhaps your "deep throat" can verify the veracity of this, too...
Rhule's Control - ( New Window )
The writeup on the author sure looks encouraging:
He also owns three chihuahuas -- which is probably a bigger red flag than any of the above.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Even for you this is weak as hell.
He says the hiring of a GM (before today's announcement) could report to Rhule or Tepper, but suggests it may end up under Rhule...
As one league source explained it to PFT, the firing of Panthers G.M. Marty Hurney means that Rhule will essentially be running the show in Carolina, once the dust settles on the hiring of a new G.M.
It could happen as a practical matter, or it could be made more official. The new G.M. may report to Rhule; the new G.M. may report to owner David Tepper. Regardless, the new G.M. won’t be someone who comes in with a short list of preferred coaching hires and bides his time until the time comes to move out Rhule and hire someone else.
This makes Rhule a key player in the search for a new G.M., and it gives Rhule plenty of power moving forward.
It should be no surprise. The curve-blowing contract that Tepper gave to Rhule in early 2020 says it all. Rhule won’t have to worry about the new G.M. firing the coach. And the new G.M. surely won’t get the job without Rhule’s agreement...
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Actually the Gettleman reference is yet more evidence the guy isn't close to the team. I would seriously doubt he wrote that even talking to anyone with the organization.
Even for you this is weak as hell.
But it's a common theme about the Rhule hire. Did you really not recall this when Rhule was hired? You live in Charlotte...right?
So instead of focusing on the content, you try to discredit the writer. Beautiful...
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
Now we are getting anything he can dredge up, all of which precedes the GM hire.
Not posting that it was Rhule's hire could have avoided all of this, but even after that, a simple "I didn't know the details" would have sufficed.
Instead we are going to get a ton of spin and posts anytime he can find a source that comes close to saying Rhule is in charge. Maybe he'll quote a source that has 4 chihuahuas next time....
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that's Dator's first article about the Panthers I can find, he's quoting no sources other than a comment Tepper made in his press conference letting Hurney go, and he just wrote an article last week that Nickleodean's broadcast of the playoff game would improve coverage of every sport.
Even for you this is weak as hell.
But it's a common theme about the Rhule hire. Did you really not recall this when Rhule was hired? You live in Charlotte...right?
So instead of focusing on the content, you try to discredit the writer. Beautiful...
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
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I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Actually the Gettleman reference is yet more evidence the guy isn't close to the team. I would seriously doubt he wrote that even talking to anyone with the organization.
Yes, defend at all costs, How could something unflattering ever be said about DG.
Man, you need a break.
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Ruhle being involved in the interviews and being a part of the decision making isn’t unprecedented. It also doesn’t mean very much and it certainly doesn’t make him the “CEO” of anything. Like FMIC said, if you honestly think that Rhule made this hire on his own, with final say, then you do not know Tepper very well.
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I read that same article a week or so ago. Good fit for this thread.
Love the Gettleman reference by the way. It will stir up the Defenders.
Like I just said to FMiC, it's been pretty common knowledge throughout football circles that Rhule was given enormous football control when Tepper hired him. One of the speculations that he didn't get another crack with the Giants in the interview was because Mara wasn't going to cede more power to Rhule and break up the tradition of how the Giants operate.
Yes on the control.
Rhule didn’t interview though with NYG right? He called and they all concluded there was no point in him coming.
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
Tepper's vision - ( New Window )
I just happened to be listening to Kirwan & Miller when you made your post and Kirwan was pretty emphatic about Rhule's power inside the Carolina building. And that this was his hire for GM.
And as mentioned earlier, I am sure there was a process in place to do the evaluation and due diligence. But I believe in the end, Rhule got who he wanted.
BTW, do you doubt ANYTHING in those articles I submitted about Rhule's control over the Panthers? Anything?
Yes - I doubt it. If Rhule is being handed full control, why does Tepper always talk about group-think. About collaboration. About data-driven decisions?? Why doesn't he just defer all questions and say, "Talk to the boss"?
