You keep bringing up what I said about Lamar Jackson out of the blue for reasons I don't understand, and you always get it wrong. So I'll lay it out for you...
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
The only person he answers to is Tepper, and if you don't think Rhule had the deciding voice/veto on this GM hire you're high.
Exactly. Tepper made Rhule one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL right out of Baylor.
Just go back and read the events leading to Rhule’s hire, and how ecstatic Tepper was about getting his man. Look at this quote after the hire...
Quote:
"I think Matt Rhule can come in here and build an organization for the next 30 or 40 years," Tepper said a few hours after Rhule agreed to terms. "He can build it."
I’m sure FMiC is correct that Tepper and the organization ran a thorough search looking for a GM. That’s been reported elsewhere as well. And how they brought in between 15-20 candidates and used an independent firm. It wasn’t like they brought in a former GM with ties to the organization to lead the search, btw... ; )
And I’m sure Tepper was the guy who called Fitterer to make the formal offer, etc, etc. But there is absolutely no way Tepper got there without Rhule signing off. NFW. He’s way too invested in the guy. Which in essence makes this Rhule’s hire.
The strange thing here is I’m not a Rhule guy at all. I didn’t want the Giants to touch him for a variety of reasons. So I have no preconceived bias to come here and make this strong case for him.
But this isn’t hard to follow to connect the dots. Rhule is second in command with the Panthers behind Tepper. And he got the GM he wanted.
The only person he answers to is Tepper, and if you don't think Rhule had the deciding voice/veto on this GM hire you're high.
Of course Rhule had an up or down vote. An owner doesn't commit to $62 mill for a HC, then not listen to his needs. Why would you hire a GM to be contentious with the HC? Once you do this you live or die with the HC.
Both FMiC and bw are correct and arguing from different POVs. There is no doubt the committee decided on the GM and that Rhule was part of the process. There is little doubt that the GM was approved by Rhule but he was also approved by Tepper and the other members of the committee.
So you can say equally that this was Tepper's guy, Rhule's guy and the guy of every member of the committee.
"connect the dots" line used so often absent of actual evidence. Again - this is going to be spun every chance bw gets to reiterate that Rhule got his GM.
No. The Panthers got their GM. Rhule had input on the hire. Saying this is Rhule getting "his guy" makes it seem that he's the overriding vote. That isn't what happened.
You want to play connect the dots? The Panthers have a group of several people in on the interviews. They connect with 12-15 candidates in a first run. They narrow the list down to 4 for second interviews - a process that has been taking up most of their time since the season ended. They've spent several hours as a team debating the fit of the people. The committee recommended their final choice and Tepper makes the offer.
In what world does that indicate that Rhule was the overriding voice or the driver? In a world where a guy steps into a thread without knowing the facts and now will just try to steer a false narrative to avoid being wrong.
By the way - at the end of the process, Tepper has been ecstatic that they did this as a group. He is really happy right now.
You should stick to connecting dots with the Giants. You don't seem any better at doing it with them, but at least you get a much more interested audience to peddle the bullshit to.
You keep bringing up what I said about Lamar Jackson out of the blue for reasons I don't understand, and you always get it wrong. So I'll lay it out for you...
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
This is the dilemma with QBs costing too much money. In general, QBs and DEs are paid far too much money percentage wise vs the rest of the team. Just because you are a starting QB does not make you equal with Patrick Mahomes. Of all the young QBs out there Lamar Jackson may be the closest in single importance to his team. But because a large part of his offensive style is running he is more prone to a massive injury(although I think he is built for running as much as he does). Josh Allen is looking to be the next.
So does Baltimore commit huge dollars to a guy who without his running ability is a question mark at QB? Good luck with that one. One look a Dak Prescott's injury(a very stout QB) should give every team pause.
No doubt Lamar is a top 10, even top 5 player in the NFL. Will he be in another 5 years?
You keep bringing up what I said about Lamar Jackson out of the blue for reasons I don't understand, and you always get it wrong. So I'll lay it out for you...
