And the first 8 games were a fluke. If you can’t beat a team that is not playing 3 of their 4 best players then you stink. Here is my assessment so far. Thibs is being loyal to guys that aren’t good. Payton should not see the floor again. Bullock is useless most nights. Quickley, Knox and Robinson are the only players that are exciting to watch besides Randle of course. Barrett is a really bad basketball player right now and does not deserve the minutes he is playing if your trying to win. Now if you don’t want to win then that’s fine oaky him, but we have lost at least 3 games thisbyear because of these loyalties and to Payton and Barrett which I don’t get.
Payton doesnt play tonight and Knicks start Quickley they win easily..
Payton is a detriment to this team Teams literally dont even guard him so by the end of the set ball find him wide open and of course brick..
Rj played well tonight up until a terriblr final minute..
And the first 8 games were a fluke. If you can’t beat a team that is not playing 3 of their 4 best players then you stink. Here is my assessment so far. Thibs is being loyal to guys that aren’t good. Payton should not see the floor again. Bullock is useless most nights. Quickley, Knox and Robinson are the only players that are exciting to watch besides Randle of course. Barrett is a really bad basketball player right now and does not deserve the minutes he is playing if your trying to win. Now if you don’t want to win then that’s fine oaky him, but we have lost at least 3 games thisbyear because of these loyalties and to Payton and Barrett which I don’t get.
I agree completely except for the RJ comment.
I would hope they can move Randle and Burks at the deadline for more picks.
I am fine with running with Quickley, Toppin, Mitch, Knox, and RJ.
Let them burn this season getting minutes.
We need the best odds possible in this up coming draft. It is a franchise changing draft.
Probably 5 to 7 deep .
RE: RE: Yeah, Quickley starting is obvious at this point.
Get a high first rounder that can eventually be used to get Beal I don’t see the point of trading him. There are no free agents to sign in the offseason. You minds will keep him next year and see if he keeps up this play.
We are going to get screwed again because the ideal scenario was to get 2 max guys via trade/free agency over the next two years and then go over cap to extend Mitch. The problem is the young players we have are taking forever to develop or may never develop into worthy trade bait. Which I would be fine being patient with development if we weren’t in year 22 of stinking. I’m sick of the awful product. And now we are going to be in a scenario where some of these young guys are going to have to be extended or just let go before we know how good they can really be. Or in a case like Barrett, we will have to probably give him a $20 mil per year contract for a player with not great upside but who plays hard. These contracts will eat up the cap space eventually.
I would imagine the value of each player is as follows:
Barrett - protected 1st rounder 14-20 range
Knox - 2nd rounder, maybe a late first rounder
Frank - 2nd rounder
Mitch - top 10 protected 1st rounder
Smith Jr - throw in expiring contract
Randle - top 10 protected 1st rounder or 2 mid to late first rounders
Burks - late first or 2nd rounders
Right now none of these guys are worthy of a Brandon Ingram/Lonzo Bal or SGA or levert/Allen combo that other teams got in blockbuster trades in addition to picks
The combination of bad draft picks on the drafts the pst 4 years and lack of free agents over the next few years. This team is at least another 5 years away from seriously competing if they hit it right on the next few drafts. I’m nowhere near giving up on Obi Toppin, but at the end of the day it’s another player who can’t create his own shot. He is a shorter, less athletic Mitch, who can’t play defense and may hit a 3 pointer or 2 per game. How they pass on Halliburton when it was such an obvious pick is ridiculous. I just don’t get why this organization does not prioritize efficient shooting. Why do we as fans see the pick so easily and the ‘professionals’ miss all the time. Imagine we had mitchell right now. Porzingis probably wouldn’t have been traded (I know he is always hurt, but still an elite twlent). We probably could have convinced an elite free agent to join Knicks with those 2 as the cornerstone. I am really getting sick of this organization more and more everyday. I don’t know why but that loss last night to a mediocre team that was missing 3 of its best players and the loss to the nets with durant and a bunch of scrubs really set me off. If you can’t win those 2 games and win them easily then you are a really bad team.