Nobody inside the building thinks Rhule has absolute power, luckily that also includes Rhule. Like I said - you will just keep beating on this to save face when staying silent initially would have just been the best move.
What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
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What content?? you posted an article of an opinion piece by a guy with no sources with the Panthers. It is like you're just trolling now after doing a Google search
Again, ask "deep throat" about the content cited. Rhule's overall power, his insistence on building an analytics department in his vision, etc.
It's pretty clear. It just requires reading left to right. You remember how to do that...right?
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
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"I'm trying to figure out what should be the right structure for an organization today," he said. "Just because there's been the same structure in the NFL forever in a lot of places doesn't mean it should be the same structure now."
Tepper talked about the football operation the way he reimagined the team's business operations upon purchasing the team in 2018. He spoke theoretically about a day when offices on the second floor of Bank of America Stadium were rearranged to keep key decision-makers in places where they're more accessible to the entire operation, to prevent "siloed" thinking.
While he was more creating a philosophy than announcing renovation plans, he talked about a day when his office, the chief financial officer's, the team president's, the coach's, and the GM's were close enough together to create a different kind of communication throughout the business model.
"Five offices, so everybody has to go through that area, so we have better integration through the whole organization," he said. "So there's just a lot of things I may want to change at this point in time. . . .
"Absolutely you have the GM evaluating player personnel and involved collaboratively with the head coach and also with some input going both ways between coach and GM. I want input running freely throughout the organization with people working together."
Tepper's vision - ( New Window )
I don't have an issue with any of that. That's how Tepper ran his hedge fun. Seeking opinions from different corners of the organization.
But when it comes time to make final football decisions on building the team, it's Rhule's call. You don't pay a first time HC in the NFL $8M+ per year to cede decision making to the GM. NFW.
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I just addressed that. That's Tepper's vision!! He started and insisted on upgrading the analytics as soon as he became owner! Read the content I posted - it actually quotes Tepper!!
This is getting to the point where I'm now mocked for having sources inside the building because you heard a blurb on radio and then found one of the most ridiculous articles via a Google search??
You are literally picking a fight with me on the one team in the league I have the most contact with and the closest relationships too.
Who is mocking you? I haven't said you are making anything up. You cited that there was a very deliberate process in place to evaluate GM candidates. That makes complete sense.
But I said Rhule got his GM. And found Kirwan - a guy who has been in league circles a long long time - to be very credible. But because I wouldn't fall in lockstep with that, you became your typical bully self.
Which is fine. I get it. And can maneuver around it.
He is absolutely BRUTAL in any Giants discussion because he makes up false narratives to support his rhetoric and then accuses other people of not thinking.
He is an absolute pest, on a Giants message board, trying to piss off everybody in literally every single thread he enters.
Think about it....when was time you read him saying something positive about the Giants?
Bw sucks in every way, and yes, I take every opportunity to make sure he knows how much I think he sucks.
Don’t agree chopper. Both on the needed break and bw.
Says more than enough positives. To name a few...on overall coaching, Graham’s abilities, many of the defensive players, Gates. He also provides plenty of negatives as well that, while are his opinions, I find pretty damn aligned to current situation this losing team is trying to break out of. Most importantly, he allows for any debate of his views and doesn’t do it berating every poster like they do to him. Case in point Mr. Indicative who started this thread.
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Q: Are you concerned about the perception that Rhule is in charge of things now?
Tepper: "Matt Rhule does not want to run that show. He has a lot to do with running the football team and doing what he does. I don't think there will be too much of a difference than what it is right now."
Q: Is a certain creative tension between a coach and a GM a good thing for a team?
Tepper: "I think there have to be discussions, and people don't have to agree all the time. They shouldn't agree all the time. But we should have the goal to win or be the best you can possibly be, and there has to be a certain amount of collaboration, and there has to be a certain amount of tension in that collaboration.
"Collaboration doesn't mean everybody agrees all the time. That means you inform, you let people know what's going on, you don't hold things back. Transparency is a byword, and you have discussions, and sometimes you have arguments because you have that transparency. But you all are trying to get to the same goal in a collaborative method. That doesn't mean you totally agree or should totally agree."
