team. Buffalo is good, and they played their asses off tonight. There's no shame in losing this game.
We are also talking about a game that if we played similarly, the QB would be getting ripped up and down.
There would most certainly be shame to score 3 points in a playoff loss with a chance to tie the game and end up with a pick 6.
You'd be leading the charge!
No, I wouldn't. Getting this far in the playoffs would feel like a miracle.
You think I'd rip Jones for losing in the divisional round on the road in his third season? You've got a short memory...I was here sticking up for Eli when that wasnt a popular thing to do.
When Jones earns some backing and some faith, I'll be right there giving it to him.
For Jones thus far getting to 20 points is a chore - let alone a divisional playoff game. Let him get us there next year, and he can throw ten picks in the game and I won't give him a tough time over it.
Jackson faces and will continue to face is that in the playoffs, the good teams can make you one-dimensional. They can force you to have to pass. We've seen it all 3 of his losses.
They way to overcome that is to get better as a passer so making you one-dimensional isn't possible. I don't think he can do that. He doesn't have the mechanics, the footwork or the vision. Being only 24 may not matter in those areas.
You might be right on that one. Maybe we’ve seen his ceiling. Regular season MVP but playoff chump. He could have changed some minds tonight, but didn’t.
No, it seems at least on BBI, he can’t change minds. Some people desperately don’t want their minds changed.
Next week when Josh Allen loses he will also suck. Anything that challenges the pre conceived notion will be rejected.
If the Bills lose by scoring 3 points and Allen throws a terrible pick, he'll get criticized. Just like he was criticized when he blew the end of the Texans game last year.
ANY QB will.
Look - replace the Ravens with the Giants tonight - what would BBI say about the QB play? They'd want Jones cut tommorrow and you damn well know it. Terps would be ranting and raving - not saying "oh, we lost to a great Buffalo team".
And that's the hypocrisy of the post - some people don't want their minds changed - you included.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Lamar = less accurate Randall Cunningham
The things he needs to get better at aren’t solved with some elbow grease in the off-season. His issues are the same issues as when he came into the league.
This is the best possible scheme for him. He is who he is. Really he has no where to go but down as the injuries pile up and his legs become less of a factor.
I don't know what LJax does in the offseason, but there are some very good QB coaches out there - Jordan Palmer, for example - who could help.
I doubt Jordan Palmer takes him on, he has a reputation to protect. He’s a massive fix and at this point a lost cause.
I give Lamar credit though, these young athlete QBs are understanding it earlier. We are seeing more and more of these guys that can actually play QB at an NFL level. He went up Louisville and worked on being a actual QB. With his athletic ability he could of easily just ran the ball and won a fuckton of games like these guys used to. More anc more you are seeing these really athletic QBs try to be throw first.
The real question is, I’m not sure you can ever develop to get to that elite level making decisions and reading defenses that all the greats have that as soon as it gets hard you can take off a run. Obviously Lamar could do better with his mechanics and getting ball to sidelines, but it’s not all that.
Decision making, especially in big spots, is something that evolves for many quarterbacks.
For guys that consistently do it in the pocket under pressure. The problem is Lamar doesn’t get that experience because against all the mediocre and bad defenses he can rely on his legs to make plays for him when push comes to shove. Go up against disciplined defenses and we saw the results. The Bills D isn’t even good.
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
I’m not sure Giants fans would be critical of Jones if he’d notched an MVP, won a playoff game, and was 23 games over .500,
Hell, if Jones is the league MVP next year, the Giants win 10 games, a playoff game, and he shits the bed in the divisional round, I’d celebrate all offseason.
I’m not sure Giants fans would be critical of Jones if he’d notched an MVP, won a playoff game, and was 23 games over .500,
Hell, if Jones is the league MVP next year, the Giants win 10 games, a playoff game, and he shits the bed in the divisional round, I’d celebrate all offseason.
That's what's amazing to me. It's like the Giants have been good, and we've just been stuck in the Matrix or something. In the world I live in, they're 15-33 the last three seasons.
That's not worthy of criticism? If that isn't, what is?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Lamar = less accurate Randall Cunningham
The real question is, I’m not sure you can ever develop to get to that elite level making decisions and reading defenses that all the greats have that as soon as it gets hard you can take off a run. Obviously Lamar could do better with his mechanics and getting ball to sidelines, but it’s not all that.
He's got 68 career TD passes and only 18 INTs. That's a 3.8 ration, which is pretty damn good. And some pretty good decisions...
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Jones turns 24 next year. If he won a playoff game, and then shit the bed in round 2, we’d all still be besides ourselves with joy. The idea of him winning even one playoff game next year is a glorious pipe dream at this point. Completely different expectations.
That's what's amazing to me. It's like the Giants have been good, and we've just been stuck in the Matrix or something. In the world I live in, they're 15-33 the last three seasons.
That's not worthy of criticism? If that isn't, what is?
It’s really weird. Personally, I’m stupid optimistic about the Giants. I can find positivity in almost anything.
If Jones won a playoff game, I’d be on here finding ways to prove his trajectory was Super Bowl bound.
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Jones turns 24 next year. If he won a playoff game, and then shit the bed in round 2, we’d all still be besides ourselves with joy. The idea of him winning even one playoff game next year is a glorious pipe dream at this point. Completely different expectations.