My bad for the rant, I’m taking a few Knicks games off
I feel so bad for you guys. Two decades of this with no end in sight. At least for someone my age I got to see the Willis & Clyde teams. I don't even know what the Knicks can do at this point everything they try backfires. I was worried about Toppin on draft night. I had no idea who he was and never saw him play for one minute. But reading about his game and seeing they passed on yet another point guard you didn't need a weatherman to see which way the wind blows.
and out of the rotation, next is take Bullock out of the rotation..
Quickley/rivers
Rj/ Burks
Knox
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/noel or Gibson’s
Immediately adds more shooting to the lineup, floor is spread for Randle and when he kicks it out there are actual shooters.
I agree with this lineup
I think Quickly makes RJ Knox and Mitch so much better
Unfortunately I feel Randle should be traded ASAP before his value drops
He’s their best player but in the way of Obi
If Knicks could get a first rounder and take back a one year contract I think that would work
Unfortunately I feel Randle should be traded ASAP before his value drops
Unfortunately, NBA GMs aren’t complete idiots. They have memories that go back more than 3 weeks. Randle’s value did not suddenly become a significant trade asset.
is 4 years older than Obi and performing at an all star level.
The guy to trade is Obi, and they should extend Julius.
Yeah you dont trade randle, you have 2 pieces maybe 3 right now in Mitch, Randle, Quickley..Build around them and stsrt getting somewhere..
People are so afraid of building a treadmill team, but if you keep adding the right pieces you dont stay a treadmill
I agree with this. I'm not sure Quickley is starting PG material for a good team but he's certainly in the rotation.
An RJ/Obi duo is pretty compelling on the trade market, and should be shopped aggressively for a legitimate no 1 or 2 scoring option. Beal and Zach Lavine come to mind.
I'd also still go after Lonzo from the Pelicans. Can't imagine them keeping him with Kira and Bledsoe, especially with a new contract coming up.
games as it is, but I swear they NEVER win when Ken Maurer is the ref. I hate that guy.
Drummond is a beast, but he's basically impossible to guard when he's allowed to travel whenever he wants, hang out in the lane for 10 seconds at a time, and commit as many fouls as he wants. Of course, Mitch playing on one leg for most of the game didn't help.
If the Knicks end up with 1 of Oladipo, Hield, Lavine or Beal by the deadline..
I think Rose and Thibs are going to be agressive andnthey have no allegiance to Rj, he was drafted by Mills and Fiz..
I think you can start Quick or Rivers at the point right now because you run the offense through Randle, they spread the floor for him to work and rather them get kickouts then Payton..
Payton on the floor is playing 4 on 5 offenskvely, it is like play jared jeffries but at least jeffries brought defensively
games as it is, but I swear they NEVER win when Ken Maurer is the ref. I hate that guy.
Drummond is a beast, but he's basically impossible to guard when he's allowed to travel whenever he wants, hang out in the lane for 10 seconds at a time, and commit as many fouls as he wants. Of course, Mitch playing on one leg for most of the game didn't help.
Knicks have had some horrid officials this year, all thats left is Kane Fitzgerald
30 games playing Randle 40 minutes a night instead of winning 20 games giving Obi some of his minutes.
Knox should be getting ALL of Bullocks' minutes, even after Burks comes back.
The thing with Randle is, are you comfortable giving him a 35-40M a year contract? To me he's a tier 3 star, good stats but I don't think he's a winning player. He'll be all worlds for 3 quarters and then bricks a free throw or throws the ball away when the game is on the line. I know we are starved for serviceable players, but hitching your wagon to Randle is no way a sure bet.
RE: We need to find out what we have in Obi. I see no point winning
30 games playing Randle 40 minutes a night instead of winning 20 games giving Obi some of his minutes.
Knox should be getting ALL of Bullocks' minutes, even after Burks comes back.
The thing with Randle is, are you comfortable giving him a 35-40M a year contract? To me he's a tier 3 star, good stats but I don't think he's a winning player. He'll be all worlds for 3 quarters and then bricks a free throw or throws the ball away when the game is on the line. I know we are starved for serviceable players, but hitching your wagon to Randle is no way a sure bet.
Dude is averaging 24 and 10 and 5 on 55% shootint man, those players do not grow on trees..
Is he going to win you games by himself? no he needs a costar..
and you dont have to worry about paying him until after next year..
