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Touch back on Fumble OoB in End Zone...

Capt. Don : 1/17/2021 4:40 pm
I'm sure its been discussed here before but can someone smarter than me explain why the offense doesn't just get the ball at the spot of the fumble? Why the change of possession.

Bill Cowher suggested that the offense get the ball back at the 20.

Change of possession seems extreme.
It may be a bad rule  
Saquads26 : 1/17/2021 4:42 pm : link
But until it's changed you're a moron to reach the ball out there knowing that .
Simple answer is  
section125 : 1/17/2021 4:42 pm : link
because that is the rule.

Why is a 5 yard holding penalty on a 3rd and 22 an automatic 1st down when the spot of the foul is no where near a 1st down? That is the stupidest rule in foot ball.
It's the rule and it rewards the defense  
JonC : 1/17/2021 4:44 pm : link
for forcing the fumble. WR has to protect the ball.
It's pretty..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/17/2021 4:44 pm : link
simple - if you extend the ball at the goalline, you have some risk. It should stay that way.
RE: It's the rule and it rewards the defense  
bw in dc : 1/17/2021 4:47 pm : link
In comment 15125877 JonC said:
Quote:
for forcing the fumble. WR has to protect the ball.


But the defense doesn't recover the ball for possession.

So why reward them for just causing a fumble and not getting the possession?

That makes the play incomplete...
RE: RE: It's the rule and it rewards the defense  
LBH15 : 1/17/2021 4:49 pm : link
In comment 15125883 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15125877 JonC said:


Quote:


for forcing the fumble. WR has to protect the ball.



But the defense doesn't recover the ball for possession.

So why reward them for just causing a fumble and not getting the possession?

That makes the play incomplete...


Well I guess Tie goes to the offense for 100 yards. Tie goes to the defense in the end zone.
it is a stupid rule but you just need to be careful  
markky : 1/17/2021 4:49 pm : link
in the red zone
I'm on team dumb rule  
bluepepper : 1/17/2021 4:52 pm : link
why give defense possession if they don't recover the ball? No other spot on the field does that happen. If you want to discourage stretches put it back to the 20 or place it back 10 yards or whatever but no change of possession.
......  
Route 9 : 1/17/2021 5:00 pm : link
The touchback change of possession doesn't bug me.

As if the game isn't tilted to benefit the offense enough? good God why even bother having a defense on the field anymore?
Not sure why the end zone  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/17/2021 5:02 pm : link
Should change the rule that applies everywhere else. If the ball had gone out at the 3 inch line, offense keeps it but if it goes out at 3 inches into end zone it’s a turnover. Makes no sense.
RE: It's pretty..  
Capt. Don : 1/17/2021 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15125879 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
simple - if you extend the ball at the goalline, you have some risk. It should stay that way.


If thats the case, why doesn't the defense get the ball if the offense extends for a first down?

If the only reason for the rule is to introduce a downside to extending then change of possession seems extreme.

If that is the goal of the rule, then just give it back to the offense at the 5 or 10.
Unnecessarily punitive  
GiantNatty : 1/17/2021 5:06 pm : link
.
I guess one coudl find similarity with a kickoff  
PaulBlakeTSU : 1/17/2021 5:20 pm : link
Once the ball is kicked off (and goes past 10 yards), it's a live ball Anyone can recover it. But if the ball goes out of the end zone, it's ruled a touchback.


My personal preference would make it such that the offense gets the ball on the 20.
The rule exists because you’ll just have ridiculous ball security  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/17/2021 5:39 pm : link
things around the goal line if it wasn’t there. I like the fact the offense has to earn their way into end zone.
RE: I'm on team dumb rule  
k2tampa : 1/17/2021 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15125899 bluepepper said:
Quote:
why give defense possession if they don't recover the ball? No other spot on the field does that happen. If you want to discourage stretches put it back to the 20 or place it back 10 yards or whatever but no change of possession.

No different than rewarding the defense with a safety when they cause a fumble that goes out of the offense’s team’s endzone. The defense didn’t recover it.
RE: The rule exists because you’ll just have ridiculous ball security  
Capt. Don : 1/17/2021 5:44 pm : link
In comment 15126065 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
things around the goal line if it wasn’t there. I like the fact the offense has to earn their way into end zone.


Earn their way in the EZ? No one is proposing giving the offense the TD, only that a change of possession is extreme.

Back the offense up to the 10 or 15.
Makes the game more interesting...  
chopperhatch : 1/17/2021 6:14 pm : link
I say keep it in.

