It has nothing to do with a fan or a sexist side. I already know that the sheer volume of texts is cringeworthy, but you're going to fire a guy because he was overzealous in chasing a woman and has no game? When all she had to do was text back and say "STOP, NOT INTERESTED," and once she did finally tell him to stop, he apologized and did what she asked?
And there isn't a woman alive under 50 years old, under 250 lbs, and probably most over 250 lbs, who has a smartphone in the last 20 years, tat has never gotten a dick pick. Let's stop with the pearl clutching. Like she can't handle seeing a picture of a penis? Yeah, I know it's not right, and I've only done it once and it was only by request, but come on.
Dude, you need to take a step back. He wasn't just chasing a woman, he was chasing a woman who could potentially cover the team he works for. To send a pic like that is the ultimate in unprofessionalism.
And your last paragraph is despicable. You're a better poster than that. He's a GM, get over it, the next person will be fine.
you can bet that any trades or draft picks or FA signings he was heavily involved in from 2016 (and way further back then that) mattered greatly in the decision to hire him for the job in the first place. As did all of his philosophical rhetoric about the importance of developing culture as a leader and the first hand accounts from people he worked with. This incident is part of his professional resume too. That's just a fact that I believe Porter himself confirmed (per Sandy's statement).
Regardless of any other parties actions this incident showed remarkably bad judgement by Porter not so far back in the past. In 2016 he was 37, not 17, interacting with someone he met on a professional level not someone he matched with on tinder. Instead of thinking about this punitively the key question is whether or not Porter can be trusted to be a key leader of a billion dollar business?
The debate/decision shouldn't be whether he broke a law or re the righteousness of what he did - though there doesn't seem to be any major disagreement there, nobody seems to think what he did was kosher, nor does anyone seem to think he deserves anything beyond not being in a high profile job almost entirely dependent on good judgement.
So if you were Steve Cohen would you trust his judgement and bet your $2b brand on him or move on?
Yes, thinking dick pics are appropriate is akin to falling victim to the Reign of Terror's fourth wave.
Either this is a serious matter or it is not. This guy was publicly humiliated, lost his job, must rehabilitate himself if possible and find a way to make a living if possible. Those are serious consequences. We must assume therefore that "thinking dick pics are appropriate" is a serious matter for which there is no defense, mitigating circumstance or excuse. The denunciation is sufficient.
This is a cultural revolution and the sooner people like allstarjim realize it and get on board, the better.
Do continue framing your anger at a man experiencing consequences
you can bet that any trades or draft picks or FA signings he was heavily involved in from 2016 (and way further back then that) mattered greatly in the decision to hire him for the job in the first place. As did all of his philosophical rhetoric about the importance of developing culture as a leader and the first hand accounts from people he worked with. This incident is part of his professional resume too. That's just a fact that I believe Porter himself confirmed (per Sandy's statement).
Regardless of any other parties actions this incident showed remarkably bad judgement by Porter not so far back in the past. In 2016 he was 37, not 17, interacting with someone he met on a professional level not someone he matched with on tinder. Instead of thinking about this punitively the key question is whether or not Porter can be trusted to be a key leader of a billion dollar business?
The debate/decision shouldn't be whether he broke a law or re the righteousness of what he did - though there doesn't seem to be any major disagreement there, nobody seems to think what he did was kosher, nor does anyone seem to think he deserves anything beyond not being in a high profile job almost entirely dependent on good judgement.
So if you were Steve Cohen would you trust his judgement and bet your $2b brand on him or move on?
This is a great post. I had said above maybe Steve gives him a chance to redeem himself. I am thinking more in the lines of normal people here. He just spent $2B on a franchise and this is not the type of person you would want running your baseball team.
revolution (if that was a serious comment). It was never and currently is not ok to expose yourself to women (or anyone) as a form of flirtation.
technology has enabled actions like this, and many of them I'm sure stay private, but when you have aspirations to be in a public facing role (like a pro sports team GM) you have another standard you are beholden to.
You can question how much of a victim the reporter is in this case based on her actions and the story as it's written (there are some holes/questions), but it doesn't change that what Porter did epitomizes poor judgment from a position where judgment is a critical.
The decision for Cohen was easy and Mets fans should be happy it was made so swiftly.
about this story is that they literally met in an elevator and like, hardly knew each other. You can understand a bunch of messages and pics from someone you are seriously dating, or someone you've been on a few dates with, maybe things getting serious, etc. But the fact that they were basically strangers makes this all the more pathetic by Porter.
Steven Cohen
@StevenACohen2
·
8m
Replying to
@HowitzerDon
I have no idea .I have an organization of 400 employees that matter more than any one individual. No action would of set a poor example to the culture I’m trying to build
THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
Steven Cohen
@StevenACohen2
·
8m
Replying to
@HowitzerDon
I have no idea .I have an organization of 400 employees that matter more than any one individual. No action would of set a poor example to the culture I’m trying to build
THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
You can act hyperbolic about it, that's your right. From what I know there isn't even a criminal complaint and there probably shouldn't be, but at the same time there is no obligation for Steve Cohen to keep him employed as the public face of his franchise.
If this had been revealed prior to being hired, he likely wouldn't have been hired, but at least Cohen would have had a choice. Now Cohen had none.
THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
You do not understand, are engaging in counter-revolutionary thinking and displaying bad attitude. It is necessary in order to maintain the revolution for this counter-revolutionary to be publicly denounced, confess his error, receive punishment, and re-educated. Perhaps after he has been rehabilitated, he can find something useful to do like be a gardener. In the meantime, remember, the nail that stands up is the one that gets hammered.
WTF are you talking about? I definitely think we need to put him in the gulag for a couple of years for his re-education.
RE: A little side note while I'm pretending to have some insight
The kind of guy that camps on the side of "she did not respond, and that would have stopped it, so it's not really harrassment" is pretty much the same type of person that would TAKE ANY RESPONSE AT ALL, EVEN A FIRM STOP! as a type of encouragement, probably...
Penis brain thinks: " hey, she's answering my dick pics!"
GTFO with ANY justification to that
behavior.
I was talking about the legal definition of harassment. Harassment is continuing behavior after the person has communicated that it is unwanted. No communication is certainly understood by many of us what that means, but from a legal standpoint, in my layman understanding, the person has to actually say something or have it communicated the behavior is unwanted for it to be harassment. The thing most of you don't get is that I agree with almost all of your opinions on him...it WAS pathetic. He DEFINITELY should have realized that she wasn't in to him well before 60 texts. And, an unsolicited dick pick is wrong and unprofessional.
We see eye to eye on all that.
What we don't see eye to eye on is this: If I'm a woman who has received a picture of a dude who sends me a pic of his bulge, and I say I like it and want to see more, and ask about his marital status...and then the guy continues, even if it's cringey, then I tell him to stop and he apologizes and stops, then I hang on to the texts and wait four and a half years and ANONYMOUSLY destroy his life over these texts, I'm the worst bitch in the world. She gets to sit back and enjoy anonymity while his world burns down. And Passan and Kimes are terrible humans.
Some of you need to understand that the "revolution" or whatever the fuck should mean treating women as equals, but that doesn't mean subserviant, and it doesn't mean women are absolved from their responsibility and behavior also.
BTW, I also understood Cohen's answer, and it was a good one, even though I don't agree with his decision. To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
I have a clue, and it doesn't matter what year it is. Stop allowing women to fuck over dudes this way. This white knight bullshit is wrong.
You sound like someone that speaks from experience of harassment.
Yup, I sure do. I've had my crotch and my ass (twice) un-wanting-ly grabbed in the workplace. You know what I did? Nothing, because I didn't think it was worth it to hurt someone's career over something stupid they did. Further, I would never use a situation like that try for personal gain at the expense of another.
RE: RE: A little side note while I'm pretending to have some insight
To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
this isn't a legal argument my dude.
it's a business decision being made by a multi-billion dollar organization.
let's take out the argument that Porter's behavior was gross, inappropriate, and childish (because clearly you don't agree with that sentiment). Let's stick to business and logic:
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on in exchange for new coverage on this matter every single day for the next month or so?
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on at the risk of alienating BOTH female and male employees who would be disappointed by him not being fired?
~Are they willing to keep him on at the risk that he potentially does this with ANOTHER WOMAN (maybe even an employee or subordinate) and expose themselves to massive amounts of litigation risk?
Let me know what you think the correct answers are to these questions. I'm pretty sure any rational person would say absolutely NO.
In the end, Porter is replaceable.
RE: RE: RE: A little side note while I'm pretending to have some insight
To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
this isn't a legal argument my dude.
it's a business decision being made by a multi-billion dollar organization.
let's take out the argument that Porter's behavior was gross, inappropriate, and childish (because clearly you don't agree with that sentiment). Let's stick to business and logic:
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on in exchange for new coverage on this matter every single day for the next month or so?
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on at the risk of alienating BOTH female and male employees who would be disappointed by him not being fired?
~Are they willing to keep him on at the risk that he potentially does this with ANOTHER WOMAN (maybe even an employee or subordinate) and expose themselves to massive amounts of litigation risk?
Let me know what you think the correct answers are to these questions. I'm pretty sure any rational person would say absolutely NO.
you sound like someone who doesn't realize that men and women are not on equal footing when it comes to these things. And you're probably like, the only person on earth who thinks that way (if you do think that way).
To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
this isn't a legal argument my dude.
it's a business decision being made by a multi-billion dollar organization.
let's take out the argument that Porter's behavior was gross, inappropriate, and childish (because clearly you don't agree with that sentiment). Let's stick to business and logic:
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on in exchange for new coverage on this matter every single day for the next month or so?
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on at the risk of alienating BOTH female and male employees who would be disappointed by him not being fired?
~Are they willing to keep him on at the risk that he potentially does this with ANOTHER WOMAN (maybe even an employee or subordinate) and expose themselves to massive amounts of litigation risk?
Let me know what you think the correct answers are to these questions. I'm pretty sure any rational person would say absolutely NO.
In the end, Porter is replaceable.
I agree with all that. Still empathize with the guy. I was commenting on the legal part because some people were saying it's sexual harassment, and I don't believe that's the case because of what I explained above...harassment is by definition, unwanted sexual attention (for lack of a better word). But when she responded via text in the affirmative that she liked his advances, that is communicating it's unwanted. To any logical person who understands social norms, being ghosted is communicating that you're not wanted. However, there's no defining line on when that crosses over from, "hey, you still there" to, "you're harassing me." She actually has to tell him to stop, and she did eventually, and when she did, he did.
