Comprehensive 2,100+ word analysis from our friend Colin Lindsay, including special attention to Kyle Pitts and a comparison between Alabama CB Patrick Surtain vs. Virginia Tech CB Caleb Farley. And that's not all... there's a lot to digest here.
Given that we may see a run on QBs early on, Colin believes the Giants may snag one of the blue-chip non-QBs, but that will not be either DaVonta Smith nor Ja'Marr Chase.
My personal observation after reading through this -- unless there is some minor miracle, we would be setting ourselves up for disappointment in thinking the 2021 Draft will put the final pieces in place to field a legitimate play-off team. Looks to me like we need two more Drafts and two years of free agency in which the Giants make very wise choices in who they sign; re-sign; and let go to another team.
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I am dreaming Parsons drops. This position in the draft is close to where they drafted a toolsy raw Edge - JPP. My $ is on that or CB (only if Surtain is there - which I don't think he will be).
After that offense!
The teams that cap strapped will be forced to backload contracts. Some teams like the Giants have contracts like Martinez Bradberry that can be extended and bonus money given to the players. This will be managements decision and with no fans in the stands ownership may not want to do that. The jags with cap space and a rich owner will be able to come out sign a lot of talent. This will the most interesting off season ever. Nobody knows how this is going to work out in the end
I think they should keep Leo and Dalvin. If they have to cut other Veterans to make it happen like Tate, Solder, Zeitler I think they have to do that. Those 3 aren't getting any younger and Leo and Dalvin are in prime time of there career.
I think they should keep Leo and Dalvin. If they have to cut other Veterans to make it happen like Tate, Solder, Zeitler I think they have to do that. Those 3 aren't getting any younger and Leo and Dalvin are in prime time of there career.
You don't think the D needs more pass rush? I think an EDGE and CB are at least still needed. Not far away if they stay healthy and keep at least one of Williams or Tomlinson.
I see another press man corner....as the solution to alot of what Graham/NE liked to do.....
If drafting a TE high...they better block....as the running game will be a major part of the Giants. I like the Penn St. Kid in 2nd Rd.
Curtis Samuel and cluster draft WRs...
Solidify RT
If Giants go for Pitts. And pass on Parsons if he was there. No big deal
I would trade up to get Zaven Collins. OLB Tulsa. He will probably be better than Parsons
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Because you could argue with one more top CB - the defense is basically a finished product. And you could really devote resources to Offense, that is if you can resign who you have.
I think they should keep Leo and Dalvin. If they have to cut other Veterans to make it happen like Tate, Solder, Zeitler I think they have to do that. Those 3 aren't getting any younger and Leo and Dalvin are in prime time of there career.
You don't think the D needs more pass rush? I think an EDGE and CB are at least still needed. Not far away if they stay healthy and keep at least one of Williams or Tomlinson.
The Giants finished tied for 12th with 40 sacks(Indy). Yes they could use more pass rush, but a VG #2 CB will cause more coverage sacks. I think it is more likely they find a VG CB in the draft vs an ER/OLB that will ring up a pile of sacks.
I see another press man corner....as the solution to alot of what Graham/NE liked to do.....
If drafting a TE high...they better block....as the running game will be a major part of the Giants. I like the Penn St. Kid in 2nd Rd.
Curtis Samuel and cluster draft WRs...
Which is why you go to YouTube and find full game clips of prospects. That’s how you gauge their abilities.
Solidify RT
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Because you could argue with one more top CB - the defense is basically a finished product. And you could really devote resources to Offense, that is if you can resign who you have.
I think they should keep Leo and Dalvin. If they have to cut other Veterans to make it happen like Tate, Solder, Zeitler I think they have to do that. Those 3 aren't getting any younger and Leo and Dalvin are in prime time of there career.
You don't think the D needs more pass rush? I think an EDGE and CB are at least still needed. Not far away if they stay healthy and keep at least one of Williams or Tomlinson.
On one hand I really want more weapons on O and would love to see Pitts going down the seam and in the red zone but I’d also love to see Graham’s D with a solid #2. and all the things that would allow them to do.
I think it’s a win/win if those guys are there and am going to leave it up to the guys who get paid to make these decisions.