Comparing the Giants and Ravens right now is apples to oranges. But FMIC is the ultimate Giants Shill so he’s taking this as a victory lap.
In comment 15125100 Ned In Atlanta said:
[quote] In comment 15125097 Jim from Katonah said:
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In comment 15125087 Go Terps said:
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It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Jones turns 24 next year. If he won a playoff game, and then shit the bed in round 2, we’d all still be besides ourselves with joy. The idea of him winning even one playoff game next year is a glorious pipe dream at this point. Completely different expectations.
Comparing the Giants and Ravens right now is apples to oranges. But FMIC is the ultimate Giants Shill so he’s taking this as a victory lap. [/quote
Lamar has proven he’s good enough to shepherd a team to 13-3, and good enough to win at least one playoff game. We haven’t sniffed .500 and I’m not even sure if Jones has ever beaten a .500 plus team (it was McCoy who won the Seattle game, our sad little high point the past 4 years). Maybe next year Jones can start to move to some sort of relevance where if he loses, opposing fans can call him a choker like Lamar. Fingers crossed.
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
.
Has he really? Doesn't surprise me at all. Pathetic
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
So has everyone else, up to and including Accorsi, who said he played scared. That's not made up.
And no, I don't think LJ is anywhere near the passer Kurt was at this point in his career, but that can change. Lamar is still only 24, he has the tools to develop into a better passer if he puts the work in and if the team gets better players around him.
Baltimore wouldn't be in the playoffs without him. He had to throw to Dez Bryant (who was running around with a fork in his back), working with a poor OL that can't pass block, and without any real threats at WR, and still carried the team on his back.
Oh, and I don't think it helps to "taylor" the offense around him, either...I think that has hurt his development as an NFL QB. I think you'd see a much more complete player if his head coach was Andy Reid, for example.
If you want to give him credit for getting over the hump and winning a playoff game, fine I guess. But the Ravens defense really carried that team last week and was the primary reason they defeated the Titans.
I mean, they won 20-17 and shut down Henry. Lamar is 1-3, and hasn't played well in any playoff game. He's one-dimensional, and yes, he has gaudy regular season numbers, mainly because he gets more than his fair share of wide open receivers, which, to be fair, is because of the immense respect he demands as a runner.
To me, this was never a Daniel Jones vs Lamar argument. Not sure what the relevance of Jones is. I wasn't a fan of the DJ pick at the time either. But the Lamar worship has gone on and on, including the narrative that Gettleman should've drafted him, and yet, I'll stand by my eval of him from back then. Tremendous athlete, bad QB. This will continue to happen with him year after year until he can't escape and rip off those 50 yard runs anymore, and then he'll be finished.
So, the Center is hiking the ball all over the place all night
...and the kicker misses two kicks, but the Ravens lost solely because of Jackson? Ok...
If you ask me, I thought their play calling was crap. They were moving the ball with ease on their first drive, and then just completely changed their plan.
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
You remember at the end of last year you called me out because I was critical of Daniel Jones's performance? You said I was more or less doing my contrarian schtick when most were feeling good about his rookie season. Remember that? How are you feeling now?
Not sure the reason for their (curious) vitriol, but they will go to bed happy. Lamar has had one of most remarkable careers to date for a 24 year old — Heisman, NFL MVP, playoff win — but questions of course remain about him until he makes a deep run and wins it all.
Fingers crossed that one day fans of other teams will give a shit enough about our guy that they’ll be this gleeful when he fails. Fingers crossed that some day soon that our guy will be in a position to be called a “pathetic choker” like Lamar. Teddy Roosevelt has the best quote on this, but too tired to type any more.
Oh boo hoo! Poor Lamar Jackson. Spare us your same old lecture on this guy. We are just coming off a stellar career of a 15 year starting QB who never missed a game and won us 2 Super Bowl titles along the way and guess what? He was pretty much taken for granted all 15 years. Eli could never measure in the eyes of many a Giant fan, I read it right here on this board his entire career. Eli also happens to be white so maybe you should stop insinuating foul play as well.
It boils down to the fact that Lamar Jackson gets his ass kissed by many of the same people here who refuse to acknowledge even an ounce of anything positive related to Jones or the franchise overall. Of course people will snicker when he sucks in the playoffs. Many quarterbacks have had to answer for a drop off in their postseason play. He’s not the first. Won’t be the last.
RE: RE: We're also talking about a divisional round loss on the road to a 13-3
team. Buffalo is good, and they played their asses off tonight. There's no shame in losing this game.
We are also talking about a game that if we played similarly, the QB would be getting ripped up and down.
There would most certainly be shame to score 3 points in a playoff loss with a chance to tie the game and end up with a pick 6.
You'd be leading the charge!
May I add, Josh Allen and his approx. 5.5 YPA? Oh and he fumbled. The kid had arguably an MVP year and certainly appears to be the goods, but on here? A one-legged DJ, who had been making a lot of progress with Garrett for 3 1/2 errorless, moving the chains (with Arm AND legs) games, then had his ups and downs post-injury, would have been killed on here..
Josh Allen had a good game against a very good defense.
His pocket presence is something to behold. He was bailing his OL out all night long. If Jones can put together a game like that ever, I’ll be a believer.