I can justify the decision by Cohen and your rationale above. I can also believe the whole thing is a damn shame and she's worse of a human than Porter.
you sound like someone who doesn't realize that men and women are not on equal footing when it comes to these things. And you're probably like, the only person on earth who thinks that way (if you do think that way).
I've seen a lot of other posts showing empathy to Porter. Not just here, twitter and elsewhere.
you sound like someone who doesn't realize that men and women are not on equal footing when it comes to these things. And you're probably like, the only person on earth who thinks that way (if you do think that way).
I understand what you're saying, to a point I agree. Where I disagree is the absolution of a woman having any responsibility whatsoever like they have no agency or power to stand up for themselves. If we are treating women as people with power, then why are we acting like her leading him on and then not sooner telling him to stop was not a factor in this story? Why is she 100% the victim and Porter is 100% the guilty party? She was not an employee of Porter's. He had no real power over her where her career would be in jeopardy for not responding to his advances. Indeed, when she asked him to stop, he said she could still go to him for anything for work.
some sort of an objective here to rate who is a "better human"?
The only real question is if Porter is fit to be the GM. He could have sent pics of his junk to the devil - doesn't really change things.
FMiC, I just think the part of holding on to this for four years, then he gets a life-changing job and opportunity, and then running this, anonymously to boot, when you, the accuser, in some part encouraged and was a participant in the unwanted behavior, that is completely, irredeemingly despicable.
some sort of an objective here to rate who is a "better human"?
The only real question is if Porter is fit to be the GM. He could have sent pics of his junk to the devil - doesn't really change things.
FMiC, I just think the part of holding on to this for four years, then he gets a life-changing job and opportunity, and then running this, anonymously to boot, when you, the accuser, in some part encouraged and was a participant in the unwanted behavior, that is completely, irredeemingly despicable.
Look - I think as a society we go way too far in villifying people and the Cancel Culture behind it. And things like this probably shouldn't impact a hiring decision, but that's where we are.
I hate the fact that things done years ago that aren't terrible acts have repercussions today - but that's where the blowback from people sitting on Social Media waiting to be outraged and act comes into play. There should be consequences for actions. I don't agree that those consequences need to be public shame and loss of a job.
In many ways - we've not grown very much since the Scarlet Letter or the Salem days.
some sort of an objective here to rate who is a "better human"?
The only real question is if Porter is fit to be the GM. He could have sent pics of his junk to the devil - doesn't really change things.
FMiC, I just think the part of holding on to this for four years, then he gets a life-changing job and opportunity, and then running this, anonymously to boot, when you, the accuser, in some part encouraged and was a participant in the unwanted behavior, that is completely, irredeemingly despicable.
Look - I think as a society we go way too far in villifying people and the Cancel Culture behind it. And things like this probably shouldn't impact a hiring decision, but that's where we are.
I hate the fact that things done years ago that aren't terrible acts have repercussions today - but that's where the blowback from people sitting on Social Media waiting to be outraged and act comes into play. There should be consequences for actions. I don't agree that those consequences need to be public shame and loss of a job.
In many ways - we've not grown very much since the Scarlet Letter or the Salem days.
could we find someone sympathetic to the true victim here, the multi millionaire baseball GM who sent unsolicited dick pics.
Framing it this way without nuance or context is exactly why Porter is out of a job and speaks to the post FMiC made just below yours. We truly haven't come very far since the scarlett letter days.
the story not the reporter, and IMO, it was not out of concern for the reporter and her career as they say, but out of the expectation that Porter would some day ascend beyond the smaller role he had and make the story more impactful. IOW to get more clicks and eyeballs.
Even now, the way the story is released it doesn't reveal the reporter's identity or any characteristics about her beyond that she's not American. So today, when in theory the story "can't her career" because she's no longer n journalism they still don't reveal any personally identifiable characteristics of the woman.
THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
no but the idea that someone can pull a dark shitty time in your life out of a hat once you work your self up to a big position is bullshit.
theres no perfect time to out someone for wrong doing. you do it when it happens. she was so worried he would keep acting this way with others? well wheres the bread crumbs? wheres the bill cosby list of victims?
what if the guy changed his ways after this incident? and it was a shitty dark time in his life where he wasn't making sound decisions?
he wasn't even physical with her, 60 desperate sounding text messages? really? what if she was on a limited cell plan? you know what take this guy out back and shoot him in the head in front of his mother.
it's being glossed over that this wasnt something in his personal life
it was a business relationship. The phrase "don't shit where you eat" isn't exactly some new phenomenon.
Imo there's a very big difference in the following 2 recipient scenarios even if Porter sent the exact same 60 texts:
a) someone in his personal life - snapchat, tinder, whatever
b) someone in his professional life where literally every employee agrees to a code of conduct (esp if you're an exec).
He opened himself up to this problem not just with his specific texts but by mixing personal with professional. That was his choice and it is a shame that he self sabotaged a promising career with something stupid. But that's not anyone else's fault. He owns all of it.
If anyone on this thread texted a pic of their junk to anyone their work with, or a vendor, unsolicited, and their employer found out, what do you expect would happen?
could we find someone sympathetic to the true victim here, the multi millionaire baseball GM who sent unsolicited dick pics.
