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3. Leonard Williams, Edge/DT 2020 team: New York Giants | Age entering 2021 season: 27 The past year has been awfully good for Williams, who was traded to the Giants in 2019 and found a home in new coach Joe Judge's defense. His 11.5 sacks were a career high and more than he had amassed in the previous three seasons combined. And now Williams has enormous leverage over the Giants, who decided not to sign him to an extension before finalizing the trade. He spent 2020 as their franchised player. |
And they are really stupid because they didn’t sign him for cheap. Because we all know players always take less money.
Some of you are clueless.
Imagine the reaction from these same people if he signed for the 20 million a year his camp was reportedly looking for last year? They might have stormed the Giants facilities frothing at the mouth.
And they are really stupid because they didn’t sign him for cheap. Because we all know players always take less money.
Some of you are clueless.
Clueless. Sure. We've now gone from "Gettleman and Williams's agent must have had an understanding before the trade, otherwise Gettleman wouldn't have done it" to "well, Williams never wanted to sign a deal with the Giants."
Did I get that right? You are saying that Williams wouldn't sign any offer that Gettleman made? Unless it was his 2021 market rate?
I'm sorry but this is such a stupid response. The Williams trade was horrendous BECAUSE we traded for him without locking him up long term. What's the point of a losing team trading for a soon to be FA? If you franchise him and he's bad then you look dumb for giving up assets for a player that isn't part of the future of the team. If he's great then you're required to pay top dollar to sign him anyway (which you could have done WITHOUT giving up draft capital). As good as LW was this past season, that trade -- without a long term extension at the time it was made -- is still mind bogglingly foolish.
And they are really stupid because they didn’t sign him for cheap. Because we all know players always take less money.
Some of you are clueless.
Agreed. It's comical. The Giants have gone from idiots to even trading for this player and giving up a 3rd rounder, to idiots for not signing this player who wasn't worth giving up a 3rd round pick to a big extension.
Who was the last big time WR FA to land with a different team and make a huge difference?
I'm serious about that question.
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The giants are so stupid for trading for a player and unearthing his potential.
And they are really stupid because they didn’t sign him for cheap. Because we all know players always take less money.
Some of you are clueless.
Clueless. Sure. We've now gone from "Gettleman and Williams's agent must have had an understanding before the trade, otherwise Gettleman wouldn't have done it" to "well, Williams never wanted to sign a deal with the Giants."
Did I get that right? You are saying that Williams wouldn't sign any offer that Gettleman made? Unless it was his 2021 market rate?
Find another pile to extract that pound of flesh. I'm sure you can.
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that the Giants sign one of Golladay, Robinson, or Godwin. This team is in desperate need of playmakers, not only to win games, but so we can accurately evaluate whether DJ is the future at QB before we need to make a decision on his future with the organization and 5th year option.
Who was the last big time WR FA to land with a different team and make a huge difference?
I'm serious about that question.
Antonio Brown in Tampa? Maybe not huge but he's helped them. Diggs in Buffalo? He was a trade but is there any difference?
Are you implying that a FA WR can't help a new team? Plaxico Burress? Terrel Owens in Philly? Alshon Jeffrey in Philly ?
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that the Giants sign one of Golladay, Robinson, or Godwin. This team is in desperate need of playmakers, not only to win games, but so we can accurately evaluate whether DJ is the future at QB before we need to make a decision on his future with the organization and 5th year option.
Who was the last big time WR FA to land with a different team and make a huge difference?
I'm serious about that question.
Don't know about the last one in the league, but Plaxico Burress was a pretty major signing for us (before he shot himself, that is). Don't know if we win in '07 without him.
Also, believe Alshon Jeffery helped the eggles get over the top a few yrs ago. I'm sure there are probably others.
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you guys realize that's how these things go, right?
Imagine the reaction from these same people if he signed for the 20 million a year his camp was reportedly looking for last year? They might have stormed the Giants facilities frothing at the mouth.