Jackson faces and will continue to face is that in the playoffs, the good teams can make you one-dimensional. They can force you to have to pass. We've seen it all 3 of his losses.
They way to overcome that is to get better as a passer so making you one-dimensional isn't possible. I don't think he can do that. He doesn't have the mechanics, the footwork or the vision. Being only 24 may not matter in those areas.
You might be right on that one. Maybe we’ve seen his ceiling. Regular season MVP but playoff chump. He could have changed some minds tonight, but didn’t.
No, it seems at least on BBI, he can’t change minds. Some people desperately don’t want their minds changed.
Next week when Josh Allen loses he will also suck. Anything that challenges the pre conceived notion will be rejected.
If the Bills lose by scoring 3 points and Allen throws a terrible pick, he'll get criticized. Just like he was criticized when he blew the end of the Texans game last year.
ANY QB will.
Look - replace the Ravens with the Giants tonight - what would BBI say about the QB play? They'd want Jones cut tommorrow and you damn well know it. Terps would be ranting and raving - not saying "oh, we lost to a great Buffalo team".
And that's the hypocrisy of the post - some people don't want their minds changed - you included.
Had Jones won the MVP this year and played like this in a playoff game, there would be no massive call to cut him tomorrow. That is ridiculously naive and biased.
And what opinion is it am I staunchly defending? Jackson is a good QB? That is an opinion shared by most everyone who watches NFL football.
RE: So, the Center is hiking the ball all over the place all night
...and the kicker misses two kicks, but the Ravens lost solely because of Jackson? Ok...
If you ask me, I thought their play calling was crap. They were moving the ball with ease on their first drive, and then just completely changed their plan.
Thank you for this, pretty simple. The Lamar hot takes also ignore that Dobbins dropped a couple of key balls, the OL had one of their worst games and the wind neutralized their 2nd biggest weapon - the kicker. But just like Eli, until Lamar carries a team to the Championship game / Super Bowl, he is garbage.
RE: Josh Allen had a good game against a very good defense.
His pocket presence is something to behold. He was bailing his OL out all night long. If Jones can put together a game like that ever, I’ll be a believer.
Not sure how a 5.5 ypa can be considered a “good game.” A managed game? Sure. DJ “managed” some pretty nice games pre-injury..I think too many people are already dug in about DJ (not necessarily you). I’ll wait for SB to return (assuming he’s good to go as I expect him to be) as a big aid to DJ.
A thread on here talks about how Garrett has been assessed depending on the AVAILABLE talent he has at his disposal. Should JG return, I look forward to all the options he’ll hopefully have available with a healthy SB and an improved receiving corps.
If DJ shows no progress, I’ll be one of the first to negatively assess his play. I am not dug in. Just trying to be fair.
had a big loss when their LT went down early in the season. They have very little at the WR position and are trotting out Dez Bryant. Over the many years they have put more resources into the defense.
Will be interesting to see if Jackson's representatives push for a contract and if the Ravens commit long term. If they feel Jackson can develop still as a pocket passer then they probably need to give him more help. As others stated, winning a championship requires teams to be balanced and be able to do things that are outside their strengths.
Looks similar to Allen’s last night in many respects. YPA was about the same and Eli also fumbled, with it being recovered by the Giants, but significantly threw no INTs. Key differences are that the 49ers defense was better than the 2020 Ravens and Eli had a lot more pass attempts and threw 2 TDS instead of Allen’s 1.
I don’t think Allen’s performance was in the same stratosphere as Eli’s but i’d say that we need to use our eyes in attention to the stats. The Bills OL was breaking down under a very intense Ravens pass rush, yet Allen was constantly preventing that from turning into negative yardage, and meanwhile completed about 66% of his passes, a good ratio, with no INTs. He was also using that cannon of an arm to force the Ravens to defend the whole field.
I wouldn’t call what he did being a game manager. It was more like playing winning football in a tough playoff context.
Quarterbacks that win awards and teams that make the playoffs
It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Ummm yes u would.
RE: Eli’s incredible 2011 NFC Championship stat line
Looks similar to Allen’s last night in many respects. YPA was about the same and Eli also fumbled, with it being recovered by the Giants, but significantly threw no INTs. Key differences are that the 49ers defense was better than the 2020 Ravens and Eli had a lot more pass attempts and threw 2 TDS instead of Allen’s 1.
I don’t think Allen’s performance was in the same stratosphere as Eli’s but i’d say that we need to use our eyes in attention to the stats. The Bills OL was breaking down under a very intense Ravens pass rush, yet Allen was constantly preventing that from turning into negative yardage, and meanwhile completed about 66% of his passes, a good ratio, with no INTs. He was also using that cannon of an arm to force the Ravens to defend the whole field.
I wouldn’t call what he did being a game manager. It was more like playing winning football in a tough playoff context.
That’s EXACTLY how I try to look at games..I simply noted the “5.5” and the “game manager” points as examples of what flucking goes on here. I only care about how the QB runs his team, regardless of stats or cliches. Yes, Eli is the perfect example. DJ has begun to learn how to win after the 0-5/1-7 starts, but needs better complements. He needs to continue to show improvement. Mistakes are going to happen no matter how much he hopefully improves..
Bottom line? DJ was moving this team when he had his legs. He was moving the chains and I’m not going to cite Engrams multiple TD drops to prop up DJ. That shit happens to all. But pre-injury he was doing a good job, but his lack of stats were constantly cited here, regardless of talent around him, health and so on..