Framing it this way without nuance or context is exactly why Porter is out of a job and speaks to the post FMiC made just below yours. We truly haven't come very far since the scarlett letter days.
Give me a fucking break.
There's plenty of opportunity for context and nuance. This isn't that.
THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
no but the idea that someone can pull a dark shitty time in your life out of a hat once you work your self up to a big position is bullshit.
theres no perfect time to out someone for wrong doing. you do it when it happens. she was so worried he would keep acting this way with others? well wheres the bread crumbs? wheres the bill cosby list of victims?
what if the guy changed his ways after this incident? and it was a shitty dark time in his life where he wasn't making sound decisions?
he wasn't even physical with her, 60 desperate sounding text messages? really? what if she was on a limited cell plan? you know what take this guy out back and shoot him in the head in front of his mother.
Again with the hysterical histrionics.
What if you don't shoot him in the head in front of his mother, but you also don't want him as the guy with the "keys" to your professional sports team because you don't know if this was a momentary lapse of poor judgment or a pattern and frankly you don't give a shit (if you own the team).
Or is not keeping him on as Mets GM the same thing as shooting him in the head in front of his mother.
THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
no but the idea that someone can pull a dark shitty time in your life out of a hat once you work your self up to a big position is bullshit.
theres no perfect time to out someone for wrong doing. you do it when it happens. she was so worried he would keep acting this way with others? well wheres the bread crumbs? wheres the bill cosby list of victims?
what if the guy changed his ways after this incident? and it was a shitty dark time in his life where he wasn't making sound decisions?
he wasn't even physical with her, 60 desperate sounding text messages? really? what if she was on a limited cell plan? you know what take this guy out back and shoot him in the head in front of his mother.
Again with the hysterical histrionics.
What if you don't shoot him in the head in front of his mother, but you also don't want him as the guy with the "keys" to your professional sports team because you don't know if this was a momentary lapse of poor judgment or a pattern and frankly you don't give a shit (if you own the team).
Or is not keeping him on as Mets GM the same thing as shooting him in the head in front of his mother.
I'm more outraged with the woman, Passan, Kimes, and ESPN than I am with Cohen for firing Porter.
a video of a 15-year old kid singing a rap song with the n word in it surfacing 4 years later and being sent to his/her college to get their admission rescinded.
this isn't someone from Hollywood making an off-color joke and the media and elite having an over the top reaction.
this is not some old social media posts made during some youthful indiscretion that were questionable being used years later to impugn someone's character
this was a 35-year old man, who felt like the way to get the attention of a woman who was ignoring him was to send a picture of his (or someone's) erect genitals.
He is not being charged with a crime, but he's also not being allowed to stay in a role where it would reflect negatively on his employer.
People have recovered from such transgressions maybe he will to, but even if you don't have an issue with sending unsolicited dick picks (you're insane if you think that's ok), Porter is NOT the victim. This is not a Scarlet Letter scenario, that was consenting adults, this was unwanted and inappropriate.
Seriously, I would have thought maybe a good night's sleep after last night's horror show of victim shaming and oversharing might have changed the mindset. But here we are, doubling down on a losing hand and blaming literally everybody but the scumbag who committed the act. Incredible.
Seriously, I would have thought maybe a good night's sleep after last night's horror show of victim shaming and oversharing might have changed the mindset. But here we are, doubling down on a losing hand and blaming literally everybody but the scumbag who committed the act. Incredible.
I'm not afraid to talk about anecdotes from my past. It's a personal story from almost 25 years ago. It's relevance is in the power that a woman can hold over a man without taking personal responsibility of their own behavior.
Further, I'm not willing to take the story at 100% face value. It's a one-sided story, and even on that one side, as was earlier mentioned, her actions definitely contributed in part to what happened.
Imagine if she left facts out that Passan didn't report. I could definitely see Porter not adding to it in fear of making the situation worse. And that's the ugly side of this, the woman has 100% of the control over the outcome in these scenarios. I really hope none of you ever have to deal with a woman like this.
And no, this doesn't mean I condone sending unwanted dick pics. I think I've made that clear, it's foolish, childish, unprofessional, creepy, and gross. In case I have to make that more clear than I already have.
I'm not super old but I've been in a relationship since the late '90s. We didn't do stuff like that back then, probably just for technological reasons. But did anyone ever send a dick pic to a woman and get a positive response? Maybe flowers are too cheesy but there has to be an in-between, right?
Complaining about a one sided story when we got a one sided story from you about an experience when you tried to date a 17 year old girl.
And because of that experience, you know all about all woman in situations like this? You know nothing about this person. She's 100% in control of the situation? She sure wasn't in control when Porter decided to send what he did after 62 unanswered messages. Acting like Porter had no control of this situation is laughable. He's 100% responsible for his actions and the potential consequences. It's a good thing you're anonymous on here because what you've said on this thread is shameful. But you don't care about what any of us think. Cool, have a nice life.
If he flashed her in person, he could be prosecuted for it. Why should this be treated so differently?
We can quibble all day about the woman's side, whether she led him on at all, if she was actually "victimized", etc etc, but none of that actually matters. The point is that a grown man shouldn't be sending pictures of his wedding tackle to a woman he barely knows when she has clearly displayed she isn't interested and didn't ask to see his dick. He's embarrassed the organization and raised serious questions about his judgment and professionalism.