Also no need for Higgins to reach there when 1st n 10 at the 1 or 2 would have been fine.
It's a rare  
darren in pdx : 1/17/2021 6:19 pm : link
occurrence and extremely difficult to do. The offense has been benefiting from rule changes and penalties that reward too many yards and first downs for the past couple of decades. I think it is fine to reward the defense in that situation and to punish the offense for a critical mistake.

Though I agree the best compromise if it were to change is the offense gets the ball back at the 20 yard line at the next down and goal-to-go, it definitely should not restart as a first-down.
RE: Simple answer is  
81_Great_Dane : 1/18/2021 12:00 am : link
In comment 15125874 section125 said:
Quote:
because that is the rule.

Why is a 5 yard holding penalty on a 3rd and 22 an automatic 1st down when the spot of the foul is no where near a 1st down? That is the stupidest rule in foot ball.
I think of it this way: The automatic first down is the main part of the penalty, with 5 yards tacked on.

There are a few automatic-first-down penalties that ding the defense. Very few loss-of-down penalties that ding the offense.

If it were just 5 yards and replay the down, then the D would be stupid NOT to hold on a 3rd and 22. You might get away with it and then you make the other side punt, and if you're flagged, you still have 3rd and 17. Where once again it would be stupid not to hold. You could hold 4 plays in a row and it would still be 3rd down.
RE: RE: It's the rule and it rewards the defense  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 1/18/2021 8:51 pm : link
In comment 15125883 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15125877 JonC said:


Quote:


for forcing the fumble. WR has to protect the ball.



But the defense doesn't recover the ball for possession.

So why reward them for just causing a fumble and not getting the possession?

That makes the play incomplete...


Here is an explanation: the end zone is the only territory that a team possesses. When an opposing team loses the ball in and through (or out the side of) your end zone, it becomes your ball. They lost it in your territory. It went through your territory and out of the field of play; so it becomes your ball.
RE: RE: RE: It's the rule and it rewards the defense  
bw in dc : 1/18/2021 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15127349 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 15125883 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15125877 JonC said:


Quote:


for forcing the fumble. WR has to protect the ball.



But the defense doesn't recover the ball for possession.

So why reward them for just causing a fumble and not getting the possession?

That makes the play incomplete...



Here is an explanation: the end zone is the only territory that a team possesses. When an opposing team loses the ball in and through (or out the side of) your end zone, it becomes your ball. They lost it in your territory. It went through your territory and out of the field of play; so it becomes your ball.


I get it. But it's a rule that should be revisited and reassessed.

To me, it's like the "tuck rule". Sure, it was something in the books, but you just knew something didn't make sense about it.

Yesterday, FMiC was pitching to me that the rule was okay because the offense has too many advantages. I agree the offense has too many advantages, but there are better rules to change than to leave this distorted rule in place.

This is what the rule should be...  
EricJ : 1/18/2021 9:29 pm : link
If the ball is fumbled into the end zone and it goes out of bounds on the slideline, then the ball should be placed at the spot where the offensive player lost the ball. You cannot fumble forward and advance your position at mid field.. the same rule should apply at the goal line

If the ball is fumbled and it goes out of the BACK of the end zone, then it should be a touch back.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's the rule and it rewards the defense  
Capt. Don : 1/19/2021 9:12 am : link
In comment 15127360 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15127349 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:


Quote:


In comment 15125883 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15125877 JonC said:


Quote:


for forcing the fumble. WR has to protect the ball.



But the defense doesn't recover the ball for possession.

So why reward them for just causing a fumble and not getting the possession?

That makes the play incomplete...



Here is an explanation: the end zone is the only territory that a team possesses. When an opposing team loses the ball in and through (or out the side of) your end zone, it becomes your ball. They lost it in your territory. It went through your territory and out of the field of play; so it becomes your ball.



I get it. But it's a rule that should be revisited and reassessed.

To me, it's like the "tuck rule". Sure, it was something in the books, but you just knew something didn't make sense about it.

Yesterday, FMiC was pitching to me that the rule was okay because the offense has too many advantages. I agree the offense has too many advantages, but there are better rules to change than to leave this distorted rule in place.


Thanks Nomad, I had not thought of it that way.

I do agree with FMiC that the offense has too many advantages, especially with the new interpretation of holding. I also agree with bw in dc that there are better ways to strike a balance. This rule needs to be revisted.

I would propose - if it goes through the back of the end zone - touchback.

If it goes through the sideline of the end zone, the offense retains the ball at the 10 yard line.
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