I really don't understand it. I don't know what happened when we traded for him - maybe there was a deal on the table and he balked at the last minute, maybe there wasn't. But they definitely negotiated for a while afterward and were apparently far apart. That's business.
Yeah laugh at clowns like you
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The giants are so stupid for trading for a player and unearthing his potential.
And they are really stupid because they didn’t sign him for cheap. Because we all know players always take less money.
Some of you are clueless.
Agreed. It's comical. The Giants have gone from idiots to even trading for this player and giving up a 3rd rounder, to idiots for not signing this player who wasn't worth giving up a 3rd round pick to a big extension.
You're utterly clueless
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In comment 15127706 Josh in the City said:
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that the Giants sign one of Golladay, Robinson, or Godwin. This team is in desperate need of playmakers, not only to win games, but so we can accurately evaluate whether DJ is the future at QB before we need to make a decision on his future with the organization and 5th year option.
Who was the last big time WR FA to land with a different team and make a huge difference?
I'm serious about that question.
Antonio Brown in Tampa? Maybe not huge but he's helped them. Diggs in Buffalo? He was a trade but is there any difference?
Are you implying that a FA WR can't help a new team? Plaxico Burress? Terrel Owens in Philly? Alshon Jeffrey in Philly ?
WHat I'm implying is that WR #1 just don't make it to the open market anymore.
-Burress signed with the Giants in 05
-Owens was last signed as a FA by Dallas in 06 (well aside from some BS 1 yr deals with places like Buffalo and Cincy)
- Brown was a nice add to TB - but he's not a #1
FA WR can certainly help a team win (Brown was a great signing - so was Beasley in BUffalo)...But if you looking to get a #1 WR - FA just isn't going to get it done. You gotta draft or trade to get one.
If the argument is that the team can't assess DJ unless we sign a #1 WR in FA - I'm saying that isn't going to happen b/c they don't often hit the open market.
I would be shocked if one of Galloday, Robinson or Godwin would shake free.
As for Williams' looming contract, they wanted to prevent him from getting free agency where a bidding war could have realistically happened which would make a reasonable contract hard to achieve. I think the Giants are betting on the character of Williams. What I mean by this is, they are hoping he will be attracted to stay with an organization that he feels values him as a player and a person, and an organization committed to winning. With the success the Giants defense had this year even undermanned it may be an attractive situation for Williams, which may influence him to give the Giants that reasonable contract (reasonable to actual football people, not fans). Betting on players is what teams do, it is part of the roster building process.
To wrap up this. I think a certain portion of fans feel that Dave Gettleman is just an idiot who isn't likely to make good decisions. I personally think that is more than a bit foolish.
Btw, Judge has input on roster moves more than likely. He should not be left out of the equation whether a roster move looks to be bad or good.
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In comment 15127695 djm said:
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The giants are so stupid for trading for a player and unearthing his potential.
And they are really stupid because they didn’t sign him for cheap. Because we all know players always take less money.
Some of you are clueless.
Agreed. It's comical. The Giants have gone from idiots to even trading for this player and giving up a 3rd rounder, to idiots for not signing this player who wasn't worth giving up a 3rd round pick to a big extension.
You're utterly clueless
Please explain to me why I am clueless.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
This is hardly the time to shit on the Giants. We have plenty of those. This isn't one of them.
It was a dice roll, but a 3rd round pick isn't a huge investment for a dice roll. The way some of you continue to harp on this one would think that the investment was much greater.
He will get his contract or he will be tagged.
It was a dice roll, but a 3rd round pick isn't a huge investment for a dice roll. The way some of you continue to harp on this one would think that the investment was much greater.
He will get his contract or he will be tagged.
Exactly. Although some who ragged the trade have inevitably moved on to ragging the Giants not signing him to a long term deal.