I'm not afraid to talk about anecdotes from my past. It's a personal story from almost 25 years ago. It's relevance is in the power that a woman can hold over a man without taking personal responsibility of their own behavior.
Further, I'm not willing to take the story at 100% face value. It's a one-sided story, and even on that one side, as was earlier mentioned, her actions definitely contributed in part to what happened.
Imagine if she left facts out that Passan didn't report. I could definitely see Porter not adding to it in fear of making the situation worse. And that's the ugly side of this, the woman has 100% of the control over the outcome in these scenarios. I really hope none of you ever have to deal with a woman like this.
And no, this doesn't mean I condone sending unwanted dick pics. I think I've made that clear, it's foolish, childish, unprofessional, creepy, and gross. In case I have to make that more clear than I already have.
Porter has admitted it is true, and apologized for it.
Conflating this situation with a 17 year old girl you turned down and she went off the rails in reaction just doesn't align. You actually had the power over her, thus her angry emotional reaction and throwing you out the door of the moving car.
No real parallel between your experience and "the power that a woman can hold over a man without taking personal responsibility of their own behavior".
It has nothing to do with a fan or a sexist side. I already know that the sheer volume of texts is cringeworthy, but you're going to fire a guy because he was overzealous in chasing a woman and has no game? When all she had to do was text back and say "STOP, NOT INTERESTED," and once she did finally tell him to stop, he apologized and did what she asked?
And there isn't a woman alive under 50 years old, under 250 lbs, and probably most over 250 lbs, who has a smartphone in the last 20 years, tat has never gotten a dick pick. Let's stop with the pearl clutching. Like she can't handle seeing a picture of a penis? Yeah, I know it's not right, and I've only done it once and it was only by request, but come on.
Dude, you need to take a step back. He wasn't just chasing a woman, he was chasing a woman who could potentially cover the team he works for. To send a pic like that is the ultimate in unprofessionalism.
And your last paragraph is despicable. You're a better poster than that. He's a GM, get over it, the next person will be fine.
Regardless of any other parties actions this incident showed remarkably bad judgement by Porter not so far back in the past. In 2016 he was 37, not 17, interacting with someone he met on a professional level not someone he matched with on tinder. Instead of thinking about this punitively the key question is whether or not Porter can be trusted to be a key leader of a billion dollar business?
The debate/decision shouldn't be whether he broke a law or re the righteousness of what he did - though there doesn't seem to be any major disagreement there, nobody seems to think what he did was kosher, nor does anyone seem to think he deserves anything beyond not being in a high profile job almost entirely dependent on good judgement.
So if you were Steve Cohen would you trust his judgement and bet your $2b brand on him or move on?
This is a cultural revolution and the sooner people like allstarjim realize it and get on board, the better.
It's a good look.
Regardless of any other parties actions this incident showed remarkably bad judgement by Porter not so far back in the past. In 2016 he was 37, not 17, interacting with someone he met on a professional level not someone he matched with on tinder. Instead of thinking about this punitively the key question is whether or not Porter can be trusted to be a key leader of a billion dollar business?
The debate/decision shouldn't be whether he broke a law or re the righteousness of what he did - though there doesn't seem to be any major disagreement there, nobody seems to think what he did was kosher, nor does anyone seem to think he deserves anything beyond not being in a high profile job almost entirely dependent on good judgement.
So if you were Steve Cohen would you trust his judgement and bet your $2b brand on him or move on?
This is a great post. I had said above maybe Steve gives him a chance to redeem himself. I am thinking more in the lines of normal people here. He just spent $2B on a franchise and this is not the type of person you would want running your baseball team.
technology has enabled actions like this, and many of them I'm sure stay private, but when you have aspirations to be in a public facing role (like a pro sports team GM) you have another standard you are beholden to.
You can question how much of a victim the reporter is in this case based on her actions and the story as it's written (there are some holes/questions), but it doesn't change that what Porter did epitomizes poor judgment from a position where judgment is a critical.
The decision for Cohen was easy and Mets fans should be happy it was made so swiftly.
@StevenACohen2
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8m
Replying to
@HowitzerDon
I have no idea .I have an organization of 400 employees that matter more than any one individual. No action would of set a poor example to the culture I’m trying to build
we don't need these people in our society!
@StevenACohen2
·
8m
Replying to
@HowitzerDon
I have no idea .I have an organization of 400 employees that matter more than any one individual. No action would of set a poor example to the culture I’m trying to build
Good answer
we don't need these people in our society!
You can act hyperbolic about it, that's your right. From what I know there isn't even a criminal complaint and there probably shouldn't be, but at the same time there is no obligation for Steve Cohen to keep him employed as the public face of his franchise.
If this had been revealed prior to being hired, he likely wouldn't have been hired, but at least Cohen would have had a choice. Now Cohen had none.
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
Go fuck yourself.
You do not understand, are engaging in counter-revolutionary thinking and displaying bad attitude. It is necessary in order to maintain the revolution for this counter-revolutionary to be publicly denounced, confess his error, receive punishment, and re-educated. Perhaps after he has been rehabilitated, he can find something useful to do like be a gardener. In the meantime, remember, the nail that stands up is the one that gets hammered.
WTF are you talking about? I definitely think we need to put him in the gulag for a couple of years for his re-education.