So, all I, as a fan care about, is can this guy take charge of this team to help them ascend? Can he move the chains..I believe he can and has shown that. can he be more consistent moving forward with better personnel to work with? He better, or else he’s not our answer long term.
RE: Quarterbacks that win awards and teams that make the playoffs
Oh how I wish we could be so critical of our guys reaching these heights.
You’d still be pissing and moaning every step of the way. It’s in your nature. I’ve seen the Giants win 4 Super Bowls and even in those seasons the whining never stopped from this miserable fan base. There’s a large portion of Giants fans that absolutely deserve to be going through this extended drought. And you’re on top of the list. You don’t deserve a championship.
without showing hate for NY Giant fans no matter what they say. No matter what. Read your post here basically calling everybody a "miserable fan base".
You hate everybody on here and my guess is everybody who isn't even on here too.
RE: RE: Quarterbacks that win awards and teams that make the playoffs
Oh how I wish we could be so critical of our guys reaching these heights.
You’d still be pissing and moaning every step of the way. It’s in your nature. I’ve seen the Giants win 4 Super Bowls and even in those seasons the whining never stopped from this miserable fan base. There’s a large portion of Giants fans that absolutely deserve to be going through this extended drought. And you’re on top of the list. You don’t deserve a championship.
I completely agree with you that you need to watch the players perform to supplement the stats, and think almost every BBIer would agree. The problem is that when you watch Jones play, the issues jump off the screen. That’s why I’m skeptical of the “he needs better weapons” argument. My response is that Darius Slayton sure could use a better QB throwing to him.
Good discussion. The AFC Championship will be a humdinger. Peace out.
RE: What Big Blue Shock says is not necessarily wrong
I completely agree with you that you need to watch the players perform to supplement the stats, and think almost every BBIer would agree. The problem is that when you watch Jones play, the issues jump off the screen. That’s why I’m skeptical of the “he needs better weapons” argument. My response is that Darius Slayton sure could use a better QB throwing to him.
Good discussion. The AFC Championship will be a humdinger. Peace out.
team. Buffalo is good, and they played their asses off tonight. There's no shame in losing this game.
We are also talking about a game that if we played similarly, the QB would be getting ripped up and down.
There would most certainly be shame to score 3 points in a playoff loss with a chance to tie the game and end up with a pick 6.
You'd be leading the charge!
May I add, Josh Allen and his approx. 5.5 YPA? Oh and he fumbled. The kid had arguably an MVP year and certainly appears to be the goods, but on here? A one-legged DJ, who had been making a lot of progress with Garrett for 3 1/2 errorless, moving the chains (with Arm AND legs) games, then had his ups and downs post-injury, would have been killed on here..
Out of curiosity, did you watch the game?
Did you see Buffalo’s very strange game plan in the first half where they ran just 2X? The fewest rushing attempts ever in a playoff game for a half. Daboll seemed to be unaware of the wind conditions and cold. And still had Allen cutting it loose and throwing deep way too many times.
Allen’s second half was much better than his first, btw.
It’s funny, too, how Allen has one off game, in a season of very few, and you bring up Jones who had very few good games the entire season...
a thread from the archives last week that was ripping Eli. And this was after he had already won a SB MVP.
There's no doubt in my mind that any giants QB would get ripped for the same performance that happened last night.
Just look at what Terps said above. He stands by the idea Collins played scared in the SB and ripped him continually after that game, nevermind that he was playing against a historic defense.
When Jackson shit the bed, it is due to a tip of the cap to Buffalo and kudos for making it that far.
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
Jackson is an extremely productive QB. But it is clearly showing
though that he may not be a QB that can get his team to the promised land. Harbaugh and the other Raven coaches have to do something to raise up the part of his game that doesn't come with taking off and running.
That was a bad pick 6 and any QB in the league, including New York Giant QBs, should take some criticism for throwing it.
And, Kerry Collins absolutely played like a deer in headlights versus Ravens. And its not an excuse it was against a historic defense. He could have and needed to play better.
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
This 💯
RE: Jackson is an extremely productive QB. But it is clearly showing
though that he may not be a QB that can get his team to the promised land. Harbaugh and the other Raven coaches have to do something to raise up the part of his game that doesn't come with taking off and running.
That was a bad pick 6 and any QB in the league, including New York Giant QBs, should take some criticism for throwing it.
And, Kerry Collins absolutely played like a deer in headlights versus Ravens. And its not an excuse it was against a historic defense. He could have and needed to play better.
He does not have the arm talent. He doesn't. I know he's young, but that's not likely fixable. I'm telling you, when his mobility is degraded to the level of someone like, say, a Ryan Tannehill (who is pretty mobile), the wheels are going to completely fall off. It's going to get ugly.
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
Where are the excuses exactly? LJax made a major mistake that basically killed the game. That play had nothing to do with arm talent - which you recently cite - but a poor decision where he didn't see the safety.
A lot of QBs have made the mistake - average ones, good ones, great ones.
It gets highlighted because of LJax's post-season struggles. Not saying this isn't fair, but his regular season passing numbers, despite his unorthodox style, are absolutely nothing to sneeze at...