Randle (unless someone offers a shit load)
IQ
Mitch
Everyone else is fair game. Everyone is fair game even the keepers but if you moved Toppin you have Randle still here and vice versa. Me, I rather keep the bird in the hand which is Randle.
RJB, Toppin and a bunch of picks for Beal. Do it. You then have two big players and room for more. You’d have IQ and Mitch and maybe Knox. Room for more.
Looking at the standings, we have by far the worst roster in the
having a monster year and has been good for a while but his team has always sucked.
13 games ago everybody, and I mean everybody, wanted Randle gone, now suddenly he's the savior? Maybe too strong, a main cog?
Let's see where this team is in a couple of months first before making moves, that's all I am saying, but we should definitely be allotting time to the youngsters.
RE: Eh, to me Randle is at best the #3 player on a great team. Beal is
having a monster year and has been good for a while but his team has always sucked.
13 games ago everybody, and I mean everybody, wanted Randle gone, now suddenly he's the savior? Maybe too strong, a main cog?
Let's see where this team is in a couple of months first before making moves, that's all I am saying, but we should definitely be allotting time to the youngsters.
What young player is not playing?
and you cant jjst had 1 star and expect that player to carry the team by themself, there is exactly 1 player who can do that and thats lebron..
Every star needs a costar, how much winning did Anthony Davis do in New Orleans? people like to say oh that guy is good but he is not winning, players no matrer how good need help
you act like a player cant get better, a bad seasom doesnt make a career..
Randle could easily fall back down to earth but for right now he is a keeper
This coming from the guy who wants to trade Barrett.And pretty soon you'll want to fire the coach,I think we can all see that coming.
You've always liked Randle,even last year you sounded more like an MSG employee.
Am i the only one saying trade Barrett?
Yes i liked randle and wanted the Knicks to sign him, but he had a nad year last year..
and have i been wrong about previous coaches??
and no i like Thibs.
and that is funny coming from the guy that adds absolutely zero to threads, just pops in says something no one understands that makes zero sense and doesnt post again..
RE: Eh, to me Randle is at best the #3 player on a great team. Beal is
having a monster year and has been good for a while but his team has always sucked.
13 games ago everybody, and I mean everybody, wanted Randle gone, now suddenly he's the savior? Maybe too strong, a main cog?
Let's see where this team is in a couple of months first before making moves, that's all I am saying, but we should definitely be allotting time to the youngsters.
I was never as down on Randle as most here, so it wasn’t everybody.
#3 player on good team. Go all in on Beal make that trade happen. With those two then you need a star player to sign as a FA. That’s basically the only way to improve (Right away). Now if you want to build long term, another story.
#3 player on good team. Go all in on Beal make that trade happen. With those two then you need a star player to sign as a FA. That’s basically the only way to improve (Right away). Now if you want to build long term, another story.
This is really not crazy. With the right Beal trade they'll still have plenty of flexibility in FA and possibly the draft.
I just want to see this team with competent point gaurd play
I dont think this team is as bad as they have played the past 5 games, and you see a different team when Rivers or Quickley are playing point and there are minimum 2 3 point threats on the court..
Problem woth Rj and why people want to trad ehim is he is going to be hard to build around, watcbing him is like watching an nba2k game, very herky jerky, he is nkt smooth whatsover
You throw in what it takes to get Beal, Randle #3. (That’s assuming there is a #1 who is coming to play with those two). Not sure you go all in without another commitment. Some here say do it anyway.
but guys will want to come play for a team with a Beal/Randle/Mitch core.
All young, all improving. Kawhi's a free agent, but here's unlikely.
There's a second, aging tier of PGs with Paul, Lowry and Jrue who would all fit nicely. DeRozan probably fits well with those guys. Oladipo could even work.
Won't be the best trio in the world but they'd be competitive in the east. Probably a top 5 seed.
Payton doesnt play tonight and Knicks start Quickley they win easily..
Payton is a detriment to this team Teams literally dont even guard him so by the end of the set ball find him wide open and of course brick..
Rj played well tonight up until a terriblr final minute..
Not time to panic on Obi, but I was expecting a more aggressive player on offense. Nothing about his game is really jumping out at me.
Not time to panic on Obi, but I was expecting a more aggressive player on offense. Nothing about his game is really jumping out at me.