Gun to my head though I love watching and rooting for a great D and adding a really good 2nd corner would make ours a lot of fun to watch. Plus I think we could get some O help in the 2nd rd. Of course this all depends on what happens in FA, but it’s fun to look ahead to adding a top rookie player.
I think there’s a legit shot at three going top 10, as lots of places have the BYU QB up there pretty high. Four, I doubt though. Fingers crossed someone does grab the 4th one as that’ll be good for us.
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In comment 15125153 DavidinBMNY said:
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Because you could argue with one more top CB - the defense is basically a finished product. And you could really devote resources to Offense, that is if you can resign who you have.
I think they should keep Leo and Dalvin. If they have to cut other Veterans to make it happen like Tate, Solder, Zeitler I think they have to do that. Those 3 aren't getting any younger and Leo and Dalvin are in prime time of there career.
You don't think the D needs more pass rush? I think an EDGE and CB are at least still needed. Not far away if they stay healthy and keep at least one of Williams or Tomlinson.
The Giants finished tied for 12th with 40 sacks(Indy). Yes they could use more pass rush, but a VG #2 CB will cause more coverage sacks. I think it is more likely they find a VG CB in the draft vs an ER/OLB that will ring up a pile of sacks.
Relying on coverage sacks is inordinately risky. Colts defense got tore up in second half of games because they couldn’t get one on one rushes and speed off edge. You need some game breaking pass rush with disruptive guys on the line or off edge and can’t rely on press and disguised blitzing to hold up an entire game. Good QBs and OCs will be able to adjust and scheme ways to attack the secondary if you have to blitz and can’t get one on one pressure. Really good defenses tend to have at least two guys on D that take a chess piece in protection away that OCs can use and limit their options in opening up the passing attack.
Even if not, it’s a deep WR draft, we can pick one up later. As far as the playoffs next year, it is going to hinge on Jones tak8ng a step forward. If he plays well, there is no reason this can’t be a 9 or 10 win team.
Is this the year that DG finally trades down for additional picks?? Ya never know with 100 days to go before the draft.
I have high hopes this year that Judge/DG duo hit a home run on our draft selections.
I am really high on Surtain but don't know if he gets past the Cowboys. Don't know much at all about Farley. Been preaching for awhile that we cluster draft the WR position in rounds 2 and 3.Love Marshall and Williams at WR. Also like Tylan Wallace a bunch from Oklahoma St.
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In comment 15125155 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 15125153 DavidinBMNY said:
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Because you could argue with one more top CB - the defense is basically a finished product. And you could really devote resources to Offense, that is if you can resign who you have.
I think they should keep Leo and Dalvin. If they have to cut other Veterans to make it happen like Tate, Solder, Zeitler I think they have to do that. Those 3 aren't getting any younger and Leo and Dalvin are in prime time of there career.
You don't think the D needs more pass rush? I think an EDGE and CB are at least still needed. Not far away if they stay healthy and keep at least one of Williams or Tomlinson.
The Giants finished tied for 12th with 40 sacks(Indy). Yes they could use more pass rush, but a VG #2 CB will cause more coverage sacks. I think it is more likely they find a VG CB in the draft vs an ER/OLB that will ring up a pile of sacks.
Relying on coverage sacks is inordinately risky. Colts defense got tore up in second half of games because they couldn’t get one on one rushes and speed off edge. You need some game breaking pass rush with disruptive guys on the line or off edge and can’t rely on press and disguised blitzing to hold up an entire game. Good QBs and OCs will be able to adjust and scheme ways to attack the secondary if you have to blitz and can’t get one on one pressure. Really good defenses tend to have at least two guys on D that take a chess piece in protection away that OCs can use and limit their options in opening up the passing attack.
I’m not claiming to be an expert but I don’t see that top level game breaking pass rush ability guy there for the Giants. Sure, I’d love to have that guy but I’m not gambling on one when a top CB is likely there and can help the D.
Adding a top CB would allow the Giants to bring pressure from other spots as Colin mentioned, and they can supplement their rush that way. Plus it makes it way more of an unpredictable D if you don’t know where the rush is coming from. Two shutdown corners makes even a really good D so much better.