I did read that, yes. But it's a bit unclear. The writer asks about the perception that "Rhule is in charge now". I wasn't sure what that meant. The entire team operations?
Because then Tepper says in the answer part that Rhule has a lot to do with running the football team...and there will not be much change to what's in place right now.
Isn't the structure in place now - which isn't changing - that Rhule is in charge of all football decisions?
:- )
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
:- )
I disagree with you in ur description of bw's views and what he says about the team. I dont care about that aspect. But all he does is disagree with more founded opinions with unfounded negative theories. He's literally exhausting.
:- )
I did see that. Thank you. I do say quite a few positive things. But, alas, they get lost in the sauce.
Let me know your PayPal info so I can compensate accordingly...
Again - this was very easily avoided if you didn't make sweeping assumptions on the news that broke and try to spin it into something it isn't.
Everyone in the building knows that Tepper is in charge. And actually he'll be the one that makes all final decisions. And there are several people in the building he trusts. Since you have Google on hyperdrive trying to find anything to indicate Rhule is in charge, look up who Tom Glick is. His voice holds a significant amount of equity with Tepper. Everyone that was on the hiring committee holds a lot of sway.
He pays Rhule handsomely to bring his expertise to coaching/teaching, to choosing and leading the assistants and for game planning, which is a lot. He expects collaboration in the other areas, including roster building.
What are you twelve? "Deep throat" is a common term used about unnamed sources. Are you suddenly getting thin skinned on me...geesh.
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
He's trying to establish a collaborative situation with many group decisions being made.
Now, will that change if they start losing? Have no idea, but to act like Rhule has some extraordinary power isn't anything that people inside the organization are saying. But you keep positioning it as fact and that it is well known.
I never said "extraordinary power" as is if Tepper reports to Rhule. I said, and this has been corroborated by scores of league sources, that Rhule has the same set-up with football decision at Reid and Belichick. Do you dispute that? Is that suddenly wrong? I'm all ears on that one...
The context you are using it in indicates that you'd rather trust some schmuck who wrote an article without ever talking to the team or that you'd blindly listen to Kirwan instead of a source well entrenched in the building
You could have saved yourself a lot of effort this evening
I'm enjoying the banter. No effort, really.
And I did not mean - at all - that your source was a schmuck. One of Bill Bradley guy's at the WaPo called Woodward and Bernstein's source for Watergate "Deep Throat" because he was deep cover. And they couldn't give out the identity.
So I really wasn't trying to offend there...
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
I don't even know what you are talking about with the same set-up as Reid and Little Bill. One org has a GM and the other one is the GM. But you read something on ESPN that references those two teams so you're going to run with it.
Read the link on what the process is. Tepper lays it out. If he doesn't "corroborate" your thinking, you have a project to work on exhaustively checking Google to find the scores of league sources you like to refer to.
Not sure why you are playing dumb on this. But like Reid and Belichick, Rhule does have final say on all football moves. Seriously, are you going to dispute that?
Ok...I just want to make sure Im not puffed out....
The owner pays the salaries of both the HC (Matt Rhule) and the GM. So the owner lets Rhule make the decision on the GM he wants right? But the owner has to pay both salaries right? Soooo, if Rhule's team looks like shit next year, and the year after that, and the GM, who was hired by the HC in your scenario, fails to equip the team with enough players durimg his tenure, the owner might have to fire both guys, and pay the GM's salary for the length of the contract because of a decision he let someone else make?
Sorry, but YOU'RE high. Successful businessmen allow insight into their businesses, but the final say comes from Tepper.
Matt Rhule had the final say in GM hire over the owner of the team....the sequel to Terps' saying the Ravens shouldve traded Lamar Jackson after his MVP season.
Lol, you cant make this up.
An entertaining debate here but who gives a fuck? I'm more worried about the NY Rangers' coach being completely unprepared for a game tonight.
And a lot of other things too.