The kind of guy that camps on the side of "she did not respond, and that would have stopped it, so it's not really harrassment" is pretty much the same type of person that would TAKE ANY RESPONSE AT ALL, EVEN A FIRM STOP! as a type of encouragement, probably...
Penis brain thinks: " hey, she's answering my dick pics!"
GTFO with ANY justification to that
behavior.
I was talking about the legal definition of harassment. Harassment is continuing behavior after the person has communicated that it is unwanted. No communication is certainly understood by many of us what that means, but from a legal standpoint, in my layman understanding, the person has to actually say something or have it communicated the behavior is unwanted for it to be harassment. The thing most of you don't get is that I agree with almost all of your opinions on him...it WAS pathetic. He DEFINITELY should have realized that she wasn't in to him well before 60 texts. And, an unsolicited dick pick is wrong and unprofessional.
We see eye to eye on all that.
What we don't see eye to eye on is this: If I'm a woman who has received a picture of a dude who sends me a pic of his bulge, and I say I like it and want to see more, and ask about his marital status...and then the guy continues, even if it's cringey, then I tell him to stop and he apologizes and stops, then I hang on to the texts and wait four and a half years and ANONYMOUSLY destroy his life over these texts, I'm the worst bitch in the world. She gets to sit back and enjoy anonymity while his world burns down. And Passan and Kimes are terrible humans.
Some of you need to understand that the "revolution" or whatever the fuck should mean treating women as equals, but that doesn't mean subserviant, and it doesn't mean women are absolved from their responsibility and behavior also.
BTW, I also understood Cohen's answer, and it was a good one, even though I don't agree with his decision. To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
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In comment 15127479 Gary from The East End said:
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In comment 15127473 allstarjim said:
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BECAUSE SHE LED HIM ON!
Dude, it's 2021. Buy a fucking clue.
I have a clue, and it doesn't matter what year it is. Stop allowing women to fuck over dudes this way. This white knight bullshit is wrong.
You sound like someone that speaks from experience of harassment.
Yup, I sure do. I've had my crotch and my ass (twice) un-wanting-ly grabbed in the workplace. You know what I did? Nothing, because I didn't think it was worth it to hurt someone's career over something stupid they did. Further, I would never use a situation like that try for personal gain at the expense of another.
To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
this isn't a legal argument my dude.
it's a business decision being made by a multi-billion dollar organization.
let's take out the argument that Porter's behavior was gross, inappropriate, and childish (because clearly you don't agree with that sentiment). Let's stick to business and logic:
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on in exchange for new coverage on this matter every single day for the next month or so?
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on at the risk of alienating BOTH female and male employees who would be disappointed by him not being fired?
~Are they willing to keep him on at the risk that he potentially does this with ANOTHER WOMAN (maybe even an employee or subordinate) and expose themselves to massive amounts of litigation risk?
Let me know what you think the correct answers are to these questions. I'm pretty sure any rational person would say absolutely NO.
In the end, Porter is replaceable.
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In comment 15127626 BelieveJJ said:
To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
this isn't a legal argument my dude.
it's a business decision being made by a multi-billion dollar organization.
let's take out the argument that Porter's behavior was gross, inappropriate, and childish (because clearly you don't agree with that sentiment). Let's stick to business and logic:
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on in exchange for new coverage on this matter every single day for the next month or so?
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on at the risk of alienating BOTH female and male employees who would be disappointed by him not being fired?
~Are they willing to keep him on at the risk that he potentially does this with ANOTHER WOMAN (maybe even an employee or subordinate) and expose themselves to massive amounts of litigation risk?
Let me know what you think the correct answers are to these questions. I'm pretty sure any rational person would say absolutely NO.
In the end, Porter is replaceable.
Very well put
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In comment 15127626 BelieveJJ said:
To me, some statute of limitations should apply here and if the expectation is that you have had to never made a mistake or done something stupid in your life or you can't have an important job, I think that's sad. People are fallible and I empathize with Porter.
this isn't a legal argument my dude.
it's a business decision being made by a multi-billion dollar organization.
let's take out the argument that Porter's behavior was gross, inappropriate, and childish (because clearly you don't agree with that sentiment). Let's stick to business and logic:
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on in exchange for new coverage on this matter every single day for the next month or so?
~Are the Mets willing to keep him on at the risk of alienating BOTH female and male employees who would be disappointed by him not being fired?
~Are they willing to keep him on at the risk that he potentially does this with ANOTHER WOMAN (maybe even an employee or subordinate) and expose themselves to massive amounts of litigation risk?
Let me know what you think the correct answers are to these questions. I'm pretty sure any rational person would say absolutely NO.
In the end, Porter is replaceable.
I agree with all that. Still empathize with the guy. I was commenting on the legal part because some people were saying it's sexual harassment, and I don't believe that's the case because of what I explained above...harassment is by definition, unwanted sexual attention (for lack of a better word). But when she responded via text in the affirmative that she liked his advances, that is communicating it's unwanted. To any logical person who understands social norms, being ghosted is communicating that you're not wanted. However, there's no defining line on when that crosses over from, "hey, you still there" to, "you're harassing me." She actually has to tell him to stop, and she did eventually, and when she did, he did.
I can justify the decision by Cohen and your rationale above. I can also believe the whole thing is a damn shame and she's worse of a human than Porter.
