Is Peart ready? Do we resign Fleming and hope Peart beats him out and the loser becomes the swing tackle? Do we draft someone high? Or another stopgap FA if Fleming moves on?
Obviously none of us are on the coaching staff to see everything they saw this year in regard to Peart and Fleming, but interested to hear the opinion of the contributors to this board.
Ivan, can you see a scenario where Thomas moves to RT and Solder/Peart mans the left side? I’m not totally opposed to that.
I think it’s an additional 6 million. I’m pretty sure they would eat 10.5 million of his 16.5 cap hit whether he stays or goes.
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If the Giants pay Nate Solder 10M additional dollars next year, and then expect quality play from him, it would be ridiculous.
I think it’s an additional 6 million. I’m pretty sure they would eat 10.5 million of his 16.5 cap hit whether he stays or goes.
I don’t know why so many are so high on Peart with so little experience to go on. No on Fleming, and if Solder is your best bet then you have to go with him. If the OLine isn’t fixed nothing much else matters on offense, and that includes Barkley, and DJ.
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In comment 15126383 christian said:
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If the Giants pay Nate Solder 10M additional dollars next year, and then expect quality play from him, it would be ridiculous.
I think it’s an additional 6 million. I’m pretty sure they would eat 10.5 million of his 16.5 cap hit whether he stays or goes.
I don’t know why so many are so high on Peart with so little experience to go on. No on Fleming, and if Solder is your best bet then you have to go with him. If the OLine isn’t fixed nothing much else matters on offense, and that includes Barkley, and DJ.
Peart has had some VERY good games at RT already. And he's had a couple of games where he didn't look so good. But I think the fact that he has already had some taste of success in just his rookie year, a player that was projected to be a project who needed to add strength anyway, that bodes very well for his future as he gains experience and additional NFL reps.
The Giants didn’t spend the No. 4 pick in the draft to a Right Tackle. Stop with this nonsense already. Thomas played very well after a slow start.
That is a pretty edgy take.
Personally, I’d draft a guy on Day 2, and then have Peart, Solder and the rookie play a round robin “hungry hungry hippos” tournament for the job.
Talent is only one part of the equation.
And he’s also the best LT on the roster.
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feels gives them the best chance of winning.
That is a pretty edgy take.
Personally, I’d draft a guy on Day 2, and then have Peart, Solder and the rookie play a round robin “hungry hungry hippos” tournament for the job.
Talent is only one part of the equation.
Sounds goood, but if you keep Solder you are not going to pay him 16.5 million to sit on the bench.
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feels gives them the best chance of winning.
That is a pretty edgy take.
Personally, I’d draft a guy on Day 2, and then have Peart, Solder and the rookie play a round robin “hungry hungry hippos” tournament for the job.
Talent is only one part of the equation.
Edgy is the truth and how it will play out. They have lots of holes so while I do not anticipate and OT, it is possible.
Peart, Peart, Peart. The only reason Peart got any playing time this past year was because he was on a bad team with a bad O Line. You can’t count on him to be a starter next year if you expect the line to be better, and you don’t even know who the Guards will be.
Also, If you have capable tackles on entry level deals for three years that allows us some flexibility to spend big next year or two on free agents to buttress the O and D.
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Peart, and the best man wins. If he doesn't want to take a substantial pay cut you just give it to Peart. In this case Fleming stays as backup
Peart, Peart, Peart. The only reason Peart got any playing time this past year was because he was on a bad team with a bad O Line. You can’t count on him to be a starter next year if you expect the line to be better, and you don’t even know who the Guards will be.
This makes no sense. You are presuming that a rookie with no training camp or preseason is unlikely to improve in year 2 with (hopefully) a full training camp and preseason?
First he said he thought Peary could be really good but is still a work in progress and might need another full year before he’s ready to start at RT.
Then and here’s where it gets tricky, he said what if a really good center is there for the taking on day 2? Would it be crazy to draft him and move Gates to RT this year, and then in 22 if Peart is ready move Gates back inside to one of the guard spots?
I said no way at first as why mess with Gates, let him get even better at C but he said he thought Gates was at worst their second best OL. He could handle RT, and as long as Center can be filled with a good young guy, that puts our best out on the edges.
I’ve been tossing this around and realize it depends on finding that Center but it’s not as far fetched as I initially thought if one of the top Centers is there when we’re up on day 2.
I know we need offensive weapons and another CB but we also really need to finish up the OL, and if we don’t have RT straightened out yet, it needs to be fixed one way or another.
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Peart, and the best man wins. If he doesn't want to take a substantial pay cut you just give it to Peart. In this case Fleming stays as backup
Peart, Peart, Peart. The only reason Peart got any playing time this past year was because he was on a bad team with a bad O Line. You can’t count on him to be a starter next year if you expect the line to be better, and you don’t even know who the Guards will be.
