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Thegratefulhead : 1/19/2021 10:42 am
Championship games, same as it ever was. As much as things change, they stay the same. Elite QB play still looks extremely important to advance to the Super Bowl.
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Most teams on both sides of the ball have a positional player that the  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/19/2021 4:47 pm : link
absolutely can't afford to miss extended time because of being absolute difference makers with little behind them.

If some fans can't realize that some of us are more optimistic because the offense was brutal when it has a good run blocking line, poor pass blocking line, an 11th man in the run game, and shitty inconsistent pass catchers and the key piece of that puzzle went down. Even with those factors, I'm confident this would have at least looked like a competent offense.

Desean Watson is a very good QB and he still put up stats. This is because they have a very deep pool of pass catchers and one of the better pass blocking lines in the league. Everything else sucked though and hence the record.
Thunderstruck  
Go Terps : 1/19/2021 4:47 pm : link
Who made the decision to build the offense around Barkley?

Something else to consider: Barkley's been a Giant for 3 years. The offense sucked all 3 seasons.
RE: LoL..  
bw in dc : 1/19/2021 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15128167 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
"this time of year" basically means every fucking day for some of you negative schmucks.


RE: Thunderstruck  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/19/2021 5:05 pm : link
In comment 15128210 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Who made the decision to build the offense around Barkley?

Something else to consider: Barkley's been a Giant for 3 years. The offense sucked all 3 seasons.


You're not wrong. It's on DG. This is 100% the year he is going to have to put up or shut up. There is no excuse not to build around the QB. Honestly, if Barkley was so good, we shouldn't have had to build an offense around a RB.
2021 will be the year we move on from DG and possibly Jones and Barkley if there isn't a marked improvement.
RE: RE: Thunderstruck  
Go Terps : 1/19/2021 5:10 pm : link
In comment 15128231 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 15128210 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Who made the decision to build the offense around Barkley?

Something else to consider: Barkley's been a Giant for 3 years. The offense sucked all 3 seasons.



You're not wrong. It's on DG. This is 100% the year he is going to have to put up or shut up. There is no excuse not to build around the QB. Honestly, if Barkley was so good, we shouldn't have had to build an offense around a RB.
2021 will be the year we move on from DG and possibly Jones and Barkley if there isn't a marked improvement.


Why wait that long? Why throw away another season?
I couldn't tell you why...  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/19/2021 5:57 pm : link
Honestly, it starts with Mara. If you blame this all on DG I think you are forgetting where it all starts. We were really bad long before DG got here.
RE: I couldn't tell you why...  
Go Terps : 1/19/2021 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15128293 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Honestly, it starts with Mara. If you blame this all on DG I think you are forgetting where it all starts. We were really bad long before DG got here.


I agree a trillion percent. I think we have a major ownership problem.
RE: I couldn't tell you why...  
Saquads26 : 1/19/2021 6:41 pm : link
In comment 15128293 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Honestly, it starts with Mara. If you blame this all on DG I think you are forgetting where it all starts. We were really bad long before DG got here.


I've been saying this for months and it's always overlooked. The game passed Mara by a long time ago. Unfortunately he will never sell.
I’m not ready to go there with Mara..  
Sean : 1/19/2021 6:44 pm : link
You can say he’s too loyal, but I don’t think he’s an awful owner. He’s made some poor decisions, but I’m not so sure I’d take any owner over him in the division.

Lurie is dealing with a mountain of issues right now and based on reports he is heavily involved in day to day football operations. He seems to meddle quite a bit. I don’t think the 2005-2012 stretch can be dismissed when analyzing John Mara as an owner.
RE: I’m not ready to go there with Mara..  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/19/2021 6:53 pm : link
In comment 15128332 Sean said:
Quote:
You can say he’s too loyal, but I don’t think he’s an awful owner. He’s made some poor decisions, but I’m not so sure I’d take any owner over him in the division.