The offense jist looks so much better and id start Knox, shooting 40% from 3 can space the floor doesnt need the ball..
and im cqlling the bulls and offering Rj for Lavine, Lavine would be a great fit and then all of suddem you got a good shooting team..
Bench rivers, Burks, Toppin, Noel or Gibson
I agree completely except for the RJ comment.
I would hope they can move Randle and Burks at the deadline for more picks.
I am fine with running with Quickley, Toppin, Mitch, Knox, and RJ.
Let them burn this season getting minutes.
We need the best odds possible in this up coming draft. It is a franchise changing draft.
Probably 5 to 7 deep .
Quote:
If/when he’s having a “rookie” night, lean on Payton a little more.
Not time to panic on Obi, but I was expecting a more aggressive player on offense. Nothing about his game is really jumping out at me.
The offense jist looks so much better and id start Knox, shooting 40% from 3 can space the floor doesnt need the ball..
and im cqlling the bulls and offering Rj for Lavine, Lavine would be a great fit and then all of suddem you got a good shooting team..
Bench rivers, Burks, Toppin, Noel or Gibson
It's going to take a lot more than RJ for Lavine.
Quote:
In comment 15123981 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
If/when he’s having a “rookie” night, lean on Payton a little more.
Not time to panic on Obi, but I was expecting a more aggressive player on offense. Nothing about his game is really jumping out at me.
The offense jist looks so much better and id start Knox, shooting 40% from 3 can space the floor doesnt need the ball..
and im cqlling the bulls and offering Rj for Lavine, Lavine would be a great fit and then all of suddem you got a good shooting team..
Bench rivers, Burks, Toppin, Noel or Gibson
It's going to take a lot more than RJ for Lavine.
oh i know
We are going to get screwed again because the ideal scenario was to get 2 max guys via trade/free agency over the next two years and then go over cap to extend Mitch. The problem is the young players we have are taking forever to develop or may never develop into worthy trade bait. Which I would be fine being patient with development if we weren’t in year 22 of stinking. I’m sick of the awful product. And now we are going to be in a scenario where some of these young guys are going to have to be extended or just let go before we know how good they can really be. Or in a case like Barrett, we will have to probably give him a $20 mil per year contract for a player with not great upside but who plays hard. These contracts will eat up the cap space eventually.
I would imagine the value of each player is as follows:
Barrett - protected 1st rounder 14-20 range
Knox - 2nd rounder, maybe a late first rounder
Frank - 2nd rounder
Mitch - top 10 protected 1st rounder
Smith Jr - throw in expiring contract
Randle - top 10 protected 1st rounder or 2 mid to late first rounders
Burks - late first or 2nd rounders
Right now none of these guys are worthy of a Brandon Ingram/Lonzo Bal or SGA or levert/Allen combo that other teams got in blockbuster trades in addition to picks
The combination of bad draft picks on the drafts the pst 4 years and lack of free agents over the next few years. This team is at least another 5 years away from seriously competing if they hit it right on the next few drafts. I’m nowhere near giving up on Obi Toppin, but at the end of the day it’s another player who can’t create his own shot. He is a shorter, less athletic Mitch, who can’t play defense and may hit a 3 pointer or 2 per game. How they pass on Halliburton when it was such an obvious pick is ridiculous. I just don’t get why this organization does not prioritize efficient shooting. Why do we as fans see the pick so easily and the ‘professionals’ miss all the time. Imagine we had mitchell right now. Porzingis probably wouldn’t have been traded (I know he is always hurt, but still an elite twlent). We probably could have convinced an elite free agent to join Knicks with those 2 as the cornerstone. I am really getting sick of this organization more and more everyday. I don’t know why but that loss last night to a mediocre team that was missing 3 of its best players and the loss to the nets with durant and a bunch of scrubs really set me off. If you can’t win those 2 games and win them easily then you are a really bad team.
My bad for the rant, I’m taking a few Knicks games off
Quickley/rivers
Rj/ Burks
Knox
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/noel or Gibson
Immediately adds more shooting to the lineup, floor is spread for Randle and when he kicks it out there are actual shooters.
He needs more game time.
He needs more game time.
Yeah i dont know why he didnt dunk it
He needs more game time.