Why? He played fairly well as a rookie, certainly as well as Fleming. This is what you want, to move the rookies into starting rolls. Not every player is going to be an All-Pro
Although paying Solder is probably the least stupid of those 3 scenarios mentioned.
Although paying Solder is probably the least stupid of those 3 scenarios mentioned.
You are going to count 10.5 million against the cap if Solder is on the team, or not, so let’s just start 3 second year players on the line next year, and hope that Humpty Dumpty gets better. Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me. Only on a 6-10 team with a 4 year in a row losing streak would you do something like that.
Although paying Solder is probably the least stupid of those 3 scenarios mentioned.
Yeah I thought it was a bit nuts too when my buddy brought it up but he kept saying just get the best five on the field for 21 and his 22 idea was just a fallback.
One thing he kept bringing up was how Judge wants his guys multiple and wasn’t dead set on playing the same five guys every down or game.
Seemed like a discussion for a message board to me and is why I posted his thoughts. Could Gates be a good RT and if so, does it make sense to move him there?
It’s a moot point if there’s no top center there in the draft but what if there is?
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Feel the POWER of the stupid, from the idea of moving Thomas to RT, right through the idea of moving Gates to RT for 2021 and then OG in 2022, finally settling on the idea of paying Solder $10 mil to play (probably very poorly) right tackle.
Although paying Solder is probably the least stupid of those 3 scenarios mentioned.
Yeah I thought it was a bit nuts too when my buddy brought it up but he kept saying just get the best five on the field for 21 and his 22 idea was just a fallback.
One thing he kept bringing up was how Judge wants his guys multiple and wasn’t dead set on playing the same five guys every down or game.
Seemed like a discussion for a message board to me and is why I posted his thoughts. Could Gates be a good RT and if so, does it make sense to move him there?
It’s a moot point if there’s no top center there in the draft but what if there is?
I don't think Gates is as good at OT. I also think no need to move Peart. We aren't in bad shape at any place on the OL.
Also continuity is important, especially Gates as the leader of that OL. Moving him off a position he's solidified and making the line calls, that would be a disaster.
I hate to say this (and I don't mean they're equal prospects} but he's imposing physically in a way that reminds me of Mikhi Becton.
fRom a small school and absent spring training, it's hard to evaluate his first year. The line got better from game to game and sometime even from quater to quarter, but he didn't.
Can't have the discussion without noting how strong the coqaching was this year. I knew after the draft, and wrote so, that the center had to be on the roster and that it was likely Gates. To take a kid who had never played the position and turn him inot a superb leader (and Alpha Male?} without benefit of a preseason says something very special.
Point being: You can bet there's a plan and if they're counting on this kid you can bet he'll deliver.
I hate to say this (and I don't mean they're equal prospects} but he's imposing physically in a way that reminds me of Mikhi Becton.
fRom a small school and absent spring training, it's hard to evaluate his first year. The line got better from game to game and sometime even from quater to quarter, but he didn't.
Can't have the discussion without noting how strong the coqaching was this year. I knew after the draft, and wrote so, that the center had to be on the roster and that it was likely Gates. To take a kid who had never played the position and turn him inot a superb leader (and Alpha Male?} without benefit of a preseason says something very special.
Point being: You can bet there's a plan and if they're counting on this kid you can bet he'll deliver.
Guy whimper
Draft is past history. No problem swapping sides if gives best line potential. Do not know how Peart's excellent 40 time translates into LT foot movement skills.
Assuming a tight correlation, Peart may well have a higher LT ceiling than Thomas. Then again, might be like Conklin, fine 40 but heavy feet who is looked on as RT only.
Imv, if Judge/coaches can get their arms around Peart being the starter, then Fleming would work as in the Swing Tackle role which is all you want from him. Solder is a risk not worth taking altogether.
Best case scenario is to sign/draft an upgrade to Fleming and let that TBD-player compete with Peart for the starting job and the "loser" becomes the Swing.
You might, but I doubt that's what DG would do. Why would he?
He's the GM who drafted Williams (5th round) and made a play for him as an FA before he drafted Matt Peart in the 3rd round last year. He also drafted RT Taylor Moton in IIRC the third round for the Panthers, and Moton may now walk to free agency after a very good year...
But both Williams and Moton are looking to get paid, and why would DG pony up that money for them NOW when in all liklihood he, egotist that he is, believes he's got his next budding stud RT on the Giants right now in Peart, on year two of his rookie deal? All he needs is Dave Googs to develop him.
I see a very slim chance for DG to bring in any OT above replacement level (vet minimum salary) depth to be a backup swing OT. So long as Peart and Thomas remain healthy.