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
Where are the excuses exactly? LJax made a major mistake that basically killed the game. That play had nothing to do with arm talent - which you recently cite - but a poor decision where he didn't see the safety.
A lot of QBs have made the mistake - average ones, good ones, great ones.
It gets highlighted because of LJax's post-season struggles. Not saying this isn't fair, but his regular season passing numbers, despite his unorthodox style, are absolutely nothing to sneeze at...
I'm sorry, did I say that the INT was due to arm talent? No, no I did not. I said he's not going to get significantly better because of arm talent.
Him not seeing the defender IS a mistake that a lot of QBs make, yes. Him not getting his team a TD in 3 quarters, though...that doesn't happen with most championship caliber QBs. I do question whether or not he is a great decision maker as a passer, but that's very hard to evaluate because he's not a guy that is going to go through his progressions often. And his passing numbers are a function of his ability to hurt a team running with the football. It is not a function of his arm talent. That's why I said when his running ability is degraded, he won't be successful, and that's when you will see the passing numbers fall off a cliff, when defenses can play more traditional coverage packages.
Quote:
team. Buffalo is good, and they played their asses off tonight. There's no shame in losing this game.
We are also talking about a game that if we played similarly, the QB would be getting ripped up and down.
There would most certainly be shame to score 3 points in a playoff loss with a chance to tie the game and end up with a pick 6.
You'd be leading the charge!
No, I wouldn't. Getting this far in the playoffs would feel like a miracle.
You think I'd rip Jones for losing in the divisional round on the road in his third season? You've got a short memory...I was here sticking up for Eli when that wasnt a popular thing to do.
When Jones earns some backing and some faith, I'll be right there giving it to him.
For Jones thus far getting to 20 points is a chore - let alone a divisional playoff game. Let him get us there next year, and he can throw ten picks in the game and I won't give him a tough time over it.
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In comment 15125049 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Jackson faces and will continue to face is that in the playoffs, the good teams can make you one-dimensional. They can force you to have to pass. We've seen it all 3 of his losses.
They way to overcome that is to get better as a passer so making you one-dimensional isn't possible. I don't think he can do that. He doesn't have the mechanics, the footwork or the vision. Being only 24 may not matter in those areas.
You might be right on that one. Maybe we’ve seen his ceiling. Regular season MVP but playoff chump. He could have changed some minds tonight, but didn’t.
No, it seems at least on BBI, he can’t change minds. Some people desperately don’t want their minds changed.
Next week when Josh Allen loses he will also suck. Anything that challenges the pre conceived notion will be rejected.
If the Bills lose by scoring 3 points and Allen throws a terrible pick, he'll get criticized. Just like he was criticized when he blew the end of the Texans game last year.
ANY QB will.
Look - replace the Ravens with the Giants tonight - what would BBI say about the QB play? They'd want Jones cut tommorrow and you damn well know it. Terps would be ranting and raving - not saying "oh, we lost to a great Buffalo team".
And that's the hypocrisy of the post - some people don't want their minds changed - you included.
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The things he needs to get better at aren’t solved with some elbow grease in the off-season. His issues are the same issues as when he came into the league.
This is the best possible scheme for him. He is who he is. Really he has no where to go but down as the injuries pile up and his legs become less of a factor.
I don't know what LJax does in the offseason, but there are some very good QB coaches out there - Jordan Palmer, for example - who could help.
I doubt Jordan Palmer takes him on, he has a reputation to protect. He’s a massive fix and at this point a lost cause.
I give Lamar credit though, these young athlete QBs are understanding it earlier. We are seeing more and more of these guys that can actually play QB at an NFL level. He went up Louisville and worked on being a actual QB. With his athletic ability he could of easily just ran the ball and won a fuckton of games like these guys used to. More anc more you are seeing these really athletic QBs try to be throw first.
The real question is, I’m not sure you can ever develop to get to that elite level making decisions and reading defenses that all the greats have that as soon as it gets hard you can take off a run. Obviously Lamar could do better with his mechanics and getting ball to sidelines, but it’s not all that.
For guys that consistently do it in the pocket under pressure. The problem is Lamar doesn’t get that experience because against all the mediocre and bad defenses he can rely on his legs to make plays for him when push comes to shove. Go up against disciplined defenses and we saw the results. The Bills D isn’t even good.
Not for ones that look to run first and don't have the mental capacity to learn and adjust. He is what he is, he will never be any better.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Hell, if Jones is the league MVP next year, the Giants win 10 games, a playoff game, and he shits the bed in the divisional round, I’d celebrate all offseason.
Hell, if Jones is the league MVP next year, the Giants win 10 games, a playoff game, and he shits the bed in the divisional round, I’d celebrate all offseason.
That's what's amazing to me. It's like the Giants have been good, and we've just been stuck in the Matrix or something. In the world I live in, they're 15-33 the last three seasons.
That's not worthy of criticism? If that isn't, what is?
The real question is, I’m not sure you can ever develop to get to that elite level making decisions and reading defenses that all the greats have that as soon as it gets hard you can take off a run. Obviously Lamar could do better with his mechanics and getting ball to sidelines, but it’s not all that.
He's got 68 career TD passes and only 18 INTs. That's a 3.8 ration, which is pretty damn good. And some pretty good decisions...