I've seen a lot of other posts showing empathy to Porter. Not just here, twitter and elsewhere.
The only real question is if Porter is fit to be the GM. He could have sent pics of his junk to the devil - doesn't really change things.
I understand what you're saying, to a point I agree. Where I disagree is the absolution of a woman having any responsibility whatsoever like they have no agency or power to stand up for themselves. If we are treating women as people with power, then why are we acting like her leading him on and then not sooner telling him to stop was not a factor in this story? Why is she 100% the victim and Porter is 100% the guilty party? She was not an employee of Porter's. He had no real power over her where her career would be in jeopardy for not responding to his advances. Indeed, when she asked him to stop, he said she could still go to him for anything for work.
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Bringing the stupid on this thread. Clueless.
Go fuck yourself.
OK, sure thing.
The only real question is if Porter is fit to be the GM. He could have sent pics of his junk to the devil - doesn't really change things.
FMiC, I just think the part of holding on to this for four years, then he gets a life-changing job and opportunity, and then running this, anonymously to boot, when you, the accuser, in some part encouraged and was a participant in the unwanted behavior, that is completely, irredeemingly despicable.
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some sort of an objective here to rate who is a "better human"?
The only real question is if Porter is fit to be the GM. He could have sent pics of his junk to the devil - doesn't really change things.
FMiC, I just think the part of holding on to this for four years, then he gets a life-changing job and opportunity, and then running this, anonymously to boot, when you, the accuser, in some part encouraged and was a participant in the unwanted behavior, that is completely, irredeemingly despicable.
Look - I think as a society we go way too far in villifying people and the Cancel Culture behind it. And things like this probably shouldn't impact a hiring decision, but that's where we are.
I hate the fact that things done years ago that aren't terrible acts have repercussions today - but that's where the blowback from people sitting on Social Media waiting to be outraged and act comes into play. There should be consequences for actions. I don't agree that those consequences need to be public shame and loss of a job.
In many ways - we've not grown very much since the Scarlet Letter or the Salem days.
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In comment 15127885 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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some sort of an objective here to rate who is a "better human"?
The only real question is if Porter is fit to be the GM. He could have sent pics of his junk to the devil - doesn't really change things.
FMiC, I just think the part of holding on to this for four years, then he gets a life-changing job and opportunity, and then running this, anonymously to boot, when you, the accuser, in some part encouraged and was a participant in the unwanted behavior, that is completely, irredeemingly despicable.
Look - I think as a society we go way too far in villifying people and the Cancel Culture behind it. And things like this probably shouldn't impact a hiring decision, but that's where we are.
I hate the fact that things done years ago that aren't terrible acts have repercussions today - but that's where the blowback from people sitting on Social Media waiting to be outraged and act comes into play. There should be consequences for actions. I don't agree that those consequences need to be public shame and loss of a job.
In many ways - we've not grown very much since the Scarlet Letter or the Salem days.
100% agree.
Framing it this way without nuance or context is exactly why Porter is out of a job and speaks to the post FMiC made just below yours. We truly haven't come very far since the scarlett letter days.
Even now, the way the story is released it doesn't reveal the reporter's identity or any characteristics about her beyond that she's not American. So today, when in theory the story "can't her career" because she's no longer n journalism they still don't reveal any personally identifiable characteristics of the woman.
Anything else ESPN claims is disingenuous IMO.
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THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
no but the idea that someone can pull a dark shitty time in your life out of a hat once you work your self up to a big position is bullshit.
theres no perfect time to out someone for wrong doing. you do it when it happens. she was so worried he would keep acting this way with others? well wheres the bread crumbs? wheres the bill cosby list of victims?
what if the guy changed his ways after this incident? and it was a shitty dark time in his life where he wasn't making sound decisions?
he wasn't even physical with her, 60 desperate sounding text messages? really? what if she was on a limited cell plan? you know what take this guy out back and shoot him in the head in front of his mother.
Imo there's a very big difference in the following 2 recipient scenarios even if Porter sent the exact same 60 texts:
a) someone in his personal life - snapchat, tinder, whatever
b) someone in his professional life where literally every employee agrees to a code of conduct (esp if you're an exec).
He opened himself up to this problem not just with his specific texts but by mixing personal with professional. That was his choice and it is a shame that he self sabotaged a promising career with something stupid. But that's not anyone else's fault. He owns all of it.
If anyone on this thread texted a pic of their junk to anyone their work with, or a vendor, unsolicited, and their employer found out, what do you expect would happen?
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could we find someone sympathetic to the true victim here, the multi millionaire baseball GM who sent unsolicited dick pics.
Framing it this way without nuance or context is exactly why Porter is out of a job and speaks to the post FMiC made just below yours. We truly haven't come very far since the scarlett letter days.
Give me a fucking break.
There's plenty of opportunity for context and nuance. This isn't that.
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In comment 15127793 Platos said:
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THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
no but the idea that someone can pull a dark shitty time in your life out of a hat once you work your self up to a big position is bullshit.
theres no perfect time to out someone for wrong doing. you do it when it happens. she was so worried he would keep acting this way with others? well wheres the bread crumbs? wheres the bill cosby list of victims?
what if the guy changed his ways after this incident? and it was a shitty dark time in his life where he wasn't making sound decisions?
he wasn't even physical with her, 60 desperate sounding text messages? really? what if she was on a limited cell plan? you know what take this guy out back and shoot him in the head in front of his mother.