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
Ok, so your position with Lamar is either pay him or trade him. Got all your bases covered there, I guess.
Good post. There’s no way a strong individual like Tepper would hire a GM that he didn’t think was a very good candidate, and the same goes for Rhule. There’s no way for us to know exactly how the dynamics of the decisionmaking process are beyond that. In fact, I think the participants in the search probably each have a different view of what happened.
No ones mentioned Fitterer was originally hired into the NFL by Ernie Accorsi, with the Giants, Ernie strikes again!
The NFL.com piece on the hire characterized it as “lengthy”. That suggests that there wasn’t a leading candidate from the get-go, like there are in certain searches (eg the Tom Coughlin hire). So that suggests that Rhule and Fitterer aren’t tied together in any particular way. In fact, nothing in their history suggests any serious overlap.
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
Carolina set up an organized process to find and evaluate
candidates. Their formed committee looked at a lot of guys and went thru and narrowed down the list to four candidates and then to a final one. Without question, Carolina can say their committee ultimately chose the GM.
The NFL.com piece on the hire characterized it as “lengthy”. That suggests that there wasn’t a leading candidate from the get-go, like there are in certain searches (eg the Tom Coughlin hire). So that suggests that Rhule and Fitterer aren’t tied together in any particular way. In fact, nothing in their history suggests any serious overlap.
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
I’ve echoed nearly all of that above.
The only piece I’ve maintained, however, is this is really Rhule’s GM because Tepper wouldn’t hire a GM - because a he ultimately writes the checks - without Rhule’s final approval.
If Tepper was very fond of candidate but Rhule wasn’t, do you think Tepper still makes the hire? Of course not. And why not? Because Tepper knows Rhule is THE football guy and knows how and what he wants to build. So I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say this would ultimately come down to Rhule getting the guy he’s most comfortable with...
Tepper has to be on board as well. But Rhule is the key.
that the GM chosen is the one Rhule would be "most comfortable" with. But yes, he was part of the decision process. But here's the thing - out of the list of candidates, Rhule initially recommended three people to be interviewed. Fitterer was not one of them.
That doesn't mean Rhule is not on board with the choice - it means the process played out as they intended.
But we know why bw wants it said this was a Rhule hire - because for the Giants he characterizes everything as a Mara hire. This hire was done exactly as Tepper envisioned it would. It was a detailed process. It was data driven. And it was collaborative. He does not want fiefdoms or power pockets in the organization, so the idea Rhule pounds the table to get the GM he wants isn't just laughable, it is incorrect.
Presumably they got a guy that both the owner and the coach
are excited about working with. Good teams that run a full and effective search generally do. Mature and effective organizations don't have one person make a decision. They respect each other and listen to each other to make the best decision possible.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
RE: Presumably they got a guy that both the owner and the coach
In comment 15123431 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
are excited about working with. Good teams that run a full and effective search generally do. Mature and effective organizations don't have one person make a decision. They respect each other and listen to each other to make the best decision possible.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
Exactly. Tepper made Rhule one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL right out of Baylor.
Just go back and read the events leading to Rhule’s hire, and how ecstatic Tepper was about getting his man. Look at this quote after the hire...
I’m sure FMiC is correct that Tepper and the organization ran a thorough search looking for a GM. That’s been reported elsewhere as well. And how they brought in between 15-20 candidates and used an independent firm. It wasn’t like they brought in a former GM with ties to the organization to lead the search, btw... ; )
And I’m sure Tepper was the guy who called Fitterer to make the formal offer, etc, etc. But there is absolutely no way Tepper got there without Rhule signing off. NFW. He’s way too invested in the guy. Which in essence makes this Rhule’s hire.
The strange thing here is I’m not a Rhule guy at all. I didn’t want the Giants to touch him for a variety of reasons. So I have no preconceived bias to come here and make this strong case for him.
But this isn’t hard to follow to connect the dots. Rhule is second in command with the Panthers behind Tepper. And he got the GM he wanted.