Was typing way too fast.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Jones turns 24 next year. If he won a playoff game, and then shit the bed in round 2, we’d all still be besides ourselves with joy. The idea of him winning even one playoff game next year is a glorious pipe dream at this point. Completely different expectations.
That's not worthy of criticism? If that isn't, what is?
It’s really weird. Personally, I’m stupid optimistic about the Giants. I can find positivity in almost anything.
If Jones won a playoff game, I’d be on here finding ways to prove his trajectory was Super Bowl bound.
But the Giants just keep freaking losing.
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It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Jones turns 24 next year. If he won a playoff game, and then shit the bed in round 2, we’d all still be besides ourselves with joy. The idea of him winning even one playoff game next year is a glorious pipe dream at this point. Completely different expectations.
Comparing the Giants and Ravens right now is apples to oranges. But FMIC is the ultimate Giants Shill so he’s taking this as a victory lap.
[quote] In comment 15125097 Jim from Katonah said:
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In comment 15125087 Go Terps said:
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It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Jones turns 24 next year. If he won a playoff game, and then shit the bed in round 2, we’d all still be besides ourselves with joy. The idea of him winning even one playoff game next year is a glorious pipe dream at this point. Completely different expectations.
Comparing the Giants and Ravens right now is apples to oranges. But FMIC is the ultimate Giants Shill so he’s taking this as a victory lap. [/quote
Lamar has proven he’s good enough to shepherd a team to 13-3, and good enough to win at least one playoff game. We haven’t sniffed .500 and I’m not even sure if Jones has ever beaten a .500 plus team (it was McCoy who won the Seattle game, our sad little high point the past 4 years). Maybe next year Jones can start to move to some sort of relevance where if he loses, opposing fans can call him a choker like Lamar. Fingers crossed.
Hell, they went undefeated one season and won it all. Only team to do so. But he meant this century. That post caught my eye too though.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
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It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
Has he really? Doesn't surprise me at all. Pathetic
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It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
So has everyone else, up to and including Accorsi, who said he played scared. That's not made up.
James Harrison intercepted Kurt Warner for 100 yards
And no, I don't think LJ is anywhere near the passer Kurt was at this point in his career, but that can change. Lamar is still only 24, he has the tools to develop into a better passer if he puts the work in and if the team gets better players around him.
Baltimore wouldn't be in the playoffs without him. He had to throw to Dez Bryant (who was running around with a fork in his back), working with a poor OL that can't pass block, and without any real threats at WR, and still carried the team on his back.
Oh, and I don't think it helps to "taylor" the offense around him, either...I think that has hurt his development as an NFL QB. I think you'd see a much more complete player if his head coach was Andy Reid, for example.
I mean, they won 20-17 and shut down Henry. Lamar is 1-3, and hasn't played well in any playoff game. He's one-dimensional, and yes, he has gaudy regular season numbers, mainly because he gets more than his fair share of wide open receivers, which, to be fair, is because of the immense respect he demands as a runner.
To me, this was never a Daniel Jones vs Lamar argument. Not sure what the relevance of Jones is. I wasn't a fan of the DJ pick at the time either. But the Lamar worship has gone on and on, including the narrative that Gettleman should've drafted him, and yet, I'll stand by my eval of him from back then. Tremendous athlete, bad QB. This will continue to happen with him year after year until he can't escape and rip off those 50 yard runs anymore, and then he'll be finished.
If you ask me, I thought their play calling was crap. They were moving the ball with ease on their first drive, and then just completely changed their plan.
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It is complete bullshit that I'd be killing Jones for losing here. These are big boy games with no bad teams.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
To be fair, you’ve knocked Collins for as long as I can remember for his performance in the Superbowl of all games, against one of the best defenses in nfl history.
You remember at the end of last year you called me out because I was critical of Daniel Jones's performance? You said I was more or less doing my contrarian schtick when most were feeling good about his rookie season. Remember that? How are you feeling now?
Fingers crossed that one day fans of other teams will give a shit enough about our guy that they’ll be this gleeful when he fails. Fingers crossed that some day soon that our guy will be in a position to be called a “pathetic choker” like Lamar. Teddy Roosevelt has the best quote on this, but too tired to type any more.
Oh boo hoo! Poor Lamar Jackson. Spare us your same old lecture on this guy. We are just coming off a stellar career of a 15 year starting QB who never missed a game and won us 2 Super Bowl titles along the way and guess what? He was pretty much taken for granted all 15 years. Eli could never measure in the eyes of many a Giant fan, I read it right here on this board his entire career. Eli also happens to be white so maybe you should stop insinuating foul play as well.
It boils down to the fact that Lamar Jackson gets his ass kissed by many of the same people here who refuse to acknowledge even an ounce of anything positive related to Jones or the franchise overall. Of course people will snicker when he sucks in the playoffs. Many quarterbacks have had to answer for a drop off in their postseason play. He’s not the first. Won’t be the last.
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team. Buffalo is good, and they played their asses off tonight. There's no shame in losing this game.
We are also talking about a game that if we played similarly, the QB would be getting ripped up and down.
There would most certainly be shame to score 3 points in a playoff loss with a chance to tie the game and end up with a pick 6.
You'd be leading the charge!
May I add, Josh Allen and his approx. 5.5 YPA? Oh and he fumbled. The kid had arguably an MVP year and certainly appears to be the goods, but on here? A one-legged DJ, who had been making a lot of progress with Garrett for 3 1/2 errorless, moving the chains (with Arm AND legs) games, then had his ups and downs post-injury, would have been killed on here..