Lurie is dealing with a mountain of issues right now and based on reports he is heavily involved in day to day football operations. He seems to meddle quite a bit. I don’t think the 2005-2012 stretch can be dismissed when analyzing John Mara as an owner.


Loyal to who? You do know what title Chris Mara holds. Would that turd have a job if it wasn't for daddy? Personnel has been the #1 problem on this team since the last few years of Reese's tenure.
RE: I’m not ready to go there with Mara..  
Go Terps : 1/19/2021 7:12 pm : link
In comment 15128332 Sean said:
Quote:
You can say he’s too loyal, but I don’t think he’s an awful owner. He’s made some poor decisions, but I’m not so sure I’d take any owner over him in the division.

Lurie is dealing with a mountain of issues right now and based on reports he is heavily involved in day to day football operations. He seems to meddle quite a bit. I don’t think the 2005-2012 stretch can be dismissed when analyzing John Mara as an owner.


I wonder if that era benefited from the previous structure. It was Wellington that hired Coughlin, and Accorsi that drafted Eli. I consider the peak to be 2008...that was the best football that era had to offer. They got a title on the way up and another on the way down. Fantastic.

But when it broke down, John hasn't shown himself able to build it back up on his own.

Thunderstruck & Terps..  
Sean : 1/19/2021 7:17 pm : link
Both of your arguments are valid. I’m talking as a fan and probably being overly hopeful. But, I think hiring the right coach is a big factor in turning it around. I hope Judge’s influence spreads through the building.

Lombardi made a good point about the NFC East earlier this year. It used to be about the coaches: Parcells, Landry & Gibbs. Now it is about the owners. All of the owners in this division have been poor.
RE: I’m not ready to go there with Mara..  
bw in dc : 1/19/2021 7:17 pm : link
In comment 15128332 Sean said:
Quote:
You can say he’s too loyal, but I don’t think he’s an awful owner. He’s made some poor decisions, but I’m not so sure I’d take any owner over him in the division.

Lurie is dealing with a mountain of issues right now and based on reports he is heavily involved in day to day football operations. He seems to meddle quite a bit. I don’t think the 2005-2012 stretch can be dismissed when analyzing John Mara as an owner.


Have you been to MetLife, btw? I think it is one of - if not the - worst new facilities in the NFL.

So for the last decade Mara has been hiring (or keeping) the wrong people to build bad teams for the fans to watch in bland new stadium.

And he continues to ask the fan base to "trust" him.

So why should we, again?



...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/19/2021 7:20 pm : link
I'm not the biggest John fan in the world, nor was I enamored with his old man. The 'meaningful December football games' manta is so F'ing weak. The Maras come across as good, decent people, but their football/decision acumen is up for debate. And I think John, like Wellington, is loyal to a fault, which I get to a point-I too was sentimental about Eli-but it can hamstrung an organization if it goes to the extreme.

Regardless, playoffs or bust in 2021. Jones has to take a big, big step forward. If not, time to go shopping for another QB. I have faith in Judge as a HC & Gettleman did have an impressive offseason last year, but it's time for results.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/19/2021 7:22 pm : link
The thing that worries me re. NFC East owners is Stephen Jones. He seems to know what he's doing & I'm assuming he's Jerry's heir.
bw..  
Sean : 1/19/2021 7:25 pm : link
Yes, I’ve been to MetLife. I actually am the wrong guy to ask about that because I don’t mind it. I wish the blue lighting was more prominent on the outside, but the facility itself is fine. It could definitely use more bells and whistles. If it were up to me, they should have just renovated Giants Stadium. I miss that place.

I don’t view Mara as a meddling owner. I think he meddled at the end of Eli, but I’m not going to pound him for that. Do I trust him? Idk - it will come down to how well Judge can coach and what his influence is. That’s the hope in this getting turned around.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/19/2021 7:28 pm : link
I went to Metlife in December 2018 for Giants Bears. It's an eyesore. And I too miss Giants Stadium.
RE: ...  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/19/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15128376 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The thing that worries me re. NFC East owners is Stephen Jones. He seems to know what he's doing & I'm assuming he's Jerry's heir.