Of course Rhule had an up or down vote. An owner doesn't commit to $62 mill for a HC, then not listen to his needs. Why would you hire a GM to be contentious with the HC? Once you do this you live or die with the HC.
Both FMiC and bw are correct and arguing from different POVs. There is no doubt the committee decided on the GM and that Rhule was part of the process. There is little doubt that the GM was approved by Rhule but he was also approved by Tepper and the other members of the committee.
So you can say equally that this was Tepper's guy, Rhule's guy and the guy of every member of the committee.
No. The Panthers got their GM. Rhule had input on the hire. Saying this is Rhule getting "his guy" makes it seem that he's the overriding vote. That isn't what happened.
You want to play connect the dots? The Panthers have a group of several people in on the interviews. They connect with 12-15 candidates in a first run. They narrow the list down to 4 for second interviews - a process that has been taking up most of their time since the season ended. They've spent several hours as a team debating the fit of the people. The committee recommended their final choice and Tepper makes the offer.
In what world does that indicate that Rhule was the overriding voice or the driver? In a world where a guy steps into a thread without knowing the facts and now will just try to steer a false narrative to avoid being wrong.
By the way - at the end of the process, Tepper has been ecstatic that they did this as a group. He is really happy right now.
You should stick to connecting dots with the Giants. You don't seem any better at doing it with them, but at least you get a much more interested audience to peddle the bullshit to.
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
This is the dilemma with QBs costing too much money. In general, QBs and DEs are paid far too much money percentage wise vs the rest of the team. Just because you are a starting QB does not make you equal with Patrick Mahomes. Of all the young QBs out there Lamar Jackson may be the closest in single importance to his team. But because a large part of his offensive style is running he is more prone to a massive injury(although I think he is built for running as much as he does). Josh Allen is looking to be the next.
So does Baltimore commit huge dollars to a guy who without his running ability is a question mark at QB? Good luck with that one. One look a Dak Prescott's injury(a very stout QB) should give every team pause.
No doubt Lamar is a top 10, even top 5 player in the NFL. Will he be in another 5 years?
Basically, the Ravens are at a decision point with Jackson - pay him or don't. You pay him you're looking at probably $35-$40M a year. I love Jackson and think he's one of the five best players in the sport, but that's a big nut for anyone. So in their shoes I'd ask around what I could get for him in trade, and if I got a good offer I'd probably do it after his fourth year.
Alternatively, I'd be fine paying him too. He's an elite player, so elite money isn't a mistake.
Either way - trade him or pay him. Either route works.
Now you know, and can stop fucking it up.
Ok, so your position with Lamar is either pay him or trade him. Got all your bases covered there, I guess.
No ones mentioned Fitterer was originally hired into the NFL by Ernie Accorsi, with the Giants, Ernie strikes again!
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
As long as Rhule was signed off on it too.
Section as well.
How about seeing this as a careful search followed by a group decision with Tepper and Rhule carrying more weight than others? Nothing odd or strange about any of this.
I’ve echoed nearly all of that above.
The only piece I’ve maintained, however, is this is really Rhule’s GM because Tepper wouldn’t hire a GM - because a he ultimately writes the checks - without Rhule’s final approval.
If Tepper was very fond of candidate but Rhule wasn’t, do you think Tepper still makes the hire? Of course not. And why not? Because Tepper knows Rhule is THE football guy and knows how and what he wants to build. So I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say this would ultimately come down to Rhule getting the guy he’s most comfortable with...
Tepper has to be on board as well. But Rhule is the key.
That doesn't mean Rhule is not on board with the choice - it means the process played out as they intended.
But we know why bw wants it said this was a Rhule hire - because for the Giants he characterizes everything as a Mara hire. This hire was done exactly as Tepper envisioned it would. It was a detailed process. It was data driven. And it was collaborative. He does not want fiefdoms or power pockets in the organization, so the idea Rhule pounds the table to get the GM he wants isn't just laughable, it is incorrect.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
These are serious people trying to find the right solution.
Exactly. Well put