It’s be one thing if that edge guy was there, but without it, you have to get pressure someplace else. Two shutdown corners helps the DL by giving them a little more time to get home. While I’m not counting on Carter or X to be the dominating edge rush guy, it’s entirely possible they’d come through with a little more time they’d get from help on the back end.
If one assumes that Lawrence, Fields, and Wilson are locks to go somewhere in the top ten, that leaves Jones, Lance, and Trask as legit candidates for some team to love enough to trade up for. The difference between the 5th year option on a QB drafted in the top ten versus eleven and later is significant.
In short, drafting in the 11-spot gives the Giants two chances at having a killer draft. On the one hand, it's entirely possible that a blue chip player (someone in the top five on their board) falls to them; and if not that, it's also entirely possible that they are in position to add a second or third round pick for the small price of trading down a few spots (and still landing a player they would've been happy to take with the 11th pick).
If neither of those two things happen, I still expect there will be a quality prospect to be had that helps fill a need.
The Giants finished tied for 12th with 40 sacks(Indy). Yes they could use more pass rush, but a VG #2 CB will cause more coverage sacks. I think it is more likely they find a VG CB in the draft vs an ER/OLB that will ring up a pile of sacks.
Relying on coverage sacks is inordinately risky. Colts defense got tore up in second half of games because they couldn’t get one on one rushes and speed off edge. You need some game breaking pass rush with disruptive guys on the line or off edge and can’t rely on press and disguised blitzing to hold up an entire game. Good QBs and OCs will be able to adjust and scheme ways to attack the secondary if you have to blitz and can’t get one on one pressure. Really good defenses tend to have at least two guys on D that take a chess piece in protection away that OCs can use and limit their options in opening up the passing attack.
Tough decision, but when you take a way receivers the QB is in deep shit.
Yes a better ER/OLB would force faster decisions by the QB and lead to more mistakes.
six of one / half dozen of another.
It all comes down to each team's evaluation of the six QBs who might be worthy of a top ten pick. I think Mac Jones is a guy that could make one team's top ten while not making another team's top 100.
I think he's underestimatin the way DG, JJ and PG would view Parsons if he's available at 11. However, IMO in all likelihood Parsons is a top 10 pick and won't be there.
Point 2 is the seeming surety that both Ja'mar Chase and DeVonta Smith will be gone before 11. Not sure I see that AT ALL, for 2 reasons: 1) because the relatve depth of quality at WR may push all of them down the board a few notches, and 2) not sure any physical aspects of Chase or Smith will stand out.
Pitts may go earlier than 11 too, for exactly the opposite reason - he such a rare physical specimen vis a vis his length and athleticism combo. He's the truest unicorn in this draft IMO.
He says that Pitts is a unique playmaker and to take him means “you actually have to run a unique offense”. And just what would that be. We’ve had three coaching staffs fail to do that.with Engram who is a similar unique player and who seems to demand something other than what we’ve see so far. Just don’t have much belief that unique offense really exists or that it makes sense to run you entire offense around one guy.
If the guy is a TE, I want to know if he can block and is a dominant physical presence as a receiver.
I think the Jints will find the $ to pay Allan Robinson to become their #1 wr and that will buy them some time to work in whomever wr they draft with their third pick.
You simply must draft into the strength of the draft and yes you must address needs as best you can.
I wholeheartedly endorse selecting Surtain or Farley with their first pick as those two are clearly the cream of this year's draft at corner.
You are only wasting the money you paid Bradberry if you don't find a quality corner to man the boundary across from him as opposing Offenses will continue to exploit this weakness.
I hold out hope that edge rusher Jaelen Smith will be there when we are on the clock for our second draft selection. I think he is better than Rousseau.
There is a passel of wr's that will be available when we select our third pick. I want someone who is big and strong and fast and willing to block and is a fast learner.
Should we acquire Robinson via FA then we could put out Robinson - Shephard - Slayton with Pettis and our draft pick rounding out our wr corps. This would be a distinct improvement imo
The other dream scenario that will never come true is that OL-Penei Sewell out of Utah is somehow available. I am hoping that we might even trade up for him should he last past pick #5. Maybe someone might post a video of him heating up a glass pipe with a blow torch to smoke a dab or freezing a line a line of cocaine out of a strippers buttcrack with a snorkel. All I know is they don't make them like this guy. He could play anywhere on any line at any position he wants or is needed. He is so athletic that he just doesn't look as big as he is when you see how he moves. I see him as a generational talent.