Stephen Jones is essentially the one in control of football operations now. Seems to know what he's doing, but let's see how he does when he doesn't have a 4th round QB giving him above average QB play. The defense was abysmal this year and they are tops in the league of highest paid players. The difference between them and the Rams though is the guys they paid suck and part of that is their devaluation of "character" guys. He certainly knows what he's doing, but its also possible he's merely competent and since he's part of ownership he doesn't relinquish power.
Scary thought  
Go Terps : 1/19/2021 7:55 pm : link
If Judge didn't ace the interview, or if he took the Mississippi State job, who's the head coach?

Almost certainly Jason Garrett, right?
RE: Scary thought  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/19/2021 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15128397 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If Judge didn't ace the interview, or if he took the Mississippi State job, who's the head coach?

Almost certainly Jason Garrett, right?


I heard a podcast the other night that the Ravens DC-Martindale?-wowed the Giants too so perhaps him?
RE: Scary thought  
Sean : 1/19/2021 8:06 pm : link
In comment 15128397 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If Judge didn't ace the interview, or if he took the Mississippi State job, who's the head coach?

Almost certainly Jason Garrett, right?


Martindale. From multiple sources he was the guy - Schrager & Lombardi both stated that.
RE: RE: Scary thought  
Go Terps : 1/19/2021 8:07 pm : link
In comment 15128404 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15128397 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If Judge didn't ace the interview, or if he took the Mississippi State job, who's the head coach?

Almost certainly Jason Garrett, right?



Martindale. From multiple sources he was the guy - Schrager & Lombardi both stated that.


I hadn't heard that. That's a relief, at least.
Sean.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/19/2021 8:09 pm : link
Good call. I think that was Simmons with Scharger? My ears perked up.
RE: Sean.  
Sean : 1/19/2021 8:13 pm : link
In comment 15128406 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Good call. I think that was Simmons with Scharger? My ears perked up.


Yup, that was the podcast. Martindale apparently blew the Giants away in his interview, but Judge more so.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones is a 62% passer..  
GiantsFan84 : 1/19/2021 8:15 pm : link
In comment 15128115 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15128108 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15128084 Go Terps said:


Quote:



No. I'm pinning it on the talent evaluation and coaching.

I'm not pinning it on Jones. He isn't very good, but he isn't getting help either.



Really? Your giving Jones a pass on not throwing receivers open/missing reads? I think it's hard to smooth out separation stats to get an even baseline.

There is scheme, quality of corners, etc...



I'm not giving him a pass. I'm saying there are multiple levels of suck to the Giants offense:

Coaching (Garrett)
Execution (Jones)
Talent acquisition and evaluation (Gettleman)

The suck runs so deep it's hard to tell where one level ends and the other begins.

But hey, let's run it all back!


this x 1000
RE: Thunderstruck & Terps..  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/19/2021 9:02 pm : link
In comment 15128368 Sean said:
Quote:
Both of your arguments are valid. I’m talking as a fan and probably being overly hopeful. But, I think hiring the right coach is a big factor in turning it around. I hope Judge’s influence spreads through the building.

Lombardi made a good point about the NFC East earlier this year. It used to be about the coaches: Parcells, Landry & Gibbs. Now it is about the owners. All of the owners in this division have been poor.


Interesting point about how the balance of power leaning toward the owners. Decisions like how long to hold on to Eli for the Giants and Snyder apparently forcing the Haskins pick in the draft show signs of the dumb things we used to make fun of the Cowboys for after Jerry fired Jimmy Johnson.
I'm with you on the holding out hope for Judge. The guy seems to make good fundamental football decisions. Hard to argue with a lot of his choices. Time will tell.
It’s hilarious  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/19/2021 9:29 pm : link
How Daniel Jones is the convo. Brady (probable GOAT), Rodgers (Insane level passer, 3 MVPs to Brees’ 0), Mahomes (future GOAT candidate trajectory), Allen (baaad man, carrying the Franchise on his back and possibly could be the new Elway in some eyes).