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Given up (3rd round supp) for Sam Beal was 1000% worse. That one hurt.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
AJ Brown and DK Metcalf went in Round 2 of 2019, for instance. Not sure what slot we gave up, but Metcalf was the last pick of the round. Dionte Johnson and Terry McLaurin were picked in Round 2.
The Giants were not the only team looking to pick up LW, I believe the Cowboys were one of the other suitors and that was when DG added the 5th rounder this year.
The guy made himself a few million more with his play this year.
Side note, if Tomlinson is not even ranked, that is good for the Giants if they want to re-sign him. Maybe he drops to the $5-6 mill per instead of $10-$12 range. Or maybe it means that it is time to look for a better NT?
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Given up (3rd round supp) for Sam Beal was 1000% worse. That one hurt.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
Anyone with a pulse would be better.
Is that where we are now, if you can’t somehow name the player the Giants would have picked, you can’t criticize? Fucking ridiculous.
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In comment 15127767 Carl in CT said:
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Given up (3rd round supp) for Sam Beal was 1000% worse. That one hurt.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
AJ Brown and DK Metcalf went in Round 2 of 2019, for instance. Not sure what slot we gave up, but Metcalf was the last pick of the round. Dionte Johnson and Terry McLaurin were picked in Round 2.
Sorry- typo - Johnson and McLaurin were picked in Round "3"
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In comment 15127767 Carl in CT said:
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Given up (3rd round supp) for Sam Beal was 1000% worse. That one hurt.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
AJ Brown and DK Metcalf went in Round 2 of 2019, for instance. Not sure what slot we gave up, but Metcalf was the last pick of the round. Dionte Johnson and Terry McLaurin were picked in Round 2.
Giants gave up their 3rd for Beal. How do you get players who were drafted in the 2nd round with a 3rd round pick?
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In comment 15127767 Carl in CT said:
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Given up (3rd round supp) for Sam Beal was 1000% worse. That one hurt.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
AJ Brown and DK Metcalf went in Round 2 of 2019, for instance. Not sure what slot we gave up, but Metcalf was the last pick of the round. Dionte Johnson and Terry McLaurin were picked in Round 2.
Ok, the point is, that post was already assuming the player we gave up for Beal was going to be a significant success.
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In comment 15127767 Carl in CT said:
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Given up (3rd round supp) for Sam Beal was 1000% worse. That one hurt.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
Anyone with a pulse would be better.
Is that where we are now, if you can’t somehow name the player the Giants would have picked, you can’t criticize? Fucking ridiculous.
Significantly better would be the goal. The logic assuming the missed player was going to be significantly better is an unknown.
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In comment 15127774 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15127767 Carl in CT said:
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Given up (3rd round supp) for Sam Beal was 1000% worse. That one hurt.
What player would the Giants have taken with that pick?
AJ Brown and DK Metcalf went in Round 2 of 2019, for instance. Not sure what slot we gave up, but Metcalf was the last pick of the round. Dionte Johnson and Terry McLaurin were picked in Round 2.
Giants gave up their 3rd for Beal. How do you get players who were drafted in the 2nd round with a 3rd round pick?
I guess I looked and saw we had no 2nd round selection that year and picked Ximines in the 3rd. Can't recall how that shook out but just then consider Johnson and McLaurin in the 3rd.
You would be letting Tomlinson and Williams go?
Leverage was given up, they missed out on just bidding for him back in Spring of 2020, and now it has reached on another level with his career year.
They misread the situation and created the very thing they gave up drafts picks to avoid.
Significantly better would be the goal. The logic assuming the missed player was going to be significantly better is an unknown.
It wasn't just that DG used a supplemental, it's that he used a supplemental on an oft-injured player. You guys crack me up - DG should be praised for getting things right, but you can't criticize him when things go wrong, because, and I quote, "assuming the missed player was going to be significantly better is an unknown."
I repeat, fucking ridiculous.
Bottom line: we're here now - and on the Giants, LW is/had been an elite player...pay him his money.