That said I would like to cluster draft at the tight end position. It's a very important position in a run based offense. Our first round pick would be TE/WR-Kyle Pitts our of Florida. Pitts is a dominant receiver who is like a cross between the black unicorn and Plaxico Burress. He is not someone you want blocking at the point of attack but he can handle backside duties and cutback type blocks. His strength is striking fear into a defense as a receiving threat who is a mismatch for anyone who tries to cover him one on one. Unlike Evan Engram this guy knows how to use his size; he can run routes and post up. He could be used outside, in the slot, or on the backside as a move TE. He is a receiving weapon and a nightmare in the red zone.
No matter who our first round pick is I want Penn State TE-Pat Freiermuth in the 2nd round. They call him "Baby Gronk" for good reason. He is a true 2-way TE who can handle blocking OLBs & most DE's at the point of attack in the run game while having the athleticism & savvy to be a sneaky threat as a pass catcher. His role would be totally different from Pitts and both would likely start from day one. We would let Evan Engram walk and Kaden Smith would become a backup again.
If we took this theme further we would also go after Boston College TE-Hunter Long in the 3rd round. This would be even more important if we don't draft both Pitts and Freiermuth. I want to end up with all three players because I like cluster drafting like George Young used to do. Gettleman did this with CBs in 2019 and with OT in 2020.
I think that these TEs would make great big targets for Daniel Jones and get our running game to the next level. A run first/play action/QB under center offense needs some good TEs. If we went after a FA like TE-Hunter Henry then it alleviates the need in the draft. All I know is I remember what guys like Mark Bavaro and Howard Cross meant to our running game and I been shaking my head for years watching our TEs get blown up at the point of attack. We cannot win the line of scrimmage on offense without better blocking from the TEs.
I want to sign Galloday or Robinson plus Curtis Samuel. CS was a 2nd round pick by Gettleman in Carolina and the guy is very versatile. He is very fast and he can be used in a number of ways. We could also draft a couple of receivers somewhere in this draft as it is such a strong WR draft.
I like a good fullback too and if FB-Ben Mason out of Michigan is available I'd consider him on day three. If RB-Najee Harris out of Alabama is available in the 3rd or 4th round he would be a great young runner to add to our stable; our RB coach, Burton Burns coached him up until 2020 and at 6'-2" 230 he can be a versatile threat out of the backfield.
I don't want Rousseau at #11. He has one year of real production, skipped this last season, has limited pass rush moves, and is a converted WR.
He says that Pitts is a unique playmaker and to take him means “you actually have to run a unique offense”. And just what would that be. We’ve had three coaching staffs fail to do that.with Engram who is a similar unique player and who seems to demand something other than what we’ve see so far. Just don’t have much belief that unique offense really exists or that it makes sense to run you entire offense around one guy.
While the writeup sounds familiar, Evan has not proven to be a matchup nightmare. While Pitts is not a 4.3/4 burner, his route running seems to be much better than Evan at this point. I see a more explosive Jordan Reed in Pitts. Additionally, the 2-3 inches Pitts has over Evan is noteworthy.
I was at first against spending a premium pick on another playmaking TE, but Evan hasn’t been that guy. With possibly no #1 WR available at 11, I’d good with Pitts if we go offense with that pick.
He says that Pitts is a unique playmaker and to take him means “you actually have to run a unique offense”. And just what would that be. We’ve had three coaching staffs fail to do that.with Engram who is a similar unique player and who seems to demand something other than what we’ve see so far. Just don’t have much belief that unique offense really exists or that it makes sense to run you entire offense around one guy.
i hear this crap all the time. darren waller isn't an all star blocker. jimmy graham never was. you can be a tremendous player and not be an all-pro blocker.
and then people want to compare him to our current pro bowl TE evan engram? this guy is actually someone who catches the fucking ball, is savvy in getting open, makes contested catches, and plays to his size and speed. none of which engram does.
Just a quick clarification. I maybe misspoke a tad in saying that 'If you are selecting a guy like Pitts you are not drafting a TE.' What I really meant to say was that if you are selecting a guy like Pitts (at #11) its not because you necessarily want to draft a TE!' but because he's a talented player with big-play ability who is likely going to be the clear BPA at that point.