Yeah cutting him saves $10 million, but re-signing a guy like Fleming is going to cost $4 million so the savings is down to $6.
If Peart is the guy and the staff deem him not ready, I am ok with Solder for one more year IF he can win the job.
Yeah cutting him saves $10 million, but re-signing a guy like Fleming is going to cost $4 million so the savings is down to $6.
If Peart is the guy and the staff deem him not ready, I am ok with Solder for one more year IF he can win the job.
You've got part of that wrong. If they eat the entire dead cap hit of 10 mil in 2021 by cutting him before June 1st without the "post june 1st" designation, they will have zero to pay Solder in 2022, an no cap hit then either.
But certainly they might keep Solder for 2021 as an option to play RT, I think it depends at least somewhat on how they go about signing their own FAs Williams and/or Tomlinson and who they sign to bolster the receiving corps.
I just think they'll find use for the 10 mil cap space they can save in 2021 by cutting Solder as a designated post June 1st cut, and roll the dice on Peart as their 2021 starting RT.
Assuming a tight correlation, Peart may well have a higher LT ceiling than Thomas. Then again, might be like Conklin, fine 40 but heavy feet who is looked on as RT only.
Can we please end this talk of replacing Thomas on the left side with Peart? If people are so enamored with his measurables, ask your self why he lasted all the way to essentially a 4th round pick? It's not like the Giants are the only coaching staff that believes they can turn talent into production. We will be lucky if Peart is good enough to start on the right side and if it turns out he's merely a serviceable swing tackle, that still an acceptable return given where he was drafted. They can't all be home runs.
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Whether he is cut before of after 2021 season, the cap hit to 2022 remains the same.
Yeah cutting him saves $10 million, but re-signing a guy like Fleming is going to cost $4 million so the savings is down to $6.
If Peart is the guy and the staff deem him not ready, I am ok with Solder for one more year IF he can win the job.
You've got part of that wrong. If they eat the entire dead cap hit of 10 mil in 2021 by cutting him before June 1st without the "post june 1st" designation, they will have zero to pay Solder in 2022, an no cap hit then either.
But certainly they might keep Solder for 2021 as an option to play RT, I think it depends at least somewhat on how they go about signing their own FAs Williams and/or Tomlinson and who they sign to bolster the receiving corps.
I just think they'll find use for the 10 mil cap space they can save in 2021 by cutting Solder as a designated post June 1st cut, and roll the dice on Peart as their 2021 starting RT.
Ah, yes I see that now. I think it's a dangerous gamble to roll with Peart from a depth perspective. The OL was pretty healthy this year and you can't assume that will be the case next year. If you have an injury to Peart or Thomas, who is playing behind them? Are the Giants going to pay Cam Fleming $4 million to back-up Peart? If so, why not gamble on Solder?
I could see a scenario where they put Solder at RT with Peart in a swing role and gamble on a 'bounce-back' year with Solder.
It's tough becasue they would have to figure this out during OTAs.
Cutting Solder and designating him a June 1st cut is a no-brainer. Leave the cap hits for the bonuses where they are, and save 24M dollars over the next two years. Spend a fraction of that savings on a swing tackle.
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Ah, yes I see that now. I think it's a dangerous gamble to roll with Peart from a depth perspective. The OL was pretty healthy this year and you can't assume that will be the case next year. If you have an injury to Peart or Thomas, who is playing behind them? Are the Giants going to pay Cam Fleming $4 million to back-up Peart? If so, why not gamble on Solder?
I could see a scenario where they put Solder at RT with Peart in a swing role and gamble on a 'bounce-back' year with Solder.
It's tough becasue they would have to figure this out during OTAs.
Not to beat a dead horse BH (and I haven't even read Christian's recent comment) but in Patricia Traina's
recent podcast on Locked On Giants covering the O-line year review, she said she expects Solder to announce his retirement rather than to return in 2021. She based her comment on something about Solder's physique (don't know when or how she actually saw him) - she said Solder appeared to have lost a lot of muscle mass since he last played!
Remember how Snee dropped maybe 100# in the 6 months to one year after he retired?
If Solder's lost a lot of weight - he's a "skinny" OL to begin with - it might indeed mean he has no plan to come back and fight for a RIGHT TACKLE job.
Just figured I'd pass that along.
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Why does anyone believe Solder can still play an NFL level? I don’t see any reason to.
Cap impact is likely to have a big impact on the decision.
Maybe you missed my post passing on info from P. Traina. But cap impact of course is irrelevant, if indeed Solder retires. Well, except a deal might be worked out with the team to spread his dead cap over 21-22, instead of it all cutting into the 2021 cap.