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Significantly better would be the goal. The logic assuming the missed player was going to be significantly better is an unknown.
It wasn't just that DG used a supplemental, it's that he used a supplemental on an oft-injured player. You guys crack me up - DG should be praised for getting things right, but you can't criticize him when things go wrong, because, and I quote, "assuming the missed player was going to be significantly better is an unknown."
I repeat, fucking ridiculous.
You're missing the point. Criticize it, it looks like a miss. I am criticizing the logic assuming the player selected in Beal's place was going to be better. The poster said the Beal miss hurt, well we don't know who the player was to be selected in his place to prove Beal Hurt the team.
What is unreasonable about my stance?
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of the Williams trade at the time, but if you're still ragging on that trade I think you either have an axe to grind or you are unable to admit when you're wrong.
It was a dice roll, but a 3rd round pick isn't a huge investment for a dice roll. The way some of you continue to harp on this one would think that the investment was much greater.
He will get his contract or he will be tagged.
Exactly. Although some who ragged the trade have inevitably moved on to ragging the Giants not signing him to a long term deal.
The DG haters are really good at moving the goalposts regarding DG
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In comment 15127719 Dnew15 said:
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In comment 15127706 Josh in the City said:
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that the Giants sign one of Golladay, Robinson, or Godwin. This team is in desperate need of playmakers, not only to win games, but so we can accurately evaluate whether DJ is the future at QB before we need to make a decision on his future with the organization and 5th year option.
Who was the last big time WR FA to land with a different team and make a huge difference?
I'm serious about that question.
Antonio Brown in Tampa? Maybe not huge but he's helped them. Diggs in Buffalo? He was a trade but is there any difference?
Are you implying that a FA WR can't help a new team? Plaxico Burress? Terrel Owens in Philly? Alshon Jeffrey in Philly ?
WHat I'm implying is that WR #1 just don't make it to the open market anymore.
-Burress signed with the Giants in 05
-Owens was last signed as a FA by Dallas in 06 (well aside from some BS 1 yr deals with places like Buffalo and Cincy)
- Brown was a nice add to TB - but he's not a #1
FA WR can certainly help a team win (Brown was a great signing - so was Beasley in BUffalo)...But if you looking to get a #1 WR - FA just isn't going to get it done. You gotta draft or trade to get one.
If the argument is that the team can't assess DJ unless we sign a #1 WR in FA - I'm saying that isn't going to happen b/c they don't often hit the open market.
I would be shocked if one of Galloday, Robinson or Godwin would shake free.
In the post where you are saying thet #1 WR don't make it to the open market and name that Robinson is one of them.. you neglect that he was a FA himself just 3 years ago.. by then he was already a #1 WR..
Not sure I agree with your first sentence - but it's not the worst of ideas - but I think you nailed it with the second sentence. This team needs to figure out who DJ is.
While I understand the excellent year DW had, it's a helluva more critical to buy support for DJ than to keep Williams. Williams is replaceable. And that's largely because I trust Graham's scheme and ability to move pieces around the defensive chess board.
Leverage was given up, they missed out on just bidding for him back in Spring of 2020, and now it has reached on another level with his career year.
They misread the situation and created the very thing they gave up drafts picks to avoid.
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And now Williams has enormous leverage over the Giants, who decided not to sign him to an extension before finalizing the trade.
+1 people that don't understand this are naive.. No one in the NFL was wiling to give up much for him.. Giants outbid everyone to get him.. meaning no one else thought LW was worth much add to it that he ended that season with 1/2 a sack.. no one in the world would've paid him 16M for 2020 if the Giants hadn't traded for him.. and the Giants only did that to save face.. he rewarded them with the best year of his life by a huge mile.. and now we will give him 5 yr $100M..
He had one good year 2015 ...
Let's not pretend he was a bonda fide super star #1 receiver when Jacksonville let him go.