I also really didn't mean you have to run a 'unique' offense with unique talents like Saquon and Pitts, but you probably do if you want to truly maximize that uniqueness. And there ain't a whole lot of rocket science in football. By unique all one really means is that when the other team puts out a run defense you pass and you run when they're playing the pass. What I think I saw from the Giants the last 2-3 years was a lot of run-first football 101 stuff. Garrett, for example, lost me earlier this year when he was quoted saying something along the lines that he didn't see why Engram couldn't develop into a solid two-way TE. I'm personally from the school of if you get a kid like Pitts and he can't block DON'T ASK HIM TO EFFING BLOCK. I'm also with GF 84 in thinking that 9if healthy) doesn't need blocking; he needs a little space. Spread the field and don't let the other team bring 9-10 guys into the box. But I digress!
One other point I didn't actually include in the article per se. Talking to people around the league it appears that there are two tiers possibly emerging among 6-7 blue chip non-QB prospects in this year's draft with Sewell and the two WRs in the first group and the other 3-4 guys in the second. And in a sense the whole point of the article was to say that picking 11th the Giants first goal is most likely to get one of elite players - each and everyone of whom would fill a need of some kind - and right now, based on the latest info we have, the two most likely to be available are Pitts and Rousseau. Again that's right now and its certainly possible that other guys like Farley and Waddle could move up into that elite group thereby increasing the Giants' options and we'll revise our thinking if and when that happens.
In the meantime hope everyone enjoys the next 101 days!
Even if not, it’s a deep WR draft, we can pick one up later. As far as the playoffs next year, it is going to hinge on Jones tak8ng a step forward. If he plays well, there is no reason this can’t be a 9 or 10 win team.
Lawrence
Fields
Wilson
Sewell
Chase
Smith
Parsons
Surtain
ZERO chance either of top 2 wrs fall to 11.
We are looking at pitts, waddle, farley
Even if that were the case he doesn’t fit what we are trying to build at all. He needs to go somewhere where he can play man most the time.
I’m really on board with Surtain if he’s there because our defense will be able to do so many damn things with him and Bradberry out there. Unless some freak like Parsons is there, it would clear cut be most impactful add on defense.
Even if that were the case he doesn’t fit what we are trying to build at all. He needs to go somewhere where he can play man most the time.
I’m really on board with Surtain if he’s there because our defense will be able to do so many damn things with him and Bradberry out there. Unless some freak like Parsons is there, it would clear cut be most impactful add on defense.
Inexpect us to play a lot of man next year....
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He has potential to be elite sure, but he has a ton of technique issues to clean up. Reminds me of a better version of greedy Williams.
Even if that were the case he doesn’t fit what we are trying to build at all. He needs to go somewhere where he can play man most the time.
I’m really on board with Surtain if he’s there because our defense will be able to do so many damn things with him and Bradberry out there. Unless some freak like Parsons is there, it would clear cut be most impactful add on defense.
Inexpect us to play a lot of man next year....
We certainly would play more man, but we’d be balanced. That is what the Pats do and clearly what Judge wants to accomplish. Taking a player like Farley flies in the face of being multiple.
Just a quick clarification. I maybe misspoke a tad in saying that 'If you are selecting a guy like Pitts you are not drafting a TE.' What I really meant to say was that if you are selecting a guy like Pitts (at #11) its not because you necessarily want to draft a TE!' but because he's a talented player with big-play ability who is likely going to be the clear BPA at that point.
I also really didn't mean you have to run a 'unique' offense with unique talents like Saquon and Pitts, but you probably do if you want to truly maximize that uniqueness. And there ain't a whole lot of rocket science in football. By unique all one really means is that when the other team puts out a run defense you pass and you run when they're playing the pass. What I think I saw from the Giants the last 2-3 years was a lot of run-first football 101 stuff. Garrett, for example, lost me earlier this year when he was quoted saying something along the lines that he didn't see why Engram couldn't develop into a solid two-way TE. I'm personally from the school of if you get a kid like Pitts and he can't block DON'T ASK HIM TO EFFING BLOCK. I'm also with GF 84 in thinking that 9if healthy) doesn't need blocking; he needs a little space. Spread the field and don't let the other team bring 9-10 guys into the box. But I digress!