I wonder if his recent injury was in the back of his mind
Quickley/rivers
Rj/ Burks
Knox
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/noel or Gibson’s
Immediately adds more shooting to the lineup, floor is spread for Randle and when he kicks it out there are actual shooters.
I agree with this lineup
I think Quickly makes RJ Knox and Mitch so much better
Unfortunately I feel Randle should be traded ASAP before his value drops
He’s their best player but in the way of Obi
If Knicks could get a first rounder and take back a one year contract I think that would work
The guy to trade is Obi, and they should extend Julius.
The guy to trade is Obi, and they should extend Julius.
Yeah you dont trade randle, you have 2 pieces maybe 3 right now in Mitch, Randle, Quickley..Build around them and stsrt getting somewhere..
People are so afraid of building a treadmill team, but if you keep adding the right pieces you dont stay a treadmill
Unfortunately I feel Randle should be traded ASAP before his value drops
Unfortunately, NBA GMs aren’t complete idiots. They have memories that go back more than 3 weeks. Randle’s value did not suddenly become a significant trade asset.
Quote:
is 4 years older than Obi and performing at an all star level.
The guy to trade is Obi, and they should extend Julius.
Yeah you dont trade randle, you have 2 pieces maybe 3 right now in Mitch, Randle, Quickley..Build around them and stsrt getting somewhere..
People are so afraid of building a treadmill team, but if you keep adding the right pieces you dont stay a treadmill
I agree with this. I'm not sure Quickley is starting PG material for a good team but he's certainly in the rotation.
An RJ/Obi duo is pretty compelling on the trade market, and should be shopped aggressively for a legitimate no 1 or 2 scoring option. Beal and Zach Lavine come to mind.
I'd also still go after Lonzo from the Pelicans. Can't imagine them keeping him with Kira and Bledsoe, especially with a new contract coming up.
Drummond is a beast, but he's basically impossible to guard when he's allowed to travel whenever he wants, hang out in the lane for 10 seconds at a time, and commit as many fouls as he wants. Of course, Mitch playing on one leg for most of the game didn't help.
I think Rose and Thibs are going to be agressive andnthey have no allegiance to Rj, he was drafted by Mills and Fiz..
I think you can start Quick or Rivers at the point right now because you run the offense through Randle, they spread the floor for him to work and rather them get kickouts then Payton..
Payton on the floor is playing 4 on 5 offenskvely, it is like play jared jeffries but at least jeffries brought defensively
I'm not sure what the story is there but free NAW.
Drummond is a beast, but he's basically impossible to guard when he's allowed to travel whenever he wants, hang out in the lane for 10 seconds at a time, and commit as many fouls as he wants. Of course, Mitch playing on one leg for most of the game didn't help.
Knicks have had some horrid officials this year, all thats left is Kane Fitzgerald
I'm not sure what the story is there but free NAW.
He started last night, he likes to chuck, i think he is a 6th man
Knox should be getting ALL of Bullocks' minutes, even after Burks comes back.
The thing with Randle is, are you comfortable giving him a 35-40M a year contract? To me he's a tier 3 star, good stats but I don't think he's a winning player. He'll be all worlds for 3 quarters and then bricks a free throw or throws the ball away when the game is on the line. I know we are starved for serviceable players, but hitching your wagon to Randle is no way a sure bet.
Knox should be getting ALL of Bullocks' minutes, even after Burks comes back.
The thing with Randle is, are you comfortable giving him a 35-40M a year contract? To me he's a tier 3 star, good stats but I don't think he's a winning player. He'll be all worlds for 3 quarters and then bricks a free throw or throws the ball away when the game is on the line. I know we are starved for serviceable players, but hitching your wagon to Randle is no way a sure bet.
Dude is averaging 24 and 10 and 5 on 55% shootint man, those players do not grow on trees..
Is he going to win you games by himself? no he needs a costar..
and you dont have to worry about paying him until after next year..
and its not like he is 30, he is 26
To me the keepers are:
Randle (unless someone offers a shit load)
IQ
Mitch
Everyone else is fair game. Everyone is fair game even the keepers but if you moved Toppin you have Randle still here and vice versa. Me, I rather keep the bird in the hand which is Randle.
RJB, Toppin and a bunch of picks for Beal. Do it. You then have two big players and room for more. You’d have IQ and Mitch and maybe Knox. Room for more.