Those are the dudes who are contending for a Super Bowl. Can Daniel Jones be one of them? Very likely NOT unless the rest of the team improves greatly.

Daniel Jones is a predicament. Is it coaching? Is it the GM/FO? He regressed hard in his 2nd year which is where the Josh Allen comps fall apart. Can he be THAT guy as oppposed to a Kirk Cousins level “guy”? I’m leaning heavily towards no at this point. I hope he puts it together but if we give him year 3 and he’s another Trubisky, this team is looking for someone else. Jones, from Duke, was supposed to be a smart QB. The fact that he has struggled with QB IQ makes me lean towards looking for a better option if the Giants can land someone who qualifies. Especially since he’s not great in terms of physical talent/potential (like a Josh Allen).
Terps  
Tuckrule : 1/20/2021 6:47 am : link
Take a look at jones last seaso and jones this year. Purely throwing the football. Totally different schemes and jones has looked great in Shurmur and solid in garrets. Garrets offense stinks. He needs an elite tight end, which we don’t have. He needs a feature back, who was hurt. He needs big bodied WRs to move the chains, which we don’t have.

Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.
RE: Terps  
Producer : 1/20/2021 7:08 am : link
In comment 15128626 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Take a look at jones last seaso and jones this year. Purely throwing the football. Totally different schemes and jones has looked great in Shurmur and solid in garrets. Garrets offense stinks. He needs an elite tight end, which we don’t have. He needs a feature back, who was hurt. He needs big bodied WRs to move the chains, which we don’t have.

Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.


Jones failed both the eye test and statistically in 2020. He did nothing this season to show "he's the goods".
Producer  
Tuckrule : 1/20/2021 8:59 am : link
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
I know..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2021 9:10 am : link
the crowd bashing Jones likes to call these excuses, but even this point right here was fairly damning:

Quote:
Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.


More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.

Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.
RE: I know..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2021 9:16 am : link
In comment 15128688 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the crowd bashing Jones likes to call these excuses, but even this point right here was fairly damning:



Quote:


Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.



More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.

Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.


Imv? The majority of us know this. Mitigating circumstances have always been part and parcel of true objectivity, I believe
RE: Producer  
Saquads26 : 1/20/2021 9:20 am : link
In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.


I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.
56  
Tuckrule : 1/20/2021 9:32 am : link
Your right. The educated posters on this site, Some have commented directly above this, know the game and understand what they see. Others, who obsess over fantasy football, focus on touchdowns numbers ints just disregard the total lack of talent that jones has. What we are saying, 56, fmic, saquads should be obvious to all but it isn’t.
RE: 56  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2021 9:39 am : link
In comment 15128715 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Your right. The educated posters on this site, Some have commented directly above this, know the game and understand what they see. Others, who obsess over fantasy football, focus on touchdowns numbers ints just disregard the total lack of talent that jones has. What we are saying, 56, fmic, saquads should be obvious to all but it isn’t.


Let’s hope we’re right, buddy..:)
RE: Terps  
Go Terps : 1/20/2021 10:22 am : link
In comment 15128626 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Take a look at jones last seaso and jones this year. Purely throwing the football. Totally different schemes and jones has looked great in Shurmur and solid in garrets. Garrets offense stinks. He needs an elite tight end, which we don’t have. He needs a feature back, who was hurt. He needs big bodied WRs to move the chains, which we don’t have.

Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.


This is one of those posts that makes me wonder if I'm living in the Matrix and there's a whole different world where Jones was not awful in 2020.
RE: I know..  
Greg from LI : 1/20/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15128688 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently


No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....
RE: Producer  
Producer : 1/20/2021 10:43 am : link
In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.


dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.

Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
RE: RE: Producer  
Producer : 1/20/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15128698 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.



I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.


I'd like to point out that you and FMiC routinely insult and curse people who are down on Jones. You should raise the level of your rhetoric. When you result to insults and random cursing it shows you have lost the argument.
RE: RE: Producer  
Saquads26 : 1/20/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15128837 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.



dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.

Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?


Triggered much? Take your morning meds
RE: RE: RE: Producer  
Saquads26 : 1/20/2021 10:48 am : link
In comment 15128839 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15128698 Saquads26 said:


Quote:


In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.



I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.



I'd like to point out that you and FMiC routinely insult and curse people who are down on Jones. You should raise the level of your rhetoric. When you result to insults and random cursing it shows you have lost the argument.


RE: RE: RE: Producer  
Producer : 1/20/2021 11:16 am : link
In comment 15128841 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
In comment 15128837 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.



dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.

Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?



Triggered much? Take your morning meds


I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.
Well, after reading these recent posts...  
bw in dc : 1/20/2021 11:21 am : link
I guess I need to go back and re-watch the entire season because apparently Jones had a terrific year in 2020.

RE: RE: I know..  
bw in dc : 1/20/2021 11:25 am : link
In comment 15128822 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15128688 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently



No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....


Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...

QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.

Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.

Hmmm.
RE: RE: RE: I know..  
LBH15 : 1/20/2021 11:32 am : link
In comment 15128878 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15128822 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 15128688 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently



No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....



Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...

QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.

Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.

Hmmm.


Well, when you only throw 11 TDs adding one more to that small of a total in error is actually fairly material.
RE: RE: RE: I know..  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/20/2021 11:37 am : link
In comment 15128878 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15128822 Greg from LI said:






Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...

QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.

Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.

Hmmm.


21st QBR isn't that bad when you consider that the offense couldn't create opportunities for passing TDs and he's a second year QB.

Josh Allen was 24th last year going by this metric. And this is why these metrics aren't the be all and ell. They are still situationally dependant.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Producer  
Saquads26 : 1/20/2021 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15128865 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15128841 Saquads26 said:


Quote:


In comment 15128837 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.



dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.

Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?



Triggered much? Take your morning meds



I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.


Best day I've had in 4 years!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Producer  
Producer : 1/20/2021 3:01 pm : link
In comment 15128961 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
In comment 15128865 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15128841 Saquads26 said:


Quote:


In comment 15128837 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.

Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.



dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.

Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?



Triggered much? Take your morning meds



I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.



Best day I've had in 4 years!


we agree on something ;) go Giants!

RE: Well, after reading these recent posts...  
lax counsel : 1/21/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15128872 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I guess I need to go back and re-watch the entire season because apparently Jones had a terrific year in 2020.


Yes, its mind boggling. The rationalization gone through to spin Jones as actually having had a good season in 2020 and not being one of the 2 or 3 worst starting qbs in the sport is something to behold. I particularly like the Josh Allen argument, which conveniently ignores the fact that Allen improved between year 1 and 2 in the league whereas Jones fell off a proverbial cliff in year 2.

Jones will get weapons in the offseason, even if it means the Giants overpay to their detriment. Because we know one thing, the Giants brass is completely reactionary to - and might I add, misreads - fan sentiment. Its what led to them holding on Eli a year too long. It's what led them to panic drafting (i.e., Eli is DONE!!) a qb in the top 10 when most had the a 2nd round or lower grade on the prospect. No doubt they have heard the grumblings that Jones doesn't have enough weapons. So we'll see if Jones has any skills resembling a top 10 qb next year with his new toys.

I also find it amazing that we declare Jones has a bottom 2 or 3 oline (in addition to no weapons), but do not fault the person responsible for drafting assembling that line, to which valuable resources have been dedicated over the past 3 years. It really harkens back to the rank and file defending the Giants decisions at any cost. It couldn't have been the wrong decision, otherwise the Giants wouldn't have made it!
RE: I know..  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/21/2021 11:35 pm : link
In comment 15128688 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the crowd bashing Jones likes to call these excuses, but even this point right here was fairly damning:



Quote:


Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.



More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.

Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.



So the receiving corps that your guy Gettleman had three years to assemble is awful, right ? Hence DJs lackluster production?
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