Again with the hysterical histrionics.
What if you don't shoot him in the head in front of his mother, but you also don't want him as the guy with the "keys" to your professional sports team because you don't know if this was a momentary lapse of poor judgment or a pattern and frankly you don't give a shit (if you own the team).
Or is not keeping him on as Mets GM the same thing as shooting him in the head in front of his mother.
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In comment 15127801 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 15127793 Platos said:
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THROW HIM IN JAIL. guy fails at pulling a foreign reporter and doesn't get the point until after she says he crossed the line? throw him in the back of a van with his entire family and drive it off a cliff!
we don't need these people in our society!
I can't honestly believe that some people think that this situation is just a case of a guy having bad game or trying and failing to bang a chick. And the fact that you don't know the difference between that and what was actually happening, is really fucked up
no but the idea that someone can pull a dark shitty time in your life out of a hat once you work your self up to a big position is bullshit.
theres no perfect time to out someone for wrong doing. you do it when it happens. she was so worried he would keep acting this way with others? well wheres the bread crumbs? wheres the bill cosby list of victims?
what if the guy changed his ways after this incident? and it was a shitty dark time in his life where he wasn't making sound decisions?
he wasn't even physical with her, 60 desperate sounding text messages? really? what if she was on a limited cell plan? you know what take this guy out back and shoot him in the head in front of his mother.
Again with the hysterical histrionics.
What if you don't shoot him in the head in front of his mother, but you also don't want him as the guy with the "keys" to your professional sports team because you don't know if this was a momentary lapse of poor judgment or a pattern and frankly you don't give a shit (if you own the team).
Or is not keeping him on as Mets GM the same thing as shooting him in the head in front of his mother.
I'm more outraged with the woman, Passan, Kimes, and ESPN than I am with Cohen for firing Porter.
It's a shame, but I understand the reasoning.
this isn't someone from Hollywood making an off-color joke and the media and elite having an over the top reaction.
this is not some old social media posts made during some youthful indiscretion that were questionable being used years later to impugn someone's character
this was a 35-year old man, who felt like the way to get the attention of a woman who was ignoring him was to send a picture of his (or someone's) erect genitals.
He is not being charged with a crime, but he's also not being allowed to stay in a role where it would reflect negatively on his employer.
People have recovered from such transgressions maybe he will to, but even if you don't have an issue with sending unsolicited dick picks (you're insane if you think that's ok), Porter is NOT the victim. This is not a Scarlet Letter scenario, that was consenting adults, this was unwanted and inappropriate.
Waaay too late for that.
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quit while you're behind
Waaay too late for that.
Seriously, I would have thought maybe a good night's sleep after last night's horror show of victim shaming and oversharing might have changed the mindset. But here we are, doubling down on a losing hand and blaming literally everybody but the scumbag who committed the act. Incredible.
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In comment 15127972 Kyle in NY said:
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quit while you're behind
Waaay too late for that.
Seriously, I would have thought maybe a good night's sleep after last night's horror show of victim shaming and oversharing might have changed the mindset. But here we are, doubling down on a losing hand and blaming literally everybody but the scumbag who committed the act. Incredible.
+1. He’s clueless.
Further, I'm not willing to take the story at 100% face value. It's a one-sided story, and even on that one side, as was earlier mentioned, her actions definitely contributed in part to what happened.
Imagine if she left facts out that Passan didn't report. I could definitely see Porter not adding to it in fear of making the situation worse. And that's the ugly side of this, the woman has 100% of the control over the outcome in these scenarios. I really hope none of you ever have to deal with a woman like this.
And no, this doesn't mean I condone sending unwanted dick pics. I think I've made that clear, it's foolish, childish, unprofessional, creepy, and gross. In case I have to make that more clear than I already have.
And because of that experience, you know all about all woman in situations like this? You know nothing about this person. She's 100% in control of the situation? She sure wasn't in control when Porter decided to send what he did after 62 unanswered messages. Acting like Porter had no control of this situation is laughable. He's 100% responsible for his actions and the potential consequences. It's a good thing you're anonymous on here because what you've said on this thread is shameful. But you don't care about what any of us think. Cool, have a nice life.
We can quibble all day about the woman's side, whether she led him on at all, if she was actually "victimized", etc etc, but none of that actually matters. The point is that a grown man shouldn't be sending pictures of his wedding tackle to a woman he barely knows when she has clearly displayed she isn't interested and didn't ask to see his dick. He's embarrassed the organization and raised serious questions about his judgment and professionalism.
Further, I'm not willing to take the story at 100% face value. It's a one-sided story, and even on that one side, as was earlier mentioned, her actions definitely contributed in part to what happened.
Imagine if she left facts out that Passan didn't report. I could definitely see Porter not adding to it in fear of making the situation worse. And that's the ugly side of this, the woman has 100% of the control over the outcome in these scenarios. I really hope none of you ever have to deal with a woman like this.
And no, this doesn't mean I condone sending unwanted dick pics. I think I've made that clear, it's foolish, childish, unprofessional, creepy, and gross. In case I have to make that more clear than I already have.
Porter has admitted it is true, and apologized for it.
No real parallel between your experience and "the power that a woman can hold over a man without taking personal responsibility of their own behavior".