Unless NBA fucks us again, we should get a top 3 pick. Play the young players and add a real stud through the draft this time. Let's hope.
Pairing Randle with Beal is just meh. There is Batman and Robin, and then there is that....
Unless NBA fucks us again, we should get a top 3 pick. Play the young players and add a real stud through the draft this time. Let's hope.
Pairing Randle with Beal is just meh. There is Batman and Robin, and then there is that....
Beal is a top 10 player in this league..
If the team has no talent why would you trade their best talent? that makes zero sense..
You act like if you keep randle you cant build a good team, that is simply not true
13 games ago everybody, and I mean everybody, wanted Randle gone, now suddenly he's the savior? Maybe too strong, a main cog?
Let's see where this team is in a couple of months first before making moves, that's all I am saying, but we should definitely be allotting time to the youngsters.
13 games ago everybody, and I mean everybody, wanted Randle gone, now suddenly he's the savior? Maybe too strong, a main cog?
Let's see where this team is in a couple of months first before making moves, that's all I am saying, but we should definitely be allotting time to the youngsters.
What young player is not playing?
and you cant jjst had 1 star and expect that player to carry the team by themself, there is exactly 1 player who can do that and thats lebron..
Every star needs a costar, how much winning did Anthony Davis do in New Orleans? people like to say oh that guy is good but he is not winning, players no matrer how good need help
Thibs' obsession with Elfrid makes this team appear worse than it actually is.
I'm not sure what the story is there but free NAW.
Absolutely not
It's as if last year didn't happen,or even anything before that,we got ourselves a brand new player.
Thibs' obsession with Elfrid makes this team appear worse than it actually is.
Agreed we have seen this team perform well when they have had good ppint guard play
Quote:
13 games ago everybody, and I mean everybody, wanted Randle gone, now suddenly he's the savior? Maybe too strong, a main cog?
It's as if last year didn't happen,or even anything before that,we got ourselves a brand new player.
you act like a player cant get better, a bad seasom doesnt make a career..
Randle could easily fall back down to earth but for right now he is a keeper
Quote:
shit I'd go after Nickeil Alexander-Walker. Whenever he plays he puts up huge numbers.
I'm not sure what the story is there but free NAW.
Absolutely not
Hahahaha, I love you, Greg. Two Dukies on this team is bad enough, but a Hokie is where you draw the line!
Randle could easily fall back down to earth but for right now he is a keeper
This coming from the guy who wants to trade Barrett.And pretty soon you'll want to fire the coach,I think we can all see that coming.
You've always liked Randle,even last year you sounded more like an MSG employee.
Quote:
you act like a player cant get better, a bad seasom doesnt make a career..
Randle could easily fall back down to earth but for right now he is a keeper
This coming from the guy who wants to trade Barrett.And pretty soon you'll want to fire the coach,I think we can all see that coming.
You've always liked Randle,even last year you sounded more like an MSG employee.
Am i the only one saying trade Barrett?
Yes i liked randle and wanted the Knicks to sign him, but he had a nad year last year..
and have i been wrong about previous coaches??
and no i like Thibs.
and that is funny coming from the guy that adds absolutely zero to threads, just pops in says something no one understands that makes zero sense and doesnt post again..
13 games ago everybody, and I mean everybody, wanted Randle gone, now suddenly he's the savior? Maybe too strong, a main cog?
Let's see where this team is in a couple of months first before making moves, that's all I am saying, but we should definitely be allotting time to the youngsters.
I was never as down on Randle as most here, so it wasn’t everybody.
This is really not crazy. With the right Beal trade they'll still have plenty of flexibility in FA and possibly the draft.
Problem woth Rj and why people want to trad ehim is he is going to be hard to build around, watcbing him is like watching an nba2k game, very herky jerky, he is nkt smooth whatsover
Burks doubtful, my guess he comes back for west coast trip
They have bigs, i would assume a package around Rj and a lot of picks
All young, all improving. Kawhi's a free agent, but here's unlikely.
There's a second, aging tier of PGs with Paul, Lowry and Jrue who would all fit nicely. DeRozan probably fits well with those guys. Oladipo could even work.
Won't be the best trio in the world but they'd be competitive in the east. Probably a top 5 seed.