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In comment 15125069 Jim from Katonah said:
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In comment 15125049 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Jackson faces and will continue to face is that in the playoffs, the good teams can make you one-dimensional. They can force you to have to pass. We've seen it all 3 of his losses.
They way to overcome that is to get better as a passer so making you one-dimensional isn't possible. I don't think he can do that. He doesn't have the mechanics, the footwork or the vision. Being only 24 may not matter in those areas.
You might be right on that one. Maybe we’ve seen his ceiling. Regular season MVP but playoff chump. He could have changed some minds tonight, but didn’t.
No, it seems at least on BBI, he can’t change minds. Some people desperately don’t want their minds changed.
Next week when Josh Allen loses he will also suck. Anything that challenges the pre conceived notion will be rejected.
If the Bills lose by scoring 3 points and Allen throws a terrible pick, he'll get criticized. Just like he was criticized when he blew the end of the Texans game last year.
ANY QB will.
Look - replace the Ravens with the Giants tonight - what would BBI say about the QB play? They'd want Jones cut tommorrow and you damn well know it. Terps would be ranting and raving - not saying "oh, we lost to a great Buffalo team".
And that's the hypocrisy of the post - some people don't want their minds changed - you included.
Had Jones won the MVP this year and played like this in a playoff game, there would be no massive call to cut him tomorrow. That is ridiculously naive and biased.
And what opinion is it am I staunchly defending? Jackson is a good QB? That is an opinion shared by most everyone who watches NFL football.
If you ask me, I thought their play calling was crap. They were moving the ball with ease on their first drive, and then just completely changed their plan.
Thank you for this, pretty simple. The Lamar hot takes also ignore that Dobbins dropped a couple of key balls, the OL had one of their worst games and the wind neutralized their 2nd biggest weapon - the kicker. But just like Eli, until Lamar carries a team to the Championship game / Super Bowl, he is garbage.
Not sure how a 5.5 ypa can be considered a “good game.” A managed game? Sure. DJ “managed” some pretty nice games pre-injury..I think too many people are already dug in about DJ (not necessarily you). I’ll wait for SB to return (assuming he’s good to go as I expect him to be) as a big aid to DJ.
A thread on here talks about how Garrett has been assessed depending on the AVAILABLE talent he has at his disposal. Should JG return, I look forward to all the options he’ll hopefully have available with a healthy SB and an improved receiving corps.
If DJ shows no progress, I’ll be one of the first to negatively assess his play. I am not dug in. Just trying to be fair.
Will be interesting to see if Jackson's representatives push for a contract and if the Ravens commit long term. If they feel Jackson can develop still as a pocket passer then they probably need to give him more help. As others stated, winning a championship requires teams to be balanced and be able to do things that are outside their strengths.
I don’t think Allen’s performance was in the same stratosphere as Eli’s but i’d say that we need to use our eyes in attention to the stats. The Bills OL was breaking down under a very intense Ravens pass rush, yet Allen was constantly preventing that from turning into negative yardage, and meanwhile completed about 66% of his passes, a good ratio, with no INTs. He was also using that cannon of an arm to force the Ravens to defend the whole field.
I wouldn’t call what he did being a game manager. It was more like playing winning football in a tough playoff context.
I knock Jones and the Giants because they've shown themselves to be a million miles from the standard we see in the playoffs.
How about we let the Giants get there instead of giving them respect they haven't earned? In case you haven't noticed they are one of the worst teams in the league over the last three seasons.
Ummm yes u would.
I don’t think Allen’s performance was in the same stratosphere as Eli’s but i’d say that we need to use our eyes in attention to the stats. The Bills OL was breaking down under a very intense Ravens pass rush, yet Allen was constantly preventing that from turning into negative yardage, and meanwhile completed about 66% of his passes, a good ratio, with no INTs. He was also using that cannon of an arm to force the Ravens to defend the whole field.
I wouldn’t call what he did being a game manager. It was more like playing winning football in a tough playoff context.
That’s EXACTLY how I try to look at games..I simply noted the “5.5” and the “game manager” points as examples of what flucking goes on here. I only care about how the QB runs his team, regardless of stats or cliches. Yes, Eli is the perfect example. DJ has begun to learn how to win after the 0-5/1-7 starts, but needs better complements. He needs to continue to show improvement. Mistakes are going to happen no matter how much he hopefully improves..
Bottom line? DJ was moving this team when he had his legs. He was moving the chains and I’m not going to cite Engrams multiple TD drops to prop up DJ. That shit happens to all. But pre-injury he was doing a good job, but his lack of stats were constantly cited here, regardless of talent around him, health and so on..
So, all I, as a fan care about, is can this guy take charge of this team to help them ascend? Can he move the chains..I believe he can and has shown that. can he be more consistent moving forward with better personnel to work with? He better, or else he’s not our answer long term.
You’d still be pissing and moaning every step of the way. It’s in your nature. I’ve seen the Giants win 4 Super Bowls and even in those seasons the whining never stopped from this miserable fan base. There’s a large portion of Giants fans that absolutely deserve to be going through this extended drought. And you’re on top of the list. You don’t deserve a championship.