One other point I didn't actually include in the article per se. Talking to people around the league it appears that there are two tiers possibly emerging among 6-7 blue chip non-QB prospects in this year's draft with Sewell and the two WRs in the first group and the other 3-4 guys in the second. And in a sense the whole point of the article was to say that picking 11th the Giants first goal is most likely to get one of elite players - each and everyone of whom would fill a need of some kind - and right now, based on the latest info we have, the two most likely to be available are Pitts and Rousseau. Again that's right now and its certainly possible that other guys like Farley and Waddle could move up into that elite group thereby increasing the Giants' options and we'll revise our thinking if and when that happens.
In the meantime hope everyone enjoys the next 101 days!
Thanks Colin.
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that both Smith and Chase will be off the board by 11. We’re likely to see 3 if not 4 QB’s go top 10, and then you’ve got guys like Sewell and Surtain. I think there’s a reasonable chance that one of the WR’s is still there at 11.
Even if not, it’s a deep WR draft, we can pick one up later. As far as the playoffs next year, it is going to hinge on Jones tak8ng a step forward. If he plays well, there is no reason this can’t be a 9 or 10 win team.
Lawrence
Fields
Wilson
Sewell
Chase
Smith
Parsons
Surtain
ZERO chance either of top 2 wrs fall to 11.
We are looking at pitts, waddle, farley
Those guys are who I see going top eight as well.
I’m hoping someone off the radar jumps up, plus maybe another QB, or someone thinks highly of Rousseau who I think is too much of a risk to take based off one year. Then we might have our pick of 5-6 top guys.
If it plays out like you have it though, I’d be happy with any one of those three but I’d love to see Waddle and Saquon on the field together.
LB Micah Parsons, Penn State - a prefect chess piece for Graham
WRs DeVonta Smith, Jamar Chase, Jaylen Waddle (does it matter which one of them? Wait for the combine to find out!)
"TE" Kyle Pitts (maybe my favorite of all 7, a TRUE red zone nightmare for defenses)
CBs Surtain or Farley - both potential lock down CB bookends opposite of Bradberry
Done, those are my Magnificent Seven for the 2021 Giants. Pretty good agreement with Colin's top 7 for he Gmen at this time.
Just a quick clarification. I maybe misspoke a tad in saying that 'If you are selecting a guy like Pitts you are not drafting a TE.' What I really meant to say was that if you are selecting a guy like Pitts (at #11) its not because you necessarily want to draft a TE!' but because he's a talented player with big-play ability who is likely going to be the clear BPA at that point.
I also really didn't mean you have to run a 'unique' offense with unique talents like Saquon and Pitts, but you probably do if you want to truly maximize that uniqueness. And there ain't a whole lot of rocket science in football. By unique all one really means is that when the other team puts out a run defense you pass and you run when they're playing the pass. What I think I saw from the Giants the last 2-3 years was a lot of run-first football 101 stuff. Garrett, for example, lost me earlier this year when he was quoted saying something along the lines that he didn't see why Engram couldn't develop into a solid two-way TE. I'm personally from the school of if you get a kid like Pitts and he can't block DON'T ASK HIM TO EFFING BLOCK. I'm also with GF 84 in thinking that 9if healthy) doesn't need blocking; he needs a little space. Spread the field and don't let the other team bring 9-10 guys into the box. But I digress!
One other point I didn't actually include in the article per se. Talking to people around the league it appears that there are two tiers possibly emerging among 6-7 blue chip non-QB prospects in this year's draft with Sewell and the two WRs in the first group and the other 3-4 guys in the second. And in a sense the whole point of the article was to say that picking 11th the Giants first goal is most likely to get one of elite players - each and everyone of whom would fill a need of some kind - and right now, based on the latest info we have, the two most likely to be available are Pitts and Rousseau. Again that's right now and its certainly possible that other guys like Farley and Waddle could move up into that elite group thereby increasing the Giants' options and we'll revise our thinking if and when that happens.
In the meantime hope everyone enjoys the next 101 days!
Thanks Colin. Some good thoughts in here. And agree that should be some kind of light blue chipper for Giants at 11. They could use almost anybody.