You hate everybody on here and my guess is everybody who isn't even on here too.
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Oh how I wish we could be so critical of our guys reaching these heights.
You’d still be pissing and moaning every step of the way. It’s in your nature. I’ve seen the Giants win 4 Super Bowls and even in those seasons the whining never stopped from this miserable fan base. There’s a large portion of Giants fans that absolutely deserve to be going through this extended drought. And you’re on top of the list. You don’t deserve a championship.
And you do?
If you polled a bunch of Giants and Eagles fans I’d be willing to bet Foles is more beloved by Eagles fans than Ei is here.
Good discussion. The AFC Championship will be a humdinger. Peace out.
If you polled a bunch of Giants and Eagles fans I’d be willing to bet Foles is more beloved by Eagles fans than Ei is here.
Every fan base has a similar faction. It's like you guys think all sports fans go singing and riding around on the good ship Lollipop all day.
And the comment on Eli is out of bounds wrong.
Good discussion. The AFC Championship will be a humdinger. Peace out.
Back atcha my friend.
Mental attributes and intangibles continue to be the most important traits for a QB.
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In comment 15125057 Go Terps said:
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team. Buffalo is good, and they played their asses off tonight. There's no shame in losing this game.
We are also talking about a game that if we played similarly, the QB would be getting ripped up and down.
There would most certainly be shame to score 3 points in a playoff loss with a chance to tie the game and end up with a pick 6.
You'd be leading the charge!
May I add, Josh Allen and his approx. 5.5 YPA? Oh and he fumbled. The kid had arguably an MVP year and certainly appears to be the goods, but on here? A one-legged DJ, who had been making a lot of progress with Garrett for 3 1/2 errorless, moving the chains (with Arm AND legs) games, then had his ups and downs post-injury, would have been killed on here..
Out of curiosity, did you watch the game?
Did you see Buffalo’s very strange game plan in the first half where they ran just 2X? The fewest rushing attempts ever in a playoff game for a half. Daboll seemed to be unaware of the wind conditions and cold. And still had Allen cutting it loose and throwing deep way too many times.
Allen’s second half was much better than his first, btw.
It’s funny, too, how Allen has one off game, in a season of very few, and you bring up Jones who had very few good games the entire season...
There's no doubt in my mind that any giants QB would get ripped for the same performance that happened last night.
Just look at what Terps said above. He stands by the idea Collins played scared in the SB and ripped him continually after that game, nevermind that he was playing against a historic defense.
When Jackson shit the bed, it is due to a tip of the cap to Buffalo and kudos for making it that far.
It is almost a long troll job at this point.
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
That was a bad pick 6 and any QB in the league, including New York Giant QBs, should take some criticism for throwing it.
And, Kerry Collins absolutely played like a deer in headlights versus Ravens. And its not an excuse it was against a historic defense. He could have and needed to play better.
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
This 💯
That was a bad pick 6 and any QB in the league, including New York Giant QBs, should take some criticism for throwing it.
And, Kerry Collins absolutely played like a deer in headlights versus Ravens. And its not an excuse it was against a historic defense. He could have and needed to play better.
He does not have the arm talent. He doesn't. I know he's young, but that's not likely fixable. I'm telling you, when his mobility is degraded to the level of someone like, say, a Ryan Tannehill (who is pretty mobile), the wheels are going to completely fall off. It's going to get ugly.
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
Where are the excuses exactly? LJax made a major mistake that basically killed the game. That play had nothing to do with arm talent - which you recently cite - but a poor decision where he didn't see the safety.
A lot of QBs have made the mistake - average ones, good ones, great ones.
It gets highlighted because of LJax's post-season struggles. Not saying this isn't fair, but his regular season passing numbers, despite his unorthodox style, are absolutely nothing to sneeze at...
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For why Lamar couldn't get it done again.
He's not a championship QB. Rodgers lost his LT also. He got it done.
Lamar laid a fat egg and threw a pick 6 in the red zone. An INT where he didn't see the defender. His kicker missed a FG or two. So what. You don't play for field goals. They lose the game making those FGs too.
Lamar is a great runner. Electric. He is not a good QB. I look forward to re-hashing this argument again next season. But I don't get the fascination with regular season accomplishments and stats and awards when your QB doesn't give you a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't.
Where are the excuses exactly? LJax made a major mistake that basically killed the game. That play had nothing to do with arm talent - which you recently cite - but a poor decision where he didn't see the safety.
A lot of QBs have made the mistake - average ones, good ones, great ones.
It gets highlighted because of LJax's post-season struggles. Not saying this isn't fair, but his regular season passing numbers, despite his unorthodox style, are absolutely nothing to sneeze at...
I'm sorry, did I say that the INT was due to arm talent? No, no I did not. I said he's not going to get significantly better because of arm talent.
Him not seeing the defender IS a mistake that a lot of QBs make, yes. Him not getting his team a TD in 3 quarters, though...that doesn't happen with most championship caliber QBs. I do question whether or not he is a great decision maker as a passer, but that's very hard to evaluate because he's not a guy that is going to go through his progressions often. And his passing numbers are a function of his ability to hurt a team running with the football. It is not a function of his arm talent. That's why I said when his running ability is degraded, he won't be successful, and that's when you will see the passing numbers fall off a cliff, when defenses can play more traditional coverage packages.